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Colts Defense Sliding


EastStreet
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When they just rush four and there's a guy wide open in the middle I always think - how wide is that zone?  Seven guys should take up a lot of space.

 

But we live in die with the T2 or T3 defense, especially in the first half of games.  It's what made Minshew look as good as Drew Brees.

 

The D is good, but not great.  We don't have WFT's D line, that's for sure.  But it's good enough as long as the offense can sustain drives like they've been doing.  (The best Defense is a good Offense?)

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33 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Jacksonville was the worst loss of the season, and it's looming right now.

Eh no not really.  The TN loss is the worst loss and the one that’s holding us back. 
 

Let’s say we won that Jacksonville game, there’s no guarantee we wouldn’t have loss some where else along the way. 
 

the thing is, even with that Jacksonville loss, we could have all but wrapped up the division if we’d beaten TN. And had the league postponed like they did several times with the Ravens, we’d been healthy and likely beaten them

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1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Eh no not really.  The TN loss is the worst loss and the one that’s holding us back. 
 

Let’s say we won that Jacksonville game, there’s no guarantee we wouldn’t have loss some where else along the way. 
 

the thing is, even with that Jacksonville loss, we could have all but wrapped up the division if we’d beaten TN. And had the league postponed like they did several times with the Ravens, we’d been healthy and likely beaten them

I agree, the division would be over had we swept Tennessee. We weren't healthy though and they took advantage.

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1 hour ago, csmopar said:

The dude is right ya know. Stats mean little if you’re not winning. I mean we had a top 3 rushing attack last year and missed the playoffs... again

W's and Ls are the "sausage". On a forum board a lot of folks talk about how the sausage is made, if the sausage is good, if the sausage is better than other sausage, and is the sausage good enough to be the best sausage. Some fans aren't interested in what goes into the sausage, are just proud of their sausage, and don't care if their sausage has what it takes to win the sausage award. And that's OK. Those folks however should realize however that some folks take their sausage more seriously.

39 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Why some people can't understand this is baffling. I would rather have a QB that throws for 3600 Yards, Only 25 TD's, and only 10 INT's if I go 12-4 over a QB that throws for 4600 Yards, 35 TD's, and 10 INT's but that team goes 9-7 and misses the playoffs. Wins are the most important thing, bottomline and that is fact. If we win that is all that matters, we lose that is bad even if the QB throws for 400 Yards. We dominated statistically at Jacksonville in week 1 but lost and there have been at least 10 people that say that was the worse loss of the season including @EastStreet . 

As with the above analogy, parts of the sausage were very good in Jax. The problem was, the sausage maker screwed up the recipe that week. He used too much sage when the recipe called for more kosher salt. It was a bad day for the sausage maker. 

35 minutes ago, Hoose said:

I think you can acknowledge that the team is winning while also recognizing that the D has struggled recently....especially in the first half. There are some problems; hopefully they get fixed soon. A big test will be Sunday. Let’s see how the D adjusts to a QB who ran around all day against it two weeks ago and would have beaten them except for a freak miscue. I expect a much better, more disciplined performance from the D this time.

Yup, yup, and yup.

34 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Jacksonville was the worst loss of the season, and it's looming right now.

More yups

25 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is my point, you made my point, thanks. We dominated statistically but lost so it is bad. I still think we make the playoffs regardless as long as we go 11-5. Miami isn't going 11-5.

We'll make it so long as the ingredients are fresh, and the sausage maker has the proper recipe.

24 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

When they just rush four and there's a guy wide open in the middle I always think - how wide is that zone?  Seven guys should take up a lot of space.

 

But we live in die with the T2 or T3 defense, especially in the first half of games.  It's what made Minshew look as good as Drew Brees.

 

The D is good, but not great.  We don't have WFT's D line, that's for sure.  But it's good enough as long as the offense can sustain drives like they've been doing.  (The best Defense is a good Offense?)

IMO, our DL is "capable" of more, but we're simply vanilla, and opposing teams don't have to worry about unexpected stunts or blitzes. They know we rarely blitz, so their front 5 can settle in vs our front 4. And if needed, they'll keep the RB or TE back. 

 

Yup, Minshew was Mahomes/Brees/etc. that game. And he's back under center by the looks of things. I expect more rush attempts the next match, and hopefully the D playing with less cushion.

20 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would blitz Leonard more but that is me. He is fast and the QB would feel the heat.

I'd blitz LBs and DBs more. Not a ton, just enough to be less predictable, and keep the opposing O guessing. We're easily one of the most conservative Ds in the league as far as blitzes and soft zone are concerned. Any accurate QB with a good OL or one that's mobile will move the ball effectively if we're playing soft, especially short.

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25 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Eh no not really.  The TN loss is the worst loss and the one that’s holding us back. 
 

Let’s say we won that Jacksonville game, there’s no guarantee we wouldn’t have loss some where else along the way. 
 

the thing is, even with that Jacksonville loss, we could have all but wrapped up the division if we’d beaten TN. And had the league postponed like they did several times with the Ravens, we’d been healthy and likely beaten them

Both were bad, but losing one game to a playoff TN team, when we are missing key guys, is not nearly as acceptable as losing to a horrible Jax team with Minshew, whose only win is that win.... They both hurt equally in terms of division/conf record, but one was much more avoidable.

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9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

All this talk about sausage is making me hungry, how about Bacon lmao .

 

9 hours ago, Four2itus said:

How about Colt cuts?

Hey.... don’t forget the vegans.... we want our  soysage and faken!!
 

C6BBE1ED-2DC1-4002-A80A-39E6BE1BF7D8.jpeg.c93ae06cf137616b534a856aa59c2721.jpeg 
 

(this thread is sliding) :facepalm:

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12 hours ago, chickenMan said:

To be fair the games where our defense has been sliding have been against the Packers, Titans, Deshaun Watson, and the Raiders, all very good offensive teams/person. We certainly need to do better, but we’re still a top 5 D

Doesn't work like that lol. 

We've been top 5 vs bad teams, and average to below average vs good.

The average is top 10ish for now, with two good Os yet to play.

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Jeez, I can recall not long ago where most of would be happy with an average or middle of the pack defense. 

Of course our defense is going to fluctuate in the ratings according to the teams we play.

Did anyone expect any different? If so maybe a reality check is in order. 

 

Even the vaulted Saints defense let Jalen Hurts look like Deshaun Watson last weekend. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Jeez, I can recall not long ago where most of would be happy with an average or middle of the pack defense. 

Of course our defense is going to fluctuate in the ratings according to the teams we play.

Did anyone expect any different? If so maybe a reality check is in order. 

 

Even the vaulted Saints defense let Jalen Hurts look like Deshaun Watson last weekend. 

Can't speak for others, but for me, I'm very, very happy with the improvement. 

 

All the the top 5 talk is a bit silly and doesn't match the eye test, but being top 10ish is a heck of a lot better than being bottom 10ish. 

 

Most of the folks that understand D, and have watched closely expected a slide to happen the second half of the season when we stopped playing bad teams.

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13 hours ago, chickenMan said:

To be fair the games where our defense has been sliding have been against the Packers, Titans, Deshaun Watson, and the Raiders, all very good offensive teams/person. We certainly need to do better, but we’re still a top 5 D


Those are the type of teams (and actual teams) that they have to beat in January though. No more cupcakes. 
 

The defense is good...but the offense will define their playoff run.

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13 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Can't speak for others, but for me, I'm very, very happy with the improvement. 

 

All the the top 5 talk is a bit silly and doesn't match the eye test, but being top 10ish is a heck of a lot better than being bottom 10ish. 

 

Most of the folks that understand D, and have watched closely expected a slide to happen the second half of the season when we stopped playing bad teams.


The slide wasn’t nearly as bad as it could (or probably should) have been. The defense has been polar opposites in the 1st and 2nd half in several recent games. 

 

In 4 out of the 7 recent games (CIN, TEN, GB and HOU)...they gave up a combined 89 points in the 1st half...but then somehow only gave up EIGHT in the 2nd half...basically 1/10 of the points given up in those games. And those offenses are/were pretty good...including CIN when Burrow was still healthy.

 

Credit to the defense...but that is beyond flukey...or at the very least...not a bankable strategy. So I just can’t imagine it will continue...at least against good opponents...so they need to be much better in the 1st half.

 

 

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3 hours ago, shasta519 said:


The slide wasn’t nearly as bad as it could (or probably should) have been. The defense has been polar opposites in the 1st and 2nd half in several recent games. 

 

In 4 out of the 7 recent games (CIN, TEN, GB and HOU)...they gave up a combined 89 points in the 1st half...but then somehow only gave up EIGHT in the 2nd half...basically 1/10 of the points given up in those games. And those offenses are/were pretty good...including CIN when Burrow was still healthy.

 

Credit to the defense...but that is beyond flukey...or at the very least...not a bankable strategy. So I just can’t imagine it will continue...at least against good opponents...so they need to be much better in the 1st half.

I think some of 2H D, not all, but some, was due to teams with the lead going conservative. 

 

But the slide was pretty bad in areas. Our pass D slipping 10ish spots is just not good. We're now 13th ish I think. Our points per game allowed fell outside of the top 10 too. 

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8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I think some of 2H D, not all, but some, was due to teams with the lead going conservative. 

 

But the slide was pretty bad in areas. Our pass D slipping 10ish spots is just not good. We're now 13th ish I think. Our points per game allowed fell outside of the top 10 too. 

It seems like in the 1st half of games we give up big plays and a lot of points, then in the 2nd half we look like the 2000 Ravens. Makes no sense. Statistically the 1st half of games is what is killing us. 

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11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It seems like in the 1st half of games we give up big plays and a lot of points, then in the 2nd half we look like the 2000 Ravens. Makes no sense. Statistically the 1st half of games is what is killing us. 

Teams that get up in the 1H, go conservative and ball control in the second, making 2H Ds look better than they are. 

Don't get me wrong, we did make some adjustments in a few of those games, but the play calling by the opponent on O was different in a lot of cases. I put most stock in D in the 1H, or if it's consistently close in the 2H. If we're down 7 or more, chances are teams go prevent-ish on D, and ball control on O.

 

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The Defense has been consistently one of the best in the league all year long. I may be wrong, but this is the first week we have not been on the leaderboard in Tot D ypg. Even in our win over the Raiders, I believe I seen they had 450 or close to it in yards. When you look at all the different stats across the board you find many different things out. 1. Our D is at or above 14th place in all phases of D. Which 14 is the magical number, being there 14 spots in the post season. But overall, Indy has been rated among the top all year long. Even now. Concern? Plenty. How about, the fact that we hadn't allowed more then 23 or 25 points in an entire game against our D until Green Bay, when they scored 28 in the first half. But I say this. How many did they end with? I believe 31, maybe I'm wrong, but not much afterwards. That game opened up a door for all other team's to see a weakness in our D that again, has been top of the charts all year long. Then we move to the next week, Titans. After allowing the most points all season until that point, the titans made it look easy, again in the first half alone we allowed 28+ points. More then any full game up until the week before. Look at the Titans game. Points put up in the first half, yea, too many. But up until that point we hadn't allowed a rusher to break 100 yards or close too it all season long. We allowed Henry close to 170 yards in the first 2 quarters. I looked at my Dad and said as the half wound down, bet he won't get very many the second half. And he didn't. But we allowed them to add on some more points up to 40ish I believe. And also in one of those weeks we hadn't allowed a offense to get a 40+ yard play off either and we did just that right out the gate in one of those two. Those two games both painted a great picture on how to beat their D. I'm sure team's after those two games pay close attention to those two in particular. When you add those two games to the overall picture when it comes to the stats it makes them go up, I. These two.... Wayyy up. What bothered me the most was that those two games were the ones that mattered most. Nahhhh. The Ravens game made a statement. Then we allowed that statement to disappear in the wind as if it didn't even exist. Against GB, that was to be expected based on their position and team as well. Granted the next statement I'm going to make maybe biased but think about it. The Titans game was the most particularly important, even now. They have a good team. But, who would say with certainty the best in the AFC South? Granted, no matter how much our stats took a hit, good or bad, Indy's Defense is still top rated in the league. Add to it the 400+ yards the Raiders added to our stats they increased more than they actually matter. Put this into perspective. In the 4th quarter alone, the Colts Defense play their best football. Statistically 2nd half as a whole and as a team overall. Concerns? Only one, which character bandaid do Pittsburgh want when they bust their knee open on the Colts D Fence? And Kansas City want when they get the huge gash in their forehead when the D puts a new spin on Maholmes stellar season? This isn't until they get to play us in the postseason. Point blank. The Colts D is more consistent and balanced then any other D, and as I've been saying to my Dad for year's and years, Defenses win Championships. Specifically ones that score points or get turnovers that lead to points in almost all games they have played... 

Edited by Jdroach88
Forgot to elaborate on the KC comment.
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On 12/15/2020 at 9:04 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is my point, you made my point, thanks. We dominated statistically but lost so it is bad. I still think we make the playoffs regardless as long as we go 11-5. Miami isn't going 11-5.

That's what I've been saying, that loss to Jacksonville is the reason we have to fight so hard to get into the post season in a year we should be the division champs.

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

paragraphs are your friend. 

do you hate paragraphs?

 

just funning, but zero spacing on a long post is hard on the eyes.

Ha! When it's a bunch of thoughts that speak to the thought as a whole... 

Hard on the eyes, but easy on the brain.

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On 12/15/2020 at 9:32 AM, csmopar said:

Eh no not really.  The TN loss is the worst loss and the one that’s holding us back. 
 

Let’s say we won that Jacksonville game, there’s no guarantee we wouldn’t have loss some where else along the way. 
 

the thing is, even with that Jacksonville loss, we could have all but wrapped up the division if we’d beaten TN. And had the league postponed like they did several times with the Ravens, we’d been healthy and likely beaten them

You could say the samething about the Titans game.  Had they won that one maybe they had lost another game.  Fact of the matter is that had they won the Titans or Jags game they would be in first place right now.  The difference is the Titans game was a toss up but the Colts should have most definitely won the Jags game.

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4 hours ago, shasta519 said:


Those are the type of teams (and actual teams) that they have to beat in January though. No more cupcakes. 
 

The defense is good...but the offense will define their playoff run.

Actually the offense has been doing very well in recent weeks.  The first half defense putting them in holes has been what’s hurting them.  

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On 12/15/2020 at 6:54 AM, Hoose said:

I think you can acknowledge that the team is winning while also recognizing that the D has struggled recently....especially in the first half. There are some problems; hopefully they get fixed soon. A big test will be Sunday. Let’s see how the D adjusts to a QB who ran around all day against it two weeks ago and would have beaten them except for a freak miscue. I expect a much better, more disciplined performance from the D this time.

People keep saying “we only won because of a fumble” - if Watson doesn’t fumble and then scores a TD, now we’re down 1 point with a minute left to just get into FG range.  Texans scoring wasn’t an automatic loss

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On 12/15/2020 at 5:54 AM, Hoose said:

I think you can acknowledge that the team is winning while also recognizing that the D has struggled recently....especially in the first half. There are some problems; hopefully they get fixed soon. A big test will be Sunday. Let’s see how the D adjusts to a QB who ran around all day against it two weeks ago and would have beaten them except for a freak miscue. I expect a much better, more disciplined performance from the D this time.

 

To me, this is the kind of game that can identify a pretty good coaching staff, or expose them as being not all that good. What kind of adjustments and counter-adjustments have you prepared for this rematch? How the defense plays this week will be eye-opening in a lot of ways.

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17 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

To me, this is the kind of game that can identify a pretty good coaching staff, or expose them as being not all that good. What kind of adjustments and counter-adjustments have you prepared for this rematch? How the defense plays this week will be eye-opening in a lot of ways.

 

I am expecting us to complete the sacks we couldn't the last time we played Watson and get a few more INTs or fumble recoveries we could not last time. 

 

Colts 31 Texans 17

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4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I am expecting us to complete the sacks we couldn't the last time we played Watson and get a few more INTs or fumble recoveries we could not last time. 

 

Colts 31 Texans 17

 

Completing more of those sacks would be great. I think we had five, and probably missed on another ten. 

 

Just as important is what we do on the back end when Watson does escape pressure. A lot of their big plays came on blown coverages after he got out of the pocket. Also need to be a little more disciplined to keep him from getting out and running, which might mean sacrificing some pressure.

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Completing more of those sacks would be great. I think we had five, and probably missed on another ten. 

 

Just as important is what we do on the back end when Watson does escape pressure. A lot of their big plays came on blown coverages after he got out of the pocket. Also need to be a little more disciplined to keep him from getting out and running, which might mean sacrificing some pressure.

 

Watson took safeties in both the Colts home game and Bears road game in the end zone, tells you all you need to know. That dude does not take the "throwing it away" route easily whatsoever. He wants to keep the play alive as long as it takes. It can be exhausting for DL and DBs, which is why it is important for our offense to control tempo and have long drives to keep the DL and DBs fresh for their shots at Watson. It is almost like high intensity defense for short intervals of time that is not sustainable if you have to do it in a series every 3 or 4 minutes. 

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3 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Watson took safeties in both the Colts home game and Bears road game in the end zone, tells you all you need to know. That dude does not take the "throwing it away" route easily whatsoever. He wants to keep the play alive as long as it takes. It can be exhausting for DL and DBs, which is why it is important for our offense to control tempo and have long drives to keep the DL and DBs fresh for their shots at Watson. It is almost like high intensity defense for short intervals of time that is not sustainable if you have to do it in a series every 3 or 4 minutes. 

 

Yup. The offense was controlling the clock better earlier in the season, though not scoring enough points. This is a game where they need to dominate the clock and put up points to take some pressure off the defense. And we'll probably need to be able to do that in the playoffs also, especially if we have to play KC or Baltimore.

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W's and Ls are the "sausage". On a forum board a lot of folks talk about how the sausage is made, if the sausage is good, if the sausage is better than other sausage, and is the sausage good enough to be the best sausage. Some fans aren't interested in what goes into the sausage, are just proud of their sausage, and don't care if their sausage has what it takes to win the sausage award. And that's OK. Those folks however should realize however that some folks take their sausage more seriously.

 

I think you hit on the problem Eastsreet. I think we need more beef up front.

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1 hour ago, hoosierhawk said:

W's and Ls are the "sausage". On a forum board a lot of folks talk about how the sausage is made, if the sausage is good, if the sausage is better than other sausage, and is the sausage good enough to be the best sausage. Some fans aren't interested in what goes into the sausage, are just proud of their sausage, and don't care if their sausage has what it takes to win the sausage award. And that's OK. Those folks however should realize however that some folks take their sausage more seriously.

 

I think you hit on the problem Eastsreet. I think we need more beef up front.

In the business world, they are known as "bean-couinters."

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1 hour ago, hoosierhawk said:

W's and Ls are the "sausage". On a forum board a lot of folks talk about how the sausage is made, if the sausage is good, if the sausage is better than other sausage, and is the sausage good enough to be the best sausage. Some fans aren't interested in what goes into the sausage, are just proud of their sausage, and don't care if their sausage has what it takes to win the sausage award. And that's OK. Those folks however should realize however that some folks take their sausage more seriously.

 

I think you hit on the problem Eastsreet. I think we need more beef up front.

I think our front end beef is fine. Just need more variation from the sausage maker.

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