Colts 2021 Draft Watchlists and Team Fits/ Senior Bowl Week (Merge)

[danlhart87]

I did a mock on reddit giving NYG Jaelan Phillips and NYG fan commented saying he would rather have AVT cause he's much better prospect...

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

I did a mock on reddit giving NYG Jaelan Phillips and NYG fan commented saying he would rather have AVT cause he's much better prospect...

 

So?

 

As long as Phillips has a history of concussions, a number of players might be considered to be a much better prospect. 
 

It’s just one person’s opinion....

[EastStreet]

For those that are doing cartwheels over RAS scores...

 

Banogu scored a 9.7... 

 

In short, RAS is nice, but it's just one indicator.

[MikeCurtis]

On 4/15/2021 at 2:44 AM, stitches said:

Here's Payton Turner's evaluation from Greg Cosell:

 

 

IMO he won't last until 54... 

 

Im starting to think that he will be gone as well.......

 

If we trade into the early 2nd round to get more picks, he would be a great target  

[Defjamz26]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:55 AM, EastStreet said:

For those that are doing cartwheels over RAS scores...

 

Banogu scored a 9.7... 

 

In short, RAS is nice, but it's just one indicator.

Most people agreed that Banogu was a reach though because he really was super raw coming out. He didn’t even know how to rush the passer in college.

[MPStack]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:55 AM, EastStreet said:

For those that are doing cartwheels over RAS scores...

 

Banogu scored a 9.7... 

 

In short, RAS is nice, but it's just one indicator.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/relativeathleticscores.com/2020/01/12/mike-mamula-ras/amp/
 

Yep! 

[NewColtsFan]

On 4/19/2021 at 9:05 AM, Defjamz26 said:

Most people agreed that Banogu was a reach though because he really was super raw coming out. He didn’t even know how to rush the passer in college.

Well...     got a guy who didn’t know how to rush the QB, he recorded 17 sacks in two seasons at TCU.    8.5 in back to back seasons.    TCU plays a very unconventional defense, so BB’s skill set was very raw.   But he was not without real talent.  
 

Do I wish we’d have drafted AJ Brown instead and taken BB at pick 59 instead of Campbell — sure.   But hopefully next off-season we will all feel better about our Day 2 picks from 2019. 

[DaColts85]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well...     got a guy who didn’t know how to rush the QB, he recorded 17 sacks in two seasons at TCU.    8.5 in back to back seasons.    TCU plays a very unconventional defense, so BB’s skill set was very raw.   But he was not without real talent.  

Jerry Hughes was another TCU guy that didn’t hit for us either. Not comparing him and BB but maybe TCU guys don’t work for us. Random early morning thoughts. 

[Yoshinator]

Just read all this and caught up on some nice RAS scores! Got me pumped for the draft! 

 

Thanks for all the info you guys!

[Defjamz26]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well...     got a guy who didn’t know how to rush the QB, he recorded 17 sacks in two seasons at TCU.    8.5 in back to back seasons.    TCU plays a very unconventional defense, so BB’s skill set was very raw.   But he was not without real talent.  
 

Do I wish we’d have drafted AJ Brown instead and taken BB at pick 59 instead of Campbell — sure.   But hopefully next off-season we will all feel better about our Day 2 picks from 2019. 

I probably should have clarified. I read an article when we drafted him that said he wasn’t taught any pass rush moves in college. Not sure he even lined up in a 3 point stance. That’s what I meant. He had sack production in college but wasn’t necessarily a pass rush specialist. A lot of his production was athleticism, effort, and scheme.

[Defjamz26]

Also an interesting tweet on Cosmi. This puts what NCF has been saying about his draft stock in perspective 

 

 

[stitches]

 

[stitches]

27 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Also an interesting tweet on Cosmi. This puts what NCF has been saying about his draft stock in perspective 

 

 

That's the thing... why would an insane athlete with tons of starts in top program in college even be there at 21 for us to take if he was such a no brainer pick and had no warts?! At that spot you are juggling and weighing different sets of positives and negatives for each prospect and in some cases the negatives are almost as strong as the positives. I like Cosmi and I would be happy if we picked him to be our LT of the future, but we should be doing it with the expectation and knowledge that he has a ton of work to do to get to a point where he will be even solid starter, let alone a great one. For example... I am not a huge fan of Sam Tevi or Davenport... but I would not be shocked if one of them beat him for the starting spot year 1(if he was our pick)

[Defjamz26]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

That's the thing... why would an insane athlete with tons of starts in top program in college even be there at 21 for us to take if he was such a no brainer pick and had no warts?! At that spot you are juggling and weighing different sets of positives and negatives for each prospect and in some cases the negatives are almost as strong as the positives. I like Cosmi and I would be happy if we picked him to be our LT of the future, but we should be doing it with the expectation and knowledge that he has a ton of work to do to get to a point where he will be even solid starter, let alone a great one. For example... I am not a huge fan of Sam Tevi or Davenport... but I would not be shocked if one of them beat him for the starting spot year 1(if he was our pick)

Sam Cosmi reminds me of the conversation people were having about Kolton Miller a few years ago. Super toolsy but also raw. He may not be a top 20 lock like some have suggested. He can very well be a 1st round pick, but like Miller it will take a team falling in love with the upside.

[stitches]

 

 

Tutu Atwell is under 150 pounds. WOW! 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Sam Cosmi reminds me of the conversation people were having about Kolton Miller a few years ago. Super toolsy but also raw. He may not be a top 20 lock like some have suggested. He can very well be a 1st round pick, but like Miller it will take a team falling in love with the upside.

Recently I read some analyst saying that within NFL circles, Cosmi is dropping, not rising.   They didn’t say how far, but they made it sound like R2 is far more likely than R1.   Whether it’s far down enough to be there at pick 54, I have no idea, but I’d guess no.   So maybe 30’s and 40’s...

 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

 

For me, this is one of the least surprising results.   Once Smith refused to be measured or weighed either at the Senior Bowl or his Oro Day, those red flags said he wanted to keep that info private for as long as possible.  He had to know it would get out sooner or later.

 

But within scouting circles, WR is known as the “Diva” position.  Think Keyshawn Johnson, Terrell Owens,  Chad Johnson, Odell Beckham and on and on.....

[Shive]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

Tutu Atwell is under 150 pounds. WOW! 

YIKES! He looked small, but that's tiny.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

Tutu Atwell is under 150 pounds. WOW! 

Not sure any player has hurt himself more than Tutu Atwell.   A month ago, McShay mocked him at pick 33, the top of the 2nd round.  
 

Now?   3rd round?   4th round?

 

Throughout this process, Atwell has been listed at 165-175.   People expected him to show up at his Pro Day at 175 and run 4.2’s.   Instead, he shows up at 155 and runs 4.4’s.

 

Now, he’s....  149?!?   He’s like a stock that has peaked early and suddenly feels like is falling like a rock, or even a boulder.  What in the world is going on with him?!? 
 

Totally crazy....

 

(Now watch him still go in the 2nd round!?).  

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

That's the thing... why would an insane athlete with tons of starts in top program in college even be there at 21 for us to take if he was such a no brainer pick and had no warts?! At that spot you are juggling and weighing different sets of positives and negatives for each prospect and in some cases the negatives are almost as strong as the positives. I like Cosmi and I would be happy if we picked him to be our LT of the future, but we should be doing it with the expectation and knowledge that he has a ton of work to do to get to a point where he will be even solid starter, let alone a great one. For example... I am not a huge fan of Sam Tevi or Davenport... but I would not be shocked if one of them beat him for the starting spot year 1(if he was our pick)

 

Whether it's Cosmi, or Eichenberg, or Radunz or most any other LT candidate,  I would not bue surprised if one of our free agents, like Tevi, would start over our rookie on Day One.    And hold the job at least up to the Bye Week.    Maybe all season long?    I think all of these guys will need to get up to NFL speed, and that's easier said than done.

[Shive]

27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Whether it's Cosmi, or Eichenberg, or Radunz or most any other LT candidate,  I would not bue surprised if one of our free agents, like Tevi, would start over our rookie on Day One.    And hold the job at least up to the Bye Week.    Maybe all season long?    I think all of these guys will need to get up to NFL speed, and that's easier said than done.

I could see Eichenberg stepping in on day 1 and play decently, but those other 2 absolutely need time to develop. Hopefully Tevi ends up playing well and nobody gets thrown into the fire too soon.

[richard pallo]

19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Whether it's Cosmi, or Eichenberg, or Radunz or most any other LT candidate,  I would not bue surprised if one of our free agents, like Tevi, would start over our rookie on Day One.    And hold the job at least up to the Bye Week.    Maybe all season long?    I think all of these guys will need to get up to NFL speed, and that's easier said than done.

I think if we wait and take a tackle day 2 then I could see the possibility of not starting right away but taking over by mid season.  But if we take one day 1 I think he will start right away.  

[stitches]

 

[Fluke_33]

On 4/21/2021 at 3:29 PM, Shive said:

I could see Eichenberg stepping in on day 1 and play decently, but those other 2 absolutely need time to develop. Hopefully Tevi ends up playing well and nobody gets thrown into the fire too soon.

Polian says he sees eichenberg as having a long career as a backup/swing tackle but never a starter.  Said he really likes him for that limited role though.  

[Gigc]

On 4/19/2021 at 9:05 AM, Defjamz26 said:

Most people agreed that Banogu was a reach though because he really was super raw coming out. He didn’t even know how to rush the passer in college.

I'm not sure that we haven't misused Banogu. If you go back and look at his college tape, he was never that "screaming in off the edge" guy. If I remember correctly, he was much more effective rushing from the inside. I know he's like 250, but maybe we should try him as a rush specialist rushing as a DT on passing downs.  

then again, as Ballard said, it takes pass rushers some time to blossom. Remember Jerry Hughes.

I wonder if, with Walker signing with Cleveland, whether they've given any thought to playing Banogu as a LB. He was pretty good standing up and scraping down the line.

[NewColtsFan]

On 4/21/2021 at 11:29 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Not sure any player has hurt himself more than Tutu Atwell.   A month ago, McShay mocked him at pick 33, the top of the 2nd round.  
 

Now?   3rd round?   4th round?

 

Throughout this process, Atwell has been listed at 165-175.   People expected him to show up at his Pro Day at 175 and run 4.2’s.   Instead, he shows up at 155 and runs 4.4’s.

 

Now, he’s....  149?!?   He’s like a stock that has peaked early and suddenly feels like is falling like a rock, or even a boulder.  What in the world is going on with him?!? 
 

Totally crazy....

 

(Now watch him still go in the 2nd round!?).  

 

A quick follow-up on Atwell....     since I noted that McShay had once mocked Atwell to pick 33....   I should also note that in his latest mock,  McShay mocked him at pick 38....

 

So,  even though Atwell lost weight from 155 to 149 and ran slower than expected 4.4's instead of 4.2's...   McShay still loves him.      Would I spend a 2nd round pick on Atwell.     No.   I.    Would.   Not.

 

But maybe that's just me?

[Defjamz26]

47 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

A quick follow-up on Atwell....     since I noted that McShay had once mocked Atwell to pick 33....   I should also note that in his latest mock,  McShay mocked him at pick 38....

 

So,  even though Atwell lost weight from 155 to 149 and ran slower than expected 4.4's instead of 4.2's...   McShay still loves him.      Would I spend a 2nd round pick on Atwell.     No.   I.    Would.   Not.

 

But maybe that's just me?

I wouldn’t spend more than a 4th. I’m getting Tavon Austin vibes.

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I wouldn’t spend more than a 4th. I’m getting Tavon Austin vibes.

 

Exactly.    Thank you.

 

I appreciate that sometimes you can take a smaller than normal type of player.   Tarik Cohen, the RB is just 5'6"...   but he's also 190 pounds,  so he's short,  but not small.   Atwell, is both short and, at 149 or 155 or maybe even 165,  he'd be the smallest player in the NFL.    Maybe by a lot.     I'm sure he's talented, but at some point, if you're using a premium pick, size matters.

 

It just does.

 

[Defjamz26]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Exactly.    Thank you.

 

I appreciate that sometimes you can take a smaller than normal type of player.   Tarik Cohen, the RB is just 5'6"...   but he's also 190 pounds,  so he's short,  but not small.   Atwell, is both short and, at 149 or 155 or maybe even 165,  he'd be the smallest player in the NFL.    Maybe by a lot.     I'm sure he's talented, but at some point, if you're using a premium pick, size matters.

 

It just does.

 

Agreed. When you have guys like Jamal Adams roaming the middle, you can’t trust someone who’s 140 pounds to consistently be out on the field. Size matters because it’s a grown man’s game.

[stitches]

 

[Zoltan]

Anyone else surprised how far Shaun Wade has fallen in draft rankings?

I just saw he was projected to be a 5th round pick, which seems like a steal to me, I don't see him coming in and excelling as an outside corner but he was near elite in 2019 as a nickel corner. I personally would like us to draft him and have him be the backup to Moore. His physical measurements seem to fit what Ballard likes if I remember right too.

 

Height: 6' 1/2"

Weight: 196

Arms: 33 1/2"

Hands: 9 1/4"

RAS: 9.6

[stitches]

7 hours ago, Zoltan said:

Anyone else surprised how far Shaun Wade has fallen in draft rankings?

I just saw he was projected to be a 5th round pick, which seems like a steal to me, I don't see him coming in and excelling as an outside corner but he was near elite in 2019 as a nickel corner. I personally would like us to draft him and have him be the backup to Moore. His physical measurements seem to fit what Ballard likes if I remember right too.

 

Height: 6' 1/2"

Weight: 196

Arms: 33 1/2"

Hands: 9 1/4"

RAS: 9.6

Yep, I included him in my mock yesterday. Wade should never drop that far. In today's league slot corner is almost a starting position. Slots play 70-80% of the snaps for certain teams. Yes, Wade didn't do well outside, but who says you need to play him outside? He played great as a slot and IMO anywhere outside of the top 3 rounds, Wade is a steal. 

[stitches]

 

 

^^^ 

[Defjamz26]

22 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

^^^ 

Thats what I’m saying man. Rich man’s Tyquan Lewis. He can start day one

[stitches]

1 minute ago, Defjamz26 said:

Thats what I’m saying man. Rich man’s Tyquan Lewis. He can start day one

Yep, he fits what Ballard seems to like from his LDEs. Very similar TYPE of prospect to Lewis, the other Basham, Gerri Green.... except... he's better than all of them IMO. 

[Defjamz26]

27 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yep, he fits what Ballard seems to like from his LDEs. Very similar TYPE of prospect to Lewis, the other Basham, Gerri Green.... except... he's better than all of them IMO. 

Way better. None of those guys were as good of a pass rusher as he is now. Good ceiling too. I think he could start day 1. The thing that showed up on tape was a super hot motor and the staff really seems to value that.

[Shive]

9 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Way better. None of those guys were as good of a pass rusher as he is now. Good ceiling too. I think he could start day 1. The thing that showed up on tape was a super hot motor and the staff really seems to value that.

I see Basham in the mold of a DE like Sheard and with a similar ceiling (when he was with us). I don't see him being an all-pro, but a high floor player that will be a starter for a long time with solid production. I don't dislike it at all.

[DougDew]

26 minutes ago, Shive said:

I see Basham in the mold of a DE like Sheard and with a similar ceiling (when he was with us). I don't see him being an all-pro, but a high floor player that will be a starter for a long time with solid production. I don't dislike it at all.

Lewis is/was supposed to be that guy.  If Ballard drafts Basham, it will say what he thinks of Lewis, IMO. 

 

I think Payton Turner is a little different.  He's probably more capable as a DT in rush packages than either Lewis or Basham.

[buccolts]

Of all the guys Ballard's been rumored to be interested in, the only one I recall him actually drafting was Leonard.

Everyone else may have been smoke screens. 'Er smoking something.

[stitches]

Some injury news and concerns that have surfaced about players:

-Azeez Ojulari might have a degenaritive lower leg condition(knee?) and might fall out of R1

-Terrace Marshall has a knee issue too 

-Zach Wilson's shoulder is not 100% after a surgery he had in 2019

-Rashawn Slater flagged for a back issue...

-Christian Darrisaw played with a groin injury to end the 2020 season. Had core mussle surgery in January

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