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Nelson at LT/JMV on LT (merge)


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So did Pascal    

Yep and it worked well

I was wrong. He played eight snaps at LT, four were run plays, four were pass plays. One of those passes was a screen play. All on the second possession of the game.   https://www.indystar.c

Nelson would defiantly have to be on  board with it. If he was excited to do it I defiantly would think about it. It really opens up what we can do in the draft.  Colts could always draft a tackle in the second or third as backup and if they turned out to be great nelson could stay at guard.

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38 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Nelson would defiantly have to be on  board with it. If he was excited to do it I defiantly would think about it. It really opens up what we can do in the draft.  Colts could always draft a tackle in the second or third as backup and if they turned out to be great nelson could stay at guard.

 

O.K., that's it. NOW I'm going to ask...... Is your computer auto correcting you to 'defiantly', or are you mis-typing it, or are you just that adamant about everything?   :default_20smile:

I'm sure you mean 'definitely'. 

I've seen it in a couple of others posts, as well, but from you a lot.

It's not a biggie, just an observation.

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As long as he works on it and makes the transition seamlessly, I'm good with it. And I agree with the general sentiment - LT is much more important and much harder to find great players at than LG and Nelson has the talent to do it. 

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Idk. Why create another hole? Yeah it’s easier to replace guards but how easy is it to replace that type of production at guard? We’re talking 2x All-Pro,Pro-bowl, stuff. Best at his position.

 

Plus if we don’t want to spend a 1st on LT, we don’t want to draft a QB, what exactly are we supposed to spend our first on? Edge I guess but I don’t understand why you would Telegraph the pick like that.

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I'm not on board. I don't think going from LG to LT is as reliable a prospect as people like to make it seem, even for a great player like Nelson. I think Nelson is a much better run blocker than pass blocker. I think putting him in space against good edge rushers would expose one of his "weaknesses," and I think his ability to excel as a lineman would be diminished. It would also weaken us at LG (obviously). Our left side would probably go from a strength to a liability.

 

I'm going to take a look at his reps at LT in the last game, but if I remember correctly, there were only a few, and they were all run plays. 

 

I'd rather have a replacement level left tackle playing next to Nelson at guard than a replacement level guard playing next to Nelson at tackle.

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

I'm not on board. I don't think going from LG to LT is as reliable a prospect as people like to make it seem, even for a great player like Nelson. I think Nelson is a much better run blocker than pass blocker. I think putting him in space against good edge rushers would expose one of his "weaknesses," and I think his ability to excel as a lineman would be diminished. It would also weaken us at LG (obviously). Our left side would probably go from a strength to a liability.

 

I'm going to take a look at his reps at LT in the last game, but if I remember correctly, there were only a few, and they were all run plays. 

 

I'd rather have a replacement level left tackle playing next to Nelson at guard than a replacement level guard playing next to Nelson at tackle.

I’d think the team would have to have some degree of him on film outside 4-5 snaps to determine Q has what it takes to transition into a solid/spectacular LT. That takes a new skill set to take on those pass rushing ends with tons of speed and agility. If anyone on the team has the capability to transition over there, it would be big Q but I too have my doubts that he would be as successful at LT as he has at LG in his time. I’ll follow this thread for others analysis of Q and what they saw Sunday. 

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  • Nadine changed the title to Nelson at LT/JMV on LT (merge)

I must be in the minority that I’d rather him stay at LG.

 

I understand the argument in theory, but I think he’d have a lower ceiling at LT. He’s an elite run blocker, and while he’s solid in pass pro, just doesn’t seem like we’d be utilizing his strengths. And he wouldn’t be able to pull block nearly as much. 

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I was wrong. He played eight snaps at LT, four were run plays, four were pass plays. One of those passes was a screen play. All on the second possession of the game.

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2020/12/14/colts-news-how-all-pro-guard-quenton-nelson-ended-up-playing-left-tackle/6549805002/

 

#1 -- inside run, not an impressive rep from Nelson, but okay

#2 -- pass play, against a stunt, so no need to get deep or kick out; handled well

#3 -- pass play, good depth in his pass block set

#4 -- run play, off tackle left, good blocks by Hunt and Kelly, decent block by Nelson but looked to struggle in space

#5 -- screen pass, straight set for Nelson, not really a pass block rep

#6 -- run play, right, simple block for Nelson

#7 -- pass play, matched up with Beasley, lumbering kick slide and pass block set from Nelson, definitely his worst looking rep, and can be submitted as Exhibit A for why I don't think he'd be good at tackle (go to the 4:50 mark of the first quarter)

#8 -- run play, inside, Nelson on the move to the second level

 

I'm against this.

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24 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I must be in the minority that I’d rather him stay at LG.

 

I understand the argument in theory, but I think he’d have a lower ceiling at LT. He’s an elite run blocker, and while he’s solid in pass pro, just doesn’t seem like we’d be utilizing his strengths. And he wouldn’t be able to pull block nearly as much. 

I'd prefer him to stay at LG too, but JT and NH are both good at running over T/edge, so it's not like his run blocking would be a waste there. And more than anything, I wouldn't put too much into how he performed in emergency duty (which I think he did more than OK).

 

I could see several potential lineups. 

 

QN/BrS/RK/MG/RookFA

QN/MG/RK/RookFA/BrS

nonsense/QN/RK/MG/RookFA

RookFA/QN/RK/MG/BrS

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

I was wrong. He played eight snaps at LT, four were run plays, four were pass plays. One of those passes was a screen play. All on the second possession of the game.

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2020/12/14/colts-news-how-all-pro-guard-quenton-nelson-ended-up-playing-left-tackle/6549805002/

 

#1 -- inside run, not an impressive rep from Nelson, but okay

#2 -- pass play, against a stunt, so no need to get deep or kick out; handled well

#3 -- pass play, good depth in his pass block set

#4 -- run play, off tackle left, good blocks by Hunt and Kelly, decent block by Nelson but looked to struggle in space

#5 -- screen pass, straight set for Nelson, not really a pass block rep

#6 -- run play, right, simple block for Nelson

#7 -- pass play, matched up with Beasley, lumbering kick slide and pass block set from Nelson, definitely his worst looking rep, and can be submitted as Exhibit A for why I don't think he'd be good at tackle (go to the 4:50 mark of the first quarter)

#8 -- run play, inside, Nelson on the move to the second level

 

I'm against this.

I'm not for it at this point, but not going to put any stock into how he performed in emergency duty. I think he did quite well under the last minute circumstances. 

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5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'm not for it at this point, but not going to put any stock into how he performed in emergency duty. I think he did quite well under the last minute circumstances. 

 

In this case, "quite well" = didn't get beat in pass pro on three plays.

 

I'm being harsh. But the point is that I don't think it's a good idea, for a host of reasons.

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Way too soon to anoint Q as the next LT. But its also too soon to dump on the idea. We'll see if he gets more reps there. I suspect he will, though hopefully not too soon, since it would mean AC is hurt again. But I figure we'd all rather see Q there than Green. 

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3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Nelson would defiantly have to be on  board with it. 

He said teams asked him about that at the combine and that he would be on board with it, he thinks he can play any position on the line.  he might make more money at LT too

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1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

This just in....coaches and scouts are pretty damned smart. If his measurables had pointed to LT

 

They did consider it at Notre dame, but they put him at LG because they had a good LT already.  

 

He said himself there was interest in moving him to LT at the combine by nfl teams, which he was on board with. of course it didnt happen when he went to another team that already had that spot filled.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

I'd prefer him to stay at LG too, but JT and NH are both good at running over T/edge, so it's not like his run blocking would be a waste there. And more than anything, I wouldn't put too much into how he performed in emergency duty (which I think he did more than OK).

 

I could see several potential lineups. 

 

QN/BrS/RK/MG/RookFA

QN/MG/RK/RookFA/BrS

nonsense/QN/RK/MG/RookFA

RookFA/QN/RK/MG/BrS

 

Yeah, I don’t put much into it for that reason, the small sample size, as well as the fact that the opposing team didn’t really expect it either. Unique situation all around.

 

But yeah, just can’t really get down with the idea.

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1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

This just in....coaches and scouts are pretty damned smart. If his measurables had pointed to LT, he would have been given that shot both in college and in the pros. He's an outstanding guard. Let's not screw with that.

 

Mmmmkay?

I remember the consensus on Braden Smith was that his best position in the pros was guard.  We moved him to RT and haven't looked back or regretted it since.  The fact that we tried him at LT in an important game tips their hand that the team is going to explore this move in the future.  And they should. The position is more important than guard and I have a feeling that he would be great there as well.  

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16 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I remember the consensus on Braden Smith was that his best position in the pros was guard.  We moved him to RT and haven't looked back or regretted it since.  The fact that we tried him at LT in an important game tips their hand that the team is going to explore this move in the future.  And they should. The position is more important than guard and I have a feeling that he would be great there as well.  

You may be right.   Maybe.

 

Byt I don’t think the fact that we used him in the game has anything to do with a tip toward the future.   I think it has more to do with a mod to the present.  We had an emergency, an immediate emergency.  
 

I don’t connect the dots for a year or two from now.    
 

Ultimately, it may work out that way.  But I wouldn’t read too much into a very short emergency stint.   At least, not yet. 

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I think this is much ado about nothing. 
 

1. I firmly believe this had everything to do with an emergency situation and not part of some long term plan. 
 

2. Nelson did well in his limited LT snaps but the reality is the sample size was REALLY small and the Raiders do not have a who’s who on the d line.  
 

3. Nelson is a guard. He looks like a guard, his skills set suggest a guard. Good to know he can do it in a pinch but I think the Colts are in the LT market come this draft or next. 

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

In this case, "quite well" = didn't get beat in pass pro on three plays.

 

I'm being harsh. But the point is that I don't think it's a good idea, for a host of reasons.

Yup, too harsh. Not idea to me either though. 

I wonder if they practiced at all with him there. It was a unique situation all around with injuries, so I kind of doubt it. If I knew they practiced with him at LT, I might be a little more harsh, but if they didn't, I put zero stock in it. Completely different responsibilities. 

46 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Here's my thoughts if Colts eventually move Q

 

LT Q

LG Pinter

OC Kelly 

RG Glow

RT Smith

 

An OG would be drafted for depth 

Pinter is an unknown right now, which is why I left him out. I'd put him at RG or RT before I'd put him on the left side. Keep in mind he's still somewhat new to the OL in general, and he went through a pretty big body transformation in a short time. Still pretty raw I'm guessing in more than one way.

35 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

They did consider it at Notre dame, but they put him at LG because they had a good LT already.  

 

He said himself there was interest in moving him to LT at the combine by nfl teams, which he was on board with. of course it didnt happen when he went to another team that already had that spot filled.

Yup, had an embarrassment of riches those years, and stud LT when he came in. 

ND coaches even talked about him being able to do anything/any-position. 

16 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I remember the consensus on Braden Smith was that his best position in the pros was guard.  We moved him to RT and haven't looked back or regretted it since.  The fact that we tried him at LT in an important game tips their hand that the team is going to explore this move in the future.  And they should. The position is more important than guard and I have a feeling that he would be great there as well.  

I still think Braden would perform better at G, but he's be fantastic at T so I'm more than fine. 

I truly think QN would be decent at any position. Too early to say anything definitive. It took a lot of musical chairs in 2018 for I think 5-6 weeks before we found the right combination. Guge did a great job moving pieces around till he found the right combination. I could see that playing out if needed. 

 

28 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Yeah, I don’t put much into it for that reason, the small sample size, as well as the fact that the opposing team didn’t really expect it either. Unique situation all around.

 

But yeah, just can’t really get down with the idea.

Very unique, and the "emergency" factor weighs heavy.

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1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

This just in....coaches and scouts are pretty damned smart. If his measurables had pointed to LT, he would have been given that shot both in college and in the pros. He's an outstanding guard. Let's not screw with that.

 

Mmmmkay?

 

This just in....

 

When Q arrived at ND, he was put at guard because Ronnie Stanley, All Pro and All American, and sixth overall pick in the 2016 draft, was already at LT. Also, Mike McGlinchey, another All American, and 9th overall pick (took 3 behind Q in 2018) was manning RT. When Stanley left, the correct move was to slide All American RT McG to LT and leave Q at LG. Why was a correct? Because they had two top 10 OTs Alex Barrs and Tommy Kramer to man the RT position. 

 

Let's just say ND had an embarrassing amount of talent on the OL at that time. ND Coaches said Q could have easily played LT. Pro scouts and teams asked him about his willingness to play left tackle.

 

Mmmmkay?

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Athletically speaking he looked like a guard trying to play tackle to me. I sort of wonder how hed stack up against the really athletic DE/OLB and some of the games. I sort of dont think hed be quick enough amongst other things.

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27 minutes ago, krunk said:

Athletically speaking he looked like a guard trying to play tackle to me. I sort of wonder how hed stack up against the really athletic DE/OLB and some of the games. I sort of dont think hed be quick enough amongst other things.

Faster than Smith in the shuttle.

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1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

I remember the consensus on Braden Smith was that his best position in the pros was guard.  We moved him to RT and haven't looked back or regretted it since.  The fact that we tried him at LT in an important game tips their hand that the team is going to explore this move in the future.  And they should. The position is more important than guard and I have a feeling that he would be great there as well.  

Big difference in scouting a player predraft, and using them at a different position of choice.....and suddenly changing a successful players position down the road.  The only time I have seen players get moved is when they are underperforming, or their is a temporary injury situation where they fill in. QN isn't a late round player where folks might disagree on the scouting. He was and is a monster G at the NFL level. 

 

There was no hand tipping IMO, just getting past an in-game injury moment. 

 

As far as which position is more important, it depends on the defense that the team is playing. if the D has great speed on the edge, then your LT is important, big time. If the D has more push up the middle of the line, the G is important. 

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1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

 

As far as which position is more important, it depends on the defense that the team is playing. if the D has great speed on the edge, then your LT is important, big time. If the D has more push up the middle of the line, the G is important. 

Is that why LT is the highest paid position on the OL? They protect the blind side to keep your QB from getting killed. Have always understood LT was the most important guy on the OL. as stated previously not real keen on moving Nelson but we may have a hae=rd time finding a very good LT in round 1 of draft but could be more apt to find a good IOL in rd 2 or 3 and draft a DE or DB in rd1. Just a thought.           

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On 12/14/2020 at 11:30 AM, stitches said:

I think if they don't have a ready replacement for AC, Quenton should be a real option to be moved to LT, which is a much more important position than LG and much harder to find a great player at. I think Q has all it takes to be great there too. Imagine if he had a full off-season working on it... 

I would rather pay Nelson over 20 million as a LT than a guard. That decision would be an easy one to make

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2 hours ago, krunk said:

Athletically speaking he looked like a guard trying to play tackle to me. I sort of wonder how hed stack up against the really athletic DE/OLB and some of the games. I sort of dont think hed be quick enough amongst other things.

Length is really important for LTs. Face a lot of speed rushers bending the corner. Not sure Nelson has those traits to b successful

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17 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Length is really important for LTs. Face a lot of speed rushers bending the corner. Not sure Nelson has those traits to b successful

Nelson has longer arms than the PFF's pre season #1 ranked OT Mitchell Schwartz, and a larger wingspan that their #2 ranked OT Ryan Ramczyk

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10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Nelson has longer arms than the PFF's pre season #1 ranked OT Mitchell Schwartz, and a larger wingspan that their #2 ranked OT Ryan Ramczyk

Yep and Schwartz is one of the best. I remember Larry Allen played some LT after playing OG for years and he still dominated. Nelson reminds me of him.

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yep and Schwartz is one of the best. I remember Larry Allen played some LT after playing OG for years and he still dominated. Nelson reminds me of him.

Personally, I hope he stays at LG, but I do think he could be successful at LT. I think there'd be some bumps early, but IMO after 3-5 games, he'd be just fine. He would have been a starting LT at pretty much any other school but ND. It's only by rare circumstance and timing that he stayed at LG. I'd like to see Smith get a look at LT when the time comes, and bring in FA or draft pick (perhaps Pinter?) for RT.

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33 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yep and Schwartz is one of the best. I remember Larry Allen played some LT after playing OG for years and he still dominated. Nelson reminds me of him.

I’m glad you brought up Larry Allen. That’s a great example of a star player switching from G to T and not missing a beat. 

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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

This just in....

 

When Q arrived at ND, he was put at guard because Ronnie Stanley, All Pro and All American, and sixth overall pick in the 2016 draft, was already at LT. Also, Mike McGlinchey, another All American, and 9th overall pick (took 3 behind Q in 2018) was manning RT. When Stanley left, the correct move was to slide All American RT McG to LT and leave Q at LG. Why was a correct? Because they had two top 10 OTs Alex Barrs and Tommy Kramer to man the RT position. 

 

Let's just say ND had an embarrassing amount of talent on the OL at that time. ND Coaches said Q could have easily played LT. Pro scouts and teams asked him about his willingness to play left tackle.

 

Mmmmkay?

 

You're leaning pretty heavily on this angle that he might have been considered at LT if not for other more suitable players being available (which is another way to say that he was beat out at LT by better players). 

 

I would just like to point out that there are plenty of serviceable tackles in college that get moved to guard in the NFL because of their traits and ability. Just because he was considered at LT in college doesn't mean he has the traits to play LT in the NFL. I don't think he has the needed traits. He's a great athlete and a great competitor so he probably wouldn't be awful. 

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

You're leaning pretty heavily on this angle that he might have been considered at LT if not for other more suitable players being available (which is another way to say that he was beat out at LT by better players). 

 

I would just like to point out that there are plenty of serviceable tackles in college that get moved to guard in the NFL because of their traits and ability. Just because he was considered at LT in college doesn't mean he has the traits to play LT in the NFL. I don't think he has the needed traits. He's a great athlete and a great competitor so he probably wouldn't be awful. 

I think Nelson could probably play LT full time and still be good at worse. Obviously I would love him to stay at OG where he is great. I prefer the guys with the longer reach too like back in the day with Munoz and Joe Jacoby's. Having long arms does help playing that position but Nelson is so strong a lot like Allen was I think he would do ok.

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