Qb for next year/QB class of 2021 (merge)

[NewColtsFan]

46 minutes ago, w87r said:

I'm really not against rolling with Eason, if it comes down to it.

 

1. We will know if he gives us a potential future at QB.

2. Will allow us to build a solid team around him, as he is cheap.

3. If he fails, then we will most likely have pretty good draft positioning.

4. I think he has all the traits of Josh Allen coming into the league.

 

So if all else fails let @skinnyqb10 roll. 

Remember, I’m the President of your Fan Club! 
 

I’d like to stop this right at #1.  
 

All Eason will show us is what he is at this moment.  He will not be able to show much else because he’s just not ready.   If you allow him another year as the backup, one step up from where he is,  then you’ll then have a better idea of what Eason might become.   It’s the difference what a player IS, and what a player MIGHT BE. 
 

Throwing a quarterback in before they’re ready can just as easily stunt growth instead of develop it.   If we rush Eason we might wrongly decide that he doesn’t have what it takes, instead of bringing him along more patiently where we might find out Eason can be really good.  That’s why I target ‘22 and not ‘21 for him. 
 

Put another way, just because we need Eason to be ready now, doesn’t mean he’s ready for Prime Time.   Need is a terrible judge of talent.  

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

Well in that sense Colts just promoted Marcus Brady to OC. Shouldn’t the Colts then get maybe a 4th round comp pick?

Brady is already on our team.   We promoted him.   Our reward is hopefully Brady is good at his new job. 
 

The 49ers LOST their DC.   They’re being compensated for their loss.  

[w87r]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Remember, I’m the President of your Fan Club! 
 

I’d like to stop this right at #1.  
 

All Eason will show us is what he is at this moment.  He will not be able to show much else because he’s just not ready.   If you allow him another year as the backup, one step up from where he is,  then you’ll then have a better idea of what Eason might become.   It’s the difference what a player IS, and what a player MIGHT BE. 
 

Throwing a quarterback in before they’re ready can just as easily stunt growth instead of develop it.   If we rush Eason we might wrongly decide that he doesn’t have what it takes, instead of bringing him along more patiently where we might find out Eason can be really good.  That’s why I target ‘22 and not ‘21 for him. 
 

Put another way, just because we need Eason to be ready now, doesn’t mean he’s ready for Prime Time.   Need is a terrible judge of talent.  

I agree with everything you said and I'm not pulling for this to happen.

 

This is last case scenario, "If it comes down to it". 

 

I don't really think Josh Allen was ready either but he labored through a couple bad seasons and made a huge jump. Not saying that, that will happen here. It could just as easily go the way you posted about.

 

If it goes south, at least #3 would be in play and at the end of the day and only losing out on a 4th round pick, when Allen was top 10.

 

With every gamble there is a risk, sometimes you get rewarded.

 

 

Again though, this is not what I'm hoping for in at all, but is an option I could support if all other logical options fall through. The last thing I would want to do is force a bad option that hurts the team in the long run financially.

[NewColtsFan]

51 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Go on a Viking fan forum.

As a general rule, I couldn’t care less what a fan forum thinks.   Fans are hugely uninformed.   A fan forum is akin to Lord of the Flies.

 

Listen to smart people.  Informed people.  People who cover the NFL for a living.   There’s a reason why good execs don’t pay attention to their fans. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

18 minutes ago, w87r said:

I often feel like when I bring up Cousins, @NFLfan wants to do this to me.

 

Sometimes she wants to do this to me I feel - she is a great lady though. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I can beat it, offer them our 21st pick this year which is a 1st rounder and this years 3rd and next years 2nd being in 22. We still would be ok regarding the draft. We would have picks 2 and 4-7 this year and next year would have our 1st and 3-7 + Stafford.

I’m not saying it can’t be beat.   I’m only wondering if Ballard would be willing to pay that price?

 

That’s the great unknown question....

[danlhart87]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m not saying it can’t be beat.   I’m only wondering if Ballard would be willing to pay that price?

 

That’s the great unknown question....

I would rather him keep picks. He's proven he does well in the draft. 

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I would rather him keep picks. He's proven he does well in the draft. 

Understood.

 

But sooner or later, Ballard will likely have to sacrifice his coveted picks.   Either in a trade for a veteran, or a trade up for a rookie.  It’s hard to see a scenario where Ballard fixes the QB position without trading picks. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

49 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m not saying it can’t be beat.   I’m only wondering if Ballard would be willing to pay that price?

 

That’s the great unknown question....

Oh yeah, Ballard may look at a post like mine and laugh but I am hoping he has a gameplan. I am sure he does. He is a solid GM.

[danlhart87]

https://heavy.com/sports/las-vegas-raiders/deshaun-watson-trade-derek-carr-mariota/

 

Do 3 team trades even happen?

[poilucelt]

4 hours ago, BProland85 said:

I’ve never heard of that. Doesn’t seem fair across the board for other teams losing coordinators. 

it's basically a "fig leaf" for the lack of success w/ the "Rooney rule"

[Gigc]

Can't think of one in football. Trying to remember if the Colt trade for Dickerson was.

[poilucelt]

4 hours ago, w87r said:

I'm really not against rolling with Eason, if it comes down to it.

 

1. We will know if he gives us a potential future at QB.

2. Will allow us to build a solid team around him, as he is cheap.

3. If he fails, then we will most likely have pretty good draft positioning.

4. I think he has all the traits of Josh Allen coming into the league.

 

So if all else fails let @skinnyqb10 roll. 

anyone who has ever watched both Eason and Allen run would have to conclude that Jacob doesn't have all the traits of Josh Allen

[w87r]

34 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

https://heavy.com/sports/las-vegas-raiders/deshaun-watson-trade-derek-carr-mariota/

 

Do 3 team trades even happen?

Not the worse fall back option I have ever seen.

 

Would be cap hits of:

2021 - $19.6

2022 - $19.8

 

And only losing 3rd and 4th.... Not bad.

 

Wouldn't say they are common, but Eric Dickerson came to Indy in a 3 team trade.

 

https://www.profootballhof.com/football-history/trick-or-trade/#:~:text=Blockbuster Trade on Halloween 1987,Fame running back Eric Dickerson.

 

 

19 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

anyone who has ever watched both Eason and Allen run would have to conclude that Jacob doesn't have all the traits of Josh Allen

Definitely not all the traits, but a lot of similarities.

[poilucelt]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I can beat it, offer them our 21st pick this year which is a 1st rounder and this years 3rd and next years 2nd being in 22. We still would be ok regarding the draft. We would have picks 2 and 4-7 this year and next year would have our 1st and 3-7 + Stafford.

got a feeling that this trade may hinge at least as much on where Stafford most wants to go as it does on how much draft capital is involved

[poilucelt]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Same guy who said it was done 9 hours ago...

maybe Mrs. Stafford had 2nd thoughts about moving to, and living in, the illustrious state of California

[danlhart87]

Just now, poilucelt said:

maybe Mrs. Stafford had 2nd thoughts about moving to, and living in, the illustrious state of California

She can come to Indy 

She's hot

 

[poilucelt]

3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

She can come to Indy 

She's hot

 

they could probably find a nice mansion on Geist Reservoir or up in Zionsville for the price of an unfurnished 1-bedroom condo in the Bay area

[EastStreet]

18 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

She can come to Indy 

She's hot

 

Very.

She reminds me a bit of Lane Kitten's wife.

[yankeeclipper]

Stafford is the best of the veteran QBs' on the market and makes sense. I hate the likely cost as we need to hit good on the draft to keep building this team.   I sense we have to give up our #1 this year and I can see us  giving up a #2 or #3 next year. Stafford would make this team better and provide stability while we see if Eason is an heir apparent or we need to look into a future draft for a QB. 

 

I would not be shocked If Colts think the price is too high or they get scooped by another team that we bring JB back as a starter and instead we look at the draft for an opportunity to draft Jones (would likely have to trade ups few slots.  I am not sure JB would improve the team but  he would have a better surrounding cast over what he had in 2019 . It may be enough to keep us as a playoff level team but probably not enough to get us to the SB.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[w87r]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

Chloe, I have to admit. I am on the edge of my seat with every post you make when a tweet is about to pop up.

 

 

I'm like, "Is this going to be the one?"

 

I don't have social media so this is where my tweets come from

[Smoke317]

I was reading the comments of Detroit Lions fans who thinks that the Lions are using the 49ers (and maybe now the Rams) rumors to push up the price for Stafford.  They seem to think that we’ll (Colts) eventually have to give up 2 Firsts (this year’s and next year’s) minimum to get him.  I just can’t get behind giving up 2 firsts for Stafford.  I’d definitely rather move up in the draft if it’s gonna cost that much.  Also why would Stafford want us to bring him in but give up way too many resources that could be used to draft talented players to help him win while here?

[The Fish]

Seeing more Feilds chatter.

 

Not into it at all.. Just watching him throw the ball.. That's not a motion that's going to work at the next level. 

 

I know some of you are going to say "what the heck do you know" and fair enough. I'm telling you what I know. That motion.... it's not going to work.

[Smoke317]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

Seeing more Feilds chatter.

 

Not into it at all.. Just watching him throw the ball.. That's not a motion that's going to work at the next level. 

 

I know some of you are going to say "what the heck do you know" and fair enough. I'm telling you what I know. That motion.... it's not going to work.

Where you seeing the chatter?  And what specifically don’t you like about his motion?  I would like to check it out some more?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Seeing more Feilds chatter.

 

Not into it at all.. Just watching him throw the ball.. That's not a motion that's going to work at the next level. 

 

I know some of you are going to say "what the heck do you know" and fair enough. I'm telling you what I know. That motion.... it's not going to work.

A good QB coach would fix that. He was one of the most accurate deep ball passers in college.

[The Fish]

2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Where you seeing the chatter?  And what specifically don’t you like about his motion?  I would like to check it out some more?

The Blog no one likes for one. Twitter also.

 

Dude drops his arm and throws parallel to his body. He hangs out in the pocket, isn't a quick decision guy and uses that long side wind motion. At the pro level, you need to be over the top imo, unless your Rivers and the ball is snapped and out. 

Eason's ball looks 100 times better than Fields. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Where you seeing the chatter?  And what specifically don’t you like about his motion?  I would like to check it out some more?

Kevin Bowen and JMV have both mentioned they have heard the colts really like Fields.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I was reading the comments of Detroit Lions fans who thinks that the Lions are using the 49ers (and maybe now the Rams) rumors to push up the price for Stafford.  They seem to think that we’ll (Colts) eventually have to give up 2 Firsts (this year’s and next year’s) minimum to get him.  I just can’t get behind giving up 2 firsts for Stafford.  I’d definitely rather move up in the draft if it’s gonna cost that much.

Lawrence and Wilson are likely going 1 and 2, so Lance is the only one left that I'd be willing to "go get". It would likely take our #21, plus next year's 1st, and likely our 2nd this year or next to get up to #5 to get Lance. 

 

The reports are the 49ers have offered 2x2R and 2x3R. They have #43 and #108 (so not really even a 3rd), and would give up next year's, let's just say estimating 50 and 80.... 

 

Our 21 and 54 = 1160 capital

Their 43, 108, 50, and 80 = 1138

 

So the value is the near the same.

 

It would likely be our 2nd next year, but 54 is a good estimation for next year.

 

So do you want to give up this year's first and 2nd, and next year's first for Lance.... Or This year's first and next year's second for Stafford? I'll take the surer thing (Stafford) and keep the 1st rounder next year. 

[The Fish]

The photo of Fields in the stampede blue article has that motion on full display.

 

I fully expect a few people to tell me I'm full of it. That's fine. He looked good at Ohio State (which can't be ignored either, playing with better guys around him than most every other squad that played). He could certainly improve. He has intangibles. 

 

I'm just a believer that the QB's job ultimately is to throw the ball, accurately, on time and with a degree of catchability (which is subjective, because we're not the WRs).  

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

A good QB coach would fix that. He was one of the most accurate deep ball passers in college.

He was good vs lesser schools. He also had very, very good and fast WRs. 

Still, IU picked him 3 times, and NW picked him twice.

 

Trying to fix a throwing motion isn't easy. 

[Smoke317]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

He was good vs lesser schools. He also had very, very good and fast WRs. 

Still, IU picked him 3 times, and NW picked him twice.

 

Trying to fix a throwing motion isn't easy. 

What top QB didn’t have good receivers.  Facts are that none of Fields’ receivers from his 2 years of playing will have been drafted in the first 4 rounds.  None.  So how great were they really?  Not saying they weren’t good but they weren’t the talent that Jones, Tua, Burrow, or Lawrence were throwing to.  Also, I’ve seen nothing wrong with his throwing motion. Fields was also a baseball star in high school so he has the ability to drop his arm angle and make side arm or 3/4 delivery throws when necessary.  I’ve seen Mahomes, Murray, Russell, and Zach Wilson make those kind of throws a lot.

 

As for the struggles against IU & NW, not an excuse but take away the fluff conferences and both teams ranked top 10 in the nation in defense.  Better defensively than anyone Wilson or Lawrence faced this year.  IU game he looked pretty bad.  I think he was pressing trying to stay in the Heisman race.  Still accounted for nearly 400 yards of offense and 3 TD’s.  NW he had an injured thumb on his throwing hand.  Regardless, he played sub par in both but followed up with great performances.  
 

I’m gonna do some more research on his throwing motion though because from all the games I’ve been watching his arm talent to all levels of the field has been electric.  He has a much better release than Lawrence IMO.  Lawrence has a long wind up and the ball doesn’t jump off his hands compared to similarly built guys like Allen or Herbert.  Wilson has a pretty wild (in a good way) delivery.  He can make all the off platform throws like the others I mentioned above.  But I noticed in some games he went to the side arm delivery unnecessarily at times.  But the ball definitely jumps off his hand better than Lawrence.  Probably even better than Fields too but not by much and I still don’t know of his arm is overall stronger than Fields’ but they’re close. 

[Smoke317]

45 minutes ago, The Fish said:

The Blog no one likes for one. Twitter also.

 

Dude drops his arm and throws parallel to his body. He hangs out in the pocket, isn't a quick decision guy and uses that long side wind motion. At the pro level, you need to be over the top imo, unless your Rivers and the ball is snapped and out. 

Eason's ball looks 100 times better than Fields. 

I thought all the new rave was the QB’s with baseball backgrounds making the off platform (side arm or 3/4 delivery) throws?  We’ve seen Mahomes, Murray, & Wilson make them.  Wilson in this years draft makes them all the time.  Fields was a star baseball player in high school so I’ve seen him drop his arm down to make those off platform throws.  That’s not something to hold against him.  
 

As for speeding up his processing and being a 1st read QB...  I’ve seen that from all the QB’s that will be drafted.  I haven’t seen one of them stand back there and consistently read through to their 3rd progression while navigating the pocket.  Most of what I saw from all was 1st read throws.  They all can manipulate the safety with their eyes but that’s not the same as going through multiple progressions. I’ve seen them all struggle with pressure and hold the ball too long when the 1st read wasn’t there.  
 

That’s a young QB problem (Even Lawrence & Wilson) not just a Fields problem.   Also Fields has completed 70% of his throws for his career. That sounds like either he’s very accurate or he makes quicker decisions then given credit for and gets it out of his hands.  And Ohio State is no more stacked comparatively than Clemson, Alabama, LSU last year or the cupcakes Wilson faced playing with BYU this year.  Put Fields (I’d argue the same or similar with Lawrence or Wilson) on the Colts and he’ll be the star of this draft.

[The Fish]

35 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I thought all the new rave was the QB’s with baseball backgrounds making the off platform (side arm or 3/4 delivery) throws?  We’ve seen Mahomes, Murray, & Wilson make them.  Wilson in this years draft makes them all the time.  Fields was a star baseball player in high school so I’ve seen him drop his arm down to make those off platform throws.  That’s not something to hold against him.  
 

As for speeding up his processing and being a 1st read QB...  I’ve seen that from all the QB’s that will be drafted.  I haven’t seen one of them stand back there and consistently read through to their 3rd progression while navigating the pocket.  Most of what I saw from all was 1st read throws.  They all can manipulate the safety with their eyes but that’s not the same as going through multiple progressions. I’ve seen them all struggle with pressure and hold the ball too long when the 1st read wasn’t there.  
 

That’s a young QB problem (Even Lawrence & Wilson) not just a Fields problem.   Also Fields has completed 70% of his throws for his career. That sounds like either he’s very accurate or he makes quicker decisions then given credit for and gets it out of his hands.  And Ohio State is no more stacked comparatively than Clemson, Alabama, LSU last year or the cupcakes Wilson faced playing with BYU this year.  Put Fields (I’d argue the same or similar with Lawrence or Wilson) on the Colts and he’ll be the star of this draft.

Well, with the guys you mentioned who do some of this, none of them use that skill uniformly. All of them can throw a perfectly placed ball, in a clean pocket.  This would be a pro for Fields, the less than stellar mechanics are usually utilized when a play breaks down, so pocket mechanics at that point aren't so important. But when a QB is hanging out in the pocket, doing the side arm, baseball-esq delivery for most guys is an iffy proposition. It's not small part of why Lamar Jackson isn't a good passer for example. Tebow was stuck in this kind of thing- drastic example, but throwing motion's aren't a small issue, even if it is nit picky for folks like me to muse about it.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It does seem like SF is trying everything not to up have to give up that 12th pick. Or lions are trying to squeeze more out of the colts. SF don’t have as much cap space as the colts. There oline isn’t as good either.  From what I have read they have some pretty important players to resign also. Their QB situation isn’t nearly as bad as the colts. It’s not a necessity for them. Which could be why they are trying to get more out of the colts. The colts are in a pretty desperate situation.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I don’t buy this.

 

 

[Smoke317]

18 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Well, with the guys you mentioned who do some of this, none of them use that skill uniformly. All of them can throw a perfectly placed ball, in a clean pocket.  This would be a pro for Fields, the less than stellar mechanics are usually utilized when a play breaks down, so pocket mechanics at that point aren't so important. But when a QB is hanging out in the pocket, doing the side arm, baseball-esq delivery for most guys is an iffy proposition. It's not small part of why Lamar Jackson isn't a good passer for example. Tebow was stuck in this kind of thing- drastic example, but throwing motion's aren't a small issue, even if it is nit picky for folks like me to muse about it.

I’m gonna look more into that.  I remember a guy like Winston had accuracy problems because he pitched in baseball (while still playing football) and he was carrying over some of those mechanics to the football field and it was affecting his accuracy.  Fields has been one of the most accurate passers in NCAA history.  So I don’t know if his accuracy is affected like Winston’s.  This will give me more things to watch for as I check out more game film of Lawrence, Fields, & Wilson.  Helps keep this off-season interesting. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t buy this.

 

 

Basically he could go anywhere lol. 

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

I was reading the comments of Detroit Lions fans who thinks that the Lions are using the 49ers (and maybe now the Rams) rumors to push up the price for Stafford.  They seem to think that we’ll (Colts) eventually have to give up 2 Firsts (this year’s and next year’s) minimum to get him.  I just can’t get behind giving up 2 firsts for Stafford.  I’d definitely rather move up in the draft if it’s gonna cost that much.  Also why would Stafford want us to bring him in but give up way too many resources that could be used to draft talented players to help him win while here?

That would be an awful trade. Give up your two best chances to get cost-controlled impact talent AND then pay Stafford $30M/year for some length of team to marginally improve the passing game.
 

Seriously...I love Stafford’s arm talent...but I don’t see how he is a huge upgrade over what they got from Rivers last year.

 

And while I am sure not a popular opinion...SF is much closer to being the type of team that could plug in a QB like Stafford and win a SB. 
 

For the Colts, it’s going to be very difficult to add weapons or talent via FA trades if they get Stafford. If they are giving up (2) 1st round picks....then add enough to do that to trade up. A franchise QB on a rookie deal not only has more upside...it saves a ton of money ~$80-100M over the first 4 seasons. 

[shasta519]

32 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I’m gonna look more into that.  I remember a guy like Winston had accuracy problems because he pitched in baseball (while still playing football) and he was carrying over some of those mechanics to the football field and it was affecting his accuracy.  Fields has been one of the most accurate passers in NCAA history.  So I don’t know if his accuracy is affected like Winston’s.  This will give me more things to watch for as I check out more game film of Lawrence, Fields, & Wilson.  Helps keep this off-season interesting. 

I recommend watching Wilson...I think he is going to be great. The Josh Allen comps are cliche...but he has that level of game.

 

And he’s already accurate...he completed 73.5% of his passes this season. And he was doing it on deep passes and tight windows. His AY/A was 12.6 yards lol. 
 

He had a huge jump in accuracy this past season...at age 21. Josh Allen was 24 when he made the leap (albeit against NFL competition) to being a superstar QB and passer.
 

Wilson turns 22 when his rookie season starts...22 I think he could step in and win games right away...and take this team to a SB by age 24. His overall skill set gives him top 5 QB upside...and that’s what the Colts should be gunning for...if they are willing to trade draft capital for a QB.

His contract is far cheaper and he has more upside than Stafford.

 

I am biased...but he is absolutely the guy to get...and I hope Ballard is all over him. The only downside is the shoulder injuries...yet he somehow got better after having them.