Qb for next year/QB class of 2021 (merge)

[Chloe6124 9,802]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

If I were Stafford and Condon, I'd be having a party tonight. So many good things about getting out of Detroit.

 

Hope we get him. My dark horse destinations are DAL,, HOU, and ATL. If Watson doesn't go to Miami, add them into the mix. TB if Tom retires.

Dallas could be a dark horse with him being from Texas. That’s all good because then Dak is available. I guess it would depend on if he wants to deal with the drama. He would be cheaper then Dak but not sure if it’s a upgrade.

[colts89 61]

If not Stafford, then Hurts might be on the cheap (no more than a 3rd) atm if Frank and the team liked what they saw from him and the Eagles want to clear out that pick made by Doug P. I can't say we dont have connections to make that deal either

[Chloe6124 9,802]

Could Rivers have decided to retire because he knew that at his age the colts would be looking for a upgrade.

 

 

[danlhart87 7,354]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Dallas could be a dark horse with him being from Texas. That’s all good because then Dak is available. I guess it would depend on if he wants to deal with the drama. He would be cheaper then Dak but not sure if it’s a upgrade.

Dak will want far too much money 

[EastStreet 9,199]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Dallas could be a dark horse with him being from Texas. That’s all good because then Dak is available. I guess it would depend on if he wants to deal with the drama. He would be cheaper then Dak but not sure if it’s a upgrade.

No thanks on Dak. Let someone else overpay for him.

[danlhart87 7,354]

19 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

No thanks on Dak. Let someone else overpay for him.

Agreed. 

Someone else can give him 40m

[EastStreet 9,199]

14 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Agreed. 

Someone else can give him 40m

I could easily see him being 2021's Wentz without a great OL and great WRs.

[jvan1973 5,307]

7 hours ago, richard pallo said:

For sure.  Mrs. Ford would not do that to him.

Players are commodities.   The team will get the most they can

[stitches 7,983]

My thoughts on trading for Stafford are crystalizing a bit... I've stated before that my favorite option is going to the draft trying to get your QB of the future, BUT ... If you go for Stafford, IMO you need to go all in. It should not be the final big move of the off-season if we get Stafford. You move money around and you do everything you can do to get:

- Allen Robinson or Godwin or Kenny Golladay.

- a legitimate DE in FA or trade

- Rhodes back + maybe even one more corner.

 

It might become tight money wise but IMO you cannot go the Stafford route and do it halfway. You either go all the way or don't even try it... Just go get a QB from the draft and build around him for the future. We will have about 2 year window with Stafford on reasonable contract and we need to use that window...

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan 8,263]

10 minutes ago, stitches said:

My thoughts on trading for Stafford are crystalizing a bit... I've stated before that my favorite option is going to the draft trying to get your QB of the future, BUT ... If you go for Stafford, IMO you need to go all in. It should not be the final big move of the off-season if we get Stafford. You move money around and you do everything you can do to get:

- Allen Robinson or Godwin or Kenny Golladay.

- a legitimate DE in FA or trade

- Rhodes back + maybe even one more corner.

 

It might become tight money wise but IMO you cannot go the Stafford route and do it halfway. You either go all the way or don't even try it... Just go get a QB from the draft and build around him for the future. We will have about 2 year window with Stafford on reasonable contract and we need to use that window...

 

 

 

Odds are you can’t do all that because the salary cap is going down roughly $15-20 million. 
 

We’re likely going to need more time.   I don’t understand the 2-year window reference?   Stafford likely has 5+ years left.   With a GM like Ballard, our window should remain open longer than that. 

[stitches 7,983]

15 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Odds are you can’t do all that because the salary cap is going down roughly $15-20 million. 
 

We’re likely going to need more time.   I don’t understand the 2-year window reference...   He likely has 5+ years left.   With a GM like Ballard, our window should remain open longer than that. 

He is 33 and has 2 years left on reasonable contract. After that you will have to give him a contract in the realm of what other top QBs are getting now and he will be getting older... So you will either have to pay big or lose him and this is while all our young pieces are moving out of their rookie contracts... So we will start losing some of them. So IMO IF we get Stafford this will be the golden window to try to go all in...  Use Stafford's best remaining years at the best contract you will have him at, to try to surround him with best talent we can get while our young player are still cheap. Later he will be older/worse on worse contract and our young studs we either be paid much more (less money to get reinforcement elsewhere) or will be gone. 

 

So... Go all in NOW. This doesn't mean you concede the later years, but IMO the best chance we have are the next 2 years if we get Stafford. This is legitimate Superbowl contender if we can get one of the top receivers, a very good pass-rusher and some solid CBs. 

[NewColtsFan 8,263]

33 minutes ago, stitches said:

He is 33 and has 2 years left on reasonable contract. After that you will have to give him a contract in the realm of what other top QBs are getting now and he will be getting older... So you will either have to pay big or lose him and this is while all our young pieces are moving out of their rookie contracts... So we will start losing some of them. So IMO IF we get Stafford this will be the golden window to try to go all in...  Use Stafford's best remaining years at the best contract you will have him at, to try to surround him with best talent we can get while our young player are still cheap. Later he will be older/worse on worse contract and our young studs we either be paid much more (less money to get reinforcement elsewhere) or will be gone. 

 

So... Go all in NOW. This doesn't mean you concede the later years, but IMO the best chance we have are the next 2 years if we get Stafford. This is legitimate Superbowl contender if we can get one of the top receivers, a very good pass-rusher and some solid CBs. 

Stafford has been very public about his number one goal:   Winning.   (His words, not mine).

 

He’s not going to want to leave because we want to pay him $25m instead of $30+ million.   The Colts give Stafford the best chance of winning.   Period.  Leaving the Colts for a money grab would be the worst look possible for him.  I don’t see that as a worry.  Honestly. 
 

My bigger concern is the cost in draft picks to acquire him.  There may be a bidding war, which could prove very expensive.   At some point, I could see Ballard dropping out.   We will likely know in the next 6 weeks. 

[stitches 7,983]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Stafford has been very public about his number one goal:   Winning.   (His words, not mine).

 

He’s not going to want to leave because we want to pay him $25m instead of $30+ million.   The Colts give Stafford the best chance of winning.   Period.  Leaving the Colts for a money grab would be the worst look possible for him.  I don’t see that as a worry.  Honestly. 
 

My bigger worry is the cost in draft picks to acquire him.  There may be a bidding war, which could prove very expensive.   At some point, I could see Ballard dropping out.   We will likely know in the next 6 weeks. 

I mean... everybody says that and right now maybe we are the best option for him, but would that be the same in 2 years time? Who knows... 

 

About the pick compensation - yes, I would really hope Ballard doesn't go into a bidding war with other teams. Have a firm price set and don't go over it. 1st and 3d is about the max I would be willing to give for 33 year old Stafford. 

[danlhart87 7,354]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

My thoughts on trading for Stafford are crystalizing a bit... I've stated before that my favorite option is going to the draft trying to get your QB of the future, BUT ... If you go for Stafford, IMO you need to go all in. It should not be the final big move of the off-season if we get Stafford. You move money around and you do everything you can do to get:

- Allen Robinson or Godwin or Kenny Golladay.

- a legitimate DE in FA or trade

- Rhodes back + maybe even one more corner.

 

It might become tight money wise but IMO you cannot go the Stafford route and do it halfway. You either go all the way or don't even try it... Just go get a QB from the draft and build around him for the future. We will have about 2 year window with Stafford on reasonable contract and we need to use that window...

 

 

 

There's no sense in throwing all your eggs into 1 basket. Chances are if Stafford comes over and takes up 20m of the cap Colts are probably not gonna do much else.

[#12. 1,063]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

My thoughts on trading for Stafford are crystalizing a bit... I've stated before that my favorite option is going to the draft trying to get your QB of the future, BUT ... If you go for Stafford, IMO you need to go all in. It should not be the final big move of the off-season if we get Stafford. You move money around and you do everything you can do to get:

- Allen Robinson or Godwin or Kenny Golladay.

- a legitimate DE in FA or trade

- Rhodes back + maybe even one more corner.

 

It might become tight money wise but IMO you cannot go the Stafford route and do it halfway. You either go all the way or don't even try it... Just go get a QB from the draft and build around him for the future. We will have about 2 year window with Stafford on reasonable contract and we need to use that window...

 

 

 

I get what you're saying contract wise, but in listening to him, I don't believe Ballard thinks like that.  Stafford is young enough to where, if you acquire him, he's your QB for the foreseeable future.  It's another 7 seasons until he's Rivers' age.  Seven years is a lifetime in the NFL.  I assume Ballard will just keep building and doing what he's doing.  

[stitches 7,983]

51 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

There's no sense in throwing all your eggs into 1 basket. Chances are if Stafford comes over and takes up 20m of the cap Colts are probably not gonna do much else.

If Stafford comes and we don't do much else, we are not much better than this season. Especially if we lose some of our FAs. If we are going for win-now moves, go all the way(within reason of course), don't half-* it. We need legitimate improvements at WR, DE, CB(and now LT needs addressing)...  what we had this year won't do it, even with Stafford. 

 

 

Argh! This is frustrating... way too many positions of value to address. The more I think about it the less sense it makes to me to go for Stafford. Just go get your QB from the draft... 

[danlhart87 7,354]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

If Stafford comes and we don't do much else, we are not much better than this season. Especially if we lose some of our FAs. If we are going for win-now moves, go all the way(within reason of course), don't half-* it. We need legitimate improvements at WR, DE, CB(and now LT needs addressing)...  what we had this year won't do it, even with Stafford. 

 

 

Argh! This is frustrating... way too many positions of value to address. The more I think about it the less sense it makes to me to go for Stafford. Just go get your QB from the draft... 

That's the problem though. If it doesn't work out then you are screwing yourself over when it comes to bringing some of our own greats back. Stafford will help tremendously and I think even with him Colts sign 1 more FA that isn't currently on team but don't expect them to light it up and sign 3 top dogs. 

 

 

[stitches 7,983]

3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

That's the problem though. If it doesn't work out then you are screwing yourself over when it comes to bringing some of our own greats back. Stafford will help tremendously and I think even with him Colts sign 1 more FA that isn't currently on team but don't expect them to light it up and sign 3 top dogs. 

 

 

Maybe not 3 top dogs, but like... 1 premier FA and 2 above average. 

[krunk 4,168]

If Ballard obtains Stafford im sure he has his plan in place. Hes not going to do anything thats detrimental to the team. As usual he has his numbers that hed like to play ball at and if it gets beyond that he will move on to plan B. Im actually not all that opposed to Darnold if it happened. I think Reich could do something with him. Darnolds never had much when it comes to personnel. Offensive line hasnt been good, running game mediocre and so has the coaching. I like what Frank was able to do with Wentz and Foles.

[chad72 7,114]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

If Stafford comes and we don't do much else, we are not much better than this season. Especially if we lose some of our FAs. If we are going for win-now moves, go all the way(within reason of course), don't half-* it. We need legitimate improvements at WR, DE, CB(and now LT needs addressing)...  what we had this year won't do it, even with Stafford. 

 

 

Argh! This is frustrating... way too many positions of value to address. The more I think about it the less sense it makes to me to go for Stafford. Just go get your QB from the draft... 

 

The issue with that is the draft capital would have to be spent even if we were to move up to get a QB of your choice that could be rated as a franchise QB. If we get a wide receiver in free agency, most likely TY is gone.

All the failures to hit on the pass rushers in the draft is going to have a carryover effect because there’s only so much money and draft capital  to go around. Otherwise we would not even be talking about bringing Houston back. We have to hope that a few good pass rushers drop just a bit in the second round. Also we may have to play free agency for both the wide receiver position and get the Pittsburgh offensive tackle in free agency, Villanueva.

 

If we get Stafford, getting a wide receiver and an offensive tackle in free agency seems to be the best balance of using draft capital and free agency money.

[w87r 4,993]

19 minutes ago, krunk said:

If Ballard obtains Stafford im sure he has his plan in place. Hes not going to do anything thats detrimental to the team. As usual he has his numbers that hed like to play ball at and if it gets beyond that he will move on to plan B. Im actually not all that opposed to Darnold if it happened. I think Reich could do something with him. 

And if we miss out on Stafford and Watson does get traded to Jets(his #1 preferred option), Darnold will be available, because Houston will be taking QB at #2 so doubt Darnold is included in the deal.

[krunk 4,168]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

The issue with that is the draft capital would have to be spent even if we were to move up to get a QB of your choice that could be rated as a franchise QB. If we get a wide receiver in free agency, most likely TY is gone.

All the failures to hit on the pass rushers in the draft is going to have a carryover effect because there’s only so much money and draft capital  to go around. Otherwise we would not even be talking about bringing Houston back. We have to hope that a few good pass rushers drop just a bit in the second round. Also we may have to play free agency for both the wide receiver position and get the Pittsburgh offensive tackle in free agency, Villanueva.

 

If we get Stafford, getting a wide receiver and an offensive tackle in free agency seems to be the best balance of using draft capital and free agency money.

And do we know for sure how serious thry are about moving Nelson to Tackle.

[w87r 4,993]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

Otherwise we would not even be talking about bringing Houston back

Why not?

 

He had a very good season.

[chad72 7,114]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

And if we miss out on Stafford and Watson does get traded to Jets(his #1 preferred option), Darnold will be available, because Houston will be taking QB at #2 so doubt Darnold is included in the deal.

Do the Patriots have the salary cap room to pursue Stafford?

[chad72 7,114]

Just now, w87r said:

Why not?

 

He had a very good season.

If Lewis, Turay and Banogu all had developed into bonafide starters, we probably would have let him go, IMO

[BProland85 1,385]

11 hours ago, colts89 said:

If not Stafford, then Hurts might be on the cheap (no more than a 3rd) atm if Frank and the team liked what they saw from him and the Eagles want to clear out that pick made by Doug P. I can't say we dont have connections to make that deal either

I would much rather acquire Hurts via a 2nd or 3rd then give up a 1st for Stafford. 

[w87r 4,993]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

Do the Patriots have the salary cap room to pursue Stafford?

Patriots have $54m in cap space (#4 overall)

 

57 guys under contract.

 

 

They have plenty of cap space to pursue, also have the #15 pick

 

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

If Lewis, Turay and Banogu all had developed into bonafide starters, we probably would have let him go, IMO

Maybe, but it is tough to let a guy go who is still playing at the level Houston still is. Hopefully he is back.

 

Lewis played better this year, Turay was injured but I think still has very good potential. Banogu, jury is still out, not looking to promising at the moment, but that doesn't mean he won't progress this season.

[Chloe6124 9,802]

Rhodes and a WR I think in FA. Then sign Autry and if you can sign Houston. That should upgrade and keep some consistency.  AQM shouldn’t cost much. Bring back Carrie for corner depth.  We should be able to do those few moves. I don’t think we can keep TY and upgrade in FA. So a decision has to be made. 

 

Forgot about a tackle. Tackle instead of Houston. Autry is more important because he can play Buckner role if he gets injured.

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

Patriots have $54m in cap space (#4 overall)

 

57 guys under contract.

 

 

They have plenty of cap space to pursue, also have the #15 pick

 

Maybe, but it is tough to let a guy go who is still playing at the level Houston still is. Hopefully he is back.

 

Lewis played better this year, Turay was injured but I think still has very good potential. Banogu, jury is still out, not looking to promising at the moment, but that doesn't mean he won't progress this season.

Patricia is back with the pats and they are rebuilding. I doubt he goes there.

[w87r 4,993]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Rhodes and a WR I think in FA. Then sign Autry and if you can sign Houston. That should upgrade and keep some consistency.  AQM shouldn’t cost much. Bring back Carrie for corner depth.  We should be able to do those few moves. I don’t think we can keep TY and upgrade in FA. So a decision has to be made. 

Patricia is back with the pats and they are rebuilding. I doubt he goes there.

I don't think he does either just answering Chad's question.

[chad72 7,114]

17 minutes ago, krunk said:

And do we know for sure how serious thry are about moving Nelson to Tackle.

I have no idea.

 

If giving up Darius Leonard and a 3rd rounder for Stafford is brought up, would you do it? Detroit wants young defensive players, that’s a certainty.

[Chloe6124 9,802]

I think we need a upgrade at DE but I don’t think we need it as much as people think. If we had scored just a tiny bit more we win the bills game. So just upgrading the offense might make a DE mute.  Sign back Autry and hopefully Turay gets fully healthy. 

 

We have to be careful with Rhodes. His age and would be a concern with giving him to much. With the cap going down there might be some players we can get on one year deals at a good value because they want to wait for the cap to go up.

[chad72 7,114]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

I think we need a upgrade at DE but I don’t think we need it as much as people think. If we had scored just a tiny bit more we win the bills game. So just upgrading the offense might make a DE mute.  Sign back Autry and hopefully Turay gets fully healthy. 

 

We have to be careful with Rhodes. His age and would be a concern with giving him to much. With the cap going down there might be some players we can get on one year deals at a good value because they want to wait for the cap to go up.

That’s a good point. Rhodes might just need the guaranteed portion of the 1 year deal sweetened.

[danlhart87 7,354]

16 minutes ago, chad72 said:

I have no idea.

 

If giving up Darius Leonard and a 3rd rounder for Stafford is brought up, would you do it? Detroit wants young defensive players, that’s a certainty.

Yes 

Without a doubt

[indykmj 82]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Stafford has been very public about his number one goal:   Winning.   (His words, not mine).

 

He’s not going to want to leave because we want to pay him $25m instead of $30+ million.   The Colts give Stafford the best chance of winning.   Period.  Leaving the Colts for a money grab would be the worst look possible for him.  I don’t see that as a worry.  Honestly. 
 

My bigger concern is the cost in draft picks to acquire him.  There may be a bidding war, which could prove very expensive.   At some point, I could see Ballard dropping out.   We will likely know in the next 6 weeks. 

 

  I'd say that SF is as ready or more ready to win BIG right now than the Colts are. 

[Chloe6124 9,802]

Golladay is about the same size as Pittman so I am not sure we would need another WR that size. So maybe it would just be smarter to bring TY back. 

 

Our WR would get much more open with Stafford having Taylor and Hines. If this happens I hope there is a offseason program. That would really be needed. 

2 minutes ago, indykmj said:

 

  I'd say that SF is as ready or more ready to win BIG right now than the Colts are. 

They have more offensive weapons too. 

[The Fish 1,133]

6 minutes ago, indykmj said:

 

  I'd say that SF is as ready or more ready to win BIG right now than the Colts are. 

I wouldn't

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Golladay is about the same size as Pittman so I am not sure we would need another WR that size. So maybe it would just be smarter to bring TY back. 

 

Our WR would get much more open with Stafford having Taylor and Hines. If this happens I hope there is a offseason program. That would really be needed. 

They have more offensive weapons too. 

They do?

 

I think your both underestimating what the Colts bring on paper

[bravo4460 521]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Golladay is about the same size as Pittman so I am not sure we would need another WR that size. So maybe it would just be smarter to bring TY back. 

 

Our WR would get much more open with Stafford having Taylor and Hines. If this happens I hope there is a offseason program. That would really be needed. 

They have more offensive weapons too. 

I don’t think it would be an issue whatsoever to have more than 1 guy Pittmans size. What happens when that big receiver gets hurt (Pittman misses 3 games last season).

 

Also, T.Y. Isn’t as fast as he used to be, honestly Pittman or other big WR may be faster at this point...
 

Colts need some weapons at WR. I like Pittman and Hilton is good. Pascal is average. After that.... not much. NEED more explosive playmakers in my opinion (Big or small).

[Chloe6124 9,802]

SF has a Star Tight end. Two young WR in Samual and Ayiuk. They have a good run game too. Although not as big of a star as Taylor or Hines. They have a higher draft pick. The only thing is they are in the NFC. They got the injury bug this season. They also have a great defense. 

[chad72 7,114]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

SF has a Star Tight end. Two young WR in Samual and Ayiuk. They have a good run game too. Although not as big of a star as Taylor or Hines. They have a higher draft pick. The only thing is they are in the NFC. They got the injury bug this season. They also have a great defense. 

Plus they have a big QB contract they want to unload if they trade for Stafford. I doubt the Lions take on Jimmy G.

[krunk 4,168]

27 minutes ago, chad72 said:

I have no idea.

 

If giving up Darius Leonard and a 3rd rounder for Stafford is brought up, would you do it? Detroit wants young defensive players, that’s a certainty.

Hasnt been Ballards practice. If they mean good value to us then Ballard usually keeps the player in house. Only trades ive seen him make are for draft picks or trading guys who are young but havent performed up to snuff. Or in the case of Henry Anderson a bad scheme fit.