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Qb for next year/QB class of 2021 (merge)


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14 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Thanks

 

Looking at it that way then no 

If we had Galloday, we'd be able to trade Pittman, and get a 2nd for him. Still, it would be tight on the cap.

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I love how good people are at reaching conclusions, based on absolutely no information at all.    First, we were definitely getting Stafford. Now, we're definitely not. (And we will definite

Stafford was always my #1 choice among veteran options. (He was my preferred choice last offseason, someone posted a poll and I picked him.)   I'M ALL IN ON STAFFORD YALL.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I think Stafford has four or five really good years left, and is playing well right now, so I have him ahead of Wentz. But he probably would cost more.

 

I don't want Darnold. For a late pick, sure, but in three years, he hasn't done anything in the NFL. I lean more toward him not ever being good.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say Matt Ryan goes nowhere. But physically, he can still play. Carr and Garappolo are good options, but have lower ceilings. No thanks on Mariota, Winston, or Brissett. I wouldn't even spend the staff's time on them as potential starters. I'd rather commit to one of your top three options and go get your guy.

Stafford may cost more cap than Wentz, but the Eagles reportedly will make the cost to trade undesirable for most teams.  Ballard doesn't seem to have a penchant for throwing mutiple high round picks for anything, much less a QB that we don't know whether he can return to his 2017 form.  His most high profile trade was a 1st (plus contract extension) for Buckner.  In terms of picks, it was simply player for pick.

 

I always liked the idea of Wentz with Reich in Indy.  I just don't want to give up multiple 1-3 round picks for him.  I mean if the Colts did acquire him somehow, I think if there's anyone that can get him to right the ship it's Wentz.  So I don't necessarily hate the idea, but I don't love it either.

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6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If traded, Stafford's cap hits would be $20m and $23m the next two seasons, assuming no new deal is signed.

That's close to Phil's pay. I dont think he would live up to that value. It's nice if he does and we can be competitive while finding our future QB. Maybe we are better off drafting a QB and using our picks and money to make a complete team to plug the right guy in when luck strikes.

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2 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Stafford may cost more cap than Wentz, but the Eagles reportedly will make the cost to trade undesirable for most teams.  Ballard doesn't seem to have a penchant for throwing mutiple high round picks for anything, much less a QB that we don't know whether he can return to his 2017 form.  His most high profile trade was a 1st (plus contract extension) for Buckner.  In terms of picks, it was simply player for pick.

 

I always liked the idea of Wentz with Reich in Indy.  I just don't want to give up multiple 1-3 round picks for him.  I mean if the Colts did acquire him somehow, I think if there's anyone that can get him to right the ship it's Wentz.  So I don't necessarily hate the idea, but I don't love it either.

 

I think Stafford's cap hit would be less than Wentz's, assuming no restructures for either. By cost, I meant the cost to trade for them.

 

To be clear, at this point, I think there's a 75% likelihood that Wentz stays, and probably a 60% likelihood that Stafford stays. 

 

As for Wentz, I would not trade premium picks for him. In fact, I don't think I'd trade for him unless the Eagles are sending back good draft compensation, because they are the team that's in cap hell, with a need to do something to figure out their QB room. That probably means that my theoretical front office wouldn't reach a deal with the Eagles for Wentz, and that's fine. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to add him, just that the cost for each team likely wouldn't work out. But I believe his issues are correctable, with the right coaching.

 

For Stafford, the Lions can probably get a premium pick for him. In that way, he would cost more to acquire.

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3 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

That's close to Phil's pay. I dont think he would live up to that value. It's nice if he does and we can be competitive while finding our future QB. Maybe we are better off drafting a QB and using our picks and money to make a complete team to plug the right guy in when luck strikes.

 

They had basically identical statistical output in 2020. Rivers was on a better team with better coaching and support, and probably peaked from a physical standpoint, whereas Stafford's output was probably an underperformance based on his physical ability.

 

There's little doubt in my mind that Stafford would live up to his contract if he were the Colts QB in 2021.

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18 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

Trask will be a day 2 pick

I disagree.  He's at a low right now because his terrible first quarter in his Bowl game is still fresh in everyone's mind.  But, we'll see where that stock is after the Senior Bowl and the last month leading up to the draft where everyone goes back to the tape...

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17 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If traded, Stafford's cap hits would be $20m and $23m the next two seasons, assuming no new deal is signed.

Still paying a lot in SBs lol I guess. 

Does he have a no trade clause? If so, I'd assume he'd want a new deal. 

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7 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Best option right now is rookie 

It would save plenty of money elsewhere 

Salary & draft capital are far less important than getting the right guy, especially to compete at a high level in 2021.

I doubt a rookie QB where we're picking will beat Mahomes,Allen, etc... that's if he can even get us in Big games.

Wentz/Stafford may be those guys?

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I think it’s time to just save the cap space and see what Eason has. 

 

Otherwise it’s trade for Wentz or Stafford. Foles could be in there too. Just start the clock with Eason and see what he has. Make Jacoby the backup and lets roll.

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Not that I think he’ll be available, but Stafford ain’t playing  10 years even if he is only 31. How quick people forget that he’s already been playing football for almost 11 years. Not every QB is playing until 38. He’s probably got 3 years left tops.

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15 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think it’s time to just save the cap space and see what Eason has. 

 

Otherwise it’s trade for Wentz or Stafford. Foles could be in there too. Just start the clock with Eason and see what he has. Make Jacoby the backup and lets roll.

Or draft a QB which is probably the best case scenario.  I know we haven't seen Eason, but Eason never took a snap and was on and off the active roster.  That's telltale sign enough for me that we should not expect only Eason and Brissett to battle for the starting job going into week 1.  We absolutely should acquire a QB outside of Eason and Brissett.

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If they can’t get a veteran they think will be able to lead them to a SB then it’s time for a mini offensive rebuild. Give the keys to Eason. Let TY go and draft another WR if one can’t be had in FA who is a upgrade to TY. Just start the clock and stop with the one year bandaids.

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1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Or draft a QB which is probably the best case scenario.  I know we haven't seen Eason, but Eason never took a snap and was on and off the active roster.  That's telltale sign enough for me that we should not expect only Eason and Brissett to battle for the starting job going into week 1.  We absolutely should acquire a QB outside of Eason and Brissett.

Here is the thing. We haven’t seen a snap from a rookie either. So what’s the difference with Eason. At least Eason was here a year and learned the playbook and from rivers. I doubt we will be in position to even get any of the top 4 QB. Not even a trade up. I would rather give Eason a shot then Jones or Trask.

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If they can’t get a veteran they think will be able to lead them to a SB then it’s time for a mini offensive rebuild. Give the keys to Eason. Let TY go and draft another WR if one can’t be had in FA who is a upgrade to TY. Just start the clock and stop with the one year bandaids.

 

IMO Ballard made it pretty clear we won’t be rolling with Eason next season. Just the way he talked about him, basically went “meh” when asked if he could be the backup.

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Some trade partners. Bengals, broncos, eagles. If Denver stays with lock that could be a spot if lance drops some. Same with the eagles if they stick with Wentz.  

 

What about Lock if Denver decides to move on. I don’t think they will because they had way to many injuries this year to move on from him.

10 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

IMO Ballard made it pretty clear we won’t be rolling with Eason next season. Just the way he talked about him, basically went “meh” when asked if he could be the backup.

He might not have a choice.

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51 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

They had basically identical statistical output in 2020. Rivers was on a better team with better coaching and support, and probably peaked from a physical standpoint, whereas Stafford's output was probably an underperformance based on his physical ability.

 

There's little doubt in my mind that Stafford would live up to his contract if he were the Colts QB in 2021.

Wow I just looked at Staffords stats, it hard to believe the Lions couldn't have finished with a better record. Stafford did better than I would have thought. 2017 wasnt so hot and '18 wasnt bad.

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Here is the thing. We haven’t seen a snap from a rookie either. So what’s the difference with Eason. At least Eason was here a year and learned the playbook and from rivers. I doubt we will be in position to even get any of the top 4 QB. Not even a trade up. I would rather give Eason a shot then Jones or Trask.

When I say "we" I mean you and me.  The difference is the coaches have worked with Eason and already know where he is at developmentally.  The activity with Eason is the Colts essentially saying, "Not only is he not good enough to be a backup to Rivers, we'd rather keep a 4th WR or special teams backups on the sidelines."  Can that guy improve over the offseason?  Sure.  But whatever shot they give Eason is at best time as a backup QB.  We already know the Colts do'nt want Brissett at the helm.  

 

Sure "we" collectively being us and the Colts staff, hasn't seen a rookie QB on take a snap until he actually does.  But you and I do'nt work with these players and project and development.  Colts staff does.  They know when a player is ready to start, backup, etc.  They're not just gonna put a guy on the field and cross their fingers.  If I'm right about how the Colts feel about Brissett/Eason, they're going to want to look at the draft class and hope they can bring in someone better than those two guys and hopefully their projections on the newer guy amounts to a competitive or better starting QB by week 1.

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4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Some trade partners. Bengals, broncos, eagles. If Denver stays with lock that could be a spot if lance drops some. Same with the eagles if they stick with Wentz.  

 

What about Lock if Denver decides to move on. I don’t think they will because they had way to many injuries this year to move on from him.

He might not have a choice.

Ballard will probably trade down actually lol

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I don’t even want to think about the regression a guy like Pittman would have if we brought Jacoby back to start. Eason would be in by the third game.

 

I really hope there is more of a offseason this year. Would hate to have another new QB with no off season.

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Just now, OffensivelyPC said:

Or draft a QB which is probably the best case scenario.  I know we haven't seen Eason, but Eason never took a snap and was on and off the active roster.  That's telltale sign enough for me that we should not expect only Eason and Brissett to battle for the starting job going into week 1.  We absolutely should acquire a QB outside of Eason and Brissett.

 

It really is. This team really needs to have a cheap QB...even if it requires extra future draft capital. That's the downside to paying elite non-QBs (especially at positions like C, G and WILL)...there has to be balance.

 

I look at this way...the Colts can spend $25-30M on a QB (probably along with some draft capital)...with little left to address other needs. OR they can spend ~$6M/year on an early 1st round QB (giving up a lot more draft capital) but still have cap space to address positions of need via other means.

 

Not to mention draft picks have cap space attached to them...so whatever future draft capital you give up will also save cap space. Obviously, that's not ideal...but this isn't an ideal situation either...so it's going to take some sacrifice. Colts aren't in a position to have a 2011 or 2017 now...so it's going to have be in the form of future draft capital OR players.

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t even want to think about the regression a guy like Pittman would have if we brought Jacoby back to start. Eason would be in by the third game.

 

I really hope there is more of a offseason this year. Would hate to have another new QB with no off season.

 

There is absolutely no way JB is the starter next season...so don't even give it a thought. 

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38 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Here is the thing. We haven’t seen a snap from a rookie either. So what’s the difference with Eason. At least Eason was here a year and learned the playbook and from rivers. I doubt we will be in position to even get any of the top 4 QB. Not even a trade up. I would rather give Eason a shot then Jones or Trask.

 

Because he's a Day 4 pick? You assume that all QB prospects are created equally.

 

Here's another way to look at it:

 

Eason is Nathan Peterman (2017 5th round pick for BUF) and a guy like Wilson is Josh Allen (2018 1st round pick for BUF). 

 

Or even better...Eason is Kevin Hogan (2016 5th round pick for KC) and a guy like Wilson is Mahomes (2017 1st round pick after trade up).

 

 

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18 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Because he's a Day 4 pick? You assume that all QB prospects are created equally.

 

Here's another way to look at it:

 

Eason is Nathan Peterman (2017 5th round pick for BUF) and a guy like Wilson is Josh Allen (2018 1st round pick for BUF). 

 

Or even better...Eason is Kevin Hogan (2016 5th round pick for KC) and a guy like Wilson is Mahomes (2017 1st round pick after trade up).

 

 

Day 2 round 4....sorry had to.

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1 hour ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Definitely might have to roll with him as the backup. But as a starter? I kinda doubt that’s even a viable option in Ballard’s mind.

Ballard refused to commit to him being a back up let alone starter. Eason is probably not playing this year either unless something really funky happens. 

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2 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

Best option right now is rookie 

It would save plenty of money elsewhere 

Except we won't win anything for a couple of years.  By that time IMO, our group here will be disperesed.  We won't be able to pay the line, Leonard, etc.  We could conceivably retool over that time and be as strong, but I wouldn't bank on that.

 

If we are going rookie, I'd rather see us trade some real assets and go ahead and rebuild the thing.  Reset the thing.

 

I hope we get a good vet.  Who that is and how we can afford the draft capital, I am just clueless.

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Except we won't win anything for a couple of years.  By that time IMO, our group here will be disperesed.  We won't be able to pay the line, Leonard, etc.  We could conceivably retool over that time and be as strong, but I wouldn't bank on that.

 

If we are going rookie, I'd rather see us trade some real assets and go ahead and rebuild the thing.  Reset the thing.

 

I hope we get a good vet.  Who that is and how we can afford the draft capital, I am just clueless.

 

 

 

Just playing devils advocate Mahomes was a Dee Forde offsides from going to the SB in his first year starting. If you have a good team around them it won’t take that long.

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5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Just playing devils advocate Mahomes was a Dee Forde offsides from going to the SB in his first year starting. If you have a good team around them it won’t take that long.

 

Mahomes huh?  

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10 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

If we get a Mahomes type then yeah.  

Nobody knew Mahomes was going to be that good or he would of went one.

 

This is a good video by cowherd. Something I didn’t even think of. It might require to trade up twice. Trade with a team say like the broncos at nine then a second trade up to the dolphins.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Nobody knew Mahomes was going to be that good or he would of went one.

 

This is a good video by cowherd. Something I didn’t even think of. It might require to trade up twice. Trade with a team say like the broncos at nine then a second trade up to the dolphins.

 

 

I bet Cowboys could be an option to trade up

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