Qb for next year/QB class of 2021 (merge)

[TimetobringDfence! 411]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

I would offer 3 1s and the maniac

I'd give up Nelson before Leonard. Heart and soul of team.

[TimetobringDfence! 411]

46 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Four 1st rounders looks impressive but Houston doesn't have a 1st or 2nd this year.  If I'm Houston I want more picks from this class to help replenish the roster.  If I remember correctly Ditka gave up an entire draft class to move up and draft Ricky Williams.  If a team wanted to get their attention that kind of offer would do it (all seven picks from this years class). You still might have to give up a player or future pick but who knows.  A team like the Colts could afford that for one year.  No draft class to pay would free up a little more money.  We could fill any holes on the team through FA and non drafted college players.  We already know there will be a lot of players getting released and we have the cap space.  So this is another bold way to get the prize.  

You may be right about wanting more picks now than later. I just know we would have to give a bit more to make it happen being an inner division deal.

[danlhart87 7,392]

8 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I'd give up Nelson before Leonard. Heart and soul of team.

That would be incredibly dumb 

Nelson single handedly made OL top 5

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Just now, danlhart87 said:

That would be incredibly dumb 

Nelson single handedly made OL top 5

Eeeh.... I disagree. The OLine was bottom 5 first 5 games of Nelson, when AC and Braden were not playing. 

 

In essence ... how we became from bottom 5 unit to... top... 10 lets say. We replaced 3 starters - this OLine became good when all of AC, Nelson, Kelly, Glow and Braden became starters. Nelson, Glow and Braden were the new starters. Now don't get me wrong, I love Nelson and he has a tremendous impact, but he didn't single-handedly make us into respectable OLine. 

[TimetobringDfence! 411]

3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

That would be incredibly dumb 

Nelson single handedly made OL top 5

Brayden Smith played a huge role in that. I agree Nelson is great and a cornerstone player. But I feel Leonard has that leadership making the players around him hungrier. I think Leonard is a notch above Nelson in locker room value.

[danlhart87 7,392]

The T spot is already a weakness with AC leaving. I dont want to weaken the G spot. Besides the MVP of the D is Buckner and with him driving things it will help any LB.

[Chloe6124 9,805]

30 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

That depends how the chips fall. if Lance and or Wilson slip past top 10 he would consider it. Smart move imo would be trade back for more picks and get Jones who I think will be there at the end. 

 

 

I doubt Ballard takes a chance on jones.  He is unathletic and out of shape. There is nothing special about him.

30 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

That depends how the chips fall. if Lance and or Wilson slip past top 10 he would consider it. Smart move imo would be trade back for more picks and get Jones who I think will be there at the end. 

 

 

I doubt Ballard takes a chance on jones.  He is unathletic and out of shape. There is nothing special about him.

[danlhart87 7,392]

Just now, danlhart87 said:

The T spot is already a weakness with AC leaving. I dont want to weaken the G spot. Besides the MVP of the D is Buckner and with him driving things it will help any LB.

besides why would colts trade for Watson and weaken our OL

 

He would love coming here if he knew Q was part of the squad 

[TimetobringDfence! 411]

6 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

besides why would colts trade for Watson and weaken our OL

 

He would love coming here if he knew Q was part of the squad 

I'd rather keep Q anyways. I think the right number of draft picks could land us Watson. Maybe our 1st and 3rd round this year. Our 2nd in '22. And 1st in '23 could get it done.

[danlhart87 7,392]

1 minute ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I'd rather keep Q anyways. I think the right number of draft picks could land us Watson. Maybe our 1st and 3rd round this year. Our 2nd in '22. And 1st in '23 could get it done.

2 1s 1 2 and 3

Colts would rob Texans if they accepted that 

[TimetobringDfence! 411]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

2 1s 1 2 and 3

Colts would rob Texans if they accepted 

Maybe 2 1sts 2 2nds and a 3rd. One member did say they probably want more picks this draft than in future drafts so they can build now.

[Defjamz26 2,037]

48 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

That depends how the chips fall. if Lance and or Wilson slip past top 10 he would consider it. Smart move imo would be trade back for more picks and get Jones who I think will be there at the end. 

 

 

I’m just not a fan of Jones. I see Jake Fromm and AJ McCaron all over him.

[danlhart87 7,392]

3 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Maybe 2 1sts 2 2nds and a 3rd. One member did say they probably want more picks this draft than in future drafts so they can build now.

It would take 3 1s just to start 

[danlhart87 7,392]

[Mick12Maher 67]

I love the Watson day dreaming but it’s just not gonna happen lol 

[coltsblue1844 146]

4 minutes ago, Mick12Maher said:

I love the Watson day dreaming but it’s just not gonna happen lol 

agreed, it would be like us trading a prime Luck or Peyton within the division...  i would keep him and get nothing and let him stay home, before i'd trade him to a division rival, if that were the only option... luckily for Houston, there will be plenty of other teams knocking on the door!

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21 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

From all the banter and reports back then, the Colts/Ballard was keenly interested and often tied to him. But at what cost to get him?

 

 

No, I believe you are truly mistaken here.  The Packers swapped their 1st round pick at #30 pick and added their pick #136 in a trade with the Dolphins to move up just 4 spots to pick at #26 and take Love.  The Colts did not have a first round pick (traded #13 for DeForest Buckner) at all to take him or trade down with, nor willing to move a lot of other draft capital to move ahead of Green Bay to get Jordan Love. End of story.

 

 

No, not at all. This likely would also have been very costly draft pick wise for the Colts to achieve.

 

BTW, Dolphins packaged that #136 pick along with their #141 pick on back to the Houston Texans for their pick at #111 (and Phins took OL Solomon Kindley) ... which the Texans had previously received from the Dolphins in the L. Tunsil/K. Stills trade. And at #30 the Phins took CB Noah Igbinoghene. The Dolphins got those two players just because the Pack wanted to move up 4 spots from #30 to #26 to draft Jordan Love. {Even though they already had Aaron Rodgers!}

 

There's no way the Colts or any other team could have taken Love just by trading a 4th.

Meh, I don't entirely agree here. I don't want to dismiss a 3d round pick as insignificant but IMO if Ballard liked Love that much and thought he has potential to be a franchise QB, compensation like a 2nd and 3d round picks is nothing(compared to the supposed value you are getting). I agree with Chloe here. This is NOT costly for your QB of the future... if you think he's that. So my thought has since been that maybe they didn't love Love THAT much. 

 

There were reports that he didn't wow anybody in interviews and on the white board. So... take for whatever it's worth. 

[John Hammonds 1,326]

15 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I’m just thinking about something. If Rivers retires and Jacoby leaves, what do you do at QB? 
 

Idk if Detroit will have the chance to or wants to draft a QB. So Stafford may not be an option. I can’t see Atlanta parting with Ryan either. Darnold may be an option but he’ll have other suitors so that’s not a guarantee either.

 

This could get really interesting.

Yup, you're getting down CB's list, past plan A, plan B, and down to about plan E and F.

 

I think plan A is to bring back Rivers.  If they can do a one year deal for less money than last year, it solves the Win Now issue, it solves the Better With Experience issue, it solves the Developed Relationships With The Receivers issue, and it also winds up being easier on the salary cap.

 

But what about if you can't bring back Rivers or Brissett?

 

If cap is what you care about most, then start Eason or draft a QB, or both.

 

If win-now experience is what you care about most, then trade for Stafford.  It'll hit your cap hard, but you'll have a veteran that can play for you for 2-3 years.

 

If longevity paired with experience is what you care about most, find a way to swing a deal for Darnold.

 

There are no easy answers.  CB has to find the best non-easy answer out there.

[Jeremy Waldon 184]

 

I know we havent seen him in NFL game action, but his throwing traits cant be taught. Nice accuracy and consistently hits guys in stride. If he has learned to read defenses better and not stare down targets, could he be the franchise QB?

I am intrigued and hope we can see some serious Eason play come training camp and pre games.

It sucks having a guy with great arm talent and yet havent seen him in action yet

[Chucklez 315]

Did you watch Ballard’s end of year presser? He wouldn’t even say that he thought Eason would be the backup for sure, never mind end up being the starter. He made it sound like he was more committed to the idea of Jacoby Brissett being the starter/backup than Eason.
 

Ballard said some nice things about him, but basically said they haven’t really had a chance to see enough from him at all at this point. This is a big off season and upcoming training camp/preseason for him.

 

Could he be a franchise QB? Maybe. He’ll have to prove it to us though. 

[CR91 6,371]

14 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

Did you watch Ballard’s end of year presser? He wouldn’t even say that he thought Eason would be the backup for sure, never mind end up being the starter. He made it sound like he was more committed to the idea of Jacoby Brissett being the starter/backup than Eason.
 

Ballard said some nice things about him, but basically said they haven’t really had a chance to see enough from him at all at this point. This is a big off season and upcoming training camp/preseason for him.

 

Could he be a franchise QB? Maybe. He’ll have to prove it to us though. 

 

If I'm Eason, I'm not leaving indy. I'm staying and going into the building all off-season. I'm studying this offense inside out. I'm hitting the gym early and leaving late. Hearing that from Ballard has to motivate him 

[GoColts8818 4,562]

If Chris Ballard can’t answer this question right now I don’t think anyone here can.

[Chloe6124 9,805]

24 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

If I'm Eason, I'm not leaving indy. I'm staying and going into the building all off-season. I'm studying this offense inside out. I'm hitting the gym early and leaving late. Hearing that from Ballard has to motivate him 

Plus as much as he can get the WR out there and practice.

[yankeeclipper 110]

Eason has   tremendous talent. I would hope he gets some real opportunities in training camp to show he belongs. We got him at a bargain basement price in the 4th round. He should have gone in day 1 of the draft and would have if this was not such a QB heavy draft.

 

[danlhart87 7,392]

Please merge with QB thread

[Superman 9,190]

8 hours ago, Mick12Maher said:

I love the Watson day dreaming but it’s just not gonna happen lol 

 

I like Watson, he's easily the brightest star of the potentially available QBs this offseason, but he still has a lot of work to do as an NFL QB. That might be the most exciting thing about him, once he gets some better coaching and OL play, he could get better. 

[danlhart87 7,392]

31 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I like Watson, he's easily the brightest star of the potentially available QBs this offseason, but he still has a lot of work to do as an NFL QB. That might be the most exciting thing about him, once he gets some better coaching and OL play, he could get better. 

He would be great behind Colts line but it's never gonna happen 

[ColtsBlueFL 4,385]

9 hours ago, stitches said:

Meh, I don't entirely agree here. I don't want to dismiss a 3d round pick as insignificant but IMO if Ballard liked Love that much and thought he has potential to be a franchise QB, compensation like a 2nd and 3d round picks is nothing(compared to the supposed value you are getting). I agree with Chloe here. This is NOT costly for your QB of the future... if you think he's that. So my thought has since been that maybe they didn't love Love THAT much. 

 

There were reports that he didn't wow anybody in interviews and on the white board. So... take for whatever it's worth. 

 

I can see where some Colts fans would trade the M. Pittman (#34) and J. Blackmon (#85) slots to get up to #26 where J. Love was taken. At least we would still have J. Taylor at #41 in the second round and could draft another player in the 4th round at #122 instead of a QB (Eason).

 

That would yield Buckner, Love, Taylor and a 4th rounder instead of Buckner, Pittman Jr., Blackmon, Eason we ended up with.

[Superman 9,190]

37 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

He would be great behind Colts line but it's never gonna happen 

 

He doesn't get sacked 50 times a year because of poor OL play. That's one of the things he has to work on.

[RollerColt 2,504]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He doesn't get sacked 50 times a year because of poor OL play. That's one of the things he has to work on.

It’s something all of the young mobile QBs need to work on in the AFC. 

[Chloe6124 9,805]

29 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I can see where some Colts fans would trade the M. Pittman (#34) and J. Blackmon (#85) slots to get up to #26 where J. Love was taken. At least we would still have J. Taylor at #41 in the second round and could draft another player in the 4th round at #122 instead of a QB (Eason).

 

That would yield Buckner, Love, Taylor and a 4th rounder instead of Buckner, Pittman Jr., Blackmon, Eason we ended up with.

Who knows Pitt might of still been there with that second second rd pick. If not o think claypoool would of.

[CR91 6,371]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Who knows Pitt might of still been there with that second second rd pick. If not o think claypoool would of.

 

I like Pitt. I can see him being our number one someday. I really wanna see him and Campbell together. Could become our Evans/Godwin

[Superman 9,190]

5 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

It’s something all of the young mobile QBs need to work on in the AFC. 

 

Probably true, but Watson led the league in sacks taken on plays that took more than 2.5 seconds (44). He was 5th in average time to throw (2.99 seconds), and 4th in time until sacked (3.97). 

 

For comparison, Rivers was sacked 17 times on plays that took more than 2.5 seconds, he averaged 2.35 seconds to throw, and 3.47 seconds until sacked. We have a better OL, but they also play QB very differently. 

 

Watson is also waaaay better than Rivers on extended plays, with 19 TDs and a 113 passer rating, vs Rivers 7 TDs and 82 passer rating.

 

Mahomes' splits are similar to Watson's, but he takes fewer than half as many sacks, including late in the play. Watson has to make big improvement in his game to cut down his sacks.

[waterdog 38]

11 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

But what about if you can't bring back Rivers or Brissett?

There are no easy answers.

Get the cheapest option, to compete with Eason.

Will Raven backup Tyler Huntley be a free agent?

...or Taylor Heinicke?

Get cheap QBs and pay for the best players supporting them.

[stitches 8,024]

Just heard an amazing stat that might be interesting for the people giving Joe Burrow vs Mac Jones comparisons: 

Tight window completions for the full season Jones 44, Joe Burrow 124. This is THREE times the number. This and and their respective ability and inability to move in and out of the pocket are the reasons one was viewed as a no. 1 pick and the other one is likely going at the end of the 1st or in the 2nd. A TON of Mac Jones' production was schemed wide open and/or YAC production by amazing group of receivers. Now... Burrow had his own amazing group of receivers, but the way he was succeeding was much closer to what he's going to be asked to do in the league than how Mac Jones is succeeding. 

 

With that said... I would still probably be OK if Ballard picks Jones, but people need to have more realistic expectations and more balanced view of what Jones has done and why he's not the prospect Burrow or the top 3-4 guys in this draft are. 

[RollerColt 2,504]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Probably true, but Watson led the league in sacks taken on plays that took more than 2.5 seconds (44). He was 5th in average time to throw (2.99 seconds), and 4th in time until sacked (3.97). 

 

For comparison, Rivers was sacked 17 times on plays that took more than 2.5 seconds, he averaged 2.35 seconds to throw, and 3.47 seconds until sacked. We have a better OL, but they also play QB very differently. 

 

Watson is also waaaay better than Rivers on extended plays, with 19 TDs and a 113 passer rating, vs Rivers 7 TDs and 82 passer rating.

 

Mahomes' splits are similar to Watson's, but he takes fewer than half as many sacks, including late in the play. Watson has to make big improvement in his game to cut down his sacks.

The extending plays and playing hero ball was more of my thinking. It's great entertainment, but eventually it catches up and injuries start to mount. I wince every time Lamar or Patrick or Deshaun start to scramble. The injuries this weekend could be considered freak accidents, especially with Lamar. But I'm also not so sure... 

[danlhart87 7,392]

6 hours ago, stitches said:

Just heard an amazing stat that might be interesting for the people giving Joe Burrow vs Mac Jones comparisons: 

Tight window completions for the full season Jones 44, Joe Burrow 124. This is THREE times the number. This and and their respective ability and inability to move in and out of the pocket are the reasons one was viewed as a no. 1 pick and the other one is likely going at the end of the 1st or in the 2nd. A TON of Mac Jones' production was schemed wide open and/or YAC production by amazing group of receivers. Now... Burrow had his own amazing group of receivers, but the way he was succeeding was much closer to what he's going to be asked to do in the league than how Mac Jones is succeeding. 

 

With that said... I would still probably be OK if Ballard picks Jones, but people need to have more realistic expectations and more balanced view of what Jones has done and why he's not the prospect Burrow or the top 3-4 guys in this draft are. 

Mac Jones clearly has his flaws but I think he could succeed behind Colts line. My biggest fear for him is ends up on a team that has an awful OL and gets killed.

 

He's got the talent and seems very poised its definitely going to take some work though. 

 

I have him 5th on QB chart behind Lawrence Fields Wilson and Lance and strongly believe he will land bottom 1 or on day 2 somewhere. 

[Chloe6124 9,805]

7 hours ago, stitches said:

Just heard an amazing stat that might be interesting for the people giving Joe Burrow vs Mac Jones comparisons: 

Tight window completions for the full season Jones 44, Joe Burrow 124. This is THREE times the number. This and and their respective ability and inability to move in and out of the pocket are the reasons one was viewed as a no. 1 pick and the other one is likely going at the end of the 1st or in the 2nd. A TON of Mac Jones' production was schemed wide open and/or YAC production by amazing group of receivers. Now... Burrow had his own amazing group of receivers, but the way he was succeeding was much closer to what he's going to be asked to do in the league than how Mac Jones is succeeding. 

 

With that said... I would still probably be OK if Ballard picks Jones, but people need to have more realistic expectations and more balanced view of what Jones has done and why he's not the prospect Burrow or the top 3-4 guys in this draft are. 

This is very well said. Burrows  offense at LSU also looked like a NFL offense. He was making NFL tight window throws all over.  Plus the lack of a combine is going to hurt somebody of these players. 

[Defjamz26 2,037]

10 hours ago, stitches said:

Just heard an amazing stat that might be interesting for the people giving Joe Burrow vs Mac Jones comparisons: 

Tight window completions for the full season Jones 44, Joe Burrow 124. This is THREE times the number. This and and their respective ability and inability to move in and out of the pocket are the reasons one was viewed as a no. 1 pick and the other one is likely going at the end of the 1st or in the 2nd. A TON of Mac Jones' production was schemed wide open and/or YAC production by amazing group of receivers. Now... Burrow had his own amazing group of receivers, but the way he was succeeding was much closer to what he's going to be asked to do in the league than how Mac Jones is succeeding. 

 

With that said... I would still probably be OK if Ballard picks Jones, but people need to have more realistic expectations and more balanced view of what Jones has done and why he's not the prospect Burrow or the top 3-4 guys in this draft are. 

Burrow also had way better traits. He’s a pocket passer but you at least saw his willingness to run the ball. He didn’t run the 49 at the combine but he probably would’ve been somewhere in the 4.7 range which is good enough. Athleticism matters. 

[stitches 8,024]

20 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Burrow also had way better traits. He’s a pocket passer but you at least saw his willingness to run the ball. He didn’t run the 49 at the combine but he probably would’ve been somewhere in the 4.7 range which is good enough. Athleticism matters. 

Burrow had some of the best pocket movement and awareness I've seen since Luck. Truly special. (thanks to athleticism) He was also making insane plays out of structure. Something that can't exactly be said about Jones...