Questionable rb use

[Stephen]

Don't  understand the  rb use. Taylor has a 10 yard gain then is sent to the bench. Wilkins  does next to nothing  most the game

[WoolMagnet]

I remember hearing multiple times that Rathman  chooses who goes in.  I find this odd, like putting cart before horse.  Does Siriani/Reich rhen choose plays to conplement who Rathman chooses has “the hot hand” as i’ve heard it termed?  I find this hard to believe.

  I would assume (and hope) is is more collaborative and based around a game plan.

  Rhe way i’ve heard it described is more from Rathman’s “gut.”

[bsteves]

I agree 100%. I have been feeling this way for weeks now. JT is clearly our best RB on the roster. The coaches like to play this little game where they start him, let him carry the ball once then take him out of the game. From there Wilkins and Hines get a majority of the snaps. It's frustrating. I don't see any situation where Jordan Wilkins should be in the game over JT and I damn sure don't see any reason why Hines should be running the ball up the middle on 3rd or 4th and shorts over him.

 

JT is a 230 lb beast that always falls foward. He is the type to wear defenses out and get better as the game goes on. The game is starting to slow down for him and he is finding his groove but the coaching staff seems reluctant to let him get into that groove. 

 

Imo, I think we need to lose this RB by committee approach that we have. We should run a 1 - 2 punch with JT and Hines with JT getting a majority of the snaps. They compliment each perfectly. 

[Defjamz26]

Taylor still had 90 yards on the day though, but ai feel you. I’ve been thinking that JT gets some unfair criticism at times. 

 

The real questionable RB use is how they keep trying to run it up the gut with Hines, especially in short yardage situations. Like that 4th and 1 play. You’ve had more success with that with Jacoby so giving the ball to Hines in that situation made zero sense.

 

Its like they don’t use JT in situations where they should. Also he had a nice day running and receiving, but he should get way more than 13 rushing attempts a game. He’s the lead back. It’s one thing when you’re playing from behind, but it’s another when you’re giving other RBs snaps that Taylor should be having.

[Stephen]

3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Taylor still had 90 yards on the day though, but ai feel you. I’ve been thinking that JT gets some unfair criticism at times. 

 

The real questionable RB use is how they keep trying to run it up the gut with Hines, especially in short yardage situations. Like that 4th and 1 play. You’ve had more success with that with Jacoby so giving the ball to Hines in that situation made zero sense.

 

Its like they don’t use JT in situations where they should. Also he had a nice day running and receiving, but he should get way more than 13 rushing attempts a game. He’s the lead back. It’s one thing when you’re playing from behind, but it’s another when you’re giving other RBs snaps that Taylor should be having.

I agree. Hines should never have a carry on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1. Also not understanding  all the wilkins carries.  Wilkins is best when used sparingly,  but having taylor run once for 10 yards they yanking him immediately  after  is silly

[DiogoSales]

I'm so glad JT is making me look stupid for all the complaining on his poor vision (It was poor weeks 0-8!). He's playing with confidence, speed and power.

 

I'm okay rotating the guy with Hines who's also playing great IMO, but today we needed JW on the bench, a mistake that almost cost us the game.

[Stephen]

59 minutes ago, DiogoSales said:

I'm so glad JT is making me look stupid for all the complaining on his poor vision (It was poor weeks 0-8!). He's playing with confidence, speed and power.

 

I'm okay rotating the guy with Hines who's also playing great IMO, but today we needed JW on the bench, a mistake that almost cost us the game.

Yea wilkins looked bad yesterday.  Frank in his interview  claimed he had confidence in  all three guys, but taylor was clearly under used

[DiogoSales]

4 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Yea wilkins looked bad yesterday.  Frank in his interview  claimed he had confidence in  all three guys, but taylor was clearly under used

The only compreensive anwser is that JT is better running under center and not from the gun, and it's clear that because of Rivers foot issue, we're playing the gun 90% of times. 

Other explanation is that the other backs are better on Pass Protection. Other than that, it's just crazy.

[AZColt11]

I don't care who's in so long as they can get the job done.  JT has upped his game lately.  I was expecting it.  Just too good coming out of college not to.  I suspect some of it was him getting familiar with the blocking schemes and such.  Looks like he's starting to do that.  With that said, it's the NFL and everybody gets paid.  He's still going to have 'off' games now and then, the OL won't be able to block, etc.  But I think he's figuring it out.  I still hope we find a way to keep Mack though.  They would be a pretty good duo.

[Mrfox]

With Frank calling the plays he does not have time to manage Rathman and gives him complete autonomy.

 

It seems the play Frank calls has no bearing on which back is in the game, he expects all of them to be able to run the play he calls. 
 

it makes no sense to me.

 

look at the scripted plays to start the game, Frank clearly sees that Taylor is the better back, but he has no time during the game to manage the backs because he is worrying about the next play.

[csmopar]

I’m just gonna say this.

 

JT- 13 carries for 91 yards.

 

the Entire team(7 others got at least one rush attempt) 16 carries, 18 yards.

Kneel downs and sacks not included

 

[DougDew]

JT's vision has been getting better.  He seems to be picking up on the speed of the NFL game and is making the cut earlier.  He looked to be a half second late earlier in the season.

 

Since he's improving, we may see him get more PT.

 

And he's also showing that he can catch the ball.

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, DiogoSales said:

I'm so glad JT is making me look stupid for all the complaining on his poor vision (It was poor weeks 0-8!). He's playing with confidence, speed and power.

 

I'm okay rotating the guy with Hines who's also playing great IMO, but today we needed JW on the bench, a mistake that almost cost us the game.

It wasn’t even him though, it was the staff. Week 2 he goes 101 yards on 26 carries against Minnesota.

 

Very next week against the Jets who we blew out, he gets 13 carries. Most of the season he has floated between 11-15 carries. Not to mention the offensive line has taken a step back this season in terms of run blocking.

 

JT isn’t perfect and definitely missed a hole or two here and there, but his slow start is due more towards things outside of his control. That said he has 600 rushing yards on the season, along with 247 receiving. The guy is having a nice season even with a lack of opportunities.

[csmopar]

JT is 27/28 rep/target too. Wow

[Stephen]

40 minutes ago, csmopar said:

JT is 27/28 rep/target too. Wow

Yea they don't  throw to him enough  or run him enough 

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

JT's vision has been getting better.  He seems to be picking up on the speed of the NFL game and is making the cut earlier.  He looked to be a half second late earlier in the season.

 

Since he's improving, we may see him get more PT.

 

And he's also showing that he can catch the ball.

Yea, but despite that they don't  throw it to him enough. Bill bellichick  and any reid would have made him a 1000 rush yard back plus 500 receiving yard back. Even the titans would would use taylor more than we do.

[Jdubu]

6 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

I remember hearing multiple times that Rathman  chooses who goes in.  I find this odd, like putting cart before horse.  Does Siriani/Reich rhen choose plays to conplement who Rathman chooses has “the hot hand” as i’ve heard it termed?  I find this hard to believe.

  I would assume (and hope) is is more collaborative and based around a game plan.

  Rhe way i’ve heard it described is more from Rathman’s “gut.”

If this is true, Reich is worse than I thought as a HC.  Reich should be determining his personnel based on his play calls and known skill sets of his starters and reserves. Now getting input from his position coaches in game is helpful, especially if one of them gets nicked up or in special play call circumstances. Like if JT has shown lights out reps in this type of play call but hey Frank, using Hines on this play call has shown to be far better in several reps at practice. Input should always be taken from those position coaches but the play caller should be making personnel packages based on what they’ve done all week and the starters given high priority to succeed in most calls. Idk. 

[NannyMcafee]

Frank is a good coach but it seems he's always trying to outsmart people instead of just play the damn game. 

 

On the D line it makes sense to have it by committee but with the RBs just put the more talented and skilled player in. 

 

I think a Hines/Taylor is a nice balance. Why is Wilkins in so much? 

 

I must have been the only one not asking for Wilkins to run the ball when he had a high yards per rush. 

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

I feel your frustration. I do think u will c more of JT from now on. I also beleive they didnt want to run him into the ground and he struggled early. I believe they wanted him fresh for play off push. Here we go the push is on lol.

[crazycolt1]

The only thing I am going to complain about is Frank not running 'the hot hand'. 

There is a good point made that our offensive line is not blocking very well on running plays off tackle. 

On the 4th and 4 Frank called an excellent play with passing the ball to Taylor to the right for a TD. 

 

 

[NorthernColt]

Frank as a play caller, seems like the kind of guy who thinks himself in circles. For example:

 

Situation: 4th and 1

 

"We only need one yard, everyone thinks we'll use Jacoby and or Taylor to go up the gut for one yard. But they'll expect that. What if I put Rivers in shotgun, with Hines in, so they think we'll be doing something else, but then run up the gut? They'll never see it coming."

 

Thats how I see his thought process when he calls plays.

[Stephen]

2 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

Frank as a play caller, seems like the kind of guy who thinks himself in circles. For example:

 

Situation: 4th and 1

 

"We only need one yard, everyone thinks we'll use Jacoby and or Taylor to go up the gut for one yard. But they'll expect that. What if I put Rivers in shotgun, with Hines in, so they think we'll be doing something else, but then run up the gut? They'll never see it coming."

 

Thats how I see his thought process when he calls plays.

Lol Reich said none of the other backs would have got the first down on that run

[NorthernColt]

14 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Lol Reich said none of the other backs would have got the first down on that run

Come on, did he actually?! I must have missed that. I get coach speak at times, but a comment like that is borderline scary lol. Franks obsession with his "conviction" scares me as a coach tbh.

[Nesjan3]

I dont get it. Frank has said multiple times he intends to ride the hot hand. Yesterday Taylor had 7 YPC, WIlkins 2.4 YPC, Hines 1.7 YPC. Yet he kept taking out of Taylors hands, The 4th and 1 hand off to Hines was maddening. 

[Stephen]

4 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

Come on, did he actually?! I must have missed that. I get coach speak at times, but a comment like that is borderline scary lol. Franks obsession with his "conviction" scares me as a coach tbh.

Yea it was on YouTube. Reporters asked him after the game

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, Nesjan3 said:

I dont get it. Frank has said multiple times he intends to ride the hot hand. Yesterday Taylor had 7 YPC, WIlkins 2.4 YPC, Hines 1.7 YPC. Yet he kept taking out of Taylors hands, The 4th and 1 hand off to Hines was maddening. 

Ikr. Taylor has 148 runs for 609 4 tds 4.1 yard per carry average  and has caught 29 of 30 targets for 271 and a td. His 4.1 yard per carry average  is better than Mack's  3.8 his rookie year

 

[Smash Mouth]

6 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

Come on, did he actually?! I must have missed that. I get coach speak at times, but a comment like that is borderline scary lol. Franks obsession with his "conviction" scares me as a coach tbh.

 

6 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

Come on, did he actually?! I must have missed that. I get coach speak at times, but a comment like that is borderline scary lol. Franks obsession with his "conviction" scares me as a coach tbh.

Well Trey Burton completely whiffed on the block leaving two Texans sitting in the hole. But why is Trey Burton trapping on that play? Poor design in my opinion.  

[rockywoj]

14 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Yea it was on YouTube. Reporters asked him after the game

Given his answer, one would think that he’d learn that the stupid telegraph the run up the middle from that tight run formation IS the problem.  The run from that formation has failed for years.  It makes no sense ... bunch the offence together so the defence is all bunched up and then try to run right up the middle into all those defenders.  Ummm, like spread the offence out, creating all kinds of options in spreading the defence out, then pick your poison.  And another nitpick, after a few successful runs, throw in some play action instead of going to the well too often, as Reich has CONSISTENTLY and PREDICTABLY done over and over.  If I can so often rightly yell at the tv to run a play action pass instead of the run they are going run, then no wonder there are so many instances of going to the well too often.

 

I like Reich, but find myself getting more and more frustrated by his play calling and decision making.

[Fisticuffs111]

Was this the drive where we ran JT like 3-4 times effectively and then he got stopped for a loss because Reich went to the well one too many times?

 

I’ve noticed this situation a few times with Reich. We’ll use the hot RB to get down the field effectively, and Reich will literally do this until that RB gets stopped for a loss, then he’ll take him out for the rest of the drive. Like, sure, I get JT needed a rest, but it seemed like he had plenty of time to get a breather there.

[Stephen]

3 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

This was the same drive where we ran JT like 3-4 straight times (going to the well one too many times, as the last Carey was for a loss) correct?

 

I’ve noticed this situation a few times with Reich. We’ll use the hot RB to get down the field effectively, and Reich will literally do this until that RB gets stopped for a loss, then he’ll take him out for the rest of the drive. Like, sure, I get JT needed a rest, but it seemed like he had plenty of time to get a breather there.

What killed me was the second quarter  when taylor comes in has a 10 yard gain then goes back to the bench. Most teams would run you again after a 10 yard gain

[rockywoj]

On that run for the loss, it was SO obvious that the Colts were running it there, and you could clearly see the defence all primed up to stop the run on that play.  I yelled “play action pass it!”  But nope, the predictable run that was stuffed.  So frustrating.  Fisticuffs, you characterize it perfectly.

[John Waylon]

It’s literally a game of roulette on every play. Doesn’t matter who is doing well, who isn’t, what the play call is... they somehow randomly pick an RB and he’s the one in the game for the next play. 

[Valpo2004]

7 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Taylor still had 90 yards on the day though, but ai feel you. I’ve been thinking that JT gets some unfair criticism at times. 

 

The real questionable RB use is how they keep trying to run it up the gut with Hines, especially in short yardage situations. Like that 4th and 1 play. You’ve had more success with that with Jacoby so giving the ball to Hines in that situation made zero sense.

 

Its like they don’t use JT in situations where they should. Also he had a nice day running and receiving, but he should get way more than 13 rushing attempts a game. He’s the lead back. It’s one thing when you’re playing from behind, but it’s another when you’re giving other RBs snaps that Taylor should be having.

 

Looking at the number of yards verses the number of carries I also don't understand why JT wasn't getting more carries.

 

He was clearly the "hot hand" on Sunday and was doing it against a defense that was weak against the run.  JT should have gotten the ball at least 20 times.

 

I also agree with you a lot.  I'm not sure about the decision to go for it on 4th and 1 in that situation.  It probably would be smarter to kick the FG.  But if you are going to go for it on 4th and 1 for the love of God use the QB sneak with Jacoby.  They have run statistics all across the NFL and the QB sneak is the closest to a sure thing on 1 yard conversions that there is.  Given how good our line is and how big and strong Jacoby is, to me the QB sneak is even more of a sure thing for the Colts.  

 

Instead if I remember right they ran the play out of the shotgun which means that the defense isn't even worried about the QB sneak anymore and ran it with our smallest running back.  

[Nickster]

50 minutes ago, Smash Mouth said:

 

Well Trey Burton completely whiffed on the block leaving two Texans sitting in the hole. But why is Trey Burton trapping on that play? Poor design in my opinion.  

Terrible play call on 4th and short, with the personnel.    You are relying on a TE to reach a LB right in the middle of the line, who has no other responsibility on that play rather than to meet the RB in that gap.  A TE mind you who is not named Jack Doyle or Mo Allie Cox who are excellent run blockers.  Terrible football call with the exact wrong personnel.  Mystifying.

 

The Reich thing is wearing off on me.  I guess he's arrogant or stupid, one of those people who doesn't ever seem his own mistake.  

 

Or maybe he's one of those people who thinks he's smarter than everyone else.  Or doesn't learn from his mistakes.  IDK.

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

JT is 27/28 rep/target too. Wow

Yeah he can do it all. That’s why I don’t get if you’re not going to give him a bunch of carries, you should have him running wheel routes all the time.

[crazycolt1]

12 minutes ago, Nickster said:

The Reich thing is wearing off on me.  I guess he's arrogant or stupid, one of those people who doesn't ever seem his own mistake.  

It's easy to point out plays that didn't work but overlook the plays that did work.

The 4th and 4 TD to Taylor was a thing of beauty. 

[Myles]

Reichs playcalling just is not good.  

 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

It's easy to point out plays that didn't work but overlook the plays that did work.

The 4th and 4 TD to Taylor was a thing of beauty. 

Exactly.  Watch any NFL game, there are ebb and flows to how well an offense moves the ball during a game.  How many point are we scoring?  Something must be working, even with little talent on the field in the receiver positions through half of the season.

 

I think Frank doesn't punt enough, but I like the concept of the offense holding the ball and playing keep away. 

 

But I do not like the multiple rotations at RB.  Its time to stick with JT more.  We'll see what happens.

[TimetobringDfence!]

5 hours ago, Mrfox said:

With Frank calling the plays he does not have time to manage Rathman and gives him complete autonomy.

 

It seems the play Frank calls has no bearing on which back is in the game, he expects all of them to be able to run the play he calls. 
 

it makes no sense to me.

 

look at the scripted plays to start the game, Frank clearly sees that Taylor is the better back, but he has no time during the game to manage the backs because he is worrying about the next play.

He knows the personel on the field when he makes the calls. His play calling sucks and over aggression has become a liability to the team.

[Superman]

9 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Taylor still had 90 yards on the day though, but ai feel you. I’ve been thinking that JT gets some unfair criticism at times. 

 

The real questionable RB use is how they keep trying to run it up the gut with Hines, especially in short yardage situations. Like that 4th and 1 play. You’ve had more success with that with Jacoby so giving the ball to Hines in that situation made zero sense.

 

Its like they don’t use JT in situations where they should. Also he had a nice day running and receiving, but he should get way more than 13 rushing attempts a game. He’s the lead back. It’s one thing when you’re playing from behind, but it’s another when you’re giving other RBs snaps that Taylor should be having.

 

Hines has converted inside runs on short yardage several times this season. He also has been as a route runner in those situations, with pretty good success. And as Reich said, none of our backs would have converted on that failed play because the OL got blown up.