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I believe he had 10 snaps against GB and 4 against TN. I'm assuming his lack of snaps last weekend had more to do with trying to have a bigger front 4 to help against Henry than Turay being ready or not.

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1 minute ago, Shive said:

I believe he had 10 snaps against GB and 4 against TN. I'm assuming his lack of snaps last weekend had more to do with trying to have a bigger front 4 to help against Henry than Turay being ready or not.

I agree with you here.  They needed to stop the run and not worry to much about Tannehill.  I see him playing more snaps against Houston because Watson is a bigger impact than Tannehill.

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1 minute ago, DaColts85 said:

I agree with you here.  They needed to stop the run and not worry to much about Tannehill.  I see him playing more snaps against Houston because Watson is a bigger impact than Tannehill.

is Turay not a good run stopper? 

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12 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

is Turay not a good run stopper? 

hes mostly used on passing downs, seems like the team thinks he isnt good at it

 

i dont think any of us have seen him against enough the run to comment directly 

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Here are his stats from the 2019 season, where many folks believe a rising star was born.  Looks like he got most of his snaps against KC, who is not a running team.  That was the game where Mahomes was gimpy and their O was a bit out of synch.  He got injured at that game IIRC.

 

Under Game Logs, click on the year arrow and you can get 2019.

 

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/player-stats/kemoko-turay

 

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4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Here are his stats from the 2019 season, where many folks believe he was a rising star.  Looks like he got most of his snaps against KC, who is not a running team.  That was the game where Mahomes was gimpy and their O was a bit out of synch.

 

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/player-stats/kemoko-turay

 

2018 he had a decent year but injuries might have stunted the growth.  I will say even in 2018 he only averaged 28 snaps per game and had an alright overall year.  4.5 sacks with good pressures but our D-line was also pretty bad and it was his rookie year.  I would say he has good potential if the health can be there and he has no setbacks.

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1 minute ago, DaColts85 said:

2018 he had a decent year but injuries might have stunted the growth.  I will say even in 2018 he only averaged 28 snaps per game and had an alright overall year.  4.5 sacks with good pressures but our D-line was also pretty bad and it was his rookie year.  I would say he has good potential if the health can be there and he has no setbacks.

I think the draft strategy given all of second round picks devoted to pass rushers, that Ballard believes the 3T with Buckner is the 3 down player and that everybody else is rotational, including all DEs.  

 

So I would never expect to see any one of our DEs pile up the snaps and stats like some other players on other teams would.  Especially not like Freeney or Mathis who played every down.

 

Its always going to be hard to judge the effectiveness of any one of our DEs without watching the games and looking at situational success at times that matter.  JMO.

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3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think the draft strategy given all of second round picks devoted to pass rushers, that Ballard believes the 3T with Buckner is the 3 down player and that everybody else is rotational, including all DEs.  

 

So I would never expect to see any one of our DEs pile up the snaps and stats like some other players on other teams would.  Especially not like Freeney or Mathis who played every down.

 

Its always going to be hard to judge the effectiveness of any one of our DEs without watching the games and looking at situational success at times that matter.  JMO.

I do agree but the one thing I would add is that he typically has one DE (Sheard and now Houston) take a majority of the snaps.  Older vets to help contain and close the pocket, but need to focus on the run.  This is something we need and if Houston leaves in FA Lewis might be the replacement for that. 

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2 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I do agree but the one thing I would add is that he typically has one DE (Sheard and now Houston) take a majority of the snaps.  Older vets to help contain and close the pocket, but need to focus on the run.  This is something we need and if Houston leaves in FA Lewis might be the replacement for that. 

Yes.  Lewis was never destined to be a 3T or a pure edge pass rusher.  More of an edge setter that gets some scrappy sacks.

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7 hours ago, Shadow_Creek said:

is Turay not a good run stopper? 

 

7 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

He is an up field speed rusher.  He is not known for the run stopper side, especially when the RB (Henry) is as big as him.

Going into the draft, Turay was known more for his run D than pass D off the Edge, but still with explosive traits. Basically said he was terrific chasing down the run and setting the edge, but was rigid rushing, and lacked a go-to pass rush move. The time training in the offseason really benefited him. IMO, he's got a pretty good shot at becoming a 3 down guy. At least more than our other young options at DE.

6 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

I do agree but the one thing I would add is that he typically has one DE (Sheard and now Houston) take a majority of the snaps.  Older vets to help contain and close the pocket, but need to focus on the run.  This is something we need and if Houston leaves in FA Lewis might be the replacement for that. 

Houston, before last week, was 10th in the league at pass rush win rate. He fell out of the top 10 after last game. We have no other players ranked higher.

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

Yes.  Lewis was never destined to be a 3T or a pure edge pass rusher.  More of an edge setter that gets some scrappy sacks.

He's a classic tweener like Autry. IMO Autry is better at DE than 3T, but Lewis might be better at 3T than DE. 

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Just now, EastStreet said:

 

 

He's a classic tweener like Autry. IMO Autry is better at DE than 3T, but Lewis might be better at 3T than DE. 

At 6.3, Lewis isn't really long enough to be on the edge for long stretches, IMO.  At least Autry is 6.5.  And he's not heavy enough to be in the middle for long either.  Lewis is a nice utilitarian piece, and will have his moments and maybe an entire game at times, but destined to be a role player for different packages.  Why there was a need to trade up to get him before round three I still don't get.

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15 minutes ago, DougDew said:

At 6.3, Lewis isn't really long enough to be on the edge for long stretches, IMO.  At least Autry is 6.5.  And he's not heavy enough to be in the middle for long either.  Lewis is a nice utilitarian piece, and will have his moments and maybe an entire game at times, but destined to be a role player for different packages.  Why there was a need to trade up to get him before round three I still don't get.

Yep, I agree that he'd likely have been available later. There have been several like that, but I don't get too caught up on that so long as it works. It seems to be working out, but yes, I think we could have waited. 

 

Lewis at OSU had his best moments at OSU when moving inside as a rush 3T. His production decreased as OSU recruited some high star guys, but OSU still was able to move him around get pretty good use out of him. I do agree with you though that he's destined to be at his best when playing a role. I'm not sure what his future holds, but with all our DEs being FA next year, and 3T locked up for the future, he could end up playing more DE than expected. Personally, I'd prefer he be rush DT in passing downs with Buckner moving over.

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27 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Going into the draft, Turay was known more for his run D than pass D off the Edge, but still with explosive traits. Basically said he was terrific chasing down the run and setting the edge, but was rigid rushing, and lacked a go-to pass rush move. The time training in the offseason really benefited him. IMO, he's got a pretty good shot at becoming a 3 down guy. At least more than our other young options at DE.

Houston, before last week, was 10th in the league at pass rush win rate. He fell out of the top 10 after last game. We have no other players ranked higher.

He's a classic tweener like Autry. IMO Autry is better at DE than 3T, but Lewis might be better at 3T than DE. 

lewis is good in passing downs at defensive tackle but was getting bullied against the run he is to small .  If they want to keep him at the 3  why not get his weight up to at least 290  and build his strength up .    lewis was getting pushed back against tenn pretty badly , but against the pass gets push from using his athletic ability and speed .

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1 minute ago, coming on strong said:

lewis is good in passing downs at defensive tackle but was getting bullied against the run he is to small .  If they want to keep him at the 3  why not get his weight up to at least 290  and build his strength up .    lewis was getting pushed back against tenn pretty badly , but against the pass gets push from using his athletic ability and speed .

I'd just prefer to use him at 3T on passing downs only. If he puts wait on, I think he'd lose explosiveness. No need to use him vs the run at all, unless of course due to injury (like last week).

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36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

At 6.3, Lewis isn't really long enough to be on the edge for long stretches, IMO.  At least Autry is 6.5.  And he's not heavy enough to be in the middle for long either.  Lewis is a nice utilitarian piece, and will have his moments and maybe an entire game at times, but destined to be a role player for different packages.  Why there was a need to trade up to get him before round three I still don't get.

I think we moved up 2-3 places to get Lewis.   I think we gave up a 5 to get him.   Why this is  an issue for you 2.5 years later is a mystery known only to you.   But here you are bringing up a non-issue. 

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7 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

I do agree but the one thing I would add is that he typically has one DE (Sheard and now Houston) take a majority of the snaps.  Older vets to help contain and close the pocket, but need to focus on the run.  This is something we need and if Houston leaves in FA Lewis might be the replacement for that. 

That only really happens when the younger players aren’t ready to take majority of the snaps. If the Colts had an edge rusher they felt could generate the pressure the Houston or Autry have, he’d move on from them. Ballard isn’t shy about cutting veterans if the young guys can go. You saw how he did it with Desir and Hunt.

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1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think we moved up 2-3 places to get Lewis.   I think we gave up a 5 to get him.   Why this is  an issue for you 2.5 years later is a mystery known only to you.   But here you are bringing up a non-issue. 

Why you feel the need to point out something that is a nonissue to everyone is a mystery known only to you. 

 

No wait, we all know.  Its because you like to patrol the board and attack anybody whenever you think you have an opening.

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11 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

That only really happens when the younger players aren’t ready to take majority of the snaps. If the Colts had an edge rusher they felt could generate the pressure the Houston or Autry have, he’d move on from them. Ballard isn’t shy about cutting veterans if the young guys can go. You saw how he did it with Desir and Hunt.

I am not saying anything about cutting anyone.  I think it would be the dumbest move possible to cut Houston.  I am talking in reference to Houston being a FA after this year and no guarantee of being back.

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11 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I'd just prefer to use him at 3T on passing downs only. If he puts wait on, I think he'd lose explosiveness. No need to use him vs the run at all, unless of course due to injury (like last week).

The problem is colts have zero depth it’s Lewis and Buckner . They cut day and don’t trust the practice squad players they brought up yet.   I saw them putting stallworth and Grover on the field together last game but even stallworth had trouble getting off the blocks and stopping the run . 

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12 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I'd just prefer to use him at 3T on passing downs only. If he puts wait on, I think he'd lose explosiveness. No need to use him vs the run at all, unless of course due to injury (like last week).

On strictly passing downs I would have Buckner and Lewis as DT's.  I would not want Lewis at 3T unless it is just to help keep Bucks legs fresh, but Buckner will always have the better impact.  To me honestly Lewis isn't terrible moving in or out.  He is versatile but that also means he isn't great at anything.  I can see him still moving out to be an edge setter personally.  He and Turay are both still very young in their careers and both have had injury/play issues that have held them back as well.  The remaining years of their contracts will obviously be huge.

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12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think we moved up 2-3 places to get Lewis.   I think we gave up a 5 to get him.   Why this is  an issue for you 2.5 years later is a mystery known only to you.   But here you are bringing up a non-issue. 

To give you an actual sincere answer to a nonsincere question.

 

I tend to be a person who looks and budgets and expenditures, so I tend to see things through the prism of value of investment, cost/benefit.  It matters to me.  Its part of how I define success and achievement.  What did the success cost, and what did it take away from potential other options for success in other areas.  Its what interests me.

 

Just like there is a whole fantasy football industry that is nothing more than a competition over who can aggregate the most statistics under one umbrella each week and each season.  I have little interest in stats. 

 

Or others who hope that there leader guides them to football happiness, and faith in that leadership from day 1, where things are looked through the prism of everything is going how they hoped it would go from day one.  I suppose somebody like that might think somebody like me who asks questions is a person who seeks to destroy their faith, akin to committing blasphemy.

 

To me, if the investment does not take away from other options, say, paying Devin Funchess $16M or overpay Anthony Johnson or Samson Satele when you have no realistic option to spend the money any differently....it doesn't take away from other opportunites...I'm not one of those people who complain about it.  But waste a first round pick on Bjoern Werner or even a 5th round pick  on a player that could have been gotten later, it matters. 

 

The fact that it doesn't matter to you, or to your opinion that most people don't care, is not interesting to me.  

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43 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

The problem is colts have zero depth it’s Lewis and Buckner . They cut day and don’t trust the practice squad players they brought up yet.   I saw them putting stallworth and Grover on the field together last game but even stallworth had trouble getting off the blocks and stopping the run . 

Surprised Stallworth is still on the team after last Sunday’s performance. 

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14 hours ago, DougDew said:

Why you feel the need to point out something that is a nonissue to everyone is a mystery known only to you. 

 

No wait, we all know.  Its because you like to patrol the board and attack anybody whenever you think you have an opening.

seems like some on this forum are only here to attack others, i wonder why they have not been banned?

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21 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

seems like some on this forum are only here to attack others, i wonder why they have not been banned?

Clever enough to evade the wordsmithing flags.   As if simple word usage is what offends and not a persistent attitude and intent, LOL. 

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1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Clever enough to evade the wordsmithing flags.   As if simple word usage is what offends and not a persistent attitude and intent, LOL. 

they must be very unhappy or just like being cyber bullies, or bad cases of little man syndrome

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1 hour ago, DEFENSE said:

they must be very unhappy or just like being cyber bullies, or bad cases of little man syndrome

 

3 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

seems like some on this forum are only here to attack others, i wonder why they have not been banned?

 

Since I think you're talking about me,  I'll respond.

 

I don't ever care if anyone shares my view or agrees with me.  I've stated that many times over my 8.5 years here.   

 

I only care about the quality of the argument.   I come along and disagree with someone when I think they are completely and totally wrong, or making something out of nothing.     Why?   Because this website has a long history of a poster saying something...    we'll call it "X".    They say that and a bunch of other posters respond to say they agree with that poster.     5,10, 15 posters might agree with the poster who says "X".     Only to have another poster come along to explain that not only is "X" wrong,  it's 180 degrees wrong.   They explain their view and that stops the "X" argument dead in its tracks.      Put another way,  an incorrect position, if not challenged,  often becomes accepted conventional wisdom around here.    I find that enormously frustrating.   So, I will challenge when I see something worth challenging.

 

And it's NOT personal.    I'm long on record as saying that I think Superman is the Best Poster here.  And it's not even close.   He's not only my favorite poster,  he's a personal friend.   But when I think he's wrong,  I challenge him too.   And more than half the time he will explain it to me and show me that he's right and I'm wrong.   That happens with him, and a large number of other top quality posters here as well.   They're right, and I'm wrong.   But I challenge until they make a good, effective argument.   And that's all I ask.   Make a good argument.   I don't care if I agree 100% with you.   But explain yourself in a way that supports your position in a logical way.

 

As a poster here for 8 and a half years,  that's what I care about.   Good arguments.   I'm not a huge fan of opinion that masquerades as fact.    I'd be thrilled if I never got into another argument with anyone for 8 and a half more years.   It wouldn't mean I was right.   But it would mean that people where explaining themselves in a way that was informed and reasonable.     That's what I care about.  Not arguing.   

 

I hope this clarifies things for those who don't like my posting here.

 

 

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5 hours ago, DougDew said:

To give you an actual sincere answer to a nonsincere question.

 

I tend to be a person who looks and budgets and expenditures, so I tend to see things through the prism of value of investment, cost/benefit.  It matters to me.  Its part of how I define success and achievement.  What did the success cost, and what did it take away from potential other options for success in other areas.  Its what interests me.

 

Just like there is a whole fantasy football industry that is nothing more than a competition over who can aggregate the most statistics under one umbrella each week and each season.  I have little interest in stats. 

 

Or others who hope that there leader guides them to football happiness, and faith in that leadership from day 1, where things are looked through the prism of everything is going how they hoped it would go from day one.  I suppose somebody like that might think somebody like me who asks questions is a person who seeks to destroy their faith, akin to committing blasphemy.

 

To me, if the investment does not take away from other options, say, paying Devin Funchess $16M or overpay Anthony Johnson or Samson Satele when you have no realistic option to spend the money any differently....it doesn't take away from other opportunites...I'm not one of those people who complain about it.  But waste a first round pick on Bjoern Werner or even a 5th round pick  on a player that could have been gotten later, it matters. 

 

The fact that it doesn't matter to you, or to your opinion that most people don't care, is not interesting to me.  

 

Doug....    I don't know how old you are,  but I know you're old enough to know the following is true.

 

Everything in life is understood looking backward.   That's why hindsight is seen as 20/20.   We understand our mistakes in life looking back and having context.

 

Very little is understood looking forward.   Decisions that seem obvious at the time,  often look bad in hindsight.  And that's true about all things in life,  not just football.   So, observing that Lewis is not worth the 2 and 5 we spent on him is not exactly some genius insight.   It's viewed with context of his 2.5 years as a Colt.   But in real time,  we thought enough of the kid not to risk losing him so we spent a 5 to move up 3 spots.  That's an investment of pennies on the draft dollar.    If Lewis was a raging success you wouldn't care.

 

But if you're going to make a mistake in the draft,  wouldn't you rather be Chris Ballard spending an extra 5 for a guy who is currently disappointing,  rather than, say,  Chicago, who spent two 3's and a 4 to move up one spot to take....  (wait for it)  Mitch Trubisky?!    Not only has that move not worked out,  it looks historically bad because they also bi-passed (wait for it)  Pat Mahomes and DeShaun Watson!    Now that trade looks dramatically worse.   That's the kind of trade that will haunt the Bears franchise for more than a decade.   

 

Complaining about spending a 5 to move up to get a guy they rated highly is just fan boy nonsense.   Because what you're saying is the only trade worth making is a trade that works.   If it doesn't work -- for whatever reason -- is cause to take cheap pot shots years after the fact, and acting like you're offering up some pearls of wisdom.   You're not.   You're trying to make something out of almost nothing.

 

Like the popular song says.....    "Let it go!   Let is go!   Let it go!"

 

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On 12/2/2020 at 12:44 PM, DougDew said:

Yes.  Lewis was never destined to be a 3T or a pure edge pass rusher.  More of an edge setter that gets some scrappy sacks.

 

I think strong side DE plays more snaps for us than weak side DE with more run stopping responsibilities like Sheard and Houston. I am not sure if that is a systematic conscious approach or something that happened by chance. In other words, they want a few jacks who do only 1 trade on a rotational basis instead of 1 jack that does several trades for the weak side DE position. However the hit percentage seems to be low so far with several dart opportunities at the draft board.

 

That approach only works if those jacks do jack but if they don't do jack, who the jack is won't matter. :) 

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Doug....    I don't know how old you are,  but I know you're old enough to know the following is true.

 

Everything in life is understood looking backward.   That's why hindsight is seen as 20/20.   We understand our mistakes in life looking back and having context.

 

Very little is understood looking forward.   Decisions that seem obvious at the time,  often look bad in hindsight.  And that's true about all things in life,  not just football.   So, observing that Lewis is not worth the 2 and 5 we spent on him is not exactly some genius insight.   It's viewed with context of his 2.5 years as a Colt.   But in real time,  we thought enough of the kid not to risk losing him so we spent a 5 to move up 3 spots.  That's an investment of pennies on the draft dollar.    If Lewis was a raging success you wouldn't care.

 

But if you're going to make a mistake in the draft,  wouldn't you rather be Chris Ballard spending an extra 5 for a guy who is currently disappointing,  rather than, say,  Chicago, who spent two 3's and a 4 to move up one spot to take....  (wait for it)  Mitch Trubisky?!    Not only has that move not worked out,  it looks historically bad because they also bi-passed (wait for it)  Pat Mahomes and DeShaun Watson!    Now that trade looks dramatically worse.   That's the kind of trade that will haunt the Bears franchise for more than a decade.   

 

Complaining about spending a 5 to move up to get a guy they rated highly is just fan boy nonsense.   Because what you're saying is the only trade worth making is a trade that works.   If it doesn't work -- for whatever reason -- is cause to take cheap pot shots years after the fact, and acting like you're offering up some pearls of wisdom.   You're not.   You're trying to make something out of almost nothing.

 

Like the popular song says.....    "Let it go!   Let is go!   Let it go!"

 

Rattle on about your interpretation about what's going on, rather than your knowledge of it.  

 

Why are babbling about something irrelevant, like hindsight?

 

There was no looking back. There is no hindsight. The trade up for Lewis was criticized immediately when it happened.  My thought yesterday merely triggered a memory of a thought I had 2.5 years ago.  It wasn't a new thought based on hindsight.

 

If you don't know that, you're not qualified to comment about the situation or about me.

 

Let it go, because you've revealed your ignorance on the matter.

 

And it was a one sentence comment at the end of a five sentence paragraph.  It was a side comment.  It wasn't a deal until you made it one by taking a "reportable" personal shot.

 

Do us a favor.  Smarten up about members or stop commenting about them. 

 

 

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    • If we let Walker Walk, (and I think it’s likely) it’s not because we want an upgrade.   It’s because we simply don’t play him enough.   I think East Street has the numbers in snaps, but I think Walker is roughly playing 25-30 percent of the snaps.   That’s it.    We can't pay him enough for that.   Some other team will PLAY him more so they will PAY him more.    When Walker is off the field, we are either playing a 4-2-5 or a 4-1-6.   Leonard plays basically 100 percent of the snaps and I think Oke is about 55-60 percent.     There is a method to our madness.  
    • I'm surprised some folks want to resign Walker. Imo we definitely need an upgrade.... I'd let him walk.
    • Colts have won one playoff game in 6 seasons. Some more losing seasons and this team is no longer even in the top half of NFL franchises. They would be mostly irrelevant. I can’t imagine Irsay going for that.   Ballard is definitely safe...but this is year 5 and I am assuming there is a bit more urgency than just waiting for the perfect opportunity to come along.
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