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Is 2020 Class approaching 2018 level? Indy Star


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1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

tbd


solely based on rookie years... Blackmon is playing at Leonard’s level and could very well be DPOY. Pittman and Taylor are starting contributors who looked damn good last game. Special team players making big plays in Rodgers and Glasgow, not to mention undrafted hot rod kicking very well. 

 

Without having a premium pick in the first round (obviously turned that into Buckner), this draft is stacking up well comparatively. If Eason pans out down the road, Ballard will have the GM position locked for many many years to come.

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Too early to tell on any of them. Great potential so far though with the 3 early picks. Not much to go on with the later picks. 

 

Pittman - just starting to emerge, but likely the best bet (in terms of well rounded and long term consistency)

Taylor - just starting to look comfortable, still looks to be thinking too much which should improve with more reps.

Blackmon - beast vs what's in front of him. Hasn't been tested much deep in coverage, but has struggled a bit in the limited times.

Rodgers - Nice at times in returns/STs. Not a lot to go on for D.

 

Can't help but be positive overall. I'd love to see Pinter develop. We may have to wait a while on him, as well as Eason and Patmon. I don't expect a lot from Glasgow or Windsor, so anything we get there is just gravy.

 

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59 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Beat? Probably not, approach and get close to that level, yeah I can see it IF everyone continues their play 

 

We knew we had something special right away with Nelson and Leonard and we saw how bad the line is without Braden. Blackmon is special and Pittman and Taylor have shown flashes, but it just doesn't add up yet. Time will tell.

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9 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

We knew we had something special right away with Nelson and Leonard and we saw how bad the line is without Braden. Blackmon is special and Pittman and Taylor have shown flashes, but it just doesn't add up yet. Time will tell.

Agreed. Which is why I said IF they continue to play and improve

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1 hour ago, CR91 said:

2018 has potentially 2 HOFers. That's tough to be beat.


who is to say this class doesn’t? Blackmon is playing damn good ball right now. Is he putting up numbers like Leonard? Not exactly, but his importance to the success of this defense is up there. He’s a playmaker. Pittman is going to be a true Colts receiver and that means Hall of fame potential. Marvin, Reggie, TY... Pittman is going to be the #1 receiver for this team in the near future and that will be in that discussion so long as he has a good qb throwing to him. Taylor is going to be the bell cow for a team that wants to run the ball. Irsay said Mack would be a 1500 yard back. They WANT that. That’s why they pulled the trigger on Taylor. I’m not saying he’ll get there, but the potential is there and if he has a healthy career here and is putting up 12-1500 yards a year, he’ll be a top back and could be in HOF conversation. To say this class doesn’t “potentially” have HOF material is interesting. They have a ton of talent and in a great position to develop.

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1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Beat? Probably not, approach and get close to that level, yeah I can see it IF everyone continues their play 


Right.! They have 4 players on this class that are off to a strong start in Pittman, Taylor, Blackmon and Hot Rod. 
 

taylor and Blackmon got thrust into a role they weren’t necessarily supposed to be in with Mack and Hooker’s injuries. They have answered the call. Taylor’s coming out party was last Sunday. Reich just needs to stop playing the “hot hand” card. Get HIM hot early in every game. He’s that kind of back. 

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5 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:


who is to say this class doesn’t? Blackmon is playing damn good ball right now. Is he putting up numbers like Leonard? Not exactly, but his importance to the success of this defense is up there. He’s a playmaker. Pittman is going to be a true Colts receiver and that means Hall of fame potential. Marvin, Reggie, TY... Pittman is going to be the #1 receiver for this team in the near future and that will be in that discussion so long as he has a good qb throwing to him. Taylor is going to be the bell cow for a team that wants to run the ball. Irsay said Mack would be a 1500 yard back. They WANT that. That’s why they pulled the trigger on Taylor. I’m not saying he’ll get there, but the potential is there and if he has a healthy career here and is putting up 12-1500 yards a year, he’ll be a top back and could be in HOF conversation. To say this class doesn’t “potentially” have HOF material is interesting. They have a ton of talent and in a great position to develop.

 

Again you hope that is the case, but you don't know yet. So far we've only seen flashes. Blackmon is for real, but the jury is still out for Pittman and Taylor

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32 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Again you hope that is the case, but you don't know yet. So far we've only seen flashes. Blackmon is for real, but the jury is still out for Pittman and Taylor

I wouldn’t bet against Pittman.  Tough aggressive blocker and now showing flashes in receiving. 

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52 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Again you hope that is the case, but you don't know yet. So far we've only seen flashes. Blackmon is for real, but the jury is still out for Pittman and Taylor


You don't know that Leonard and Nelson are either do you? We've seen Darius Leonard and the numbers he puts up, but we've also seen a Leonard that hasn't been great at times. He makes huge plays and puts up gigantic numbers. He's well on his way, but we don't know what his career will make of. It goes the same for Blackmon and the rest. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I wouldn’t bet against Pittman.  Tough aggressive blocker and now showing flashes in receiving. 


Pittman is exactly what Frank Reich wanted. His dad was a super bowl winning runningback, and Jr. has the size and athleticism to compete against anyone. We should be very fortunate to have Pittman... 

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3 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:


solely based on rookie years... Blackmon is playing at Leonard’s level and could very well be DPOY. Pittman and Taylor are starting contributors who looked damn good last game. Special team players making big plays in Rodgers and Glasgow, not to mention undrafted hot rod kicking very well. 

 

Without having a premium pick in the first round (obviously turned that into Buckner), this draft is stacking up well comparatively. If Eason pans out down the road, Ballard will have the GM position locked for many many years to come.

 

Let's wait for Ballard to get to a .500 overall record and maybe make a playoff run before we crown him king of all time. Lol.

The key to Ballard's/colts success is how our QB situation will be rectified in 2021 or 2022 depending  if Rivers returns. 

The AFC is full of good young QB's and the Jets &  division rival Jags are poised to add Elite talent to the position. Trying to compete with them for Championships with a average/below average QB will be uphill struggle. 

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35 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:


You don't know that Leonard and Nelson are either do you? We've seen Darius Leonard and the numbers he puts up, but we've also seen a Leonard that hasn't been great at times. He makes huge plays and puts up gigantic numbers. He's well on his way, but we don't know what his career will make of. It goes the same for Blackmon and the rest. 

 

 


Pittman is exactly what Frank Reich wanted. His dad was a super bowl winning runningback, and Jr. has the size and athleticism to compete against anyone. We should be very fortunate to have Pittman... 

 

Did you see how bad the defense was when Leonard was out? He's the reason our defense has played at the level they have this year.

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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Too early to tell on any of them. Great potential so far though with the 3 early picks. Not much to go on with the later picks. 

 

Pittman - just starting to emerge, but likely the best bet (in terms of well rounded and long term consistency)

Taylor - just starting to look comfortable, still looks to be thinking too much which should improve with more reps.

Blackmon - beast vs what's in front of him. Hasn't been tested much deep in coverage, but has struggled a bit in the limited times.

Rodgers - Nice at times in returns/STs. Not a lot to go on for D.

 

Can't help but be positive overall. I'd love to see Pinter develop. We may have to wait a while on him, as well as Eason and Patmon. I don't expect a lot from Glasgow or Windsor, so anything we get there is just gravy.

 

 

Agree on all these. 

 

If we're counting UDFA, I actually really like Harris and Blankenship (so far).  I'd also add in that Glasgow has been a meaningful ST player (nice to get some immediate value from that pick). 

 

I'm also curious to see how Pinter pans out as OL depth, as well. 

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30 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

Agree on all these. 

 

If we're counting UDFA, I actually really like Harris and Blankenship (so far).  I'd also add in that Glasgow has been a meaningful ST player (nice to get some immediate value from that pick). 

 

I'm also curious to see how Pinter pans out as OL depth, as well. 

Yes, love the limited stuff from Harris. I really want to see more routes from him, but overall, love what he's doing. I'd love for him to be a long term answer at slot if Campbell moves to Z. 

 

I'm up in the air on specs. I need to see him hit some long ones, as well as some additional clutch kicks. Glasgow, like I said, I just don't expect much from. Doubt he's ever a contributor on D, but if he kills it on ST, I'm happy. 

 

A buddy of mine (a Ball State grad/fan), thinks Pinter develops into a RT, and the Colts will eventually move Smith over to LT (when AC retires), and let Pinter take RT. I don't know about all that, but I do agree Pinter might develop into more than we think. 

 

I think Pittman will develop into a long term and consistent WR for us. I know he's just starting to emerge, but he just has the look. Good/willing blocker, good hands, etc.. He might not be the 50/50 guy I want, but I also think he might be better at in-stride catching than I thought. 

 

JT, I think he'll be fine once he gets acclimated and use to the run blocking scheme. I don't want to diminish his talent, but most RBs should be able to be successful behind our OL, and he's better than most. 

 

Blackmon is the most interesting to me. He's always been a hammer which I love. He's struggled though in coverage in college, and as we saw, got burnt deep a few games ago. Not sure if he's too aggressive forward, or just struggles with coverage and range. I hope it's just aggressiveness. It definitely helped him when they moved him from CB to S in college, but at the same time, Utah ran a ton of man, which we do not. Love most of what I've seen thus far. I just hope it's not a case where teams get film on him, and start testing him deep a lot. We've been fortunate to play some bad Os early that simply don't go deep a bunch. Will be interesting to follow.

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1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Let's wait for Ballard to get to a .500 overall record and maybe make a playoff run before we crown him king of all time. Lol.

The key to Ballard's/colts success is how our QB situation will be rectified in 2021 or 2022 depending  if Rivers returns. 

The AFC is full of good young QB's and the Jets &  division rival Jags are poised to add Elite talent to the position. Trying to compete with them for Championships with a average/below average QB will be uphill struggle. 

Nothing against you and I like you as a poster but counting Ballard's 2017 season is a stretch. I realize he was the GM that year (1st year) but he didn't have the Coach he wanted and Luck was out for the year. We went 4-12 that year so his record is a bit skewed because of that. Others have posted the same thing about Ballard's record so you are not the only one and I just don't see how anyone can count that season legitimately. I pretty much go by 2018-this year when he hired Frank and his record would be 25-19 counting the playoffs. Is he the best GM in the league, probably not but he is good. He is responsible for drafting Nelson, Leonard, Mack, signing Houston, signing Rivers and trading for Buckner = great work there. Luck just retiring on the team and McDaniels dissing him even made his job that much harder. 

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4 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

They have contributed as much their rookie year as the entire group maybe by end of the season, but I doubt there's even a tiny chance of 2 all pros. Even 1 is a major stretch.  I am not sure we have any all pro's on the team since the most deserving one is Buckner (who I count as our first round pick in every way) has impact but no stats to wow anyone not intimately aware of his impact. If he misses this game we may painfully see how valuable.  But their collective impact has certainly added up. 4 starters and 2 solid special teamers in a so far playoff level team is quite a haul for any draft pick class in history.  It is at least adjacent to 2018, unless you don't count Buckner in any way.

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5 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Did you see how bad the defense was when Leonard was out? He's the reason our defense has played at the level they have this year.


That’s the importance of his position in this defense. We are about to see the importance of the 3T/Buckner this weekend too... I’m not discrediting that or him. I know... I’m saying Blackmon has a very similar effect. 

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6 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Let's wait for Ballard to get to a .500 overall record and maybe make a playoff run before we crown him king of all time. Lol.


this is just lazy analysis... Let’s talk about how Grigson was a better drafter and roster builder because he had a better record!! 
 

Come on man. Ballard has this roster in damn near perfect shape for the next decade aside from the QB spot, and that’s only due to the franchise qb giving up on the game because the previous GM nearly got him killed. 

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

There is really nobody else I would want right now for my GM. I really trust Ballard, he isn't perfect but he is good at worse, potentially great IMO.


no one is perfect... but very few are as good as Ballard. He’s held the philosophy of building through the draft from day 1, and “stacking drafts” which is exactly what he’s done, and why we have one of the most well rounded rosters we have ever had... and are sitting in the financial shape with the cap space to retain the players we want to retain. 

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Just now, ColtStrong2013 said:


no one is perfect... but very few are as good as Ballard. He’s held the philosophy of building through the draft from day 1, and “stacking drafts” which is exactly what he’s done, and why we have one of the most well rounded rosters we have ever had... and are sitting in the financial shape with the cap space to retain the players we want to retain. 

Yeah I do a lot of lists and haven't done a GM list for 2020 but he is in my top 5 without thinking so that in itself is very good. He is great with the cap and is nifty at signing free agents like the Houston signing for example. His drafting is solid for the most part. Like you said nobody is perfect, that is obviously impossible for anyone :thmup:.

 

Some people complain about JB making so much money but IMO I say who cares, after this year JB is off the books anyway. Having a great backup QB is just smart.

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15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I do a lot of lists and haven't done a GM list for 2020 but he is in my top 5 without thinking so that in itself is very good. He is great with the cap and is nifty at signing free agents like the Houston signing for example. His drafting is solid for the most part. Like you said nobody is perfect, that is obviously impossible for anyone :thmup:.

 

Some people complain about JB making so much money but IMO I say who cares, after this year JB is off the books anyway. Having a great backup QB is just smart.


jacoby was paid to be a starting qb last year... It was a low risk move rewarding him for being thrown into the spot after Luck’s decision. Ballard has preached taking care of guys that earn it. Jacoby earned it being a leader in the locker room. He is set for life (as long as he takes care of his money) for being a qb for one season... That move doesn’t affect us at all this year. Not one bit.  But it does give Ballard a lot of credibility when it comes to taking care of guys that deserve it.

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3 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:


jacoby was paid to be a starting qb last year... It was a low risk move rewarding him for being thrown into the spot after Luck’s decision. Ballard has preached taking care of guys that earn it. Jacoby earned it being a leader in the locker room. He is set for life (as long as he takes care of his money) for being a qb for one season... That move doesn’t affect us at all this year. Not one bit. 

I agree, I love having JB on the team. Every time he comes in I find it entertaining and cool. He is such a team player and the perfect backup QB. When I think of JB I think of leader. He was never a starting QB that was going to go 11-5 and I knew that (everyone else should've instead of bashing the guy), Luck put us in a bad situation, JB can still win some games though as a starter.

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The 2020 Colts Draft Class is looking very good... To say it compares with 2018... That's a little far-fetched. 

 

Some young Colts are starting to make a name though. 

 

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nfl/defensive-rookie-year-odds/

 

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nfl/offensive-rookie-year-odds/

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

The 2020 Colts Draft Class is looking very good... To say it compares with 2018... That's a little far-fetched. 

 

Some young Colts are starting to make a name though. 

 

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nfl/defensive-rookie-year-odds/

 

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nfl/offensive-rookie-year-odds/

 

 

 

 

 

 


In terms of contributions and impact, by season end I think most will agree it stacks up. Taylor and Pittman didn’t get the start that Leonard and Nelson did, but they will finish looking like #1’s on this offense...

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15 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:


In terms of contributions and impact, by season end I think most will agree it stacks up. Taylor and Pittman didn’t get the start that Leonard and Nelson did, but they will finish looking like #1’s on this offense...


I’m not disagreeing that the Colts 2020 draft class is very good. However, there have only been a handful of draft classes throughout NFL history that stack up against the Colts 2018 draft class. 
 

If people really think the Colts 2020 draft class is in the same league as the 2018 Colts draft class then they are extremely undervaluing the Colts 2018 draft class. 

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2 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:


I’m not disagreeing that the Colts 2020 draft class is very good. However, there have only been a handful of draft classes throughout NFL history that stack up against the Colts 2018 draft class. 
 

If people really think the Colts 2020 draft class is in the same league as the 2018 Colts draft class then they are extremely undervaluing the Colts 2018 draft class. 


What made the 2018 class more valuable than just Nelson and Leonard, was that we loaded up on picks and turned it into much much more than that. But Turay, Lewis, and the rest of that class is still a huge question mark, so I don’t think it’s unfair to say the potential of this class is up there. That’s all I ever said. The potential is there for them to be as big for this organization as that class was. Solely for the offensive production Pittman and Taylor could bring for the next 6-10 years. 

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Not even really close. Blackmon is likely the only one of those 3 to find himself on an All-Rookie team...let alone an All-Pro or Pro Bowl team like Leonard and Nelson. Leonard was DROY and Nelson even got a OROY vote too. Smith solidified the RT position as the final piece in an OL renaissance.
 

Blackmon has shown a knack for clutch TOs like Leonard did/does...but he’s more Braden Smith level (despite the different position)...a possible top 10 guy at his position. Impressive nonetheless...Leonard and Nelson were top 3-4 guys at their positions immediately. 

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5 hours ago, shasta519 said:

Not even really close. Blackmon is likely the only one of those 3 to find himself on an All-Rookie team...let alone an All-Pro or Pro Bowl team like Leonard and Nelson. Leonard was DROY and Nelson even got a OROY vote too. Smith solidified the RT position as the final piece in an OL renaissance.
 

Blackmon has shown a knack for clutch TOs like Leonard did/does...but he’s more Braden Smith level (despite the different position)...a possible top 10 guy at his position. Impressive nonetheless...Leonard and Nelson were top 3-4 guys at their positions immediately. 


by seasons end, it will be very close... 

 

you didn’t even mention Pittman or Taylor in that comment, which is concerning after their performances last week. They will be our go-to’s offensively for years... 

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On 11/27/2020 at 1:20 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Nothing against you and I like you as a poster but counting Ballard's 2017 season is a stretch. I realize he was the GM that year (1st year) but he didn't have the Coach he wanted and Luck was out for the year. We went 4-12 that year so his record is a bit skewed because of that. Others have posted the same thing about Ballard's record so you are not the only one and I just don't see how anyone can count that season legitimately. I pretty much go by 2018-this year when he hired Frank and his record would be 25-19 counting the playoffs. Is he the best GM in the league, probably not but he is good. He is responsible for drafting Nelson, Leonard, Mack, signing Houston, signing Rivers and trading for Buckner = great work there. Luck just retiring on the team and McDaniels dissing him even made his job that much harder. 

 

On 11/27/2020 at 5:53 AM, ColtStrong2013 said:


this is just lazy analysis... Let’s talk about how Grigson was a better drafter and roster builder because he had a better record!! 
 

Come on man. Ballard has this roster in damn near perfect shape for the next decade aside from the QB spot, and that’s only due to the franchise qb giving up on the game because the previous GM nearly got him 

 

  I understand there's a lot of homerism here and seeing things through rose colored glasses and ignoring things that aren't great and making excuses about inheriting Griggs roster & Pagano, and blaming '17 draft class on not having his scouts AND Luck retiring. There's probably similar bias on every teams forums. And that's fine, Fans is short of Fanatics.  And that's what we are.

 

Here's the thing tho, are we good? .. Yes.

We're tied for 1st place(record). So why does our 7-3 record make Ballard the King of GM's of all time like so many say around here?

We're 1 of 8 division leaders. Why isn't the Steelers GM,who are 10-0 despite losing superstars Bell & Brown recently mentioned up there with Ballard here? I heard a talking head last season say it will take 3 or 4 years to rebuild. And now over night they are undefeated and a serious super bowl threat.

 

The Ravens are always known for good rosters. Why is Ballard considered so much better than him?

 

KC are super bowl champs and are loaded, a 9-1 record, a excellent coach and have the Best QB in football in place for the next decade!!! 

 

The team we're tied with, Titans, dont have a elite or franchise qb, yet they are doing well this year and made the AFCCG last season. Whoever is calling the shots there isn't doing so bad, is he?

 

The Dolphins tanked last year and overnight are playoff contenders this season with a rookie Franchise QB for next decade. Their GM isn't stinking up the joint, huh?

 

Buffalo is leading their division  with a good roster I hear and have their QB in place. I'm not crazy about Allen but I wouldn't mind him going forward. They've been decent/good for several years, so I guess their GM is doing ok too?

 

Mayock inherited a Dumster Fire yet he's turned that team around in a short time and the organization hired a proven SB winning HC.

 

The Pat's went to like 15 straight AFCCG's so some credit I guess is due to Belichek the GM? Or was it just

 from coaching/cheating? Lol

 

SF was at the bottom not too long ago and built up right away and went to a super bowl.  Not bad by their GM.

 

Seahawks are a playoff/top team practically every season and have one of the Top Offenses in football. 

 

Cardinals, like 49ers were at the bottom not too long ago. Now they have a good team and a Franchise if not Elite QB for the next decade!!!

 

Who's calling the shots in New Orleans? Is it Payton? Whoever it is has them as one of the best teams in football every season. 

 

So like I said above we're doing well. But other teams, other GM's are doing well also. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

 

  I understand there's a lot of homerism here and seeing things through rose colored glasses and ignoring things that aren't great and making excuses about inheriting Griggs roster & Pagano, and blaming '17 draft class on not having his scouts AND Luck retiring. There's probably similar bias on every teams forums. And that's fine, Fans is short of Fanatics.  And that's what we are.

 

Here's the thing tho, are we good? .. Yes.

We're tied for 1st place(record). So why does our 7-3 record make Ballard the King of GM's of all time like so many say around here?

We're 1 of 8 division leaders. Why isn't the Steelers GM,who are 10-0 despite losing superstars Bell & Brown recently mentioned up there with Ballard here? I heard a talking head last season say it will take 3 or 4 years to rebuild. And now over night they are undefeated and a serious super bowl threat.

 

The Ravens are always known for good rosters. Why is Ballard considered so much better than him?

 

KC are super bowl champs and are loaded, a 9-1 record, a excellent coach and have the Best QB in football in place for the next decade!!! 

 

The team we're tied with, Titans, dont have a elite or franchise qb, yet they are doing well this year and made the AFCCG last season. Whoever is calling the shots there isn't doing so bad, is he?

 

The Dolphins tanked last year and overnight are playoff contenders this season with a rookie Franchise QB for next decade. Their GM isn't stinking up the joint, huh?

 

Buffalo is leading their division  with a good roster I hear and have their QB in place. I'm not crazy about Allen but I wouldn't mind him going forward. They've been decent/good for several years, so I guess their GM is doing ok too?

 

Mayock inherited a Dumster Fire yet he's turned that team around in a short time and the organization hired a proven SB winning HC.

 

The Pat's went to like 15 straight AFCCG's so some credit I guess is due to Belichek the GM? Or was it just

 from coaching/cheating? Lol

 

SF was at the bottom not too long ago and built up right away and went to a super bowl.  Not bad by their GM.

 

Seahawks are a playoff/top team practically every season and have one of the Top Offenses in football. 

 

Cardinals, like 49ers were at the bottom not too long ago. Now they have a good team and a Franchise if not Elite QB for the next decade!!!

 

Who's calling the shots in New Orleans? Is it Payton? Whoever it is has them as one of the best teams in football every season. 

 

So like I said above we're doing well. But other teams, other GM's are doing well also. 

 

 

I don't think Ballard is the best but he is in my top 5. KC and Pittsburgh have great GM's like you said, hard to argue any organization is ran better than those 2 at the moment. Other than those 2, Ballard is right there. I do like what Miami is doing as well, they have a very good coach.

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18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't think Ballard is the best but he is in my top 5. KC and Pittsburgh have great GM's like you said, hard to argue any organization is ran better than those 2 at the moment. Other than those 2, Ballard is right there. I do like what Miami is doing as well, they have a very good 

 

What you say is totally understandable,  a case can be made he's currently one of the better GM's.  But it's the ones that say he's Best by far and the greatest of all time etc... that comes off as total fantasy to put it nicely.

 

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13 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

What you say is totally understandable,  a case can be made he's currently one of the better GM's.  But it's the ones that say he's Best by far and the greatest of all time etc... that comes off as total fantasy to put it nicely.

 

Oh I get that, I don't think he is the best and I can be a Homer at times lmao I said Homer happy homer simpson GIF- but he is good. I am not sold on Eason yet for example but none of us have seen him play so that pick is still a mystery. JB and Rivers both will be off the books after this year. Ballard is great regarding the Salary Cap.

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On 11/26/2020 at 7:39 PM, CR91 said:

2018 has potentially 2 HOFers. That's tough to be beat.

 

Typically to be a HOFer you have to be dominant for ~a decade.  Leonard and Q are ~2.5 years into their careers (about a quarter of the way there).  Leonard has not played 16 games in a season yet, which is somewhat concerning to me.  This year, while he and Q both look very good, I don't think either is deserving of an all-pro award.  

 

So yes, very impressive that Q has been 1st team all-pro 2x and Leonard has a 1st and 2nd team all-pro under his belt.  That is very rare (Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus are the only other 2 teammates who made 1st team all-pro as rookies).  In no way am I knocking Q or Leonard, they're both critical pieces to this team and at the elite level in the NFL at their respective positions.  Labeling them as HOFers this early into their career is a bit of a stretch, though -- let's give them another 3.5-4 years to see if they're still healthy and performing at an all-pro level.  They're certainly off to a good start, but there are a lot of players who have made 2 all-pro teams in their career and are not HOFers (heck, LeRoy Butler was a 4x 1st-team all-pro and has been eligible for HOF induction for ~15 years and isn't in, Steve Wisniewski was 2x 1st team, 6x 2nd team and not in, etc.).  Also, the vast majority of HOFers were not first team all-pro as rookies.  These 2020 rookies are in perhaps the strangest year of the modern era, with limited training camps, no pre-season games, missing games due to COVID (see Taylor), etc.... Pittman, Taylor, Blackmon have all shown flashes of excellence and all have had their own obstacles on top of a weird off-season as rookies (Blackmon coming off injury getting thrown into starting line-up due to HOoker going down, Taylor having Mack go down and now missing a game on the COVID list, and Pittman with compartment syndrome).   No reason to expect any of them to be HOFers, but also no reason why if they stay healthy and continue improving that we don't start talking about them being at the HOF level in 4-5 more years.  

 

In all honesty, it is way too early to tell if this class will stack up to the 2018 class.  We really won't know for another 4-5 years when we see which guys from the 2018 draft are given/not given contract extensions and when the current class is at the same point. 

 

On 11/26/2020 at 8:02 PM, csmopar said:

Beat? Probably not, approach and get close to that level, yeah I can see it IF everyone continues their play 

 

As far as just judging by rookie season alone, it's not unreasonable to think it won't be another >30 years before we see rookie teammates on the first team all-pro squad together (believe Butkus and Sayers was 1965).  That said, aside from Q and Leonard we got solid contributions from Smith and Hines on O, saw solid ST contributions from Franklin and Adams (with Franklin playing a minimal D role as a fill-in starter 2 games and Adams basically invisible on D), got very little from Turay and Lewis and basically nothing from Fountain, Cain.  Wilkins was OK as a 3rd RB and OK as a kick returner and our only UDFA who did anything noteworthy wad Odum as a solid STer and with a couple decent starts when he was needed due to injury.   Overall we had 4 of 11 picks (or 4 of 12 rookies who contributed) who really didn't do much as rookies (33% vs. 66% percent who contributed significantly in some aspect of the game).  

 

So in short, the 2018 class as rookies had 2 studs (Q and Leonard), 2 guys who contributed solidly on O (Hines and Smith), 4 solid ST contributors (Odum, Adams, Franklin, Wilkins), 4 guys who really did nothing (Turay, Lewis, Cain, Fountain).   Three years later, we still have 2 studs (Q and Leonard), 1 very solid RT (Smith),  2 guys who are doing well in a RB rotation (Hines and Wilkins), 2 unknowns on the DL (Lewis and Turay - by far Lewis' best year, but he hasn't really been great), and 3 solid STers (Odum, Franklin, Adams and 4 if you count Hines).   Then we have Cain (gone) and Fountain (still pretty much doing nothing).  Again, about 2/3 of these guys are still contributing solidly in some way on the team, with the other 1/3 still unknown or not doing much (Turay started to come on last year and Lewis is recently coming on this year, so if they both continue, we may see 83% of that class as solid contributors moving forward).  

 

The 2020 class as rookies -- we have 1 borderline stud (Blackmon), 2 very solid  O contributors (Taylor and Pittman), 3 very solid ST contributors (Rodgers, Glasgow, Blankenship), 1 guy who has been OK in a pinch as a backup or extra lineman (Pinter), 1 guy who has made the active roster after mostly being on the PS (Windsor - IMO, he's about as valuable to this year's team as Lewis was at the same point in 2018), 1 guy who has been very solid the past few weeks (Harris) and 2 guys (Eason and Patmon) who have been on the roster but inactive.  That puts us at 7 or 8 guys who have been solid contributors out of 11 as rookies (63% or 72%) and 3 or 4 guys (Eason, Patmon, Windsor, maybe Pinter) for a total of 27-36% of rookies who are not doing much at this point of the season (this could change moving forward if Pinter has to fill in for Kelly for a while and/or if Windsor takes on a bigger role down the stretch, it is not coincidence to me that he was activated the week we cut Day).  So right now, we're looking at 30-40% of our rookies not producing too much, but this could change to 20% (assuming Eason and Patmon don't play this year and Pinter and Windsor see increasing roles).  

 

Overall, Ballard is >60% in both drafts in terms of having productive players as rookies.  It is very unlikely we'll see any team have 2 first team all-pros as rookies again in the near future (or ever).  We may see a DROY from the 2020 draft class like we saw in the 2018 draft class on this team.  Both Leonard and Blackmon have been criticized for being picked too early, etc... Ballard has proven those doubters wrong.  

 

When we look back in a few years, if Eason is a franchise QB and Pittman and Patmon are a solid WR duo (perhaps Harris is still performing well), Taylor is a bellcow >1,200 yard rusher, Blackmon is an all-pro, Pinter is a starter (RG or RT), Rodgers is giving us a TD or more per year as a return guy, Glasgow is a solid STer, Hot Rod is a probowl K, and Windsor is still in the DL rotation and this draft could be better than the 2018 draft.  Again, too early to tell.  If we want to consider Buckner a part of the 2020 draft (the 13th pick), I think there's a good argument that the 2020 draft will exceed the 2018 draft.

 

Also, something to keep in mind -- our team was in very bad shape when Ballard took over.  In 2017, he was drafting for a team with a coach we pretty much all knew was going to be gone in a year.  In 2018, it was a lot easier to get significant playing time on the roster (at least IMO) because it was so bad.  In a short time, Ballard has put a lot of solid pieces together and this team is a much more difficult team to make the final roster, let alone get significant playing time as a rookie.

 

On 11/26/2020 at 11:51 PM, EastStreet said:

Blackmon is the most interesting to me. He's always been a hammer which I love. He's struggled though in coverage in college, and as we saw, got burnt deep a few games ago. Not sure if he's too aggressive forward, or just struggles with coverage and range. I hope it's just aggressiveness. It definitely helped him when they moved him from CB to S in college, but at the same time, Utah ran a ton of man, which we do not. Love most of what I've seen thus far. I just hope it's not a case where teams get film on him, and start testing him deep a lot. We've been fortunate to play some bad Os early that simply don't go deep a bunch. Will be interesting to follow.

 

I agree with you on your Blackmon assessment.  It'd be cool if he got DROY... and he has made several key plays at critical times (e.g., forced fumble in OT last week)... but he's not perfect.  TBH, I think it was kind of disappointing that the long ball from Rodgers to MVS was not broken up near the end of the 4th quarter.  Blackmon was a step or two behind, but I think most very high end safeties would have broken that play up.

 

On 11/27/2020 at 12:20 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Nothing against you and I like you as a poster but counting Ballard's 2017 season is a stretch. I realize he was the GM that year (1st year) but he didn't have the Coach he wanted and Luck was out for the year. We went 4-12 that year so his record is a bit skewed because of that. Others have posted the same thing about Ballard's record so you are not the only one and I just don't see how anyone can count that season legitimately. I pretty much go by 2018-this year when he hired Frank and his record would be 25-19 counting the playoffs. Is he the best GM in the league, probably not but he is good. He is responsible for drafting Nelson, Leonard, Mack, signing Houston, signing Rivers and trading for Buckner = great work there. Luck just retiring on the team and McDaniels dissing him even made his job that much harder. 

 

McDaniels dissing Ballard may have actually made Ballard's job easier.  I think Reich was the right guy for this team and after seeing Patricia fired from DET, and looking at stats of Belichick's coordinators who went on to head coaching jobs, they have a pretty poor track record.

 

On 11/27/2020 at 12:32 AM, JPFolks said:

They have contributed as much their rookie year as the entire group maybe by end of the season, but I doubt there's even a tiny chance of 2 all pros. Even 1 is a major stretch.  I am not sure we have any all pro's on the team since the most deserving one is Buckner (who I count as our first round pick in every way) has impact but no stats to wow anyone not intimately aware of his impact. If he misses this game we may painfully see how valuable.  But their collective impact has certainly added up. 4 starters and 2 solid special teamers in a so far playoff level team is quite a haul for any draft pick class in history.  It is at least adjacent to 2018, unless you don't count Buckner in any way.

 

Yes, I think Q and Leonard's play has been solid this year, but I don't think either of them deserve to be all-pros (at least not 1st team).  Won't be shocked if Q gets selected though, mainly because of his name and the fact Baldy and other reporters like to really focus on his positive plays.  He's been beaten more this year than I can remember (which is still not a lot) and has more holds than I remember in his first 2 years.  

 

Agree, the most deserving of all-pro on this roster is Buckner (though, I can't see him getting the nod due to lack of stats and the fact that Donald and other interior DL in the league are playing at very high levels).  Second most deserving, IMO, is Hot Rod -- he's likely to be leading the league in points scored after tomorrow's game.  Just hit a big game winner.  Has a solid chance of ending the season >90% FG made and leading the league in points scored -- it'd be hard to vote against him for at least 2nd team K if he finishes the year >90% FG made and leads league in points.

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Oh I get that, I don't think he is the best and I can be a Homer at times lmao I said Homer happy homer simpson GIF- but he is good. I am not sold on Eason yet for example but none of us have seen him play so that pick is still a mystery. JB and Rivers both will be off the books after this year. Ballard is great regarding the Salary Cap.

 

If I had to guess, Rivers will be back on the books.

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