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A lot of good debate and chat in here today it looks like. I just got caught up and read every post. While I will agree the Defense and SP Teams is the strength of this team, Rivers has still played good at times and deserves credit for helping us win. With JB or Eason at QB we don't beat GB, that is my opinion and I think most would agree. We would not be 7-3 either. Anyone that watches football knows the media for the most part always blames the QB for losses and praises him when he wins. Not saying it is right but it has been like that since I started watching football in the late 70's. This year is totally different than last year, Rivers is better than JB and has more capability from bringing us from behind and beating good QB's. If anyone tries to say we are winning despite Rivers, I am not buying that. Saying that about JB last year was buyable for example and I like JB. 

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Several posters are so against bringing Rivers back for 1 more year.    This is the 2nd time  (Bengals) he has led HUGE double digit comeback.    Are you more open to another River

I don’t mean to split hairs....   But while freely admitting 2020 Rivers isn’t 2010 Rivers or even 2018 Rivers, he’s certainly much better than 2019 Rivers.  He’s having a very good year, an

I’m definitely not opposed to it. Ask me in 8 weeks

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Yeah, I'm fine with bringing Rivers back for another year providing he is healthy enough to play.

I could not stand to see Brissett at QB for the Colts...it would make me stop watching the games...I would just watch the best other games on TV.  I have been a Colts fan since the 60s.

 

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A lot of good debate and chat in here today it looks like. I just got caught up and read every post. While I will agree the Defense and SP Teams is the strength of this team, Rivers has still played good at times and deserves credit for helping us win. With JB or Eason at QB we don't beat GB, that is my opinion and I think most would agree. We would not be 7-3 either. Anyone that watches football knows the media for the most part always blames the QB for losses and praises him when he wins. Not saying it is right but it has been like that since I started watching football in the late 70's. This year is totally different than last year, Rivers is better than JB and has more capability from bringing us from behind and beating good QB's. If anyone tries to say we are winning despite Rivers, I am not buying that. Saying that about JB last year was buyable for example and I like JB. 

Here's my thinking 

 

21 Rivers Eason 

22 Eason or someone else 

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2 hours ago, PrNum1 said:

Yes its Rivers that has this team at 7-3.

 

Did you not watch the Bengals game down 21-0 and see Rivers lead an amazing comeback ?

 

Did you not watch the the lions game and see Rivers put up 3 TDs in the SECOND quarter ?

 

Did you not see Rivers leading us to victory over the titans on the road ?

 

Did you not see us down 28-14 in the FIRST HALF of the GB game and Rivers pick this team up and carry us on his shoulders for an amazing comeback win ? The defense that gave up 28 points in the FIRST HALF ???

 

Rivers is directly responsible for us being 7-3, no one else.

 

What is it with you hardened Colts fans ? All you all have ever done is trash Rivers at every opportunity when all he has ever done is played his heart out for this team. 

 

Let me say this. Andrew Luck is not walking through that door.  Peyton Manning is not walking through that door.

 

What is it going to take for some of you Colts fans to start supporting Rivers and giving him the credit he deserves?

 

Let me turn this question back on you. What would the Colts record be without Philip Rivers ?

 

Nice speech. 

 

Now why don't you scroll up and read the other posts in this thread? Then maybe you'll see how nonsensical this post was. 

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Nice speech. 

 

Now why don't you scroll up and read the other posts in this thread? Then maybe you'll see how nonsensical this post was. 

I think some are taking what you are posting out of context which isn't fair. I know what you are saying, the QB shouldn't get all the credit for wins. I agree but I will say Rivers is playing well and I don't think we beat GB without him. I just hope he continues to play well and our Defense and SP Teams continue to be good to great. The Tennessee game will be another nice test.

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6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Nice speech. 

 

Now why don't you scroll up and read the other posts in this thread? Then maybe you'll see how nonsensical this post was. 

This type of post is why I think it’s funny when you get offended by someone else’s post and why I occasionally bandy about the term self righteous. 

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13 hours ago, gspdx said:

I would even mind seeing Kaepernick get a look.

Hard pass! He hasn't played in the league in 4 years, and he stunk back then, going 1-11 and getting beaten out by journeyman Blaine Gabbert, before opting out of his contract with the 49ers.

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2 hours ago, Lancer1 said:

Hard pass! He hasn't played in the league in 4 years, and he stunk back then, going 1-11 and getting beaten out by journeyman Blaine Gabbert, before opting out of his contract with the 49ers.

 

I get it.  And I'm not a big fan of Kaepernick.  I am just saying if our mgmt doesn't think this team can win a Superbowl then I don't see any reason spending big money on a transitional QB.

 

Being 7-3 is nice and I am waiting to see if this team really comes together.  I think this team could make a run at a Superbowl and I want to see it.  And if they really compete this year in the playoffs then I would be interested in Rivers coming back.  But I will wait to see how the season plays out.

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55 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

I get it.  And I'm not a big fan of Kaepernick.  I am just saying if our mgmt doesn't think this team can win a Superbowl then I don't see any reason spending big money on a transitional QB.

 

Being 7-3 is nice and I am waiting to see if this team really comes together.  I think this team could make a run at a Superbowl and I want to see it.  And if they really compete this year in the playoffs then I would be interested in Rivers coming back.  But I will wait to see how the season plays out.

This weekend is a big one, if we win it we could probably play .500 ball the rest of the way and still win the AFC South.

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4 hours ago, Nickster said:

This type of post is why I think it’s funny when you get offended by someone else’s post and why I occasionally bandy about the term self righteous. 

 

When did I get offended? And what's self righteous about calling out someone's incorrect assumptions about me and my viewpoint?

 

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16 hours ago, krunk said:

Yeah i give this post a thumbs down and a ha ha face!


I wish I didn’t think it, but I do.

 

QB is one of the weaker positions on our roster.  I think that Rivers could overcome his poor mobility when he had good arm strength.  He no longer has good arm strength.  What success we’ve had this year is in spite of him, not because of him.

 

I don’t think JB is the answer.  But I do think we’d be a better team right now with him in there.

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45 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:


I wish I didn’t think it, but I do.

 

QB is one of the weaker positions on our roster.  I think that Rivers could overcome his poor mobility when he had good arm strength.  He no longer has good arm strength.  What success we’ve had this year is in spite of him, not because of him.

 

I don’t think JB is the answer.  But I do think we’d be a better team right now with him in there.

 

Just curious how Jacoby is better?

 

Jacoby 2019 #’s - 196 YPG, 1.2 TD avg

 

Rivers 2020 #’s - 268 YPG, 1.4 TD avg

 

Rivers has more INT than Jacoby, and they did affect the 3 losses, but you throw Jacoby in the Jags/Browns/Ravens game and I don’t see those turn into wins. 
 

In addition to that, Jacoby probably doesn’t bring you back from a 21 point deficit or 14 point deficit.  
 

Rivers isn’t playing at the top level of QB’s this year, but I see him as an upgrade to the offense.  

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On 11/22/2020 at 10:10 PM, CR91 said:

I'll admit, Rivers still has some strength in his arm, but how well he holds up in bad weather games in the playoffs if we get in like kansas city, buffalo, and pittsburgh will be a telling story.

Where at ? 

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35 minutes ago, SpanosSucks said:

 

Just curious how Jacoby is better?

 

Jacoby 2019 #’s - 196 YPG, 1.2 TD avg

 

Rivers 2020 #’s - 268 YPG, 1.4 TD avg

 

Rivers has more INT than Jacoby, and they did affect the 3 losses, but you throw Jacoby in the Jags/Browns/Ravens game and I don’t see those turn into wins. 
 

In addition to that, Jacoby probably doesn’t bring you back from a 21 point deficit or 14 point deficit.  
 

Rivers isn’t playing at the top level of QB’s this year, but I see him as an upgrade to the offense.  

Simple math Rivers has helped the Colts win games they wouldn’t have won with Jacoby and I don’t think the Colts would have won any of the three games they lost with Jacoby over Rivers.  MAYBE the Jags game but that’s it.  Despite what some want to admit there were other issues in those loses beyond QB play.

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33 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Simple math Rivers has helped the Colts win games they wouldn’t have won with Jacoby and I don’t think the Colts would have won any of the three games they lost with Jacoby over Rivers.  MAYBE the Jags game but that’s it.  Despite what some want to admit there were other issues in those loses beyond QB play.

 

Yep.  I believe Rivers takes blame for the first 2 losses, but not all the blame.  Elite teams find a way to win even with turnovers.  I think this team was set back a little with COVID & lack of pre-season.  But I believe with training camp and pre-season, this teams only loss this year would've been Ravens.  With the way they are playing now, I don't think they lose the Jags or Browns game.  But the defense and offense looked sloppy in those 2 games.  I think this team looks significantly better since the Bengals game.

 

As far as the Ravens game, Rivers threw an INT that shifted momentum, but there were still other glaring issues.  The run game was non-existent and even gave them 7 points on a fumble.  The offense just couldn't move the ball.  People are upset over this, but Ravens were a good team.  Even the undefeated Steelers had to force 4 turnovers just to beat them by 4.

 

From what I've seen from Jacoby, he's more of a game manager.  He won't throw that stupid INT into double coverage, but he's also not going to bring you back when you fall behind multiple scores.  I think we saw in last years Super Bowl, you can have the elite defense and run game(niners), but in the end you still need a QB who can bring you back and close a game out(KC).

 

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1 hour ago, SpanosSucks said:

 

Just curious how Jacoby is better?

 

Jacoby 2019 #’s - 196 YPG, 1.2 TD avg

 

Rivers 2020 #’s - 268 YPG, 1.4 TD avg

 

Rivers has more INT than Jacoby, and they did affect the 3 losses, but you throw Jacoby in the Jags/Browns/Ravens game and I don’t see those turn into wins. 
 

In addition to that, Jacoby probably doesn’t bring you back from a 21 point deficit or 14 point deficit.  
 

Rivers isn’t playing at the top level of QB’s this year, but I see him as an upgrade to the offense.  

 

Agreed, completely. No question that the offense is better because of Rivers. And that's without the really effective run game we enjoyed last season.

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2 hours ago, SpanosSucks said:

 

Just curious how Jacoby is better?

 

Jacoby 2019 #’s - 196 YPG, 1.2 TD avg

 

Rivers 2020 #’s - 268 YPG, 1.4 TD avg

 

Rivers has more INT than Jacoby, and they did affect the 3 losses, but you throw Jacoby in the Jags/Browns/Ravens game and I don’t see those turn into wins. 
 

In addition to that, Jacoby probably doesn’t bring you back from a 21 point deficit or 14 point deficit.  
 

Rivers isn’t playing at the top level of QB’s this year, but I see him as an upgrade to the offense.  

I think we’d be a better team with Jacoby than we are with Rivers.  Just comparing YPG stats doesn’t really speak to that.

 

Keep in mind, too, that JB got hurt last year.  And he wasn’t as effective after he came back, IMO.

 

I agree with you that JB is far more of a game manager type QB.  And I do think we’d be better with c. 2015 Philip Rivers than Brissett.  But that’s not who we have.  His mobility issues are a big problem and he just doesn’t have the arm to overcome them anymore.

 

Anyway, my first choice next year isn’t Brissett. Assuming Eason isn’t the guy, I think we should hit the market.  There’s a good chance that the Jets will go after Lawrence and, if they do, Darnold would become available.  And I think Darnold could be a lot better in a different situation.

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5 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

I think we’d be a better team with Jacoby than we are with Rivers.  Just comparing YPG stats doesn’t really speak to that.

 

Keep in mind, too, that JB got hurt last year.  And he wasn’t as effective after he came back, IMO.

 

I agree with you that JB is far more of a game manager type QB.  And I do think we’d be better with c. 2015 Philip Rivers than Brissett.  But that’s not who we have.  His mobility issues are a big problem and he just doesn’t have the arm to overcome them anymore.

 

Anyway, my first choice next year isn’t Brissett. Assuming Eason isn’t the guy, I think we should hit the market.  There’s a good chance that the Jets will go after Lawrence and, if they do, Darnold would become available.  And I think Darnold could be a lot better in a different situation.


You still didn’t answer the question, how is Jacoby better?

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On 11/25/2020 at 12:49 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:I think some are taking what you are posting out of context which isn't fair. I know what you are saying, the QB shouldn't get all the credit for wins. I agree but I will say Rivers is playing well and I don't think we beat GB without him. I just hope he continues to play well and our Defense and SP Teams continue to be good to great. The Tennessee game will be another nice test.

Oh trust me there is nothing I hate more than the QB win or QB loss.  That’s why I hate when people judge great QBs by super bowl rings.  Is anyone really going to try to argue Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino because he has a ring Dan doesn’t?  Super Bowl wins are team accomplishments and yes a lot of great teams have had great QBs but I don’t think I can point a QB who single handedly carried his team to a Super Bowl all year.  

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2 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

This team is much better with Rivers rather than Brissett.  JB is good in limited roles and I am glad we found a good role for him but I sincerely hope he isn't here in 2021.

I’d have no problem if he was here in 2021 just as long as he’s not the starter.  Look around the league you can do a lot worse than Jacoby as your backup.  

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15 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Oh trust me there is nothing I hate more than the QB win or QB loss.  That’s why I hate when people judge great QBs by super bowl rings.  Is anyone really going to try to argue Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino because he has a ring Dan doesn’t?  Super Bowl wins are team accomplishments and yes a lot of great teams have had great QBs but I don’t think I can point a QB who single handedly carried his team to a Super Bowl all year.  

It is just one of the factors that is for sure. Terry Bradshaw won 4 SB's but I would take Dan Marino over him and rank him higher. I think most great QB's should at least win 1 SB as a starter because that is a glaring miss in a resume. I wasn't completely happy with Peyton until he won in 2006. I am still shocked Marino never won one as I am Jim Kelly too.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is just one of the factors that is for sure. Terry Bradshaw won 4 SB's but I would take Dan Marino over him and rank him higher. I think most great QB's should at least 1 SB as a starter because that is a glaring miss in a resume. I wasn't completely happy with Peyton until he won in 2006. I am still shocked Marino never won one as I am Jim Kelly too.

Or Fran Tarkenton before them.  The thing about Super Bowls is you can be a great QB but if you have no team around you you aren’t going to win a Super Bowl.  That’s what happened to Marino for years.  How many other hall of farmers did he play with?  Not many.  So that’s why I don’t take it away from QBs if they don’t win a Super Bowl. It just means they didn’t play for a great team.  It doesn’t mean they weren’t great and Marino is probably the best example of that.  

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1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Or Fran Tarkenton before them.  The thing about Super Bowls is you can be a great QB but if you have no team around you you aren’t going to win a Super Bowl.  That’s what happened to Marino for years.  How many other hall of farmers did he play with?  Not many.  So that’s why I don’t take it away from QBs if they don’t win a Super Bowl. It just means they didn’t play for a great team.  It doesn’t mean they weren’t great and Marino is probably the best example of that.  

I do factor in SB wins while I agree SB wins are more of a team effort but Stats, Talent, and Longevity are a big part of rankings. Marino gets an A in all of them.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I do factor in SB wins while I agree SB wins are more of a team effort but Stats, Talent, and Longevity are a big part of rankings. Marino gets an A in all of them.

Yeah I guess I look at them like other accomplishments you might list on a resume.  They might help you if it’s close but you aren’t going to get a job just because of that thing if you aren’t qualified in other areas listed on a resume.

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3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yeah I guess I look at them like other accomplishments you might list on a resume.  They might help you if it’s close but you aren’t going to get a job just because of that thing if you aren’t qualified in other areas listed on a resume.

Yeah a QB like Dilfer isn't anywhere near as great as Marino was so it is a fine line but you compare Marino to Elway most say 2-0 lmao because they are pretty equal.

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah a QB like Dilfer isn't anywhere near as great as Marino was so it is a fine line but you compare Marino to Elway most say 2-0 lmao because they are pretty equal.

Yeah if you want to argue Elway was better there using Super Bowls would have some merit because you are talking about two guys who are on the same level to start with. I just have issues with people who view Super Bowls as end all be alls.  

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2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yeah if you want to argue Elway was better there using Super Bowls would have some merit because you are talking about two guys who are on the same level to start with. I just have issues with people who view Super Bowls as end all be alls.  

I agree it is not the end all. Just a factor when people do these lists. I would take Peyton over Brady. 

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58 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I think we all would 

Yeah I would probably go:

1. Peyton - has the stats, 2 SB wins with 2 different teams, 5 MVP's.

 

2. Tom Brady - has the stats and 6 SB wins. Most people have him #1, I did until Peyton won in Denver. The defense help carry Peyton but when a QB wins with 2 different teams that means he is the system, JMO. Tom Brady can win it all with BB but without him I doubt he wins 6. I still have him #2 as he is the most accomplished winner regardless.

 

3. Joe Montana - for his day his stats were great, 4 SB wins but no INT's in any of those games. He was the definition of clutch if you get him in the SB.

 

4. Johnny Unitas - for his day his stats were incredible, he won 2 NFL Championships = 1958 and 1959 and a SB in 1970 as a starter. He set the tone for every QB that came after him. Up until Montana he was the GOAT easily, JMO.

 

5. John Elway - IMO he could do it all, had incredible arm strength, could even run if he needed too. Had great stats for his day as well. His 2 SB wins at the end of his career was the cherry on top.

 

-That is still my top 5 after that I throw other names in there like Marino, Favre, Rodgers, Brees, etc..

 

-Rivers actually has an argument for top 20 based on his stats, talent, longevity being durable, and overall wins, JMO.

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9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is just one of the factors that is for sure. Terry Bradshaw won 4 SB's but I would take Dan Marino over him and rank him higher. I think most great QB's should at least win 1 SB as a starter because that is a glaring miss in a resume. I wasn't completely happy with Peyton until he won in 2006. I am still shocked Marino never won one as I am Jim Kelly too.


Although I agree that most great QB should at least win 1, I don’t think it’s a knock on them if they don’t.  Football is a true team game, and no one player can carry an entire team.  Had the Chargers not #ed up that 06 divisional round, it’s very likely Manning would’ve been a 2 time super bowl loser, with his only win coming at his statistically worst season in which he was carried by an elite D and solid run game.  Even then, I don’t think it would change where Manning stands in the rankings of the elite.  
 

Eli Manning doesn’t win 2 without that Defense.  Big Ben doesn’t win 2 without that defense.  

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10 minutes ago, SpanosSucks said:


Although I agree that most great QB should at least win 1, I don’t think it’s a knock on them if they don’t.  Football is a true team game, and no one player can carry an entire team.  Had the Chargers not #ed up that 06 divisional round, it’s very likely Manning would’ve been a 2 time super bowl loser, with his only win coming at his statistically worst season in which he was carried by an elite D and solid run game.  Even then, I don’t think it would change where Manning stands in the rankings of the elite.  
 

Eli Manning doesn’t win 2 without that Defense.  Big Ben doesn’t win 2 without that defense.  

I think not winning at least one SB just leaves a resume not completely full. I am sure it bugs Rivers even if he will never admit it and I consider Rivers a Hall of Famer. Marino has said it bothers him.  

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13 hours ago, SpanosSucks said:


You still didn’t answer the question, how is Jacoby better?


I didn’t answer that question because it’s not the exact assertion I made.  I said we’d be a better team with Jacoby under center.

 

That said, I think that Brissett has significantly better arm strength, significantly better mobility, and significantly better ability to extend plays through contact than Rivers.

 

I think too much of the down thoughts on Brissett were developed after his injury last year.  He’s better judged on what he did prior to that.

 

But, again, I want to stress that I’d prefer another option — that is, neither Rivers nor Brissett — next season.  But that’s easier said than done.

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2 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:


I didn’t answer that question because it’s not the exact assertion I made.  I said we’d be a better team with Jacoby under center.

 

That said, I think that Brissett has significantly better arm strength, significantly better mobility, and significantly better ability to extend plays through contact than Rivers.

 

I think too much of the down thoughts on Brissett were developed after his injury last year.  He’s better judged on what he did prior to that.

 

But, again, I want to stress that I’d prefer another option — that is, neither Rivers nor Brissett — next season.  But that’s easier said than done.

Bottom line is regardless of injury to Brissett he played poorly last half of 19' and there's no way he would have comeback to beat the Packers or Bengals down double digits

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28 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think not winning at least one SB just leaves a resume not completely full. I am sure it bugs Rivers even if he will never admit it and I consider Rivers a Hall of Famer. Marino has said it bothers him.  


Completely agree with that.  I know if Rivers retires without a ring, it’s something that will weigh on him.  Especially if he doesn’t even at least make a SB.  I’d imagine being statistically top 10 of your ERA in most passing categories, but not having a ring would suck.  

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