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Agree with everything you set out above.

 

I'll add: Braden Smith is the best OT on the team right now. 

 

And that's not saying AC is playing poorly.  Not at all.  It's just that Smith is that good right now.

 

Pass pro has been lights out this year.  I think the loss of Mack, the lack of a QB that offers anything in the running game, and the increased use of shotgun have all been factors in the inconsistent running game.  I don't think there's an OL regression at all, and it frustrates me when some of the local media (radio guys) try to frame it that way. 

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1 hour ago, zibby43 said:

Pass pro has been lights out this year.  I think the loss of Mack, the lack of a QB that offers anything in the running game, and the increased use of shotgun have all been factors in the inconsistent running game.  I don't think there's an OL regression at all, and it frustrates me when some of the local media (radio guys) try to frame it that way. 

 

There are a lot of things you can do to enhance pass pro. (This is one of the reasons I was always so frustrated with Arians, Hamilton and Chud.) 

 

But you can't fake good run blocking. With a limited QB last season, and sometimes predictable play calling, the run blocking was dominant almost every week. I don't see dominant run blocking this year. And maybe I need to look closer; I'm planning a rewatch project in the next couple weeks. Maybe it's a RB problem, not an OL problem. Maybe it's more of a scheme problem; I've definitely had issues with the play calling. However, I think it's obvious that the run game isn't producing consistently, so there's definitely a problem somewhere.

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29 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

There are a lot of things you can do to enhance pass pro. (This is one of the reasons I was always so frustrated with Arians, Hamilton and Chud.) 

 

But you can't fake good run blocking. With a limited QB last season, and sometimes predictable play calling, the run blocking was dominant almost every week. I don't see dominant run blocking this year. And maybe I need to look closer; I'm planning a rewatch project in the next couple weeks. Maybe it's a RB problem, not an OL problem. Maybe it's more of a scheme problem; I've definitely had issues with the play calling. However, I think it's obvious that the run game isn't producing consistently, so there's definitely a problem somewhere.

 

Yeah, they had to be dominant in the running game last year, because the downfield passing game was almost non-existent. 

 

The running game inconsistency is definitely a multi-faceted issue.  If I had to rank the factors in order, I don't know what kind of list I'd ultimately end up with, but I do know that #1 on the list would be the loss of Mack.

 

His patience and vision paired perfectly with schemes employed in the running game.

 

Maybe now that the offense's new weapons are gelling, we'll start to see more holes like this on a consistent basis:

 

Week10-Hines-run1.jpg

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7 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Talk about making a leap. I have t really heard his name called in any of the games I’ve seen for penalties, and he’s not missing any blocks. I think the competition from Pinter probably gave him a little push. 74.6 PFF grade too

 

As for some other unheralded contributors:

-Grover Stewart has been a beast. He contributes in the run and pass game and I’ve seen him chase some plays to the sideline and down field. Hope we can extend him. Him and Buckner are the perfect pair in the middle.

 

-Okereke has also made some strides. I really like what he does in coverage. He may have gotten out on a highlight reel with that Landry catch but none of it was his fault. He was in perfect position.

 

-Tyquan Lewis has been a pleasant surprise. 3.5 sacks on the season as a depth player. I honestly think his development is going to have Turray having to really earn his snaps now that he’s been activated. He and Muhammad have been good rotating in for Houston and Autry.

 

Can you share with us the PFF scores for the other starting O-lineman?

 

I'd be most curious.    Their pass blocking is great.    Their run blocking?    Not so much.

 

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27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Can you share with us the PFF scores for the other starting O-lineman?

 

I'd be most curious.    Their pass blocking is great.    Their run blocking?    Not so much.

 

AC - 71.3(39th out of 77)

Quenton - 80.0 (6th out of 83)

Kelly - 73.1(6th out of 39)

Glowinski - 74.6 (10th out of 83 )

Braden - 75.6 (27th out of 77)

 

Those are all good grades. None of them is obviously bad. The run blocking has taken a step back, but IMO the pass-protection has become better this year. 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

There are a lot of things you can do to enhance pass pro. (This is one of the reasons I was always so frustrated with Arians, Hamilton and Chud.) 

 

But you can't fake good run blocking. With a limited QB last season, and sometimes predictable play calling, the run blocking was dominant almost every week. I don't see dominant run blocking this year. And maybe I need to look closer; I'm planning a rewatch project in the next couple weeks. Maybe it's a RB problem, not an OL problem. Maybe it's more of a scheme problem; I've definitely had issues with the play calling. However, I think it's obvious that the run game isn't producing consistently, so there's definitely a problem somewhere.

  

You're getting warmer.

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One thing I noticed about Glowinski: his initial blocks are good but many times, I’ve seen him not finish (like Nelson does). He’s standing around, not engaging the defender to the whistle. To be fair, I don’t have specific instances and it may be the exception but I noticed it, watching the TN game. 

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3 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Aside from the O line, our TE's have been dreadful on a bunch of run plays this year.  We miss Doyle.  MAC does a good job but he's been playing hurt and it shows at the line sometimes.

Which is why I think we go TE with one of our first two picks next draft. 

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Agree on all except Oke, who has dropped off quite bit stat and grade wise. Lewis and Stewart are coming on, I just hope it remains consistent. Some of the plays from Stewart have been really nice. Him tracking a RB down from behind was pretty nice. Glow has definitely looked better and more in synch this year. We've played some bad teams, so hoping all of them continue to do well as the competition improves. 

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That is what rivers getting the ball out quick and maneuvering the pocket will do for any player.  Jacoby was a big reason he struggled but in reality he was still pretty good. We are on pace to give up less sacks then 2018 with Luck. I think we had 18.  That is pretty remarkable considering Rivers is a statue. In a way it might make it easier on the oline because they always know where he is. Don’t have to worry about him getting outside the pocket.

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4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm assuming that both Glow and especially Smith are starting to hit their primes in terms of career path.  AC is likely on the decline.  As astute followers of football know, so goes your OTs, so goes your Oline.

I think glow is almost 29. So I think there will be a decision when his contact is up after the 2021 season. Smith will be locked up I think after this season. I doubt they let him play  his fourth season with no new contract.

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2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Which is why I think we go TE with one of our first two picks next draft. 

 

I'd be surprised if that happened.  The Colts use the TE's by committee in a way, depending on their skill set.  They don't really feature them.

 

However, we'll probably need a couple next year if Doyle is gone.

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10 hours ago, zibby43 said:

Agree with everything you set out above.

 

I'll add: Braden Smith is the best OT on the team right now. 

 

And that's not saying AC is playing poorly.  Not at all.  It's just that Smith is that good right now.

 

Pass pro has been lights out this year.  I think the loss of Mack, the lack of a QB that offers anything in the running game, and the increased use of shotgun have all been factors in the inconsistent running game.  I don't think there's an OL regression at all, and it frustrates me when some of the local media (radio guys) try to frame it that way. 

I don’t understand all the shot gun in the run game. Especially when it’s Taylor and Wilkins. With Hines I kind of understand it because he is a guy that needs space and that gives him space in the run game. 

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6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t understand all the shot gun in the run game. Especially when it’s Taylor and Wilkins. With Hines I kind of understand it because he is a guy that needs space and that gives him space in the run game. 

 

Agreed.  It seems like JT and JW get hit in the backfield or the line is gummed up every time they run out of the shotgun.

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17 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t understand all the shot gun in the run game. Especially when it’s Taylor and Wilkins. With Hines I kind of understand it because he is a guy that needs space and that gives him space in the run game. 

I think it has to do with Rivers.  Lots of RPO shotgun set up so Phillip can scan the field immediately and release the ball as quickly as possible on short patterns, which is his forte.

 

If you mix in an under center set up, it kind of says that any pass pattern is going to be longer because its a longer set up for the QB.  We don't use those pass patterns after a play action, so we don't set up under center much.  At least we haven't yet done so with the patterns as much.  Maybe we should, but doing so would lead to a more down the field passing game.  It might also have to do with TYs struggles and the overall talent level at WR.

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47 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think it has to do with Rivers.  Lots of RPO shotgun set up so Phillip can scan the field immediately and release the ball as quickly as possible on short patterns, which is his forte.

 

If you mix in an under center set up, it kind of says that any pass pattern is going to be longer because its a longer set up for the QB.  We don't use those pass patterns after a play action, so we don't set up under center much.  At least we haven't yet done so with the patterns as much.  Maybe we should, but doing so would lead to a more down the field passing game.  It might also have to do with TYs struggles and the overall talent level at WR.

 

 Excellent points Doug.
And our pass protection is not that great this season, Rivers is just getting

rid of the ball in 2.3 or so. Knowing that, the D can play closer to the los and that affects the run game.

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4 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Which is why I think we go TE with one of our first two picks next draft. 

I would be surprised if that happened.  Ballard seems to prefer the FA route: Ebron, Burton.  Even Doyle was a FA.  Not convinced that position needs to be drafted that high.  

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2 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

I'd be surprised if that happened.  The Colts use the TE's by committee in a way, depending on their skill set.  They don't really feature them.

 

However, we'll probably need a couple next year if Doyle is gone.

 

Agree with all that.

Especially no TE in round 1. I would think DE , CB or OT in round 1. That's assuming they like Eason enough.

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2 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

Agree with all that.

Especially no TE in round 1. I would think DE , CB or OT in round 1. That's assuming they like Eason enough.

 

LT has to be addressed.  We'll know by April if they really like Eason or if they're blowing smoke. 

 

I've read that as many as 6 QBs could be drafted in the first round next year.  Personally, I'd sell out for Fields or Lawrence, even if that took our first three picks for two years in a row.

 

 

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2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Excellent points Doug.
And our pass protection is not that great this season, Rivers is just getting

rid of the ball in 2.3 or so. Knowing that, the D can play closer to the los and that affects the run game.

Rivers has not had the benefit of 5 second pockets like JB had.

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26 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Rivers must be thinking "didn't I come here for that stellar OL they talked about?". :) 

IDK, it seems like defenses expect Rivers to release the ball quickly, so they try to cram the box knowing that everything will be kept short.  Even though JB never seemed to throw downfield either, he enjoyed much more time to throw, IMO.

 

The only thing that ties things together and makes sense is to say that I think that both TY and AC must have have tailed off, combining to eliminate the deep threat and lowering the quality of protection.

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Time to throw

Rivers 2020 - 2.49 (#4 lowest) / OL Adjusted Sack % - 5.1% (Tie-7th) / 20th in deep ball attempts / 20th in completed air yards

Rivers 2019 - 2.63 (#5 lowest) / 6.2% (9th) / 6th in DBA / 5th in CAY

Brissett 2019 - 2.93 (#31) / 6% (7th) / 26th in DBA / 29th in CAY

 

I don't think our OL is driving Rivers to get rid of the ball, I think it's simply Reich's play calling / scheme. As the stats suggests, he's throwing a whole lot less deep.

 

It's pretty clear our OL has digressed a bit, but it's still an upgrade to what Rivers had last year. Not sure what our OL issue is, but they just don't look the same in terms of blocking scheme in the running game.

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5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

IDK, it seems like defenses expect Rivers to release the ball quickly, so they try to cram the box knowing that everything will be kept short.  Even though JB never seemed to throw downfield either, he enjoyed much more time to throw, IMO.

 

The only thing that ties things together and makes sense is to say that I think that both TY and AC must have have tailed off, combining to eliminate the deep threat and lowering the quality of protection.

D's expected JB to go short too. He just took a whole lot longer to read/progress. 

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17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

D's expected JB to go short too. He just took a whole lot longer to read/progress. 

I know.  We were discussing the difference in pocket stability.  Both JB and Rivers don't throw long, but it seems like the pocket for Rivers collapses a lot quicker than it did for JB.  I mean, Rivers might not get touched from a statistical measurement, but he seems to have bodies up into his circle of comfort a lot more often and a lot quicker than JB did last year.

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6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I know.  We were discussing the difference in pocket stability.  Both JB and Rivers don't throw long, but it seems like the pocket for Rivers collapses a lot quicker than it did for JB.  I mean, Rivers might not get touched from a statistical measurement, but he seems to have bodies up into his circle of comfort a lot more often and a lot quicker than JB did last year.

Rivers is under pressure 13.41% of the time. Brissett was under pressure 27%

Rivers was under pressure 20.6% of the time last year.

 

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22 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Rivers is under pressure 13.41% of the time. Brissett was under pressure 27%

Rivers was under pressure 20.6% of the time last year.

 

Not sure what that means for sure.  I'd think they don't chart anything after he releases the ball.

 

I guess he must be releasing the ball before he's determined to officially be under pressure.  Perhaps sees it coming before it gets charted as such.  Sees pressure, releases, pressure stops so it doesn't get defined as pressure.  Rivers quick release of the ball makes the dlinemen quit and keeps the stat from even forming.  If he held it as long as JB, he could experience more pressure than JB or even what he did last year.  

 

If those stats accurately measure real pressure, it would suggest that he has more time to throw it longer if he wanted to and had somebody to throw it to.  But he doesn't seem to be doing that.

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8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Not sure what that means for sure.  I'd think they don't chart anything after he releases the ball.

 

I guess he must be releasing the ball before he's determined to officially be under pressure.  Perhaps sees it coming before it gets charted as such.  Sees pressure, releases, pressure stops so it doesn't get defined as pressure.  Rivers quick release of the ball makes the dlinemen quit and keeps the stat from even forming.  If he held it as long as JB, he could experience more pressure than JB or even what he did last year.  

 

If those stats accurately measure real pressure, it would suggest that he has more time to throw it longer if he wanted to and had somebody to throw it to.  But he doesn't seem to be doing that.

Pressures are 

Hurries+Hits+Sacks

 

Hurries are what you are talking about (pocket collapsing, getting close).

 

Like I said above, Rivers has always had a quick time to throw. His time to throw has decreased more going from a scheme where he was #6 in deep ball attempts to a dink/dunk O where he's 20th in DBA.

 

In short, he's not getting pressured any more than Brissett. He's just reading quickly and hitting the plays called, which in a Reich O, simply don't take very long. JB was pressured twice as much because he took longer, not because he was waiting for a longer play to develop.

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9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Pressures are 

Hurries+Hits+Sacks

 

Hurries are what you are talking about (pocket collapsing, getting close).

 

Like I said above, Rivers has always had a quick time to throw. His time to throw has decreased more going from a scheme where he was #6 in deep ball attempts to a dink/dunk O where he's 20th in DBA.

 

In short, he's not getting pressured any more than Brissett. He's just reading quickly and hitting the plays called, which in a Reich O, simply don't take very long. JB was pressured twice as much because he took longer, not because he was waiting for a longer play to develop.

Yeah, my thought was incomplete and guided by my response to Chloe above.  I'm thinking in terms of the long passing game.  JB seemed to have enough time to make those throws.  Rivers throws quicker passes so he's limiting the D to even produce hurries, so those stats are lower because he gets rid of the ball quickly.  Something that JB could not do since he had no anticipation ability.

 

It feels like Rivers does not have those 5 second pockets that JB had with which to throw long.  And any time it seems that Rivers is taking that shot, he's hurried...throws 50/50 balls.  Maybe the stat I would want to see was "hurries on long pass attempts" if there is such a thing.

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9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, my thought was incomplete and guided by my response to Chloe above.  I'm thinking in terms of the long passing game.  JB seemed to have enough time to make those throws.  Rivers throws quicker passes so he's limiting the D to even produce hurries, so those stats are lower because he gets rid of the ball quickly.  Something that JB could not do since he had no anticipation ability.

 

It feels like Rivers does not have those 5 second pockets that JB had with which to throw long.  And any time it seems that Rivers is taking that shot, he's hurried...throws 50/50 balls.  Maybe the stat I would want to see was "hurries on long pass attempts" if there is such a thing.

 

Rivers has had plenty of time (at times) when going intermediate/deep. When he hasn't, it's because they've been on obvious passing downs, and against teams that blitzed a lot. Ravens blitz 40+%. Jets, Bengals, Titans, Jax, all blitz 30ish% or more. Conversely, we blitz less than 20% and are like 30th.

 

IMO, goes back to play calling. I'd like to see more shots taken on second down, and especially 2nd and short when teams are looking for the run. Those 3 deep passes to MAC vs MN were all on 1st and 2nd down. And we never saw them again.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Time to throw

Rivers 2020 - 2.49 (#4 lowest) / OL Adjusted Sack % - 5.1% (Tie-7th) / 20th in deep ball attempts / 20th in completed air yards

Rivers 2019 - 2.63 (#5 lowest) / 6.2% (9th) / 6th in DBA / 5th in CAY

Brissett 2019 - 2.93 (#31) / 6% (7th) / 26th in DBA / 29th in CAY

 

I don't think our OL is driving Rivers to get rid of the ball, I think it's simply Reich's play calling / scheme. As the stats suggests, he's throwing a whole lot less deep.

 

It's pretty clear our OL has digressed a bit, but it's still an upgrade to what Rivers had last year. Not sure what our OL issue is, but they just don't look the same in terms of blocking scheme in the running game.

 

This stat, being 26th in deep ball attempts in 2019 and 20th in deep ball attempts in 2020 is an indictment of Frank's play calling. 

 

Do we have stats on the 2018 year with Luck? I bet we were in the bottom half then too. Maybe it was a conscious effort to help Luck get rid of the ball fast and take less hits, which would have been an obvious reason. But then, it was the scheme that was dictating it all along. 

 

However, Doug Pederson's scheme took plenty of shots down the field with Carson Wentz and Nick Foles, right?

 

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3 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

This stat, being 26th in deep ball attempts in 2019 and 20th in deep ball attempts in 2020 is an indictment of Frank's play calling. 

 

Do we have stats on the 2018 year with Luck? I bet we were in the bottom half then too. Maybe it was a conscious effort to help Luck get rid of the ball fast and take less hits, which would have been an obvious reason. But then, it was the scheme that was dictating it all along. 

 

Reich let Andrew be Andrew. He was 10th in DBAs. I'm pretty sure Reich came in and didn't try to rock the boat with the existing status quo too much given it was the Luck show at that time. Not sure Irsay would have been happy if someone put a restrictor on Luck.

 

I think we're seeing more "Reich" now. 

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