Ballard's approach on building Colts

[crazycolt1]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Bummer. I think he has ties to the Browns new GM when they were both in Indy. So not real surprised. 

Saying you hope he never gets a job is kinda bad on your part. 

The dude has a family and bills to pay just like me or you.

I can understand saying you hope he never works for the Colts again but never in the NFL? 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

If it means winning a SB im fine with the band aid temporal fix especially if its Rodgers. 

 

Aaron would destroy teams behind our line.

Me too, but the only payoff would be winning the SB. If you don't, then the only progress is the development of other players. At least with a young QB, if you don't win the SB and he gets better, it's a 15 year investment that grows.

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Saying you hope he never gets a job is kinda bad on your part. 

The dude has a family and bills to pay just like me or you.

I can understand saying you hope he never works for the Colts again but never in the NFL? 

Grigson is just a terrible person in general as well as a bad GM, so I don't think he deserves to have the privilege of working in the NFL. Lots of people in the NFL and on the Colts would testify to that. I don't wish any ill-will on him, I just wish he would have to work outside the NFL so nobody would have to associate with him.

[danlhart87]

Didn't pat retire because Grigson 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, danlhart87 said:

Didn't pat retire because Grigson 

I'm not sure if Grigson was 100% the reason, but he definitely was part of it and Pat hated him.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Yeah I think Grigson is treated very unfairly when it comes to trying to protect Luck. He missed on his free agent pick ups and draft choices, but he did try.  I blame Pagano and the offensive coaches more than Grigson

 

I don't. He certainly tried, but he failed miserably. We had a bad OL his entire five years as GM. After 2013, it never got better. Every player he drafted was a miss. We spent Day 2 picks on linemen, then started UDFAs over them, and it's not like those UDFAs were awesome players who just had to be on the field. Luck was one of the most hit and most sacked players in the league throughout those five years. We couldn't run the ball. This is the GM who supposedly had a "Protect 12" sticky on his desk.

 

And yes, the coaching staff deserves a great deal of blame for this. But that doesn't mean Grigson doesn't deserve a great deal of blame as well. (And I used to push back against people who complained that Grigson was going to ruin Luck, calling them overreactors and alarmists who simply hated Grigson. Then summer of 2019 happened, culminating in that sad Saturday night. They were right; I was wrong.)

 

We had a GM who couldn't draft/acquire good linemen, matched with a coaching staff that didn't emphasize a passing attack that would mitigate a bad OL. And then we threw in a devil-may-care, gun-slinging playmaker at QB and watched him get battered for three and a half seasons until he finally started to break. 

 

Grigson deserves every ounce of blame that he gets for failing to protect Luck. So does the coaching staff. I'm glad they're all gone.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't. He certainly tried, but he failed miserably. We had a bad OL his entire five years as GM. After 2013, it never got better. Every player he drafted was a miss. We spent Day 2 picks on linemen, then started UDFAs over them, and it's not like those UDFAs were awesome players who just had to be on the field. Luck was one of the most hit and most sacked players in the league throughout those five years. We couldn't run the ball. This is the GM who supposedly had a "Protect 12" sticky on his desk.

 

And yes, the coaching staff deserves a great deal of blame for this. But that doesn't mean Grigson doesn't deserve a great deal of blame as well. (And I used to push back against people who complained that Grigson was going to ruin Luck, calling them overreactors and alarmists who simply hated Grigson. Then summer of 2019 happened, culminating in that sad Saturday night. They were right; I was wrong.)

 

We had a GM who couldn't draft/acquire good linemen, matched with a coaching staff that didn't emphasize a passing attack that would mitigate a bad OL. And then we threw in a devil-may-care, gun-slinging playmaker at QB and watched him get battered for three and a half seasons until he finally started to break. 

 

Grigson deserves every ounce of blame that he gets for failing to protect Luck. So does the coaching staff. I'm glad they're all gone.

Yep, he had 5 hits from what I remember. Luck (who everyone on this forum would of taken), Hilton (good pick), Mewhort (he retired early though), Geathers (was solid for a few years), and Kelly (who Grigson was forced to take and half the people on this forum wanted). Everyone else was a bust for the most part. I think he was the worst GM in the league from 2012-2016, one of the worst since I've been an NFL fan since 98, and maybe the worst in Colts history.

[Moosejawcolt]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't. He certainly tried, but he failed miserably. We had a bad OL his entire five years as GM. After 2013, it never got better. Every player he drafted was a miss. We spent Day 2 picks on linemen, then started UDFAs over them, and it's not like those UDFAs were awesome players who just had to be on the field. Luck was one of the most hit and most sacked players in the league throughout those five years. We couldn't run the ball. This is the GM who supposedly had a "Protect 12" sticky on his desk.

 

And yes, the coaching staff deserves a great deal of blame for this. But that doesn't mean Grigson doesn't deserve a great deal of blame as well. (And I used to push back against people who complained that Grigson was going to ruin Luck, calling them overreactors and alarmists who simply hated Grigson. Then summer of 2019 happened, culminating in that sad Saturday night. They were right; I was wrong.)

 

We had a GM who couldn't draft/acquire good linemen, matched with a coaching staff that didn't emphasize a passing attack that would mitigate a bad OL. And then we threw in a devil-may-care, gun-slinging playmaker at QB and watched him get battered for three and a half seasons until he finally started to break. 

 

Grigson deserves every ounce of blame that he gets for failing to protect Luck. So does the coaching staff. I'm glad they're all gone.

Well said

[Superman]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Yep, he had 5 hits from what I remember. Luck (who everyone on this forum would of taken), Hilton (good pick), Mewhort (he retired early though), Geathers (was solid for a few years), and Kelly (who Grigson was forced to take and half the people on this forum wanted). Everyone else was a bust for the most part. I think he was the worst GM in the league from 2012-2016, one of the worst since I've been an NFL fan since 98, and maybe the worst in Colts history.

 

He had other hits. Freeman, for example. And had a great first year, and a deserved GM of the Year award. And then that was it. And his overall management was reportedly terrible. Worst in the league? Doesn't really matter to me. But he did a bad job and should have been fired, and in hindsight I wish he had been fired much sooner.

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Didn't pat retire because Grigson 

Maybe a part of it but Pat said it was the knee surgeries that played the biggest part. 

Three knee surgeries in four years made it easier IMO. 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

He had other hits. Freeman, for example. And had a great first year, and a deserved GM of the Year award. And then that was it. And his overall management was reportedly terrible. Worst in the league? Doesn't really matter to me. But he did a bad job and should have been fired, and in hindsight I wish he had been fired much sooner.

Freeman was a signing from the CFL, I was just referring to draft hits. He should have been fired sooner though. Probably after 2014 is when I realized his draft classes stunk, and when he drafted Dorsett, it solidified he was a bad GM. That's probably when I wanted him gone tbh.

[Four2itus]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

And yes, the coaching staff deserves a great deal of blame for this. But that doesn't mean Grigson doesn't deserve a great deal of blame as well. (And I used to push back against people who complained that Grigson was going to ruin Luck, calling them overreactors and alarmists who simply hated Grigson. Then summer of 2019 happened, culminating in that sad Saturday night. They were right; I was wrong.)

Ditto for me. 

[danlhart87]

Grigsons inability to draft adequate players was his biggest downfall 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

Grigsons inability to draft adequate players was his biggest downfall 

Yep, if you gave people on this forum his scouts and all his resources to be able to draft players, we could of done as well as him minimum. He had no idea what he was doing.

[danlhart87]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yep, if you gave people on this forum his scouts and all his resources to be able to draft players, we could of done as well as him minimum. He had no idea what he was doing.

Armchair GMs or scouts would be just as bad prolly 

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Armchair GMs or scouts would be just as bad prolly 

I would of picked Luck and Kelly, not traded for Trent Richardson, and the rest I have no idea lol. However, besides not drafting Hilton, I don't think I could be worse than Grigson lol.

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah, not only was Grigson bad at his job, he was just a piece of garbage human being also. Couldn't stand him, and I hope he never gets a job in the NFL again.

Easy there bud. Grigson is a family man and no doubt a good human to a lot of people in his life. He was a crap manager, who learned that being a hard-o big boss and belittling people beneath you isn’t what gets the job done. He’s spoken on it many times.

[Scott Pennock]

Jacob Eason is our QB.

 

Drafting any one of Hiltons - Castonzo - or Houstons replacements high in the draft next year would be better in the long term

[Hoose]

26 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Easy there bud. Grigson is a family man and no doubt a good human to a lot of people in his life. He was a crap manager, who learned that being a hard-o big boss and belittling people beneath you isn’t what gets the job done. He’s spoken on it many times.

I sincerely hope Ryan Grigson learned from his mistakes and became a better man and person. But his life’s lessons were at the Colts’ expense, because he truly stunk at his job. And without question, IMO, he is the reason Andrew Luck is retired today. 

[bestQBever]

I can PROMISE you this team would already be where Ballard envisioned it to be if #12 didn't jump ship...

[NewColtsFan]

59 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Easy there bud. Grigson is a family man and no doubt a good human to a lot of people in his life. He was a crap manager, who learned that being a hard-o big boss and belittling people beneath you isn’t what gets the job done. He’s spoken on it many times.

Really?   Grigson has spoken about it many times?    I’m asking because I’m not aware if that.   I haven’t seen a link posted here where Grigson has spoken about his time here.

 

Can you point me in the right direction?   I’d like to read that.   Thanks....  

[superrep1967]

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Agreed. The 2021 QB class is too good. We need to draft a QB in the first or second round IMO.

I'm still not giving up the idea Eason can't be a franchise QB until I see different I'm still a believer. 

[superrep1967]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Grigson is just a terrible person in general as well as a bad GM, so I don't think he deserves to have the privilege of working in the NFL. Lots of people in the NFL and on the Colts would testify to that. I don't wish any ill-will on him, I just wish he would have to work outside the NFL so nobody would have to associate with him.

I agree totally I could tell what kind of person he is at his first press conference. 

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

I'm still not giving up the idea Eason can't be a franchise QB until I see different I'm still a believer. 

With Rivers and Brissett on the team, we won't see this year. That would leave Eason as the only QB under contract next year. We are definitely drafting another QB. The question is, what round?

[RollerColt]

10 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

With Rivers and Brissett on the team, we won't see this year. That would leave Eason as the only QB under contract next year. We are definitely drafting another QB. The question is, what round?

You very well might get your wish about starting a rookie QB next year. But be prepared for possible growing pains...

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

You very well might get your wish about starting a rookie QB next year. But be prepared for possible growing pains...

Agreed and understood. We'll see if Eason gets a chance at the starting job next year or he's just used as the backup in year 2. I guess it depends on who else we get. I hope there is a preseason so I can see him in some live-game action.

[RollerColt]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Agreed and understood. We'll see if Eason gets a chance at the starting job next year or he's just used as the backup in year 2. I guess it depends on who else we get. I hope there is a preseason so I can see him in some live-game action.

A preseason would be very welcome and (hopefully) should happen next year. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

With Rivers and Brissett on the team, we won't see this year. That would leave Eason as the only QB under contract next year. We are definitely drafting another QB. The question is, what round?

We are DEFINITELY?

 

If we re-sign Rivers, then there’s no guarantee of anything.   Maybe they think Eason is the future?   So Rivers would be QB1 for one more year, and Eason would be the backup as QB2 with the hope he starts in 2022 and 23 to see if he’s the guy.

 

By the way, I’d add that it’s way, WAY too early to know if we have 5-6 first round quarterbacks in the next draft.   NFL teams won’t make their final call until APRIL.   Teams want every last drop of information and they need time to collect it.    Maybe there’s only 3 or 4?   Patience is your friend. 

[NannyMcafee]

Theres this book that goes by the title of "Can't Hurt Me". The authors name is David Goggins a guy who went from a hardly disciplined life, to one of joining the military and becoming a navy seal and the battles of his life. 

 

One of the lessons he learned was you cant be a hard * to everyone. See he had accomplished so much, and became so strong, he would look down on those who weren't as strong as he was. Which was a recipe for disaster. A lot of people hated him during this phase of his life. 

 

He has since learned that he can't have that attitude towards other people and still attain and retain peoples respect. 

 

It really reminds me of Grigson. He might have come in here thinking being that hard * was just gonna build up those around him and make them even better. Harder. 

 

Grigson whiffed on too many draft picks for this team. He needed to go. But im not willing to say he's a bad human being, or that 5 years in and out of different organizations hasn't taught him anything. People learn. People grow. 

 

Thats why one year a HC might suck and be fired, go somewhere else and have success. 

 

I hope Grigson does learn from his mistakes in life and im not going to hate on him 5 years after he was fired. Its time to move on. Andrew contributed to his retirement as much as not having an oline did. (Peyton understood the importance of his own health)

 

As for Ballard you'll be hard pressed to hear me say much of anything negative about the man. His draft picks are just insane and tend to be at the very least solid starters. I know people are growing tired of hearing the praise he gets, but he truly does deserve it. 

 

All this talk of drafting a young QB is just what Ballard is trying to avoid. You don't just draft a guy to draft a guy. He could set this team back even further if he rushed into something out of despair. He has even said this within so many words. He's not going to rush finding the next franchise QB and why should he? Just because he isnt going to rush through it, doesn't mean he's satisfied with the way things are right now. 

 

You guys act like that means he prefers not having a franchise QB which is complete crap. 

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

11 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

To assume any QB taken in Rd 1 is an automatic starter is wrong. 

Even Mahomes wasn't a starter in his first year. 

Any player on the field has to earn a starter position and the QB is no exception. 

Agreed, and certainly doesn't make us automatic SB contenders. 

[DougDew]

Y'all still talkin' 'bout Ryan Grigson?

[Myles]

12 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Saying you hope he never gets a job is kinda bad on your part. 

The dude has a family and bills to pay just like me or you.

I can understand saying you hope he never works for the Colts again but never in the NFL? 

To be fair, he has enough money to be set for life.   He's not hurting to pay his electric bill.  

[danlhart87]

11 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Jacob Eason is our QB.

 

Drafting any one of Hiltons - Castonzo - or Houstons replacements high in the draft next year would be better in the long term

I believe it was the great TO that once said

 

That's my teammate

That's my quarterback 

 

 

[RollerColt]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Y'all still talkin' 'bout Ryan Grigson?

He'll never be truly gone from the hearts and minds of this board... 

[DougDew]

As far as Ballard building the Colts:  He has had to rebuild the defense, because that's what happens when you change schemes.  Going from a fatty 34 to a zone 43 necessitates players with different trait emphasis in just about every position. 

 

So any GM is going to have their defensive draft picks stick around simply because he cleared the cupboard for a new scheme.  Now it appears that he's upgrading from the cupboards he bared to players that are better.  And several of the better players on D were signed because their original team went in a different direction.

 

On offense, by my count, six of the eleven players are players whom he drafted in the past three years, the rest are players he inherited or are someone else's cast offs (only 2 of the 5 Olineman are his draft choices.):  Of those six, only Nelson and Smith, have been the only steady starters on O that are his draft picks. 

 

Mack, Pittman, JT, Hines, Wilkins have been rotational players; most of whom look replaceable (except maybe Pittman).

 

TY, Doyle, Glow, AC, Funchess, Ebron, Luck, Rivers, WR#2 and Slot WRs-of-the-day were players he inherited or signed because they weren't resigned by the team that drafted them.  That's more about "filling gaps" than "building", IMO.

[Flash7]

12 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I would of picked Luck and Kelly, not traded for Trent Richardson, and the rest I have no idea lol. However, besides not drafting Hilton, I don't think I could be worse than Grigson lol.

I think we all would have known to draft X. Rhodes over Bjoern Werner.

 

By the way, on T.Y., Grigson admitted that he was looking for a punt/kick returner  and a receiver. THAT is why he selected T.Y.   They were all surprised by how good of a receiver he turned out to be.

[chad72]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

As far as Ballard building the Colts:  He has had to rebuild the defense, because that's what happens when you change schemes.  Going from a fatty 34 to a zone 43 necessitates players with different trait emphasis in just about every position. 

 

So any GM is going to have their defensive draft picks stick around simply because he cleared the cupboard for a new scheme.  Now it appears that he's upgrading from the cupboards he bared to players that are better.  And several of the better players on D were signed because their original team went in a different direction.

 

On offense, by my count, six of the eleven players are players whom he drafted in the past three years, the rest are players he inherited or are someone else's cast offs (only 2 of the 5 Olineman are his draft choices.):  Of those six, only Nelson and Smith, have been the only steady starters on O that are his draft picks. 

 

Mack, Pittman, JT, Hines, Wilkins have been rotational players; most of whom look replaceable (except maybe Pittman).

 

TY, Doyle, Glow, AC, Funchess, Ebron, Luck, Rivers, WR#2 and Slot WRs-of-the-day were players he inherited or signed because they weren't resigned by the team that drafted them.  That's more about "filling gaps" than "building", IMO.

 

There are only so many draft picks you have to fill the cupboard when you change schemes. So, free agency has played a good part of both Grigson and Ballard's tenure on defense, IMO. The returns however from Ballard's investment in free agency have been better on D, IMO.

 

One thing I noticed as a commonality amongst lot of SB winning teams the last 8 years - good pass defense with stellar safety play and/or good pass offense, one of those 2 is a must for winning at the highest level (2012 Ravens (offense), 2013 Seahawks (pass defense), 2014 Patriots (pass offense and defense), 2015 Broncos (pass defense with excellent safety play), 2016 Patriots (pass offense), 2017 Eagles (pass offense), 2018 Patriots (pass defense with great safety play), 2019 Chiefs (pass offense and excellent safety play). Defenses like 2013 Seahawks and 2015 Broncos aren't easily assembled overnight without high rate of hitting on later round draft picks becoming Pro Bowlers or lots of high profile free agents signing. 

 

Until we have a very good passing offense or great passing defense, we are not winning the SB. I don't think the team is there yet right now. However, we should have all the ingredients to win our division right now.

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, chad72 said:

There are only so many draft picks you have to fill the cupboard when you change schemes. So, free agency has played a good part of both Grigson and Ballard's tenure on defense, IMO. The returns however from Ballard's investment in free agency have been better on D, IMO.

Agree.  I think the point of bringing up history seems to be about giving Ballard a bit of a pass under the premise that he started with a bar that was extremely low compared with other new GMs.  That simply isn't true.  From Tobin to Polian, Polian to Grigson, and RG to CB, and throughout the NFL, new GMs inherit about a handful of players from the previous regime.  The rest are either not good enough, are getting too old, or don't fit the new schemes and are jettisoned within about two years. 

 

Ballard did not start off at a lower point than the typical new GM.  He started off at a spot that was common height.  JMO.

[lollygagger8]

15 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

I agree on the effect that Luck was taking a beating.  But it wasn't from a lack of trying.  He tried a lot.  Too bad that it wasn't successful.

2012

C Samson Satele

G Mike McGlynn

2013

G Hugh Thornton

C Khaled Holmes

G Joe Reitz

T Gosder Cherilus

2014

G Jack Mewhort

C Jonotthan Harrison

2015

T Denzelle Good

C A. Q. Shipley

2016

C Ryan Kelly

T LeRaven Clark

G Joe Haeg

C Austin Blythe

No matter what he tried, it just didn't work.

 

The worst thing is Griggles was a former O-Lineman. You'd think he'd be able to figure it out a little better. 

[Myles]

19 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

 

Until we have a very good passing offense or great passing defense, we are not winning the SB. I don't think the team is there yet right now. However, we should have all the ingredients to win our division right now.

I think, with Luck, this team would be a solid Super Bowl contender.  Ballard has done a good job building this team.   It now has depth at most positions.