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Seller's Remorse on Deforest Buckner


BlueStallion

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52 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Meh, I think it has more to do with the Injuries than D-Buck, regardless of how good he has been for us. That team has been shredded on the defensive line. 

 

To an extent it is true but Bosa, Solomon Thomas, that they lost played as edge defenders more often. Armstead is still healthy from what I know in the middle. Dee Ford has always had an injury history with them, again on the edge. Maybe Buckner was a glue that was holding their middle more than we know. They would have still missed him in the middle, just not as much due to the injuries.

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I don't think so...at least not under the circumstances. SF was in a "tough" spot with having so many talented DL players who needed to be paid...including one (Bosa) that will likely reset the market. 

 

NFL FOs are smart...they know SF's financial situation...and what leverage they have in a trade. So for SF to still get a top 15 pick...was a pretty good haul...and it was an immediate top 15 pick for a team still looking to compete for a SB the next year (though this season is probably going to be a lost season due to injuries). I am sure Ballard would have been more than happy to give up more future picks...and keep that #13 pick.

 

Seems like one of those trades where both sides win...under the circumstances.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Meh, I think it has more to do with the Injuries than D-Buck, regardless of how good he has been for us. That team has been shredded on the defensive line. 

 

Shredded all over. Lost their All-Pro CB...Ward and Tartt have been out. Plus, the offense has been banged up...which can impact the defense.

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They had to make a money decision, so I doubt they have seller's remorse. They knew how good Buckner is, they just couldn't afford to keep him. And Kinlaw is probably going to be a good player, so they hope that by next year they have an up-and-coming player that fills Buckner's void, at a quarter of the cost.

 

This season is a lost year for them, primarily due to injury. I wonder if they'll move on from Jimmy G, in which case they'll be back on the market for a QB. So having a higher pick this season probably doesn't bother them, given the injuries they've had. 

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10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

They re-signed the wrong guy.

 

They picked the guy that cost less. Armstead signed for $17m/year, Buckner signed for $21m/year. They knew they weren't getting the better player, and they knew they couldn't get a first rounder for Armstead.

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8 minutes ago, Superman said:

They had to make a money decision, so I doubt they have seller's remorse. They knew how good Buckner is, they just couldn't afford to keep him. And Kinlaw is probably going to be a good player, so they hope that by next year they have an up-and-coming player that fills Buckner's void, at a quarter of the cost.

 

This season is a lost year for them, primarily due to injury. I wonder if they'll move on from Jimmy G, in which case they'll be back on the market for a QB. So having a higher pick this season probably doesn't bother them, given the injuries they've had. 

 

That will be an interesting situation to watch. Jimmy G's dead cap hit would be almost negligible...so getting out of that contract won't be an issue. You would think his $24M base salary wouldn't look too bad to QB-needy teams...especially given what QBs are getting now. So there should be some trade value there...even if it's only an early Day 3 pick. Even with COVID...QBs are just too valuable...so there should be a market. I could see him going back to NE...now that Brady is gone.

 

But then what doe SF do? They are a very talented and somewhat young team...built to compete right now. Shanahan is a great offensive mind...but he's not a magician. He isn't going to win many games with a Nick Mullens type QB. But he also doesn't necessarily need an elite QB...proven by the success that they have had with Jimmy G. So I think it's conceivable that they could plug in a talented rookie QB and go from there.

 

There's also the obvious Matt Ryan trade. Ryan has a bigger contract...but most of that would be covered by shedding Jimmy G's deal...and he was the NFL MVP with Shanahan as his OC. That would be a cool reunion. Perhaps Julio joins him in that trade...who knows (and then SF trades Aiyuk to the Colts...a man can dream).

 

There could be some crazy movement at QB this coming offseason. 

 

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17 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

That will be an interesting situation to watch. Jimmy G's dead cap hit would be almost negligible...so getting out of that contract won't be an issue. You would think his $24M base salary wouldn't look too bad to QB-needy teams...especially given what QBs are getting now. So there should be some trade value there...even if it's only an early Day 3 pick. Even with COVID...QBs are just too valuable...so there should be a market. I could see him going back to NE...now that Brady is gone.

 

But then what doe SF do? They are a very talented and somewhat young team...built to compete right now. Shanahan is a great offensive mind...but he's not a magician. He isn't going to win many games with a Nick Mullens type QB. But he also doesn't necessarily need an elite QB...proven by the success that they have had with Jimmy G. So I think it's conceivable that they could plug in a talented rookie QB and go from there.

 

There's also the obvious Matt Ryan trade. Ryan has a bigger contract...but most of that would be covered by shedding Jimmy G's deal...and he was the NFL MVP with Shanahan as his OC. That would be a cool reunion. Perhaps Julio joins him in that trade...who knows (and then SF trades Aiyuk to the Colts...a man can dream).

 

There could be some crazy movement at QB this coming offseason. 

 

Shanahan is happy when he can field enough players to suit up each week. As you said, he's very talented and does what he can, but given the circumstances SF is facing right now, it's a miracle they are even staying competitive.

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3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

They picked the guy that cost less. Armstead signed for $17m/year, Buckner signed for $21m/year. They knew they weren't getting the better player, and they knew they couldn't get a first rounder for Armstead.

 

Right...Armstead wasn't going anywhere. He didn't want to leave (was from Sacramento)...so he was willing to sign a lesser deal to stay. SF might have been willing to give Buckner the same deal they gave Armstead...but Buckner was worth more. Reportedly...the trade negotiations started right after the SB...so I am sure SF was in talks with Buckner about an extension...they just couldn't get it done...and IND was willing to pay him what he wanted. From all accounts...it was a very amicable process.

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24 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

There's also the obvious Matt Ryan trade. Ryan has a bigger contract...but most of that would be covered by shedding Jimmy G's deal...and he was the NFL MVP with Shanahan as his OC. That would be a cool reunion. Perhaps Julio joins him in that trade...who knows (and then SF trades Aiyuk to the Colts...a man can dream).

 

Trading Matt Ryan is prohibitive. If they trade him at the start of the league year, his cap penalty is ~$44m. That's a no-go. If they traded him after June 1 (or whatever the actual cut-off date is these days), his cap penalty is $18m in 2021, and the remaining $26m would hit in 2022 (that's my understanding, from OTC's calculator, I might not have the details exactly right). But who would wait until June to trade for their starting QB?

 

I guess I could see the Niners being okay with that, since it would be a reunion between Ryan and Shanahan, but that's hard to see happening. That would probably be their preferred target, though.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

They had to make a money decision, so I doubt they have seller's remorse. They knew how good Buckner is, they just couldn't afford to keep him. And Kinlaw is probably going to be a good player, so they hope that by next year they have an up-and-coming player that fills Buckner's void, at a quarter of the cost.

 

This season is a lost year for them, primarily due to injury. I wonder if they'll move on from Jimmy G, in which case they'll be back on the market for a QB. So having a higher pick this season probably doesn't bother them, given the injuries they've had. 

There in a rough spot with Jimmy G.  I think they need to move on, but they are in contend now mode, so that is a very tough call over there.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

They had to make a money decision, so I doubt they have seller's remorse. They knew how good Buckner is, they just couldn't afford to keep him. And Kinlaw is probably going to be a good player, so they hope that by next year they have an up-and-coming player that fills Buckner's void, at a quarter of the cost.

 

This season is a lost year for them, primarily due to injury. I wonder if they'll move on from Jimmy G, in which case they'll be back on the market for a QB. So having a higher pick this season probably doesn't bother them, given the injuries they've had. 



This trade was really over blown on "who got what" The early reports on Kinlaw were Imo well overblown . I watched his every play last Thursday vs GB. He looked OK but nowhere the player Bucker is at this point in time. People on this board seemed to buy into those glowing training camp reports and games 1's PFF grade . Maybe in 2 years , they might equal out a bit in playing ability. 

JMO , but I think both teams did well in that trade. Indy had the room and Buckner has really upgraded their defense. SF on the other hand could not keep everyone and 22 mill for a DT was just over the top for them. Plus the D Line was a position of strength . Pick 1.13 was also good compensation fro SF as Buckner's contract status and demands lowered his value.

As for Jimmy G , I think if things look to play out well for them in the draft , they will move on from him. 

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5 minutes ago, dw49 said:

This trade was really over blown on "who got what" The early reports on Kinlaw were Imo well overblown . I watched his every play last Thursday vs GB. He looked OK but nowhere the player Bucker is at this pointing time. People on this board seemed to buy into those glowing training camp reports and games 1's PFF grade . Maybe in 2 years , they might equal out a bit in playing ability. 

JMO , but I think both teams did well in that trade. Indy had the room and Buckner has really upgraded their defense. SF on the other hand could not keep everyone and 22 mill for a DT was just over the top for them. Plus the D Line was a position of strength . Pick 1.13 was also good compensation fro SF as Buckner's contract status and demands lowered his value.

As for Jimmy G , I think if things look to play out well for them in the draft , they will move on from him. 

 

Odds are Kinlaw is never as good as Buckner, a former All Pro who went 7th in the draft. He could be, but you don't projected prospects as future All Pros. Like you said, they had a strong DL and had to make a decision about who to keep. It worked out great for us, and they got a nice young player who can grow into a good starter for them. If he becomes anything close to Buckner, they'll be happy with him.

 

The trade has been great for the Colts. Buckner is a transformational player, the best interior DL we've ever had and it's not close, IMO. 

 

Jimmy G is gonna be an interesting decision. I wouldn't be surprised to see him land back with the Pats, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see them keep him one more year. He's good enough, and they went to the SB with him playing mediocre QB in the playoffs. You can do worse than him. The issue is that he's the 12th highest paid player in the league, and his guaranteed money is paid out. But he's better than Cousins and as good as Tannehill (health aside), who are both paid higher. 

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2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

That will be an interesting situation to watch. Jimmy G's dead cap hit would be almost negligible...so getting out of that contract won't be an issue. You would think his $24M base salary wouldn't look too bad to QB-needy teams...especially given what QBs are getting now. So there should be some trade value there...even if it's only an early Day 3 pick. Even with COVID...QBs are just too valuable...so there should be a market. I could see him going back to NE...now that Brady is gone.

 

But then what doe SF do? They are a very talented and somewhat young team...built to compete right now. Shanahan is a great offensive mind...but he's not a magician. He isn't going to win many games with a Nick Mullens type QB. But he also doesn't necessarily need an elite QB...proven by the success that they have had with Jimmy G. So I think it's conceivable that they could plug in a talented rookie QB and go from there.

 

There's also the obvious Matt Ryan trade. Ryan has a bigger contract...but most of that would be covered by shedding Jimmy G's deal...and he was the NFL MVP with Shanahan as his OC. That would be a cool reunion. Perhaps Julio joins him in that trade...who knows (and then SF trades Aiyuk to the Colts...a man can dream).

 

There could be some crazy movement at QB this coming offseason. 

 

I can see them signing Brissett.  Not elite but a good manager for them.  They just need to get healthy. 

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I like what the 9ers did in that trade.  They recognized that Armstead's length would be harder to find than an interior DL to replace Buckner so kept Armstead and used the pick to replace Buckner.  Had they kept Buckner they would have lost Armstead and not been able to replace him up front.  All told their front was potentially stronger for the route they chose, it was quite shrewd in fact.

 

And the Colts didn't have to wonder if the DL they wanted would be there, perhaps even didn't like Kinlaw.  So going and getting Buckner for a mid-round first pick was a solid move for what they wanted.

 

At this point it looks pretty good for both sides.  Just gotta wait and see if Kinlaw develops if not then it'll go from a trade that actually helped both teams to a one-sided deal in favor of the Colts.

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Just shows how overrated draft picks are.

 

People say how good it is to have a 1st round rookie on a rookie deal. In reality, there's a MUCH GREATER CHANCE the player will bust versus be a good player in the league. The average NFL career is not 10-15 years and multiple pro bowls.

 

Let's say you have the choice of two options:

Option 1 - you get $10 million dollars (Buckner)

Option 2 - flip a coin. Land on heads, you get $15 million. Land on tails, you get 1 penny. (Kinlaw)

 

Which option would you choose? Cap space doesn't win championships; players, coaches, and organizations win championships. Even Jerry Krause would agree with that quote.

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