Mcnabb Says Rg3 Wont Fit In Washington

[UndecidedFrog]

Here's the thing, though, the scheme isn't that different from what Andy Reid does in Philadelphia (both are slightly more vertical WCOs, the terminology and tendencies are slightly different but it's not so drastic a change otherwise as you might expect). It's not like McNabb's physical skillset was ever the problem, either. Mentally he just did not want to make the relatively small adaptations necessary to play in the system installed by our coaches and he was unwilling to work with the coaches when it came to making some mechanical changes that would improve his overall level of play. What's more, when the Vikings catered directly to McNabb and built a system around his talents he still flopped. How on Earth do you take the guy at his word on RGIII when his problems very obviously stem from the fact that he was already on the decline and was extremely resistant to change, however large or small?

There is no doubt in my mind that there is something wrong with McNabb upstairs. He very clearly has some sort of persecution complex that has interfered with his ability to be an effective QB in Philly, in DC, and in the great frozen north.

That was kind of a rambling quote. I guess he's saying he does not think they will adjust the oline for RGIII, they won't capitalize on his strengths.

I guess he would know. Either that or sour grapes.

Time will tell.

The redskins fan I know is so excited about RGIII he can't sleep at night

I would prefer not to cast aspersions on McNabb's character. He is entitled to his perspective (as are we all).

We can choose to accept his opinions or not.

And we can also choose to reserve judgment and wait and see how RG3 adapts to the Redskins offense, or vice versa.

IMO, it is difficult to imagine how a successful QB running the Eagles' offense could perform so badly running a similar system elsewhere, unless either the system was different or the talent was different, or both.

[Nadine]

I would prefer not to cast aspersions on McNabb's character. He is entitled to his perspective (as are we all).

We can choose to accept his opinions or not.

And we can also choose to reserve judgment and wait and see how RG3 adapts to the Redskins offense, or vice versa.

IMO, it is difficult to imagine how a successful QB running the Eagles' offense could perform so badly running a similar system elsewhere, unless either the system was different or the talent was different, or both.

I wasn't casting anything. I said time will tell which I believe is what you are saying

[UndecidedFrog]

I wasn't casting anything. I said time will tell which I believe is what you are saying

Yes, Maureen, you did not cast any aspersions on anyone.

I quoted you because I was obliquely agreeing with your statement that time will tell.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[KaylaD]

The Shanahans do adapt their playcalling to suit the man lining up behind center. There were clear differences in the way our offense was executed between McNabb, Grossman, and Beck. The core principles and philosophy of the offense remained relatively the same but for those to change you have to have a guy around who you know is worth keeping and adapting to. A player who doesn't put in the work during the week and blames others for his own failings is not worth keeping in your back pocket.

McNabb is just doing what he has done throughout his career in that he is shirking blame off of himself with doublespeak. He has a demonstrable knack for saying the right things publicly despite a very different picture being painted behind the scenes.

I just wanted to note that the Broncos changed there whole offense around last year for Tim Tebow and look how that worked out. They ended up winning a playoff game. Does anyone really believe they were going to keep him as there qb of the future? I guess some franchises switch things up to compliment the skills of whoever there qb happens to be at the time. McNabb may not have been there future but you think they could of done more to compliment the guy's talents. Tebow was, IMO, clearly not the Broncos franchise qb, but they did what they had to do to win games.

note. If anyone tries to say Tebow is a good qb I will laugh my butt off...Ha ha ha.

[RGIII]

I would prefer not to cast aspersions on McNabb's character. He is entitled to his perspective (as are we all).

We can choose to accept his opinions or not.

And we can also choose to reserve judgment and wait and see how RG3 adapts to the Redskins offense, or vice versa.

IMO, it is difficult to imagine how a successful QB running the Eagles' offense could perform so badly running a similar system elsewhere, unless either the system was different or the talent was different, or both.

I'm just making it very clear that, as someone who has followed the entirety of McNabb's career fairly closely and was somewhat of a fan of Shanahan's Denver teams as well, I consider McNabb's claims as they pertain to Griffin to be mostly baseless and so biased as to not even warrant serious consideration. It might not be fair to cast aspersions upon his character but if he's going to be so persistent about doing the same regarding the entire Redskins organization I'm not going to be particularly inclined to hold back

The system was different (but not a lot by NFL standards) and the talent level was considerably different at the time (year one of a drastic rebuild). That's just what you have to expect when you change teams, though. Fortunately, RGIII will inherit a notably improved team and he won't be learning a system that is any more foreign to him than any other NFL caliber offense.

Obviously we're all agreed that time will tell.

I just wanted to note that the Broncos changed there whole offense around last year for Tim Tebow and look how that worked out. They ended up winning a playoff game. Does anyone really believe they were going to keep him as there qb of the future? I guess some franchises switch things up to compliment the skills of whoever there qb happens to be at the time. McNabb may not have been there future but you think they could of done more to compliment the guy's talents. Tebow was, IMO, clearly not the Broncos franchise qb, but they did what they had to do to win games.

note. If anyone tries to say Tebow is a good qb I will laugh my butt off...Ha ha ha.

I'm not a fan at all of what the Broncos did last season offensively. They probably shouldn't have made the playoffs but they were in an improbably weak division and their defense just happened to play so well as to give the offense a chance to win it for the 5-6 minutes per game where Tebow was actually effective. To me, that season was a fluke not entirely unlike the Seahawks' 7-9 playoff run.

Obviously John Elway agreed on some level.

[Nadine]

Yes, Maureen, you did not cast any aspersions on anyone.

I quoted you because I was obliquely agreeing with your statement that time will tell.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I want cookies

[Nadine]

It might not be fair to cast aspersions upon his character but if he's going to be so persistent about doing the same regarding the entire Redskins organization I'm not going to be particularly inclined to hold back

Good point.

[UndecidedFrog]

I want cookies

They're in the box.

[Nadine]

They're in the box.

:clap:

[UndecidedFrog]

I'm just making it very clear that, as someone who has followed the entirety of McNabb's career fairly closely and was somewhat of a fan of Shanahan's Denver teams as well, I consider McNabb's claims as they pertain to Griffin to be mostly baseless and so biased as to not even warrant serious consideration. It might not be fair to cast aspersions upon his character but if he's going to be so persistent about doing the same regarding the entire Redskins organization I'm not going to be particularly inclined to hold back

The system was different (but not a lot by NFL standards) and the talent level was considerably different at the time (year one of a drastic rebuild). That's just what you have to expect when you change teams, though. Fortunately, RGIII will inherit a notably improved team and he won't be learning a system that is any more foreign to him than any other NFL caliber offense.

Obviously we're all agreed that time will tell.

1) I don't think McNabb made any claims against RG3, other than that RG3 was coming out of college and had many skills.

2) McNabb made many claims against the Redskins organization, specifically against the Shanahans, from his direct experience being part of that, as a QB. I think I cannot equate him speaking from his experience and your speaking from what? Were you, or are you part of the Redskins organization as either a player or a coach?

[southwest1]

I will readily admit that what I am about to say slightly deviates off the RG3 QB Redskins prospect here. Does any one else find it strange that the Texans head coach Gary Kubiak, Mike Shanahan's protege, is actually flourishing under the exact same system Shanahan made Championship famous in Denver under John Elway?

I often wonder how well RG3 would perform in Washington if Coach Kubiak ran the sidelines in our nation's capital? The Mike Shanahan QB magic is swiftly evaporating IMO.

[schwamm]

I'm just making it very clear that, as someone who has followed the entirety of McNabb's career fairly closely and was somewhat of a fan of Shanahan's Denver teams as well, I consider McNabb's claims as they pertain to Griffin to be mostly baseless and so biased as to not even warrant serious consideration. It might not be fair to cast aspersions upon his character but if he's going to be so persistent about doing the same regarding the entire Redskins organization I'm not going to be particularly inclined to hold back

The system was different (but not a lot by NFL standards) and the talent level was considerably different at the time (year one of a drastic rebuild). That's just what you have to expect when you change teams, though. Fortunately, RGIII will inherit a notably improved team and he won't be learning a system that is any more foreign to him than any other NFL caliber offense.

Obviously we're all agreed that time will tell.

I have no doubt McNabb is battling through some sour grapes, that he doesn't care much for Shanny, and that his view is tainted by bias.

That doesn't automatically negate what he is saying, though.

I had sour grapes and didn't like a former employer after I was let go from his company, but that doesn't eliminate the validity of any criticisms I might have of the guy or his business ethics.

The things I took away from the video were: One, that McNabb tried to focus on explaining his reasoning, even in the face of some playful ribbing from the other analysts, and didn't make it overly personal; and Two, that Skip Bayless agreed with McNabb (no I don't like Bayless, but it confirms that, at the very least, McNabb's analysis isn't totally unsubstantiated).

[KaylaD]

I'm just making it very clear that, as someone who has followed the entirety of McNabb's career fairly closely and was somewhat of a fan of Shanahan's Denver teams as well, I consider McNabb's claims as they pertain to Griffin to be mostly baseless and so biased as to not even warrant serious consideration. It might not be fair to cast aspersions upon his character but if he's going to be so persistent about doing the same regarding the entire Redskins organization I'm not going to be particularly inclined to hold back The system was different (but not a lot by NFL standards) and the talent level was considerably different at the time (year one of a drastic rebuild). That's just what you have to expect when you change teams, though. Fortunately, RGIII will inherit a notably improved team and he won't be learning a system that is any more foreign to him than any other NFL caliber offense. Obviously we're all agreed that time will tell. I'm not a fan at all of what the Broncos did last season offensively. They probably shouldn't have made the playoffs but they were in an improbably weak division and their defense just happened to play so well as to give the offense a chance to win it for the 5-6 minutes per game where Tebow was actually effective. To me, that season was a fluke not entirely unlike the Seahawks' 7-9 playoff run. Obviously John Elway agreed on some level.

I know they were lucky to make the playoffs. They won games because of the defense and running the ball. They ran the ball so well because they changed things to suit Tebow's skills which obviously are not passing.

[Gavin]

Talent was different in washington, they simply didnt have the talent the Eagles had and still have also those two SuperBowl victories it was Terell Davis in my opinion that got them to that point stats back that up, Elway never even had a season of 30 touchdowns or single digits in interception and had a COMBINED 49 touchdowns in the two Superbowl years, Davis had 36 those two years, when Mcnabb was going to those NFC championship games he had talent around him, Trotter, Akers, Owens, Runyan, Westbrook, with the exception of Santana Moss in Washington ( who was never brought up as a top wide receiver at any point in his career, Mcnabb had nothing to work with simply put it wasnt Mcnabb that was the problem in washington it was the crap talent around him in other words the coaches didnt get the talent around him, Terell Davis two MVP like seasons is what speaks for Shanahans SuperBowl wins not Shanahan himself, it will be interesting how he goes about dealing with RGIII if that comes to pass but at this point they dont have the talent to seriously compete

[Gavin]

I still say the Broncos earned it last season as per the Seahawks I cant downplay the fact that they fell into the playoffs with a 7-9 record but ask the Saints records dont matter in a one and done playoff system, the Seahawks just played better in that game....in other words they earned that playoff win

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCI-bAPtBRo

[RGIII]

I have no doubt McNabb is battling through some sour grapes, that he doesn't care much for Shanny, and that his view is tainted by bias.

That doesn't automatically negate what he is saying, though.

I had sour grapes and didn't like a former employer after I was let go from his company, but that doesn't eliminate the validity of any criticisms I might have of the guy or his business ethics.

My posts in this thread have more or less acknowledged the validity to some of what he's said. Mike Shanahan is demanding and he does not get along with people who he feels aren't dedicated. That's what Jake Plummer and McNabb have in common, they didn't work as hard as Shanahan expected them to and they got the boot. Neither were particularly happy about it and both have been somewhat outspoken on the subject of their former coach.

Shanahan is also known for basing his expectations on some of the great players he has worked with before. He wants QBs with the dedication that Elway and Young had and he actively seeks out guys with similar skillsets because he knows how well they can work in his scheme. All running backs are held up to the measuring stick that was Terrell Davis - a truly complete back. That's not always an easy thing to have to deal with but it's understandable given that those guys possessed the qualities that win Super Bowls.

The sense of perfectionism as it relates to the scheme is the same kind of thing you'll find if you go dig up some old Bill Walsh tape. It works but it's not something everyone can live up to and it's probably much harder in a place that hasn't fully established the right culture (as 2010 DC certainly hadn't).

The problem with McNabb is simply that he refuses to take any blame for his own actions (or lack thereof) and is projecting mightily when it comes to his apparent prediction that RGIII and Shanahan will not coexist well due to "ego"

1) I don't think McNabb made any claims against RG3, other than that RG3 was coming out of college and had many skills.

2) McNabb made many claims against the Redskins organization, specifically against the Shanahans, from his direct experience being part of that, as a QB. I think I cannot equate him speaking from his experience and your speaking from what? Were you, or are you part of the Redskins organization as either a player or a coach?

1) I wasn't talking about claims against RGIII, I said claims as they pertain to RGIII (i.e., why McNabb doesn't think he'll be a fit in DC).

2) You can bring the "you don't have first-hand experience" argument to the table if you wish but all it will result is the inevitable conclusion that no one on this forum really knows anything for sure therefore nothing should be discussed based on available information ever. Been down that road before. Practically speaking, I'm just a guy who does his homework and pays a lot of attention to what goes on around the league. I've seen and heard enough from all parties to be comfortable with the assertions I'm making despite not being an employee of the organization. I probably have had more access to the team than the average fan courtesy of knowing quite a few people who know people if we're really splitting hairs but that's neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things.

.

[21isSuperman]

Indeed. The Redskins have invested a lot (2 future first round and this year's 2nd round draft picks) to move up 4 spots in the first round this year.

I think Shanahan should feel the heat under his seat if he cannot make this work, and he will be more motivated to do what is necessary to make RG3 successful.

Yes, I do think RG3 has better tools to have enough flexibility to succeed in any scheme, much more so than McNabb had.

However, I still think it would be a good thing to not try and force fit RG3 into any pre-conceived offense that may not suit his abilities.

Agree 100%. You have some concepts in your offense you want to stick to, but you must also modify it to fit your QB. You can't expect Peyton Manning to be a thread in an option offense the same way you won't expect Tim Tebow to be a threat in a West Coast offense

[UndecidedFrog]

Agree 100%. You have some concepts in your offense you want to stick to, but you must also modify it to fit your QB. You can't expect Peyton Manning to be a thread in an option offense the same way you won't expect Tim Tebow to be a threat in a West Coast offense

Speaking of Mr. Tebow, I am also interested in seeing if the Jets will be using him in any special formations as part of the regular offense.

[21isSuperman]

Speaking of Mr. Tebow, I am also interested in seeing if the Jets will be using him in any special formations as part of the regular offense.

I've heard reports of him being used as a Wildcat option and that Sporano has said they will use him for about 20 plays a game. The problem is that defenses know how to beat the Wildcat, so using him for 20 plays a game would be offensive suicide. He could also be used if they utilize the option offense, which is more suited to his abilities because I believe that's what he ran at Florida

[UndecidedFrog]

I've heard reports of him being used as a Wildcat option and that Sporano has said they will use him for about 20 plays a game. The problem is that defenses know how to beat the Wildcat, so using him for 20 plays a game would be offensive suicide. He could also be used if they utilize the option offense, which is more suited to his abilities because I believe that's what he ran at Florida

20 offensive plays a game seriously cuts into Sanchez's play time.

[21isSuperman]

20 offensive plays a game seriously cuts into Sanchez's play time.

Which might actually be a good thing for the Jets

[UndecidedFrog]

Which might actually be a good thing for the Jets

.

Ouch for Sanchez.

[Andy]

I'd like to know who does fit in Washington? Cause it definitely wasn't him, PM supposedly wouldnt fit, now RG3. This guy is an attention beep and always wants the spotlight on him, so he'll do whatever he has to do to get it.

[UndecidedFrog]

I'd like to know who does fit in Washington? Cause it definitely wasn't him, PM supposedly wouldnt fit, now RG3. This guy is an attention beep and always wants the spotlight on him, so he'll do whatever he has to do to get it.

If McNabb is correct, Matt Schaub would fit nicely.

[21isSuperman]

If McNabb is correct, Matt Schaub would fit nicely.

I see what you did there nice!

[schwamm]

My posts in this thread have more or less acknowledged the validity to some of what he's said. Mike Shanahan is demanding and he does not get along with people who he feels aren't dedicated. That's what Jake Plummer and McNabb have in common, they didn't work as hard as Shanahan expected them to and they got the boot. Neither were particularly happy about it and both have been somewhat outspoken on the subject of their former coach.

Shanahan is also known for basing his expectations on some of the great players he has worked with before. He wants QBs with the dedication that Elway and Young had and he actively seeks out guys with similar skillsets because he knows how well they can work in his scheme. All running backs are held up to the measuring stick that was Terrell Davis - a truly complete back. That's not always an easy thing to have to deal with but it's understandable given that those guys possessed the qualities that win Super Bowls.

The sense of perfectionism as it relates to the scheme is the same kind of thing you'll find if you go dig up some old Bill Walsh tape. It works but it's not something everyone can live up to and it's probably much harder in a place that hasn't fully established the right culture (as 2010 DC certainly hadn't).

The problem with McNabb is simply that he refuses to take any blame for his own actions (or lack thereof) and is projecting mightily when it comes to his apparent prediction that RGIII and Shanahan will not coexist well due to "ego"

I'd suggest it might make sense to step back and realize the key differences in our viewpoints. As a 'Skins fan, I would have to assume you'll fight to defend Shanny the same way I've done for Dungy, Manning, and Polian. Fair enough.

Likewise, it is easy to understand that you want to believe we know less about the 'Skins and Shanny because we aren't fans of the club. I'd probably assume the same if the roles were reversed.

But I'm taking a very neutral position on this. I've seen enough of Shanny dating back to his first stint with Denver as an OC to know he is a very good coach, but not beyond reproach. Likewise, I've watched enough of McNabb, even when he was at Syracuse, to know he has his flaws for sure, but none of that negates the points he was making.

I think there is ample reason to be concerned that McNabb may be right, but if you are as devoted as I am to the Colts, you probably only want to see the best in Shanny. Time to agree to disagree peacefully.

[DG1]

Maybe McNabb speaks from direct experience.

It isn't as if Shanahan has had a good record with QBs that are not named Elway.

I think I will wait and see how RG3 or Luck does in the NFL with Shanahan.

Fixed it.

[UndecidedFrog]

Fixed it.

. Mr. Irsay did say that the decision is still up in the air, so I was covering my bases.

[chad72]

. Mr. Irsay did say that the decision is still up in the air, so I was covering my bases.

He probably was referring to the draft pick card that he smoked while he was on 'shrooms, it is still up in the air now . (j/k)