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Rivers' Motion The Reason For His Throws


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2 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Is the reason Rivers passes look like they do because his arm does not go back very far? I made a point to watch hid motion tonight trying to figure his throws out and he is definitely not a gunslinger like Favre and others.

Not sure why this is a thing. Rivers has never had a cannon. Never been a slinger. He's a touch and anticipation guy. Always has been. He even said similar tonight on the post game.

 

All the people saying he's a statue... He's always been a statue. All the folks saying he doesn't have arm strength, he's never ever had a cannon. He doesn't have a noodle either. He's making the same throws he did 5 years ago. He's got the same issues he had 5 years ago too. The only difference, is Reich goes downfield far less in his O. 

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11 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Is the reason Rivers passes look like they do because his arm does not go back very far? I made a point to watch hid motion tonight trying to figure his throws out and he is definitely not a gunslinger like Favre and others.

I think anyone who has knowledge of Rivers at all, kinda already knew this. 

Just saying

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7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Not sure why this is a thing. Rivers has never had a cannon. Never been a slinger. He's a touch and anticipation guy. Always has been. He even said similar tonight on the post game.

 

All the people saying he's a statue... He's always been a statue. All the folks saying he doesn't have arm strength, he's never ever had a cannon. He doesn't have a noodle either. He's making the same throws he did 5 years ago. He's got the same issues he had 5 years ago too. The only difference, is Reich goes downfield far less in his O. 

Yeah, Rivers is pretty much the same guy.

 

Differences this year are that he has a real OL for the first time, lower calibur weapons to throw to, and a coach with pretty conservative play calling.

 

Overall, seems to be a decent trade off.  If Reich can be a little less predictable on the calls, I think some of the WRs will develop nicely with Rivers as the season progresses.  Pittman is already looking really good.

 

The important thing is that the Colts are 6-3.  The team Rivers came from replaced him with a stud rookie, upgraded positions on both sides of the ball, and they are currently 2-6.  Style points aren't always best.

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10 minutes ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

Yeah, Rivers is pretty much the same guy.

 

Differences this year are that he has a real OL for the first time, lower calibur weapons to throw to, and a coach with pretty conservative play calling.

 

Overall, seems to be a decent trade off.  If Reich can be a little less predictable on the calls, I think some of the WRs will develop nicely with Rivers as the season progresses.  Pittman is already looking really good.

 

The important thing is that the Colts are 6-3.  The team Rivers came from replaced him with a stud rookie, upgraded positions on both sides of the ball, and they are currently 2-6.  Style points aren't always best.

Yep. It's hilarious Herbert is playing at a high level and they still can't win. Pretty clear Rivers wasn't the issue. They're "almost" winning a lot of games, just like with Rivers, and on track to have less wins than last year. Herbert is still impressive, so I'm sure they are happy. Hope they don't waste his best years like they did with Rivers.

 

If Reich will take the cuffs off Rivers, and be more creative, I like our chances here. I'm not really worried about the WRs. He's proven he can deal it to a bunch of different guys. Targeted 10 different guys this week. 

 

Reich needs to stop over rotating on pass catchers though. Pre-season is over. Pick your 4 guys and roll with them. I know injuries have played a part, but I think Frank simply likes rotating too much, just like with RB this year. Rivers will never develop chemistry with guys if you're giving equal targets to 5+ guys.

 

I'm a bit shocked they gave Pittman 8 targets tonight. I think the shine has worn off Johnson. After his struggles last week, not surprised he got only one target. He ran some pretty ugly routes, and was totally out of synch with Rivers. Tonight, Harris of all people, ran a perfect back shoulder route, which is one of the hard timing challenges for a QB/WR. I really hope it wasn't a fluke.

 

 

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People been knocking his throwing motion forever.  I recall people being down on him irt how it would play at this level way back before he was drafted.  It was a pretty big knock on him and there was talk of how he'd need to redo his throwing motion and all that.  But he's done pretty well in spite of it.

 

His value is that he's a vet who wants that ring and knows how to play smart and be in control of the situation.  He's not gonna be Mahomes but once again this team has good defense and a good OL so with him back there they have as good a shot as any other team to take home some hardware this year.

 

I see a lot of folks wanting more from the QB and I understand that.  But you know what?  I'm going to enjoy this run.

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16 minutes ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

While true, it still is true, so the fact is to point it out, when manning can out run him you know someone is a statue haha

Manning was a statue too. Just nobody cared because he was air raiding every team but the Pats for over a decade.

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4 hours ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

He was, but Rivers more so, Manning at least had rushing TDs more recently

Manning had 1 rushing TD in his last 6 seasons. He had more earlier in his career, but he also ran a very different O that made running easier (for RBs too). If you will recall, even on goal line situations, he spread folks out. 

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With Pittman finally healthy and with some reps we are seeing what we thought when we drafted him, it will open T.Y. up and we saw some nice cuts and catches on Thursday from him, Harris is developing into a nice underneath threat the rook can play, Johnson will have some big games when D's make mistakes and blow coverage's and Rivers finds him long ( Already has happened and sure didnt look noodle like at all...) but Johnson doesnt consistently shake coverage, Pascal is always a safe 4th/ 5th option.......  really liking our WR core as they are improving and trending up not down....wish we could at least get Patmon on the field and hoping Campbell is back for playoff run...we shall see on each but in best shape we have been in a long time.

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On 11/12/2020 at 10:02 PM, EastStreet said:

Yep. It's hilarious Herbert is playing at a high level and they still can't win. Pretty clear Rivers wasn't the issue. They're "almost" winning a lot of games, just like with Rivers, and on track to have less wins than last year. Herbert is still impressive, so I'm sure they are happy. Hope they don't waste his best years like they did with Rivers.

 

If Reich will take the cuffs off Rivers, and be more creative, I like our chances here. I'm not really worried about the WRs. He's proven he can deal it to a bunch of different guys. Targeted 10 different guys this week. 

 

Reich needs to stop over rotating on pass catchers though. Pre-season is over. Pick your 4 guys and roll with them. I know injuries have played a part, but I think Frank simply likes rotating too much, just like with RB this year. Rivers will never develop chemistry with guys if you're giving equal targets to 5+ guys.

 

I'm a bit shocked they gave Pittman 8 targets tonight. I think the shine has worn off Johnson. After his struggles last week, not surprised he got only one target. He ran some pretty ugly routes, and was totally out of synch with Rivers. Tonight, Harris of all people, ran a perfect back shoulder route, which is one of the hard timing challenges for a QB/WR. I really hope it wasn't a fluke.

 

 

 

 

I'm beginning to think Harris is a diamond in the rough. He's does all the righty things. Played RB in college .. obviously a quick learner. 

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3 minutes ago, dw49 said:

I'm beginning to think Harris is a diamond in the rough. He's does all the righty things. Played RB in college .. obviously a quick learner. 

I'm trying to be patient on Harris, and not fall in love lol. That back shoulder catch was impressive given the timing needed. That's not a simple connection for a QB and WR. Johnson looked bad when trying it. At the same time, it's not a route that requires precise cuts, they just need to position themselves right and look back at the correct time. Very impressed though, and hope it's not just luck or a fluke. I'm more surprised he was running an outside route at all. 

 

At this point, my dream long term WR unit (assumes health and development) would be

 

X - Pittman/Patmon

Slot - Harris/Pascal

Z - Campbell/Hilton

 

I'd really like to see Hilton move to slot if we resign him though. I think he could be very effective there even as he slows.

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What I both feared and hoped before the season is exactly what is playing out before us so far. And that is this.

 

This season is going to go based on whether or not Philip can adjust to the differences between his career-long team the Chargers and his new team the Colts. And those adjustments boil down to the one huge one.

 

He now has a team with BOTH a real offensive line AND a great defense at the same time, something he NEVER had in any season before. This is easily the most complete team he's ever been on. Easily. And yet, so far, he hasn't adjusted the one habit/instinct/behavior that he needs to adjust as a result of that difference. Not nearly enough, anyway.

 

He has to understand that when a pass isn't there, taking a sack is OK now. Make no mistake now, in his entire career previously, it almost never was. Taking a sack could easily have been the difference between winning and losing that particular game. That's because he was going to get pressured early on most of his dropbacks, so if he took sacks on most of those, they'd never move the ball. And punting too often would easily lead to losses, because most of their defenses were the equivalent of wet paper bags. It's unbelievable the degree of difficulty he had to produce with his entire career.

 

But that's not the case now. Ironically, it's the exact opposite, where taking a sack is now a good, maybe even a great play. Because this line is going to turn right around and give him plenty of time on the next bunch of pass plays, giving him the chance to overcome the sack that none of his previous teams ever could. Not only that, but even if the sack ends up resulting in a punt, this defense is most of the time going to erase that and get him the ball right back.

 

It is a COMPLETELY different mindset he has to have, and after the opposite having been ingrained in him for 14 years, I know how incredibly difficult it is for him to change that, especially in the split second he has to decide/react when it's happening on the field. That's why I pointed it out before the season. Unlike all Colts fans, having watched Philip's every NFL play, I could see this coming. It was so clear and obvious. But it's the reality right in front of him. He HAS to make this adjustment, completely, if this team is going to do what it has the pieces to do.

 

If he doesn't, I don't see them beating the best teams, especially in the most tense situations of the postseason. I just don't. But if he does...

 

Look out Indy, this could be a whole lot of fun still.

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On 11/13/2020 at 12:25 AM, DontEverGiveUp said:

The important thing is that the Colts are 6-3.  The team Rivers came from replaced him with a stud rookie, upgraded positions on both sides of the ball, and they are currently 2-6.  Style points aren't always best.


the important this is the Colts are 6-3 and continuing to find rhythm and getting better with each other. This is a team that added a $20 plus million player on each side of the ball in Rivers and Buckner. They are both instrumental in their roles for this team. 

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31 minutes ago, PrideOfAthens17 said:

What I both feared and hoped before the season is exactly what is playing out before us so far. And that is this.

 

This season is going to go based on whether or not Philip can adjust to the differences between his career-long team the Chargers and his new team the Colts. And those adjustments boil down to the one huge one.

 

He now has a team with BOTH a real offensive line AND a great defense at the same time, something he NEVER had in any season before. This is easily the most complete team he's ever been on. Easily. And yet, so far, he hasn't adjusted the one habit/instinct/behavior that he needs to adjust as a result of that difference. Not nearly enough, anyway.

 

He has to understand that when a pass isn't there, taking a sack is OK now. Make no mistake now, in his entire career previously, it almost never was. Taking a sack could easily have been the difference between winning and losing that particular game. That's because he was going to get pressured early on most of his dropbacks, so if he took sacks on most of those, they'd never move the ball. And punting too often would easily lead to losses, because most of their defenses were the equivalent of wet paper bags. It's unbelievable the degree of difficulty he had to produce with his entire career.

 

But that's not the case now. Ironically, it's the exact opposite, where taking a sack is now a good, maybe even a great play. Because this line is going to turn right around and give him plenty of time on the next bunch of pass plays, giving him the chance to overcome the sack that none of his previous teams ever could. Not only that, but even if the sack ends up resulting in a punt, this defense is most of the time going to erase that and get him the ball right back.

 

It is a COMPLETELY different mindset he has to have, and after the opposite having been ingrained in him for 14 years, I know how incredibly difficult it is for him to change that, especially in the split second he has to decide/react when it's happening on the field. That's why I pointed it out before the season. Unlike all Colts fans, having watched Philip's every NFL play, I could see this coming. It was so clear and obvious. But it's the reality right in front of him. He HAS to make this adjustment, completely, if this team is going to do what it has the pieces to do.

 

If he doesn't, I don't see them beating the best teams, especially in the most tense situations of the postseason. I just don't. But if he does...

 

Look out Indy, this could be a whole lot of fun still.

Great post AthensPRfan, I really enjoyed reading it.

 

Be able to take the sack and live for another play

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On 11/13/2020 at 12:07 AM, King Colt said:

Is the reason Rivers passes look like they do because his arm does not go back very far? I made a point to watch hid motion tonight trying to figure his throws out and he is definitely not a gunslinger like Favre and others.

The story of Rivers throwing motion is when Rivers was 4 years old he used to go to football practices with his dad who was a high school football coach.

 

Philips hand was too small to grip the ball so he would lay the football in his hand and use a sidearm shot put motion to throw the ball.

 

He's been throwing that way since he was 4 years old.

 

He threw the ball that way throughout his entire career at NC State where he smashed yardage records. Full disclosure I am an NC State alum. 

 

When the Chargers drafted him there was talk of changing the motion but they never did.

 

And now you know the rest of the story....

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