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Do we not want to have a good quarterback?


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People complain about Rivers, but the word was that Foles would be our quarterback if we didn't get Rivers.  I'm just glad we got Rivers if that was the other option.  Will we actually go out and try to get a good one in the offseason or trade up in the draft to get one?  Or will we just be content with having mediocre play at the quarterback position again?

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There is a quote from Dune and I love it.......

 

"Spannungsbogen", lit. "the span of the bow". The self-imposed delay between desiring something and taking action to acquire it.

 

I doubt there are any fans who want a great QB at the helm more than Jim, Chris, and Frank. I know they are doing what they can, and trying not to drop the one hanging in their mouth.....while barking for a better one. 

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I would've been fine sticking with Jacoby with another year tbh I don't see this team going anywhere with Rivers anymore than Jacoby.

 

However its more than the QB do we have any decent healthy targets.

 

Even though the Colts were top heavy during the Manning years you had Wayne, Harrison and Clark all legit. 

 

With the Colts who do we really have that's legit and healthy?

 

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Obviously we want to have a good QB. Every team in the NFL want's that, but there is a reason so few teams can say that they have what they want.

 

Good QBs are extremely hard to come by.

 

Just look at the Cardinals. They drafted a QB high in 2018, then immediately drafted his replacement in 2019. Good young QBs just aren't that common, and a team that has one won't give them away.

 

The biggest issue is that we don't get high picks in most drafts.

 

Aside from 2018, we haven't drafted in the top 10 since Andrew Luck in 2012. We aren't in position to get a young star QB unless we can hit on one lucky late. We could try trading up, but since every team knows how hard it is to get a good young QB, the price to move up that much is insanely high. We would have to give up the entire draft class in order to get a top QB, and that is a waste and destroys cap space by trying to fill holes in FA.

 

Sure, we want a good QB, maybe even could say we need a good QB, but the likelihood of getting one is extremely low, so unless the team is willing to give up a year of contending and add another year to the age column for our young stars, we need to be content with dart throws and veteran stop gaps at the position.

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46 minutes ago, chrisbeldridge said:

People complain about Rivers, but the word was that Foles would be our quarterback if we didn't get Rivers.  I'm just glad we got Rivers if that was the other option.  Will we actually go out and try to get a good one in the offseason or trade up in the draft to get one?  Or will we just be content with having mediocre play at the quarterback position again?

I think the Colts vastly overrated their talent. They added what some of you believe to be a HoF QB to get to a Super Bowl but it is apparent that he is surrounded by 8-8 talent. The wide receivers are and will be awful. The offensive line is great but even they won't charge a running game if the wide receivers are no threat. It is a combination of those things along with a QB who clearly is over the hill and doesn't have the HoF arm strength he had. That is why the Chargers moved on from him. You don't need a franchise QB if the rest of the team is very good. But, that is not the case in Indy. I doubt that trading up is an option and just trading for another fill in QB doesn't seem productive either and it eats a lot of money out of the salary cap.

 

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1 minute ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I think the Colts vastly overrated their talent. They added what some of you believe to be a HoF QB to get to a Super Bowl but it is apparent that he is surrounded by 8-8 talent. The wide receivers are and will be awful. The offensive line is great but even they won't charge a running game if the wide receivers are no threat. It is a combination of those things along with a QB who clearly is over the hill and doesn't have the HoF arm strength he had. That is why the Chargers moved on from him. You don't need a franchise QB if the rest of the team is very good. But, that is not the case in Indy. I doubt that trading up is an option and just trading for another fill in QB doesn't seem productive either and it eats a lot of money out of the salary cap.

 

I'm not sure that the Colts have overrated the talent of the individual players, but they certainly have not optimized and integrate the talent we have toward winning games. Most fans focus on the talent of individual players. That can be very misleading. Network optimization, like those found in Artificial Intelligence, can be deceptive when people think they 'know' what the solution(s) should look like.

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2 hours ago, chrisbeldridge said:

People complain about Rivers, but the word was that Foles would be our quarterback if we didn't get Rivers.  I'm just glad we got Rivers if that was the other option.  Will we actually go out and try to get a good one in the offseason or trade up in the draft to get one?  Or will we just be content with having mediocre play at the quarterback position again?

How about play a young qb and developed him. That is the only way to fix our issue .  Having rivers on pace for 20 touchdowns and 16 picks is. Not a great qb.  By the end of the season after the playoffs are over ask yourself if it was worth it this year to play rivers or see if Eason has potential so we know if we need to draft another qb . Rivers just set us back another year to probably end up 9-7 to miss out on a top qb

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Phil Rivers is the second best QB option we could have walked into the season with. The other being Brady. We are doing as much as we possibly can this year. I am PRAYING that the coaches are able to develop Eason's first round talent into a real starter and he is our guy next year. It's gonna take that as well as Taylor completely turning his game around and becoming a good RB.

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51 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

How about play a young qb and developed him. That is the only way to fix our issue .  Having rivers on pace for 20 touchdowns and 16 picks is. Not a great qb.  By the end of the season after the playoffs are over ask yourself if it was worth it this year to play rivers or see if Eason has potential so we know if we need to draft another qb . Rivers just set us back another year to probably end up 9-7 to miss out on a top qb

the problem with that is Eason isnt ready and the team isnt going to just tank.  They are also still 5-3 and very much in the division race, they wont pull the plug on this now 

 

i dont think this is a super bowl team and half the division are bottom feeders, but irsay and ballard want to win games now. as good as he is, CB does not have a great win loss record as a GM 

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Good QBs don't grow on trees. Thats why its very critical to hold onto a franchise Quarterback if you have one. When I say hold onto, I mean you have to put pieces in place so he can sustain long term success. Rivers hasn't been terrible this season. We just need more consistency from him. 

 

I'm not seeing it with Eason and I don't think Ballard is seeing it either. I hope I'm wrong but he was an average Quarterback in college. There is a reason he slipped to the 4th round despite being projected a 2nd round pick by some analysts. 

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3 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

If you're happy that your guy doesn't suck as much as the other guy, are you really happy to have him? I get Rivers is looking better than Foles or Newton but I honestly would have preferred not bringing him aboard.

 

What was the other option?  Keep Jacoby as our starter and have people going crazier on here now than they are already because more likely than not we'd have the same or a worse record in that instance.  Not only would people be calling for Frank's head, Ballard's head, and Jacoby's head for not being 1st in the AFC South, but they'd probably be calling for Irsay's head for not forcing Ballard to try to make an improvement from Jacoby.  Rivers is definitely better than Jacoby, he's made a bad mistake or two in each of our 3 losses and he needs to correct that.  Otherwise, please keep in mind that we've played the vast majority of snaps this year without our #1RB, we've missed our 3 top TEs all for extended periods of time or in critical moments, we've seen injuries to our top 3 WRs and it seems like every week we have to shuffle bringing guys from the practice squad up to the after roster a day or two before each game.

 

2 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I think the Colts vastly overrated their talent. They added what some of you believe to be a HoF QB to get to a Super Bowl but it is apparent that he is surrounded by 8-8 talent. The wide receivers are and will be awful. The offensive line is great but even they won't charge a running game if the wide receivers are no threat. It is a combination of those things along with a QB who clearly is over the hill and doesn't have the HoF arm strength he had. That is why the Chargers moved on from him. You don't need a franchise QB if the rest of the team is very good. But, that is not the case in Indy. I doubt that trading up is an option and just trading for another fill in QB doesn't seem productive either and it eats a lot of money out of the salary cap.

 

 

Rivers is a HOF QB, but he's at the end of his career.  

 

The WRs have been hurt.  This is a different team with a healthy Campbell, Pittman and TY every game.  We've seen injuries which have caused all of them to miss >1 game.  The TEs have also been dealing with injuries, with Doyle, Burton and MAC all missing >1 game throughout the season.  Couple those two things with the loss of Mack so early in the season.  Add the fact that we had no preseason games, a very limited in person off-season, and it makes sense why we don't always seem to be totally clicking.  I get it, every team had a limited offseason and no preseason games... but we have (outside TY) a very young WR corps, a brand new QB, a rookie RB, and have been dealing with a rotating panel of TEs.  We've got more going on than a lot of teams who are returning their QBs and haven't had the amount of injuries at their skill positions around him.  

 

The OL this year doesn't seem to be the same as last year, if you ask me.   Either that, or Taylor/Wilkins/Hines are a major drop off from Mack (which I truly don't think is the case).  We were less of a passing threat on offense last year than this year, yet our OL was able to maul other teams and they 'ran the damn ball'.  They're not playing awful, but I don't think they're as dominant as they were last year.

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3 hours ago, Four2itus said:

There is a quote from Dune and I love it.......

 

"Spannungsbogen", lit. "the span of the bow". The self-imposed delay between desiring something and taking action to acquire it.

 

I doubt there are any fans who want a great QB at the helm more than Jim, Chris, and Frank. I know they are doing what they can, and trying not to drop the one hanging in their mouth.....while barking for a better one. 

to be fair there were teams that found good young qbs this year.  the colts chose signing phil over taking one in the draft

 

might have had to move up to do it, but if thats what it takes then we need to do it.  we are likely going to be in this same boat next year too

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The smart thing to do is to play Rivers against the Titans but dress Eason.  If he struggles badly then replace him with Eason.

 

If he plays just ok but the Colts lose?  Give Eason the first string reps following the game and start him the next.

 

The way Rivers was throwing the ball yesterday, there is no way we can win with that.  His balls were the proverbial wounded ducks.

 

Lots of teams are playing rookie Qbs and doing well.  Rookie Qbs are not who they were 20-30 years ago.  Tua, Herbert, Burrow, the Jacksonville Qb now, even the Dallas basically rookie qb was a shot in the arm to that offense yesterday.

 

If Eason struggles?  You at least know what you have going into next year?  But if he does well?  You know only find out what you have but you also just win baby!

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6 hours ago, chrisbeldridge said:

People complain about Rivers, but the word was that Foles would be our quarterback if we didn't get Rivers.  I'm just glad we got Rivers if that was the other option.  Will we actually go out and try to get a good one in the offseason or trade up in the draft to get one?  Or will we just be content with having mediocre play at the quarterback position again?

Being mediocre is the worst.  In a single year I'd rather be bad (without tanking) and have a real chance to improve in the draft, ala 2011, without selling the farm.

 

My personal belief is that Ballard will have to address the position in a serious way within the next 2 years.  It already feels past due somehow, it's not, but the sense of urgency is mounting.

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On 11/9/2020 at 5:58 PM, coltfaninnewyork said:

Legendary coach bill Parcells use to say ,it’s not like there is a quarterback tree ,just go pluck one .Some teams are chasing it for decades .

The Manning Family Tree is awfully close but yes I agree. Some luck out others don't...

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On 11/9/2020 at 4:23 PM, DownHillRunner said:

Good QBs don't grow on trees. Thats why its very critical to hold onto a franchise Quarterback if you have one. When I say hold onto, I mean you have to put pieces in place so he can sustain long term success. Rivers hasn't been terrible this season. We just need more consistency from him. 

 

I'm not seeing it with Eason and I don't think Ballard is seeing it either. I hope I'm wrong but he was an average Quarterback in college. There is a reason he slipped to the 4th round despite being projected a 2nd round pick by some analysts. 

No one has seen Eason. Just how do you know what Ballard is seeing or thinking? 

Eason didn't have enough starts in college to judge him. You calling him average when he had one year starting for a college team that was not known to be QB friendly. 

Do I know? No, but neither do you. 

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Rivers is average at this point in his career , i know we not going anywhere with him but I don’t mind the young Qb learning from a true vet but these young guy now a days come right in and can play but I do agree with decision to sit the rookie and let him learn 

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On 11/9/2020 at 9:45 AM, GoColts8818 said:

Teams aren’t exactly signing up to let good QBs go.  Getting a good QB is probably the hardest thing to do in all of pro sports.

^^^
Amen.... this post should be pinned as a public service reminder to the top of every thread where QB is being discussed. :thmup:

 

 

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On 11/9/2020 at 3:02 PM, StatesmanN said:

The smart thing to do is to play Rivers against the Titans but dress Eason.  If he struggles badly then replace him with Eason.

 

If he plays just ok but the Colts lose?  Give Eason the first string reps following the game and start him the next.

 

The way Rivers was throwing the ball yesterday, there is no way we can win with that.  His balls were the proverbial wounded ducks.

 

Lots of teams are playing rookie Qbs and doing well.  Rookie Qbs are not who they were 20-30 years ago.  Tua, Herbert, Burrow, the Jacksonville Qb now, even the Dallas basically rookie qb was a shot in the arm to that offense yesterday.

 

If Eason struggles?  You at least know what you have going into next year?  But if he does well?  You know only find out what you have but you also just win baby!

I don’t disagree with your assessment.... but I would tweak it and wait until we’ve either been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs OR perhaps play him in the 2nd half of games if and when our playoff position is set.

 

IMO it’s too soon to make that change.

 

IF we can take out the Titans twice, sandwiched around a win vs the Packers.... we’d be in excellent position for at least the 3 or 4 seed (assuming Pittsburgh and KC occupy seeds 1 & 2) .... allowing perhaps the opportunity to get Eason some game reps.

 

If we wind up going all the way to Week 17 until our playoff fate is determined... then I doubt we’ll see the lad in a regular season game until 2021.


This picture will clear a bit in 3 weeks.

 

p.s.... Andrew, you suck.

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This is my issue with the 2020 draft. I hear 3 things over and over and over on here:

 1. QBs are the most important position in sports

 2. Good QBs are never let go

 3. Andrew Luck derailed the Colts plans

 

Which one of those 3 did Ballard not know about heading into the 2020 draft/season?

 

Personally I dont care to hear about how many teams miss on QBs in the draft either as that's a shortsighted perspective (IMO). You know how many times a team has hit on a QB in the draft by not drafting a QB? Zero

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On 11/9/2020 at 12:58 PM, CF4L said:

I would've been fine sticking with Jacoby with another year tbh I don't see this team going anywhere with Rivers anymore than Jacoby.

 

However its more than the QB do we have any decent healthy targets.

 

Even though the Colts were top heavy during the Manning years you had Wayne, Harrison and Clark all legit. 

 

With the Colts who do we really have that's legit and healthy?

 

Fine with JB?  Between you and Brissett himself that makes roughly .....well, 2 people who would have been fine with that. 

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2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Thursday's game can't get here quick enough. 

It's insane how "bench Rivers" becomes the talking point any time the Colts lose.

 

Doesn't matter what happens in the games or how Rivers plays, just blame him no matter what.

 

Of course, when we win games, credit seems to go to everyone BUT Rivers.  Funny how that works.

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2 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

This is my issue with the 2020 draft. I hear 3 things over and over and over on here:

 1. QBs are the most important position in sports

 2. Good QBs are never let go

 3. Andrew Luck derailed the Colts plans

 

Which one of those 3 did Ballard not know about heading into the 2020 draft/season?

 

Personally I dont care to hear about how many teams miss on QBs in the draft either as that's a shortsighted perspective (IMO). You know how many times a team has hit on a QB in the draft by not drafting a QB? Zero

To be fair, the Colts did draft a QB.  

Outside of Brady, the FA QB's were not very good.  

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2 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

This is my issue with the 2020 draft. I hear 3 things over and over and over on here:

 1. QBs are the most important position in sports

 2. Good QBs are never let go

 3. Andrew Luck derailed the Colts plans

 

Which one of those 3 did Ballard not know about heading into the 2020 draft/season?

 

Personally I dont care to hear about how many teams miss on QBs in the draft either as that's a shortsighted perspective (IMO). You know how many times a team has hit on a QB in the draft by not drafting a QB? Zero


1. You’re corrected.

2. He drafted Eason. 

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49 minutes ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

It's insane how "bench Rivers" becomes the talking point any time the Colts lose.

 

Doesn't matter what happens in the games or how Rivers plays, just blame him no matter what.

 

Of course, when we win games, credit seems to go to everyone BUT Rivers.  Funny how that works.

and it’s ignored by those people when the Colts win and he plays well.  That just doesn’t count because it doesn’t fit the narrative that Rivers sucks.  Look I am not going to lie I never really expected Rivers to come in here and light the world on fire or even be what he was for most of his career with the Chargers.  I just expected him to be better than Jacoby.  I think he has been.

 

The Colts clearly thought with their running game that would be enough.  It’s turning out it wasn’t and I think the much bigger concern is that the running game has taken a huge step back.  So either the line got worse or Marlon Mack was a lot better than people gave him credit for.  I personally lean towards the later as the line is doing very well in pass protection.  I do think there is something to be said for teams are also sitting on the Colts run first so I would add that to missing Mack.  
 

Still the fact the Colts are having to depend on Rivers a lot more to win games than they were planning should be a lot more concerning than Rivers not being Peyton Manning or even the Rivers of a few years ago.  

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1 hour ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

It's insane how "bench Rivers" becomes the talking point any time the Colts lose.

 

Doesn't matter what happens in the games or how Rivers plays, just blame him no matter what.

 

Of course, when we win games, credit seems to go to everyone BUT Rivers.  Funny how that works.

 

its not like the fans are going out of their way to hate on Rivers. But its hard to give a first year (on this team) QB credit for doing well when you never know which QB you're going to get. 

 

Are you a Rivers fan? Just curious. When did you get here before or after Rivers? 

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3 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

This is my issue with the 2020 draft. I hear 3 things over and over and over on here:

 1. QBs are the most important position in sports

 2. Good QBs are never let go

 3. Andrew Luck derailed the Colts plans

 

Which one of those 3 did Ballard not know about heading into the 2020 draft/season?

 

Personally I dont care to hear about how many teams miss on QBs in the draft either as that's a shortsighted perspective (IMO). You know how many times a team has hit on a QB in the draft by not drafting a QB? Zero

 

I'd be a bit softer on Ballard for not getting a QB high in the draft in the first year after Luck retired. It's possible there was no QB he really liked and I would prefer him to not get a QB at all than to draft a QB he doesn't like... BUT overall I agree with you - you will never get a franchise QB if you never even try to get one. And this is one of Ballard's main responsibilities as a GM of a franchise QB'less team - get a QB who you think can be that. And I'm willing to give a leeway for some time, but at some point(relatively soon) he will have to show his work. And I don't accept the "we are drafting too late in the draft" excuse either. This is still part of his job - to maneuver in the draft and get into position to draft a player who he thinks will be able to be developed into a franchise QB. So yeah... I'm still cool with it, but the time is coming when all the excuses will feel empty, because again - this is his job and his responsibility. 

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It is starting to look like we are in for QB-hell for a lot of years...not bad enough to get a high draft pick and not good enough to make the playoffs...7-9 to 9-7 year after year.

The only way out is to 'sell the farm' for a top draft pick...else we will continue to draft a QB year after year and trade for over-hill QBs and still stay around .500.

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I think it's easy to confuse a couple issues here.  One is Rivers.  The other is the future at QB.

 

Re: Rivers the guy is not what he once was but he's also not throwing to a special group of receivers and that does factor in very much with the bottom line.  For this season the book is still unwritten as well.  He's not going to put up pinball numbers at this stage in his career, what you want from him is smart game management and for the most part he's given the team that.  He can still beat a defense over the top especially when he's got a good play action threat and protections are there.

 

Re: the future I have no idea what to expect from Eason and the depth chart is where we have to trust coaches and GMs the most.  I also do think there's something to be said for F'ing a season up right but for me personally I enjoy seeing a competitive team every season more than I do enduring the type of season required to get a top three range pick.

 

I'll say this re: Eason though: if and when they think they're out of contention his window will open.  But fans always are in a hurry to see young QBs and putting them out there before they're ready can do way more damage than good.  So the best case scenario to me at least is the Colts make a nice playoff run this season with a game manager QB and then Eason is the guy next season.  That way he's got a full year to learn all the nuances of the offense and command the huddle and it's ball from there and we'll see if he's good enough.

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4 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

I think it's easy to confuse a couple issues here.  One is Rivers.  The other is the future at QB.

 

Re: Rivers the guy is not what he once was but he's also not throwing to a special group of receivers and that does factor in very much with the bottom line.  For this season the book is still unwritten as well.  He's not going to put up pinball numbers at this stage in his career, what you want from him is smart game management and for the most part he's given the team that.  He can still beat a defense over the top especially when he's got a good play action threat and protections are there.

 

Re: the future I have no idea what to expect from Eason and the depth chart is where we have to trust coaches and GMs the most.  I also do think there's something to be said for F'ing a season up right but for me personally I enjoy seeing a competitive team every season more than I do enduring the type of season required to get a top three range pick.

 

I'll say this re: Eason though: if and when they think they're out of contention his window will open.  But fans always are in a hurry to see young QBs and putting them out there before they're ready can do way more damage than good.  So the best case scenario to me at least is the Colts make a nice playoff run this season with a game manager QB and then Eason is the guy next season.  That way he's got a full year to learn all the nuances of the offense and command the huddle and it's ball from there and we'll see if he's good enough.

I couldn't agree more.  We have a young Chris Ballard drafted QB on the roster right now.  This year was never about playing him in a starting role let alone as a No.2.  They will play him when the time is right.  Ballard will give him his opportunity and go from there.  Wouldn't be great if he turns out to be the GUY?   Ballard drafts very well.  He finds talent and develops it.  I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt here.  No reason to panic at this juncture.  

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9 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

Fine with JB?  Between you and Brissett himself that makes roughly .....well, 2 people who would have been fine with that. 

 

This is a lost season for a variety of reasons so Jacoby being the starter wouldn't make much of a difference to me for this year at least as this is the last year of his contract. I wouldn't want him back afterwards. 

 

Rivers isn't really thinking of the future the Colts need a long term plan getting an old QB works if you're on the verge of a title which the Colts aren't.

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