Dallas Clark's Career Over?

[Jay Kirk]

He was drafted and played very well until......

Injury...

As did Clark,Sanders,such is life in NFL

[GoGoColts]

Clark.. Injury

Sanders .. Injury...

the rest of the "bad signings" please.... ???

maybe all of his starting UDFA's make up for his poo poo's?

Moves doesn't imply all contracts, but I think that Dwight's contract is bad. The rest of the bad moves are all the draft busts.

[BrentMc11]

When you have a severe wrist injury, the old nemesis Arthur Itis kicks in very quickly. My guess is that has happened, and when the pain kicks in his hands become numb.

That is something to also watch with Peyton Manning. With nerve regeneration, numbness can occur at any time. My thoughts are we will see Peyton fumbling some snaps this year due to numbness.

I speak on these issues knowing that I wear braces every day to stabilize wrists that have been injured in almost every sport.

[dgambill]

Moves doesn't imply all contracts, but I think that Dwight's contract is bad. The rest of the bad moves are all the draft busts.

Draft busts? Look I know it was hard to get talent for this team with the high salaries of DF and PM but look at the guys this man has drafted just in Indy...and not counting the greatest draft class of all time he had in Buffalo. I think this post in this very forum sums it up. While the past few years Polian has had smaller success overall this guy did an amazing job putting the team together. Just the two selections of Peyton Manning and Edgerrin James and the two other options we could have had that many suggested we take tells us how close we were from being the Cleveland Browns or Buffalo Bills of recent years. Here is the post and please just be fair and realize hindsight is 20/20 but this guy has drafted a number of valuable players to us...and those he passed on maybe didn't fit our system or yes he missed...but he has been good more often than not.

Let me first start off by saying that I am one of the first to bash Bill Polian when it comes to the handling of our offensive line through the draft and free agency. The O-line, behind Peyton, is our most important unit. Peyton’s production depends on their production. Peyton has done a great job in the past few years with his abilities to cover up for their short-comings, but had our line been better and Manning didn’t have to make so many hot reads, I’d wager his stats all around would be much, much better.

And it’s not really unfair to criticize Polian for his handling of the situation as he has said himself that he deserves blame for the situation. But then he turns around and does things like keeping guys like Jeff Linkenbach, Mike Pollak, and, until recently, Jamey Richard and neglecting to attempt to add some serviceable veterans to our line… It’s highly frustrating.

All of that aside, though, I am here to try and sort through some of the Polian debate, specifically the draft side. I’ll start with the issue that seems to be the most prevalent these days when it comes to Polian and the draft:

First Round Draft Busts

Since Polian joined the Colts in 1998, here is a list of first round draft picks: (excluding 2011 for obvious reasons)

1998: Peyton Manning

1999: Edgerrin James

2000: Rob Morris

2001: Reggie Wayne

2002: Dwight Freeney

2003: Dallas Clark

2004: Bob Sanders

2005: Marlin Jackson

2006: Joseph Addai

2007: Anthony Gonzalez

2008: Tony Ugoh (Ugoh was taken in the 2nd round of the 2007 draft, but since we traded our 2008 first round pick to trade up for him that qualifies him as a first round pick in my opinion.)

2009: Donald Brown

2010: Jerry Hughes

That’s quite a list, really. 7 of 13 have gone to the Pro-Bowl. Up until 2007 we were used to getting significant use out of our first round picks. Since then, though, it’s safe to say we’ve been disappointed with what we’ve ended up with.

So how do we interpret this list above?

Well, first, let’s think about something quickly… How many other teams have made 7 of 13 first round picks Pro-Bowlers in that time frame? Honestly, I doubt any did. I don’t want to do the homework to confirm that for the obvious reasons, but I think it’s a safe bet to assume such. I doubt many teams have had such a run in NFL history…

So that, to me, begs the question was it skill, or just luck? That is hard to determine. No doubt the NFL draft is an extreme combination of both. Sometimes home runs strike out, and strike outs turn into home runs. The NFL draft is a tricky beast to master, and no matter how good anyone ever gets at it, there will never be a true master of the draft. Not even a man who drafts 7 Pro-Bowlers in 13 attempts.

The fact that Polian had the run he did in that timeframe, I think, leads some fans to give him too much credit. There is a sense that if Polain picked him, he’s great. He can’t be a dud, and to assume and opine otherwise is near blasphemy and should be punished.

On the flipside of that coin, though, some take a look at our last 5 number 1 picks and say “Well Polian is just awful! He’s old, he needs to retire!” To me, they are letting recent history speak too loudly of a largely good record.

So what then should be the final verdict on Bill Polian in the first round of the NFL draft since he became Indianapolis Colts President?

I think it’s entirely unfair to give him any less than a high passing grade… Maybe it was luck, maybe it was skill, maybe it was fate, but whatever it is, he has been more successful in the first round than he has not, despite recent history. Is the recent trends of 1st round picks alarming? To an extent, yes, but he’s still over the 50% success rate, and by god that’s worth something.

Outside the first round he’s made his fair share of good picks as well… I mean here are notable names drafted outside the first round by Polian:

Marcus Washington (2)

Idrees Bashir (2)

Mike Doss (2)

Kelvin Hayden (2)

Pat Angerer (2)

Jerraud Powers (3)

Donald Strickland (3)

Freddie Kiaho (3)

Jason David (4)

Matt Giordano (4)

Clint Session (4)

Jacob Tamme (4)

Ryan Diem (4)

David Thornton (4)

Austin Collie (4)

Jake Scott (5)

Robert Mathis (5)

Tyjuan Hagler (5)

Charlie Johnson (6)

Antoine Bethea (6)

Cato June (6)

Pierre Garçon (6)

TJ Rushing (7)

Rick DeMulling (7)

Pat McAfee (7)

Kavell Conner (7)

All of those names have stepped in at some time for us and been effective when we needed them to be. There’s even some names not on that list that easily could be. And then you have to take into account, after all of this, how many undrafted rookie free agent’s we’ve brought in and made good use of. I couldn’t find a list of UDFA’s, but there have been more than a fair share of good one’s through here through the Polian years…

One thing I’ve thought for a while now but never really expressed is how hard it is becoming to build a team through the draft with the irreverence that we have. There is no data to support this theory, but I believe that draft “busts” are becoming more and more common. These players leave college, and for whatever reason, it seems their success rate in the NFL is diminishing from top to bottom.

So it makes the draft especially dangerous for a team like us… If more and more players coming into the NFL and onto our team via the draft aren’t going to transition to this level, it’s going to make the way we do things much harder, and make a great draft even rarer than it is now.

So in the end, when you think about how Bill Polian has built this team through the draft, you have to admit he’s done a pretty darn good job of it. I understand that our recent drafts have been pretty mediocre, and while that’s cause for a bit of concern, it’s also the way the system works. Could they continue to be sub-par? Sure. But they could also turn out exceptionally well, you just never know.

Ideally, the best way to build a team is a combination of both the draft, and free agency. Draft some good players, and sign some good low profile players that way when you draft a guy who just doesn’t work out it doesn’t immediately effect you.

But for a team who has built largely through the draft, Bill Polian should get a high passing grade.

As for anything else he does? Well, that’s debatable, but that’s not what this thread is for… I just wanted to take a kind of in-depth look at our drafts in the Polian years and hopefully dispel some of the notion that he’s not near as good as he’s cracked up to be.

As far as this year’s draft goes, I think this may turn into one of his better classes. I think Costanzo is eventually going to work out and be a well rounded LT. Drake Nevis and Delone Carter are already showing they can play. If Ijalana turns out to be a great guard, or even just a decent guard, then there’s no way to call this draft anything but a raging success.

But that’s the thing about the draft: You just never know. It’s not an exact science.

After that it should be a little easier to see why last year wasn't all his fault or he didn't just recently become terrible at his job. Bad things happen to this team and a lot of people got hurt in 2010 and 2011 all at the same time and we finally saw the wheels fall off the incredible playoff bus we had.

[oldunclemark]

Is a player a bust if he gets hurt?

[Tark The Shark]

It is kind of sad that no other team wants him when a couple years ago, he was a pro bowl TE.

[GoGoColts]

Draft busts? Look I know it was hard to get talent for this team with the high salaries of DF and PM but look at the guys this man has drafted just in Indy...and not counting the greatest draft class of all time he had in Buffalo. I think this post in this very forum sums it up. While the past few years Polian has had smaller success overall this guy did an amazing job putting the team together. Just the two selections of Peyton Manning and Edgerrin James and the two other options we could have had that many suggested we take tells us how close we were from being the Cleveland Browns or Buffalo Bills of recent years. Here is the post and please just be fair and realize hindsight is 20/20 but this guy has drafted a number of valuable players to us...and those he passed on maybe didn't fit our system or yes he missed...but he has been good more often than not.

Sorry, but he did a pretty bad job with the Colts. Over 14 years he never was able to fix the defense. Your premise that I must condlude that Polian did a good job of drafting here in Indianapolis because I could have predicted the busts ahead of time it false. As I said several times, Polian's picks over the last few years were possible to make using a draft sorter on NFL.com or the sports site of your choice. That is not what I expect with a professional draft expert.

[Jay Kirk]

When you have a severe wrist injury, the old nemesis Arthur Itis kicks in very quickly. My guess is that has happened, and when the pain kicks in his hands become numb.

That is something to also watch with Peyton Manning. With nerve regeneration, numbness can occur at any time. My thoughts are we will see Peyton fumbling some snaps this year due to numbness.

I speak on these issues knowing that I wear braces every day to stabilize wrists that have been injured in almost every sport.

Well said Brent Father time and uncle Arthur take the toll on us all ,when it comes to these nagging sports injurys,not only Pros get these,it just seems more prominent because they are in the lime light,Lord knows i have mine.Your point on Peyton could be right on,i personally hope not but its a distinct possibilty

[bahhummbug]

When you have a severe wrist injury, the old nemesis Arthur Itis kicks in very quickly. My guess is that has happened, and when the pain kicks in his hands become numb.

That is something to also watch with Peyton Manning. With nerve regeneration, numbness can occur at any time. My thoughts are we will see Peyton fumbling some snaps this year due to numbness.

I speak on these issues knowing that I wear braces every day to stabilize wrists that have been injured in almost every sport.

Agree had Anterior Disc Fusion right before peyton C-7 T-1 back in Aug 11.I got strength back and no feeling where Peyton was opposite Doc says Arthur itis is going to be bad.And Doc was right im a better barometer than weatherman now.

[Andy]

I say if no Mid to East coast team is interested in him by the end of April, he'll retire. Even if he gets signed, I don't think he'll do well. So yes, I think his career is essentially over.

[chrisfarley]

How bad was that wrist injury? He went from the Pro Bowl to finished really quickly.

Yea, that dude with the Redskins pounded him into the turf and put extra mustard on it to do him him. I can't remember the dude, was it Landry or someone?

[BrentMc11]

Agree had Anterior Disc Fusion right before peyton C-7 T-1 back in Aug 11.I got strength back and no feeling where Peyton was opposite Doc says Arthur itis is going to be bad.And Doc was right im a better barometer than weatherman now.

Believe me I know the feeling....Wrists and knees...you know hen the storm is coming.

[BrentMc11]

Well said Brent Father time and uncle Arthur take the toll on us all ,when it comes to these nagging sports injurys,not only Pros get these,it just seems more prominent because they are in the lime light,Lord knows i have mine.Your point on Peyton could be right on,i personally hope not but its a distinct possibilty

I hope not too Jay!! I have 2 friends that are with IU PT....they are surprised Peyton can take a stap let alont the rigors of the NFL. Clark's inability to catch passes may have been an indicator of his numbness as well.

[ruksak]

Is a player a bust if he gets hurt?

I consider a player to be a bust if an early career injury prevents him from ever achieving his goals, from ever becoming a great player. Such as Steve Emtman. Where the player never materializes to produce.

Clark had become recognized as one of the most dangerous receiving weapons in the NFL, a pro-bowler and a SB champ. No matter what happens to him now, I cannot see how anyone could refer to him as a bust.

[BrentMc11]

I consider a player to be a bust if an early career injury prevents him from ever achieving his goals, from ever becoming a great player. Such as Steve Emtman. Where the player never materializes to produce.

Clark had become recognized as one of the most dangerous receiving weapons in the NFL, a pro-bowler and a SB champ. No matter what happens to him now, I cannot see how anyone could refer to him as a bust.

I think the player is a bust if he or she is projected to be a star and amounts to nothing. Emtman was a beast before his injuries. Jamarcus Russell comes to mind as a bust and our favorite Ryan Leaf (arrested for burglary yesterday?)

In Basketball, my examples are Sam Bowie and Greg Oden. Both got injured and never could fulfill potential. I cannot consider them a bust because of an unfortunate circumstance. Stromile Swift was a bust, as so was/is Kwame Brown...high draft choices that flat out failed.

I am not saying you are wrong, but different people have different opinions. I feel that a career ending injury does not make a player a bust.

[Gavin]

No Clark wasnt a bust, wanna look for a bust? look at any Defensive Tackle the Colts have had since Tony Siragusa, I havent wrote off Nevis yet, he was injured as for the others Ill wait to see if Pagano can whip them into shape but if he cant then they are a bust, and Ricardo Mattews showed a couple good things last year until he got injured really the jury is still out on Nevis obviously to but not at Defensive Tackle Im moving Nevis to defensive end. Ricardo and maybe Moala, if Pagano cant get them to start playing like they got a pair (of you know whats) then maybe ya keep them three mentioned but they are seriously going to have to impress and put on some weight, I think Nevis would be better at defensive end same with Moala, Matthews may be able to handle Defensive Tackle if we use multiple looks beyond just a 3-4 especially if we can shift him around- ah heck who am I kidding we need MAJOR help their- trying to be optimistic and I cant even buy it myself

[ruksak]

I am not saying you are wrong, but different people have different opinions. I feel that a career ending injury does not make a player a bust.

The word "bust" sounds so dirty. So I try to say "the pick was a bust" in cases like Emtman. Sometimes I'll refer to a trade as a bust if a team trades for a vet and then spends the duration of his contract sitting him from injury. Calling a player a bust is received by many as an insulting label for a player that never tried or never put forth the effort to reach his potential.

[Gavin]

Depends on when the injury took place and how much playing time he was able to get do to his injury or lack of fully recovering, Gonzales was a bust for us cause he couldnt ever stay on the field for a significant amount of time, heck last year I forgot he was on the team! for us he was a bust does that mean he will be for the patriots? no, and also he wasnt ever predicted to be great, solid yes but great no, he is still young enough if he can avoid any more bad injuries then their is a possibility he wont be considered a career bust, for us he was a bust, for the patriots that chapter hasnt been written out yet. I can see him beating out Chad Johnson for a slot receiver role or something BUT only if he can stay healthy, do I have any reason to believe he will stay healthy? no, hes a nice guy Id like to see him succeed but not against us

[IndyTrav]

Clark had become recognized as one of the most dangerous receiving weapons in the NFL, a pro-bowler and a SB champ. No matter what happens to him now, I cannot see how anyone could refer to him as a bust.

I'm not gonna say he was a bust, but he certainly wasn't worth his draft position.

[coltrule]

Clark was a grerat TE... sad nobody has got him yet

[Gavin]

where was he drafted anyway, I never paid atttention to that at the time

[IndyTrav]

where was he drafted anyway, I never paid atttention to that at the time

1st rd. 24th pick.

Witten, same draft, 3rd rd, 69th....28 more games, 269 more rec,3000 more yards, 4 less TDs

[Gavin]

I never considered Dallas elite, he certainly wasnt a bust, elite no, good? of course , certainly no bust

[ruksak]

I'm not gonna say he was a bust, but he certainly wasn't worth his draft position.

Yea, I think Tamme provided us with an example that any TE with a decent pair of hands would've been made into a high-end weapon under Manning.

[braveheartcolt]

Why do NFL fans and pundits need to stick labels on everybody? "Busts", "Elite", "Franchise", "GOAT" etc....

[Gavin]

cause people always try to look for the next big thing it all started with the Jordan era and trying to find someone that they can compare to Jordan which hasnt happened but anyway its case everyone wants to look for the next big thing instead of just enjoying the game for what it is

[JoshTheColtsFan]

It would make Luck's transition to the NFL game much easier if he had a veteran TE like Clark to throw to and learn from for a season. All those years catching passes from Manning, I would think Clark and Wayne together could help develop Luck greatly!

[dgambill]

Sorry, but he did a pretty bad job with the Colts. Over 14 years he never was able to fix the defense. Your premise that I must condlude that Polian did a good job of drafting here in Indianapolis because I could have predicted the busts ahead of time it false. As I said several times, Polian's picks over the last few years were possible to make using a draft sorter on NFL.com or the sports site of your choice. That is not what I expect with a professional draft expert.

Wow. If you think you are a better evaluator of talent than Bill Polian and could have done a better job running the Colts you are absolutely DILUSIONAL! We are talking a sure fire HOF GM here. I won't pretend to defend every single draft pick but the guy was excellent at getting players that fit our schemes. Especially look at some of the late round picks that he got...Collie, Tamme, Thorton, Mathis, Garcon, Scott, June, Bethea I mean the list goes on. Players like Manning and James that weren't forgone lock picks at their positions, Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney who weren't being projected to us...sure he has missed on some lately but Costanza looks like he will be ok. I mean we have been drafting at the end of the 1st round and subsequently every round for over the last decade and we have very very few busts as far as talent wise. Some injury busts but the two picks I question the most are the 2 running back picks of Addai and Brown. Running backs for this team I think can be picked up very cheap in FA and plug and play or late in the draft find talent. Those 2 I think were question marks. As far as not rebuilding the defense I really think that we have had some solid defenses over the years built to play indoors with a lead. Take away PM and you have no lead and come playoff time when we are playing elite defenses it obviously gets difficult for the offense to score and we came up short more often than not. If your not happy with our record over the last decade or more than you should just be a Patriot fan because they are the only team with more success than us. I think he did a good job. Was it time for him to go..perhaps so but I'm not going to diss him for his service.

1st rd. 24th pick.

Witten, same draft, 3rd rd, 69th....28 more games, 269 more rec,3000 more yards, 4 less TDs

It is very easy to go through the past and find a better position player but come on. Witten has been the one consistant threat that Romo could trust in that locker room. Also the offense is more tailored around him in Dallas as opposed to Indy where the receivers are typically the focus. I will agree 100% Witten is a better TE but man that is pretty harsh to judge Clark on that.

Yea, I think Tamme provided us with an example that any TE with a decent pair of hands would've been made into a high-end weapon under Manning.

I will agree...Clark perhaps was a reach at the end of the 1st round but definately wouldn't have been there at the end of round 2. Drafting at the end of rounds is very difficult to get those difference makers at some positions because they typically are few at TE or CB or pass rushers so for us to find picks like Freeney, Mathis, and Clark I can't say are bad. I will say in our offense TE and RB I think Peyton could make anyone look a lot better as long as they had a pair of hands and had any ability at all because of the focus being sooo much on the receivers and the passing game. I think we could get value in middle rounds at those two positions and those are the reaches I think we made in Polians drafts.

[braveheartcolt]

Wow. If you think you are a better evaluator of talent than Bill Polian and could have done a better job running the Colts you are absolutely DILUSIONAL! We are talking a sure fire HOF GM here. I won't pretend to defend every single draft pick but the guy was excellent at getting players that fit our schemes. Especially look at some of the late round picks that he got...Collie, Tamme, Thorton, Mathis, Garcon, Scott, June, Bethea I mean the list goes on. Players like Manning and James that weren't forgone lock picks at their positions, Reggie Wayne, Dwight Freeney who weren't being projected to us...sure he has missed on some lately but Costanza looks like he will be ok. I mean we have been drafting at the end of the 1st round and subsequently every round for over the last decade and we have very very few busts as far as talent wise. Some injury busts but the two picks I question the most are the 2 running back picks of Addai and Brown. Running backs for this team I think can be picked up very cheap in FA and plug and play or late in the draft find talent. Those 2 I think were question marks. As far as not rebuilding the defense I really think that we have had some solid defenses over the years built to play indoors with a lead. Take away PM and you have no lead and come playoff time when we are playing elite defenses it obviously gets difficult for the offense to score and we came up short more often than not. If your not happy with our record over the last decade or more than you should just be a Patriot fan because they are the only team with more success than us. I think he did a good job. Was it time for him to go..perhaps so but I'm not going to diss him for his service.

It is very easy to go through the past and find a better position player but come on. Witten has been the one consistant threat that Romo could trust in that locker room. Also the offense is more tailored around him in Dallas as opposed to Indy where the receivers are typically the focus. I will agree 100% Witten is a better TE but man that is pretty harsh to judge Clark on that.

I will agree...Clark perhaps was a reach at the end of the 1st round but definately wouldn't have been there at the end of round 2. Drafting at the end of rounds is very difficult to get those difference makers at some positions because they typically are few at TE or CB or pass rushers so for us to find picks like Freeney, Mathis, and Clark I can't say are bad. I will say in our offense TE and RB I think Peyton could make anyone look a lot better as long as they had a pair of hands and had any ability at all because of the focus being sooo much on the receivers and the passing game. I think we could get value in middle rounds at those two positions and those are the reaches I think we made in Polians drafts.

HOF GM for picking Manning? Without Manning, his legacy was born. And he was fired......

[willysp]

Wow. If you think you are a better evaluator of talent than Bill Polian and could have done a better job running the Colts you are absolutely DILUSIONAL! We are talking a sure fire HOF GM here. I won't pretend to defend every single draft pick but the guy was excellent at getting players that fit our schemes........

2-14.

Not sure that I need to say any more than that.

[WSO]

It would make Luck's transition to the NFL game much easier if he had a veteran TE like Clark to throw to and learn from for a season. All those years catching passes from Manning, I would think Clark and Wayne together could help develop Luck greatly!

You're missing a space in your name!!

[dgambill]

HOF GM for picking Manning? Without Manning, his legacy was born. And he was fired......

2-14.

Not sure that I need to say any more than that.

Wow it is easy to bash the guy after 1 bad season. He perhaps was a HOF GM before he came to the Colts because of the teams he put together in Buffalo when they went to 4 STRAIGHT Super Bowls....I'm sorry we forget that he built that dynasty...then he moved on to expansion team Carolina Panthers taking them to the NFC title game in 3 years....OH! and he built the team with the greatest record from 2000-2010 in the Indianapolis Colts as well and getting them to 2 super bowls. So total he got his teams to 6 Super Bowls and is widely regarded as one of the best evaluator of talent in the NFL for the last 25 years. He made some mistakes and signed some bad contracts but if you people think Bill Polian was a bad GM than that shows me how much you know about football. He will be in the HOF and among football elite is considered one of the best GMs in the NFL over his tenure.

[Jay Kirk]

I think the player is a bust if he or she is projected to be a star and amounts to nothing. Emtman was a beast before his injuries. Jamarcus Russell comes to mind as a bust and our favorite Ryan Leaf (arrested for burglary yesterday?)

In Basketball, my examples are Sam Bowie and Greg Oden. Both got injured and never could fulfill potential. I cannot consider them a bust because of an unfortunate circumstance. Stromile Swift was a bust, as so was/is Kwame Brown...high draft choices that flat out failed.

I am not saying you are wrong, but different people have different opinions. I feel that a career ending injury does not make a player a bust.

I agree this happens alot,these people you mentioned were loaded with talent and could play at pro level,just unfortinate the body would no longer allow it

[IndyTrav]

Wow it is easy to bash the guy after 1 bad season. He perhaps was a HOF GM before he came to the Colts because of the teams he put together in Buffalo when they went to 4 STRAIGHT Super Bowls....I'm sorry we forget that he built that dynasty...then he moved on to expansion team Carolina Panthers taking them to the NFC title game in 3 years....OH! and he built the team with the greatest record from 2000-2010 in the Indianapolis Colts as well and getting them to 2 super bowls. So total he got his teams to 6 Super Bowls and is widely regarded as one of the best evaluator of talent in the NFL for the last 25 years. He made some mistakes and signed some bad contracts but if you people think Bill Polian was a bad GM than that shows me how much you know about football. He will be in the HOF and among football elite is considered one of the best GMs in the NFL over his tenure.

He was a great talent evaluator until roughly 7 years ago. And it became apparent very quickly how much Peyton Manning contributed to Polians success. If anything Peyton shows Polians glaring deficiencies in drafting.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Is a player a bust if he gets hurt?

No only if he has injury concerns, or was injury prone IMO.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I never considered Dallas elite, he certainly wasnt a bust, elite no, good? of course , certainly no bust

Dude he was VERY GOOD IN HIS PRIME. A TE with his speed & moves where almost unheard of then.

[IndyTrav]

Dude he was VERY GOOD IN HIS PRIME. A TE with his speed & moves where almost unheard of then.

Lol. 3 seasons over 500yds. Unheard of.

[Gavin]

Dude he was VERY GOOD IN HIS PRIME. A TE with his speed & moves where almost unheard of then.

I said he was good not elite

[John Dee]

I don't know. The last couple of years have been injury riddled and when he has played, it has not been at a very high level.

Yep, I think Dallas retired "in his mind" last season. I don't think he wants to play anymore.

[John Dee]

cause people always try to look for the next big thing it all started with the Jordan era and trying to find someone that they can compare to Jordan which hasnt happened but anyway its case everyone wants to look for the next big thing instead of just enjoying the game for what it is

Kobe has far surpassed MJ...