Jonathan Taylor (week 8)

[a06cc 464]

18 hours ago, Fat Clemenza said:

Yes, JT has mis-read some lanes/opportunities and lacked some decisiveness this season, but he's no Trent Richardson.  IMO he's a talented rookie who's devoting a lot of his consciousness to Rathman's mentoring about not fumbling.  

 

He was thrust into carrying the whole load and wasn't ready. I still have high expectations for him settling in and everything clicking for him, including 4th Q of this season. 

I’m not giving up on him as well. He sure isn’t a TR. However he needs to stop trying to do to much guessing. 

[Nickster 872]

1 hour ago, CamMo said:

I remember someone started a thread a while back about Taylor and people tore him up. But there is something to this.

 

Lions fans even noticed. Wilkins was more decisive and quick to hit the hole.

That would be me.  

 

The self appointed elite around here don't allow for opinion out of the company line.

 

JT isn't very good at all right now as a ball carrier.  Unplayable because he ain't no good picking up pass pro either.  Very limited lateral movement and very stiff in the hips.  Plus, Wisco backs tend to be vastly ovefrated historically.

[will426 146]

If you pay attention to the way he played in Wisconsin we ARENT playing his style of football he comes from Zone blocking we barely do that it’s usually shotgun draw up the damn middle lol...each of our backs can benefit in a zone scheme as would the play action plus we’ve seen how good our guards are in the second level and running to the outside why don’t we do it more often? Instead we play that physical man on man and push forward when even at times our line seems to lack the strength they had b4...JT Def has flaws but at the same time we don’t utilize players properly or utilize them at all for that matter at times...see how long we’ve had hines and he’s just now getting wheel routes?  We had multiple backs who can catch and run but we don’t have them out there at the same time or hines in the slot more often especially with WR constantly injured

[Valpo2004 1,616]

17 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Taylor plays a position, running back, that is probably the easiest to transition to in the NFL. By all accounts he is extremely bright, fast and powerful. I dont get it. Oh and is he suppose to, I repeat suppose to have an elite offensive line (loud cough). We maybe seeing the sequel to a bad movie " Star wars....The Rise of Trent Richardson".

 

Taylor seems to have inconsistent vision. . . sometimes he see's the hole and sometimes he misses it.  

 

Trent Richardson was consistent in having no vision.  

 

There are concerns with his vision but it's not Trent Richardson level bad.  

[Myles 4,189]

I'll admit that I am a little disappointed in him.   Not as much as some people on here.  Reich needs to work on the running game to get JT some lanes to run and gain confidence.   I'd like to see him used more in the passing game as well.  

 

 

[Four2itus 5,027]

He'll be fine...maybe not as good as Mack, but good enough. 

[Nickster 872]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

That would be me.  

 

The self appointed elite around here don't allow for opinion out of the company line.

 

JT isn't very good at all right now as a ball carrier.  Unplayable because he ain't no good picking up pass pro either.  Very limited lateral movement and very stiff in the hips.  Plus, Wisco backs tend to be vastly ovefrated historically.

 

Actually, the thread was locked.  It wasn't popular in the echo chamber.

[Rally5 517]

22 hours ago, Robin said:

Anyone knows if he got injured? Diden't seem him until the end in the second half. Or maybe he got pulled he did have 11 carries for only 22 yards (2 avg). vs Jordan Wilkins 20 carries for 89 (4,5 avg) I dont really care what the name of the player running, catching or throwing the ball is aslong as we  win. But a quick eye test did show night and day between our two runningbacks today.

Wilkins has always been a very adept technical runner, I said the day we drafted him, this guy knows how to play the position.  Why doesn't he play more?  No burst, he's about as slow as you can be and play the position.  I really like him and I'm all in for riding him if he can get the job done, I'm a fan.  Taylor's vision suffers and I think he really needs to play in more play action versus from the gun.  I think our run game suffers by our reliance on shotgun snaps.  It will be interesting to see how this all plays out at RB over the next several years.

[JMichael557 173]

Again people are not really watching what is occuring.  JT had a bad first Q stats wise although most was not his fault. He only he one potential bad run.  He ran 6 times for only 12 yard. JW carried 2 times for 8 yds.  In the second half JT was running well and he averaged 3.5 on 4 carries. JW ran four times for an average of 6 per carry but that was accredited to a 16 yard run on a missed tackle. Withou that run he only average 2.6 yards a carry.  In the 3rd Quarter JT did not run the ball. JW had 5 carries for 5 yards an average of 1.0 per carry.  So to say that JW was outperforming JT is just not true. Both backs are hampered by poor run blocking if you watch the tape.  Kelly was blown up several time putting the NT in the backfield to disrupt the play. He cost JT at least one long run.  

[Mr_486lo 15]

I personally thought it was an audition by Wilkins. He will likely be traded. Don't assassinate me...

[John Waylon 1,824]

Running backs aren’t featured weapons in this offense. They’re just random guys coming in to run random plays at random times that don’t include passing the ball. 
 

We try to run Hines like a power back. We try to run Taylor like a guy who can bounce to the outside and burn with speed. 
 

When we run the ball it’s like Reich draws the name of an active RB on game day from one hat, and a random running play out of a second hat and then he puts those together and that’s the playcall. 
 

We don’t do enough to make the running game a weapon of our offense, we just try to use it as a compliment to. 

[shasta519 2,954]

6 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

Again people are not really watching what is occuring.  JT had a bad first Q stats wise although most was not his fault. He only he one potential bad run.  He ran 6 times for only 12 yard. JW carried 2 times for 8 yds.  In the second half JT was running well and he averaged 3.5 on 4 carries. JW ran four times for an average of 6 per carry but that was accredited to a 16 yard run on a missed tackle. Withou that run he only average 2.6 yards a carry.  In the 3rd Quarter JT did not run the ball. JW had 5 carries for 5 yards an average of 1.0 per carry.  So to say that JW was outperforming JT is just not true. Both backs are hampered by poor run blocking if you watch the tape.  Kelly was blown up several time putting the NT in the backfield to disrupt the play. He cost JT at least one long run.  

 

People just like narratives. Indy Star has an article that Wilkins might be forcing a RBC...lol no. The only real difference between Wilkins and JT's efficiency was two runs. And I would be willing to bet that if JT was the one grinding out yards in that 4th quarter...he would have picked up chunk run or two.

 

Wilkins is the guy that gets late game carries when the Colts are up. Just like in this game...where he went 8 for 51 yards on two 4th quarter drives against a tired bad Lions run defense with the game well in hand. Prior to that...he was 12 for 38 yards (and if not for that one run...it's similar to JT's stat line).

 

When Wilkins goes 5 for 9 yards in the next game...it will be crickets.

 

I think the Colts came out of the bye with everyone healthy and fresh...so Reich used all of his backs...like he sometimes does. No need to look further into it than that. But hopefully Taylor takes it to heart and comes out with a vengeance.

[Nickster 872]

13 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Running backs aren’t featured weapons in this offense. They’re just random guys coming in to run random plays at random times that don’t include passing the ball. 
 

We try to run Hines like a power back. We try to run Taylor like a guy who can bounce to the outside and burn with speed. 
 

When we run the ball it’s like Reich draws the name of an active RB on game day from one hat, and a random running play out of a second hat and then he puts those together and that’s the playcall. 
 

We don’t do enough to make the running game a weapon of our offense, we just try to use it as a compliment to. 

I agree.  I don't think it was every the intention of the team to feature JT this year.  His skillset is very limited and I don't think he will ever make a good shotgun runner.  We ran fantastically last year with the same type of O we are running this year as far as the run game goes.  Mack can run those lateral look for your hole zone runs and JT does an emphatically poor job on those plays.

 

They might have been thinking about transitioning to a more power running type of game next year, utilizing Mack's skillset as a zone runner this year while we still had him cheap.

 

I think JT would be much better from an under center downhill type of attack, but I am not convinced that the guy is ever going to be a top type of ball carrier.  I am almost certain he will never be very good in the Colt's present system.  He doesn't start/stop well and needs to get going downhill and be a one cut type of guy 

[shasta519 2,954]

24 minutes ago, Mr_486lo said:

I personally thought it was an audition by Wilkins. He will likely be traded. Don't assassinate me...

 

What would you get for him though? A conditional 7th round pick at best? Teams aren't falling over themselves to trade for a position like RB...let alone one that has 3.7 YPC and will be heading into the last year of his contract.

[Nickster 872]

2 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

People just like narratives. Indy Star has an article that Wilkins might be forcing a RBC...lol no. The only real difference between Wilkins and JT's efficiency was two runs. And I would be willing to bet that if JT was the one grinding out yards in that 4th quarter...he would have picked up chunk run or two.

 

Wilkins is the guy that gets late game carries when the Colts are up. Just like in this game...where he went 8 for 51 yards on two 4th quarter drives against a tired bad Lions run defense with the game well in hand. Prior to that...he was 12 for 38 yards (and if not for that one run...it's similar to JT's stat line).

 

When Wilkins goes 5 for 9 yards in the next game...it will be crickets.

 

I think the Colts came out of the bye with everyone healthy and fresh...so Reich used all of his backs...like he sometimes does. No need to look further into it than that. But hopefully Taylor takes it to heart and comes out with a vengeance.

Wilkins and JTs running style is very different.

 

This was the narrative being pushed last week about JT.  Good YPC.  But the ypc was dismal until the two late 3rd Q runs.  So maybe Taylor would have hit the holes that Wilkins found but I don't necessarily think that is likely.  

[bestQBever 588]

I never realized just how much Marlon Mack meant to us. As a rookie, I want to see flashes of greatness. Consistency is what is developed over time. Mack in his rookie year had some pretty amazing runs and the biggest thing that changed for him was just more opportunities. I have a lot of hope for Taylor next year but he hasn't shown flashes of anything. His YPC is pretty decent but he isnt making plays. He's getting the 3- 4 yards the line gives him and then fails. He can't make anyone miss, vision is inconsistent at best, and the system we run doesn't suit his style. JT would work really well in an under center, run up the gut with a fullback system.

[shasta519 2,954]

Just now, Nickster said:

I agree.  I don't think it was every the intention of the team to feature JT this year.  His skillset is very limited and I don't think he will ever make a good shotgun runner.  We ran fantastically last year with the same type of O we are running this year as far as the run game goes.  Mack can run those lateral look for your hole zone runs and JT does an emphatically poor job on those plays.

 

They might have been thinking about transitioning to a more power running type of game next year, utilizing Mack's skillset as a zone runner this year while we still had him cheap.

 

I think JT would be much better from an under center downhill type of attack, but I am not convinced that the guy is ever going to be a top type of ball carrier.  I am almost certain he will never be very good in the Colt's present system.  He doesn't start/stop well and needs to get going downhill and be a one cut type of guy 

 

Reich loves to run from shotgun...I honestly don't get it. You might be right about how that could limit JT...but he's also only a rookie.

[shasta519 2,954]

9 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Wilkins and JTs running style is very different.

 

This was the narrative being pushed last week about JT.  Good YPC.  But the ypc was dismal until the two late 3rd Q runs.  So maybe Taylor would have hit the holes that Wilkins found but I don't necessarily think that is likely.  

 

Wait...so late carries that propelled JT's YPC last week...but it's not likely he would have gotten them this week? How does that work?

 

The Colts were also down by 6 late in the 3rd quarter...not up by 14+ (like when Wilkins churned out 51 yards on 8 carries against DET). I like JT's chances to break one or two runs in that scenario.

[John Waylon 1,824]

16 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I agree.  I don't think it was every the intention of the team to feature JT this year.  His skillset is very limited and I don't think he will ever make a good shotgun runner.  We ran fantastically last year with the same type of O we are running this year as far as the run game goes.  Mack can run those lateral look for your hole zone runs and JT does an emphatically poor job on those plays.

 

They might have been thinking about transitioning to a more power running type of game next year, utilizing Mack's skillset as a zone runner this year while we still had him cheap.

 

I think JT would be much better from an under center downhill type of attack, but I am not convinced that the guy is ever going to be a top type of ball carrier.  I am almost certain he will never be very good in the Colt's present system.  He doesn't start/stop well and needs to get going downhill and be a one cut type of guy 

Taylor is the kind of guy that needs featured. The more we try to run him through the tackles the better he’s going to get. And the more the defense is going to wear down of tackling him throughout a game. That’s part of what makes Derrick Henry so good. By the time the second half comes around defenses aren’t looking forward to him carrying the ball. 
 

I’ve had problems with the way Reich used RBs going back to last year. Many a times Mack would rip off 2 or 3 good runs in a row and push a defense back against the ropes and out he would come and that progress would be lost to forcing Hines and Wilkins into a game. It’s been that way the whole time under Reich. 
 

I don’t see any particular change in our approach coming. It’s just a bad approach that keeps the run game “just something we do” rather than making it “something we do well”. 
 

Expecting us to be a top 10 running team is not at all unreasonable. But when you look at the top 10 running teams and how they approach their top 10 run game versus how how we approach ours the difference should be very striking. 
 

A few weeks back when Taylor was top 10 in carries I went through the RBs ahead of him on that list and tallied up the % of carries each starter for versus what other RBs on the roster got. 
 

Derrick Henry had 95+% of the Titans carries by RBs. Over 95%. 
 

Taylor had just 56%. That’s a huge difference, and it wasn’t just a huge difference because Henry had such a high percentage. Everyone else on the list was getting a higher % of their teams carries than Taylor. In fact, the next closest to Taylor was about 20% ahead of him. 
 

I really do believe that Reich has a fundamentally flawed approach to the running game. 

[Nickster 872]

2 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Wait...so late carries that propelled JT's YPC last week...but it's not likely he would have gotten them this week? How does that work?

 

The Colts were also down by 6 late in the 3rd quarter...not up by 14+ (like when Wilkins churned out 51 yards on 8 carries against DET). I like JT's chances to break one or two runs in that scenario.

 

No that is not the narrative I am pushing. 

 

I just don't think the guy is very good at running the ball in the Colt's system right now.  I have doubts about his ability because he is not creative or good with lateral quickness.  Wilkins found some holes.  Look at JT's two runs against Cincy late 3Q.  He had truck lanes to run through.  Wilkins had very few weak type runs yesterday, and I am not  huge Wilkins supporter.  WE are getting below average running back play on runs this year.  That should be patently obvious by now.  

 

I am saying the guy runs for less than 2 yds on the majority of his carries behind an all world line that was an fantastic run blocking unit.  I don't think he's very good at running the ball.  

 

[Nickster 872]

3 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Taylor is the kind of guy that needs featured. The more we try to run him through the tackles the better he’s going to get. And the more the defense is going to wear down of tackling him throughout a game. That’s part of what makes Derrick Henry so good. By the time the second half comes around defenses aren’t looking forward to him carrying the ball. 
 

I’ve had problems with the way Reich used RBs going back to last year. Many a times Mack would rip off 2 or 3 good runs in a row and push a defense back against the ropes and out he would come and that progress would be lost to forcing Hines and Wilkins into a game. It’s been that way the whole time under Reich. 
 

I don’t see any particular change in our approach coming. It’s just a bad approach that keeps the run game “just something we do” rather than making it “something we do well”. 
 

Expecting us to be a top 10 running team is not at all unreasonable. But when you look at the top 10 running teams and how they approach their top 10 run game versus how how we approach ours the difference should be very striking. 
 

A few weeks back when Taylor was top 10 in carries I went through the RBs ahead of him on that list and tallied up the % of carries each starter for versus what other RBs on the roster got. 
 

Derrick Henry had 95+% of the Titans carries by RBs. Over 95%. 
 

Taylor had just 56%. That’s a huge difference, and it wasn’t just a huge difference because Henry had such a high percentage. Everyone else on the list was getting a higher % of their teams carries than Taylor. In fact, the next closest to Taylor was about 20% ahead of him. 
 

I really do believe that Reich has a fundamentally flawed approach to the running game. 

Henry wasn't a feature back until his 3rd or 4th year yet still averaged 4.5 ypc as a rook.  Not buying it.

[John Waylon 1,824]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Henry wasn't a feature back until his 3rd or 4th year yet still averaged 4.5 ypc as a rook.  Not buying it.

You somehow managed to entirely miss the point that I was making, but ok. 

[Mr.NotSoCreative 273]

4 hours ago, Nickster said:

That would be me.  

 

The self appointed elite around here don't allow for opinion out of the company line.

 

JT isn't very good at all right now as a ball carrier.  Unplayable because he ain't no good picking up pass pro either.  Very limited lateral movement and very stiff in the hips.  Plus, Wisco backs tend to be vastly ovefrated historically.

He is on pace to have at least 1000 yds from scrimmage this year. Thats not enough from a rook?

[bestQBever 588]

I'm just gonna put this video here in case people didn't see it in the other thread. This is what us JT downers are seeing:

 

This is only from the first 4 weeks of the year and nothing has changed

[chad72 7,383]

40 minutes ago, bestQBever said:

I'm just gonna put this video here in case people didn't see it in the other thread. This is what us JT downers are seeing:

 

This is only from the first 4 weeks of the year and nothing has changed

 

Man, JT has left a whole lot of yards out on the field. I feel we should be doing better with our run game given those blocks.

 

His vision does not match his talent right now and rookie or not, his primarily running in a man scheme in college has probably increased his adjustment level. I can see what JT downers are seeing more clearly now.  Thanks for sharing!!

[2006Coltsbestever 22,285]

People need to remember he is a rookie, Peyton even stunk as a rookie. Patience. 

 

Actually Taylor hasn't even stunk IMO, he has been average at worse and in year 2 may be a lot better.

[chad72 7,383]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

People need to remember he is a rookie, Peyton even stunk as a rookie. Patience. 

 

Actually Taylor hasn't even stunk IMO, he has been average at worse and in year 2 may be a lot better.

 

True. The only problem is we shouldn't hold back our offense with yards left out on the field due to his learning curve. In the meanwhile, I'd be fine with an RBC as long as we can stay upwards of 4.0 YPC. Ultimately, results matter and once he gets better and better, the coaches will know it and he can go back to the 20 plus carries. Right now, 10-15 seems about right, IMO in an RBC, especially when Rivers will be passing more against the better teams to keep them honest. 

[krunk 4,276]

1 hour ago, bestQBever said:

I'm just gonna put this video here in case people didn't see it in the other thread. This is what us JT downers are seeing:

 

This is only from the first 4 weeks of the year and nothing has changed

And these types of fixable errors are a big part of why it seems like the line isnt blocking! They are blocking, but he isnt seeing nor executing things well enough to take advantage. After watching all these games i feel like Wilkins should be the lead dog and let Taylor spell him in the same capacity it was going to be had Mack not have gotten injured. Theres no shame in taking a few less carries while you work things out. Wilkins would have seen all those holes in those videos mostly because hes been here in this system longer than Taylor.

[2006Coltsbestever 22,285]

He is still averaging nearly 4 yards a carry, yes he needs to see holes better but this is something I am not worried about. With him unlike Trent, if he breaks one free he will be gone. 

[chad72 7,383]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He is still averaging nearly 4 yards a carry, yes he needs to see holes better but this is something I am not worried about. With him unlike Trent, if he breaks one free he will be gone. 

 

The big IF. I haven't seen anything that would suggest that. Just keeping my expectations tempered till I see one. Glass half full vs glass half empty, it is fine either way as long as the Colts win.  

[2006Coltsbestever 22,285]

4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

The big IF. I haven't seen anything that would suggest that. Just keeping my expectations tempered till I see one. Glass half full vs glass half empty, it is fine either way as long as the Colts win.  

I agree, I think he will though. Hey look at the bright side we are 5-2 and the Pats are 2-5 lol. Those fans are finally getting a taste of losing.

[zibby43 1,314]

 

 

Contrast with Wilkins, who makes himself skinny upon contact with first defender, and picks up extra yards.

 

 

[bestQBever 588]

3 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

 

Contrast with Wilkins, who makes himself skinny upon contact with first defender, and picks up extra yards.

 

 

wow thank you for this post. The second clip of JT is probably the epitome of what has been going on with him. Imagine if he keeps going straight through the hole instead of cutting left.

[LJpalmbeacher2 1,956]

3 hours ago, John Waylon said:

Running backs aren’t featured weapons in this offense. They’re just random guys coming in to run random plays at random times that don’t include passing the ball. 
 

We try to run Hines like a power back. We try to run Taylor like a guy who can bounce to the outside and burn with speed. 
 

When we run the ball it’s like Reich draws the name of an active RB on game day from one hat, and a random running play out of a second hat and then he puts those together and that’s the playcall. 
 

We don’t do enough to make the running game a weapon of our offense, we just try to use it as a compliment to. 

 

How can they be when they are average at best and our OL is underperforming. 

Mack had talent and was considered a feature back.

[Mr.Debonair 1,722]

14 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

 

Contrast with Wilkins, who makes himself skinny upon contact with first defender, and picks up extra yards.

 

 

The first clip look like it should be on Kelly. He should have sealed off the tackling player

[Nickster 872]

2 hours ago, bestQBever said:

I'm just gonna put this video here in case people didn't see it in the other thread. This is what us JT downers are seeing:

 

This is only from the first 4 weeks of the year and nothing has changed

He’s Trent Richardson with speed running the ball.

 

Hes better because he is dangerous in open space in the passing game, but his a very poor runner of the football right now.

[w87r 5,351]

Seems Taylor is dealing woth ankle injury.

 

I was worried early in the game when he took hit on knee and fell on head.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/11/02/jonathan-taylor-has-a-little-bit-of-an-ankle-injury/

 

 

Sorry of posted prior, checked back last few post.

[Nickster 872]

3 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Again people are not really watching what is occuring.  JT had a bad first Q stats wise although most was not his fault. He only he one potential bad run.  He ran 6 times for only 12 yard. JW carried 2 times for 8 yds.  In the second half JT was running well and he averaged 3.5 on 4 carries. JW ran four times for an average of 6 per carry but that was accredited to a 16 yard run on a missed tackle. Withou that run he only average 2.6 yards a carry.  In the 3rd Quarter JT did not run the ball. JW had 5 carries for 5 yards an average of 1.0 per carry.  So to say that JW was outperforming JT is just not true. Both backs are hampered by poor run blocking if you watch the tape.  Kelly was blown up several time putting the NT in the backfield to disrupt the play. He cost JT at least one long run.  

Didn’t everything you just posted show how clear it was that Wilkins was better?  The whole game he was better according to your stats man.  Am I missing something?

[EastStreet 9,738]

8 hours ago, krunk said:

I liked Williams as well. I sort of wish wed get him back to be part of the crew

I was a little surprised he didn't get touches after running for two straight 100 yard games when Mack was out. He ran pretty strong and you can't argue much with the output. Thought we would at least try to keep him on the PS this year. I think he's on the Lion's PS now.

[Mr.Debonair 1,722]

Wilkins had a better game but that’s not saying much. JT needs to be better. Wouldn’t mind Wilkins getting more carries but ppl need to slow down