Saints Bounty Gate Jurisidictional Head Coaching Control

[southwest1]

In light of Sean Payton's one year NFL suspension from the head coaching ranks as a direct result of player bounties, there is a legitimate case to be made that an offensive minded coach would have no knowledge of what exactly is discussed & debated in defensive meetings up to & including financial compensation pools for individual tackles, touchdowns, & interceptions etc. etc.

I am not absolving Sean Payton of guilt here. He was warned by the NFL commissioner more than once, he ignored these warnings, & he must face the music.

If you asked all 32 team head coaches right now, would they know exactly what is being discussed among DB's, Corners, Safeties, & Linebackers?

How many head coaches could honestly answer that question? My guess would be very, very few...Any thoughts on this?

[jvan1973]

In light of Sean Payton's one year NFL suspension from the head coaching ranks as a direct result of player bounties, there is a legitimate case to be made that an offensive minded coach would have no knowledge of what exactly is discussed & debated in defensive meetings up to & including financial compensation pools for individual tackles, touchdowns, & interceptions etc. etc.

I am not absolving Sean Payton of guilt here. He was warned by the NFL commissioner more than once, he ignored these warnings, & he must face the music.

If you asked all 32 team head coaches right now, would they know exactly what is being discussed among DB's, Corners, Safeties, & Linebackers, how many head coaches could honestly answer that question? My guess what be very, very few...Any thoughts on this?

I think this is in the wrong forum

[JoKeR]

I believe Sean Payton admitted he knew about it.

[southwest1]

I think this is in the wrong forum

The moderators are free to move this topic into NFL General if they so desire. That is fine by me. I would really like feedback on this topic though. Does the left hand always know what the right hand is really doing behind closed NFL doors? A legitimate discussion is warranted here in my opinion. It's too easy to say Sean Payton knew & brush this scandal under the rug. That solves nothing.

[Coltman51]

I think if it just came to light and he said he was unaware of it, say during the season I would be inclined to believe him to some degree. There are a lot of coaches and asst. coaches that I am sure tat many meetings and day to day things can't be known by the Head Coach or GM though it is their business to know Obviously this was a no-no so Williams isn't going be forthcoming with the info. My issue is that "supposedly " Payton and up were informed of the issue and they responded that it would be cleaned up and stopped, yet they apparently didn't take the needed actions and steps to see that it was stopped. With this in mind I don't feel upset or bad for Payton getting the punishment he did. Think he is an outstanding coach and will be for years to come even with this in his past now.

[jvan1973]

The moderators are free to move this topic into NFL General if they so desire. That is fine by me. I would really like feedback on this topic though. Does the left hand always know what the right hand is really doing behind closed NFL doors? A legitimate discussion is warranted here in my opinion. It's too easy to say Sean Payton knew & brush this scandal under the rug. That solves nothing.

I think the reason he got nailed so hard was because he lied to Goodell. As far as Robinson and the the players involved, nobody know how bad its gonna get for them. Also the HC is responsible for his staff. Kind of like when college players take money or benefits from boosters and the NCAA finds out, the coach usually gets nailed too

[southwest1]

Again, let me be crystal clear here: I am not giving Sean Payton a pass here. If a HC gets credit for wins & a Superbowl victory, they deserve the brunt of the blame for unethical conduct too. I agree 100%.

Most NFL head coaches make a thousand decisions per day & they interact with numerous people as well from player agents, the owner, the GM, the equipment manager, training staff, & the kitchen staff.

It would not be uncommon to only see your defensive coordinator on the practice field, early in the morning, or late at night. There is no guarantee a HC would really know what his defensive coordinator implements or discusses with that exact unit 24/7.

[BrentMc11]

I have stated this before in other forums, but I feel that the Saints should NOT be allowed to hire anyone outside of the Saints organization.

The Saints and Payton need to pay the price for bounties. Roger Goodell should shut the door to HOF coaches like Parcells!!! They should NOT be able to hire, and deal with their situation internally!!!

[Peyton and Eli fan]

My understanding was that Sean was involved in the emails discussing the bounty system, so he must have known even beyond being warned.

[southwest1]

My understanding was that Sean was involved in the emails discussing the bounty system, so he must have known even beyond being warned.

An interesting kernel of information, I had not heard before. Thank you Peyton & Eli Fan. I appreciate that new fact.

[eaglejoe8]

Payton may not have known every last detail, but as long as he knows even in a vague sense that it's going on, and either hides it, or lies about it, then he is every bit as culpable.

[KaylaD]

My understanding was that Sean was involved in the emails discussing the bounty system, so he must have known even beyond being warned.

I heard something about that too. They said he got an email from someone saying put me down for however much money on whoever it was. Don't remember the amount or player. I think it is possible for him to not have known everything, but I don't think there is anyway possible for him to not have known anything. I don't feel sorry for him at all either. I think they all got what they deserved. As for the players who were involved it just disappoints me. They all disappoint me really. I hope they all learn from this and feel guilty for it. I guess I would like to see some real remorse. Right now I think it's more of them being sorry they got caught.

[MIColtsFan]

for a certain period of time, he may not have known, but he eventually did and was included in emails I have read.. also after the warnings, which he and the org ignored, he was CERTAINLY aware and very much responsible for allowing it to continue. I think the penalty is fair and that's only based on the limited information I know, I'm sure if I knew more I'd want it to be harsher. I find this bounty system to reprehensible and any org participating in it should be hammered! I feel this way about it for any sport. It's not competition to purposely target people for injury, use your skill to play the game right!

[BrentMc11]

Now it appears Payton will appeal the severity of the penalties to give him time to help in the draft? Since Goodell is the judge, jury, and executioner he should react swiftly with a "CASE CLOSED!" Then he should say ether SPAGs or Carmichael should act as coaches until Assistant Head Coach Joe Vitt returns from suspension.

It is a shame that Bill Parcells feels obligated to help his friend. At 71/72 years of age, he will have to wait for 5 more years for the Hall of Fame. Once again...shameful.

[ColtsPRIDE11]

Ok, here's my two cents (for whatever it's worth to ya, lol). First I want to preface this by saying I know SW, that you are not absolving Payton.

As a HC you are to be so involved in your job--aka your team and staff--to the point where you should have knowledge of what is going on. Whether that knowledge comes straight from the horses mouth or from someone on your staff/team that is not directly involved or from hearing the murmurings among the individuals of which you are in charge of, to me it matters not how you know, but you should know. I correlate being a HC as being in management and therefore hold them to the same standards.

I am a manager at my job. It is my job to know what is going on with my people whether I am directly involved in it or not. I am to be attentive enough to be able to tell what someone is doing w/o having to be told. I should be able to read people well enough to know when they are doing what they are supposed to be doing and when they aren't. That is part of my job...the same goes for Payton. If he did not know what was going on, then he should still be punished because he should have known. Likewise of course, if he knew what was going on but was not directly involved in it he should be punished because he didn't take his staff in hand and end it. And finally of course, if he knew and was participating then I find him reprehensible and he should be treated like Greg WIlliams and be suspended indefinitely. No matter what, Payton wasn't doing his job and the punishment is warranted and fair (IMO).

[ColtsPRIDE11]

Now it appears Payton will appeal the severity of the penalties to give him time to help in the draft? Since Goodell is the judge, jury, and executioner he should react swiftly with a "CASE CLOSED!" Then he should say ether SPAGs or Carmichael should act as coaches until Assistant Head Coach Joe Vitt returns from suspension. It is a shame that Bill Parcells feels obligated to help his friend. At 71/72 years of age, he will have to wait for 5 more years for the Hall of Fame. Once again...shameful.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? Payton is actually going to appeal b/c he believes it is too harsh???? PUHLEEEZZZEEEEE! The more we find out about how involved he was the more I think his sentence isn't severe enough. And to the argument he will likely give of "it's a common practice in the NFL" I say this--I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S BEHIND! If you do the crime, you do the time. You are guilty sir, and you should not be allowed probation of any kind. See ya in a year! Goodell, stick to your guns sir! We are behind you!

As far as Parcell's is concerned, he should not under any circumstances be allowed to even be considered to come in and be HC this season. I am with you Brent. Someone already w/in the Saints organization should have to fill that spot. No "drafting" from outside should be allowed to take place. The SAINTS as a whole should be punished, and they should feel that punishment.

With concern the the players involved--I don't know all of your names yet, but I find you all dispicable. You should not be allowed to play one more down of NFL football. You should be Pete Rose'd. If I was Goodell, that is what I would do. I'd say "See ya! Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!"

[DILLIGAFER]

Payton is the head coach. Everything is his business. He was warned, more than once, lied to the NFL comissioner Goodell, and paid the price. Pretty simple to me.

If he is going to lie to Goodell, it makes people wonder what else he has been doing. See where Im going with this.. once trust is tainted, there is no going back to full trust, so Goodell made it a point to show Payton he is seriuos.

[KaylaD]

I find all of this Parcells stuff absolutely ridiculous! I do not think he should be allowed to come in and coach either. I don't understand how Payton would even entertain the thought of an appeal. Really??? How can you be a part of or know about something like this and do that? Do you really think you deserve to be coaching right now? Just goes to show he only cares because he got caught. How heartless, IMO.

The more I think about this and see things/read things,...I'm convinced he had something to do with it. He may not have started it or ran the thing, I bet he put money in it though. I wonder how these players and coaches would feel if they were on the other side of this? How would they feel down the road if it was there son on the receiving end? Did they ever stop and think, hey this is wrong?

I just do not get how people can do things like this. I guess I will never understand it. I just want to see good, physical, fair football. No crap like this! Play for the love of the game not for the love of money. I am not a Packers fan and I am not a big fan of things Brett Favre did. One thing I always loved about him though was he just loved to play football! You could tell he just loved the game and enjoyed being on the field.

[Thewholefnshow28]

The head of anything tends to carry a huge burden when punishment comes down. Yes, he was not actively involved and his DC Gregg Williams was the one in the thick of things, but he knew about it and did nothing to stop it. Payton was an accessory to this and was punished accordingly.

When it is your team and you knowingly do not stop something that you know that goes against the spirit of the rule and actually breaks league rules then you should go down with the ship as well. Leaders always get hit hard because ultimately they are responsible for their people and their team.

To me he got off light given the fact he knew about it and allowed it to continue.

He probably would not have been punished as harshly had he not lied about it. I think we have all learned through life that you tend to get punished more when you like about something instead of just being honest and taking your punishment.

[southwest1]

Now it appears Payton will appeal the severity of the penalties to give him time to help in the draft? Since Goodell is the judge, jury, and executioner he should react swiftly with a "CASE CLOSED!" Then he should say ether SPAGs or Carmichael should act as coaches until Assistant Head Coach Joe Vitt returns from suspension.

It is a shame that Bill Parcells feels obligated to help his friend. At 71/72 years of age, he will have to wait for 5 more years for the Hall of Fame. Once again...shameful.

I agree this appealing process smacks of egotistical arrogance on the part of Sean Payton. Take you well deserved, light punishment like a man & stop trying to duck, dodge, & delay your penance from knowingly & repeatedly defying the NFL rules & the NFL Commissioner okay.

As far as Bill Parcells is concerned, he is an adult. No one is holding a gun to head saying take over my Saints Head Coaching duties or else. Friendship & loyalty can be sticky situations sometimes of course, but you just look him straight in the eye & say, "I'm 70 years old. I want to relax & enjoy life not raise my blood pressure. Can't you find someone in house or on staff to do it? It pains me to say this Sean but I gotta say no."

[ColtsPRIDE11]

As far as Bill Parcells is concerned, he is an adult. No one is holding a gun to head saying take over my Saints Head Coaching duties or else. Friendship & loyalty can be sticky situations sometimes of course, but you just look him straight in the eye & say, "I'm 70 years old. I want to relax & enjoy life not raise my blood pressure. Can't you find someone in house or on staff to do it? It pains me to say this Sean but I gotta say no."

Nk. What is he thinking saying yes? I know what he's saying...that he feels like he has to help out Payton, that he owes it to him. My response is simply this--No you don't! And by doing this he is putting of the bid to the HOF by 5 yrs...not worth it in my book... ...does he want to be alive to see the day when he gets into Canton???? ... ... ...unless the whole coaching thing has absolutely nothing to do with Payton and everything to do with Brees... ...but still, I stick with this: the Saints should not be allowed to bring in someone else from outside the organization to be HC this year. It's called punishment for a reason.

[subvet]

In light of Sean Payton's one year NFL suspension from the head coaching ranks as a direct result of player bounties, there is a legitimate case to be made that an offensive minded coach would have no knowledge of what exactly is discussed & debated in defensive meetings up to & including financial compensation pools for individual tackles, touchdowns, & interceptions etc. etc.

I am not absolving Sean Payton of guilt here. He was warned by the NFL commissioner more than once, he ignored these warnings, & he must face the music.

If you asked all 32 team head coaches right now, would they know exactly what is being discussed among DB's, Corners, Safeties, & Linebackers?

How many head coaches could honestly answer that question? My guess would be very, very few...Any thoughts on this?

It is the head coaches job to know and declaring ignorance to provide deniability is no excuse either.

[southwest1]

Ok, here's my two cents (for whatever it's worth to ya, lol). First I want to preface this by saying I know SW, that you are not absolving Payton.

As a HC you are to be so involved in your job--aka your team and staff--to the point where you should have knowledge of what is going on. Whether that knowledge comes straight from the horses mouth or from someone on your staff/team that is not directly involved or from hearing the murmurings among the individuals of which you are in charge of, to me it matters not how you know, but you should know. I correlate being a HC as being in management and therefore hold them to the same standards.

I am a manager at my job. It is my job to know what is going on with my people whether I am directly involved in it or not. I am to be attentive enough to be able to tell what someone is doing w/o having to be told. I should be able to read people well enough to know when they are doing what they are supposed to be doing and when they aren't. That is part of my job...the same goes for Payton. If he did not know what was going on, then he should still be punished because he should have known. Likewise of course, if he knew what was going on but was not directly involved in it he should be punished because he didn't take his staff in hand and end it. And finally of course, if he knew and was participating then I find him reprehensible and he should be treated like Greg WIlliams and be suspended indefinitely. No matter what, Payton wasn't doing his job and the punishment is warranted and fair (IMO).

In situations like this, the 1st thing that automatically pops into my head is that famous President Nixon Watergate Scandal line: "What did he know & when did he know it?" A 55 page document obtained by the NFL with Panthers TE Jeremy Shockey as 1 of the key players in the documentation of this bounty scheme sounds like compelling evidence to me.

I believe Sean Payton probably got caught up in the toughness mob mentality of the whole situation like the old expression "It is better to be feared than respected & loved" on a football field.

[ColtsPRIDE11]

In situations like this, the 1st thing that automatically pops into my head is that famous President Nixon Watergate Scandal line: "What did he know & when did he know it?" A 55 page document obtained by the NFL with Panthers TE Jeremy Shockey as 1 of the key players in the documentation of this bounty scheme sounds like compelling evidence to me.

I believe Sean Payton probably got caught up in the toughness mob mentality of the whole situation like the old expression "It is better to be feared than respected & loved" on a football field.

Maybe so, and I'm not saying it was his idea by any means, but if you don't have the kahonas (sp?) to stand up and say "Knock it off" then you will never be the guy who runs your team. And the HC should be the one who lays the law down with his staff and his players. Period. End of story. Granted, many coaches like to be liked and respected, but in some situations you need to be gruff and rough to make sure things are running right w/in the law of the NFL. I know Payton is only human, but he is in a position where he has a higher standard than others. He knows it and he needs to live up to it.

[El Poonerator]

Anyone that keeps written records of know illegal activities deserves to be caught in my book. Saints should have been smarter about it, like the other 31 NFL teams.

[emac]

I agree with the punishment so far but these players and coaches that now play with other teams that are getting suspended only hurts other teams. How is that fair? Maybe if the player plays with another team they receive a serious fine and the Saint's receive more punishment. If the player plays on the Saint's they are suspended.