Still want Cam Newton and Andy Dalton over Philip Rivers?

[Four2itus 4,627]

How in the hell is Brady in this thread? 

[shasta519 2,954]

I think people were talking more about the money aspect.

 

Given the strange circumstances of this offseason...I always thought Rivers and Foles were the two logical choices...though I was (and still am) intrigued by Winston.

[AZColt11 2,191]

The more I think about it, I would take none of those guys.  I'd rather have a younger arm that has a few years on him where at least I kinda know what to expect yet he isn't on the decline like those 3 guys are.  I'd rather have Carr or Wentz or Dak or someone of that ilk.  Good potential, you pretty much know what you are getting, and the arm is still live, plus you get some ability to scramble even if they aren't speed merchants.  If you're going to have to pay big bucks it may as well be for a younger, livelier arm IMHO.

[jlid 60]

35 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

I think people were talking more about the money aspect.

 

Given the strange circumstances of this offseason...I always thought Rivers and Foles were the two logical choices...though I was (and still am) intrigued by Winston.

 

It's funny...reading through this whole thread, nobody brought up Winston until your message...I was about to post that he's who I wanted to thunderous ridicule...To me, he represents hope if he'd learn discipline with a new coaching staff...If not, we bottom out and look to the draft. I prefer both of those to a 8-8, 9-7 stopgap year

[CR91 11,013]

I'm just glad the pats are finally getting their butts kicked.

[crazycolt1 14,174]

5 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

All Rivers will do is win enuff games to take us out of contention for our future qb.

I would rather have a team that wants to win over a team that has a losers mentality. 

Tank=loser mentality

[WoolMagnet 5,028]

5 hours ago, csmopar said:

They have Gabbert inactive today. But the reason I say doubtful is given Ballard’s history, I don’t see a mid season trade unless Jerry Jones offers up a huge premium 

I wasnt arguing your point, i was curious who might be on “the street.”

i could see Jerry potentially liking what JB gas to offer.

it would be interesting to see if Ballard would seriously entertain an offer.  

[2006Coltsbestever 29,089]

10 hours ago, chad72 said:

The grass is always greener on the other side, folks.

 

Philip may not be perfect, he may make a few decisions that may cost a game or two over the season but he is still the best option for the Colts, that will get better with time. His history of picking up steam in November and December will continue and he will have us fighting with TN for the division contender title.

 

Even Brian Hoyer looked good in relief, so folks wanted to anoint Andy Dalton after a brief cameo. Once they made Cam Newton a passer, his inaccuracy loomed large. There is a reason why Peyton, who could not outrun a grandma (agree, it is a bit over the top, but you get the jist ) in his final years, could still be effective. That is the same reason Philip will also be effective for us because he goes through his reads fast and can still hit folks in stride.

 

Anyone else with me? 

I love this thread because there were people that actually said Cam and Dalton would be better than Rivers . Just plain silly, if one knows football, Rivers is a HOFamer.  

[AwesomeAustin 508]

8 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

 

Some said Brady was interested but wanted 2 years and Colts wanted a 1 year deal. I really don't know what the deal was. I'm just saying that Brady was available when we signed Rivers. Seems like TB and the Colts were the two teams that made sense for Brady and Rivers. Just out of curiosity and maybe you do know there's no way Brady would have signed in indy , which team do you think Rivers would have gone to if we waited a bit ? One with a better roster than the Colts (plus his familiarity with Reich) and one that would give him 25 million. 

Most likely scenario is he probably would have retired.  Dude has a lot of kids and would probably just go be a full time dad rather than someone’s backup plan.   However, he is moving up in the record books and that means more to players than they tend to let on. Maybe that would have been enough for Rivers to sign with another team.  Drew Brees will play every year Tom Brady does to stay ahead of him.  
 

 

[lollygagger8 10,781]

Who in their right mind ever thought Cam Newton was a good passer? 

[coming on strong 597]

8 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

guess not every year 

Dalton fell off way to hard he was a pro bowler with the Bengals they went to the playoffs every year with him for a while .  I still believe he was  good but I wouldn't feel good about him with our weapons he cant carry a team like a elite qb .   Share everything I said not just one snippet my point was about rivers getting 25 million and that dalton been to the playoffs around the same times and he got signed for dirt cheap .

[coming on strong 597]

26 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Who in their right mind ever thought Cam Newton was a good passer? 

He is not a bad passer . He makes teamed running games much better .  That is why I wanted him because we are a ground n pound team. Cam fits that and can throw off playaction very well. 

[jbaron04 652]

Cam for 1mil I would still sign that deal , dalton never in a millon years 

[chad72 13,419]

I was seeing a stat on Sunday Night football, next to Russell Wilson, the Colts of 2012-2014 were the ones with the most wins in 1 score games in a 3 year span, 16 of them to be precise. Man, we were blessed.

[DontEverGiveUp 486]

We lost the focal point of our offense in the first quarter of the first game, and then we lost WR2 and WR3.

 

Considering everything, I think 4-2 is an acceptable start with Rivers.  A lot of QBs that some fans said they'd prefer are stinking it up this year.  Brady is looking good, but he also has an elite offense around him.

[teganslaw 640]

9 hours ago, Four2itus said:

How in the hell is Brady in this thread? 

Brady appears everywhere, even when he's not wanted. 

[lollygagger8 10,781]

1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

He is not a bad passer . He makes teamed running games much better .  That is why I wanted him because we are a ground n pound team. Cam fits that and can throw off playaction very well. 

[coltsfeva 1,635]

14 hours ago, coming on strong said:

i dont think rivers would be much better with the pats weapons they are the worst in the nfl right now .  the defense is down to back ups and the run game is struggling .  At the very least for the price cam got offered it would be nice to bring cam in as a backup and trade jacoby to a desperate team .

     Like Dallas or NE ?

  I like the idea of trading Jacoby. Both Dallas and NE may be in need and there may be others, that could be interested.
  NE makes more sense for Jacoby than Dallas, as he would have the opportunity to start next year, if he can turns things around. 
   What you want to trade Jacoby? Would you do it for a 3 and taking his contact off the Colts roster $$ ?

    What do you think he’s worth, with competition on the market?

 

    If they did trade him to another club, would you then:

a. Make Eason backup and 

add Kelly to the practice squad ?

b. Add Kelly to the 53, let him and Eason compete for the backup spot?

c. Sign a veteran to a one-year deal and make him the backup?

 

 IMO I’d choose “b” unless the Colts really feel strong about keeping Brissett. I like the idea of giving Kelly a shot to at least, compete. If they did trade Brissett, and they want to take a chance to see what they have in Eason,  they should at least bring Kelly back to the practice squad, for insurance.   

   The Colts may be getting phone calls some time this year about Brissett and if QBs keep going down, Brissett’s value might go up.
 

  To me, it just makes sense that would listen to offers:

   You’d be getting draft capital back, a possible reduction in your contract money owed and the opportunity for Eason to get experience or for he and Kelly to compete.

  Jacoby would get his opportunity. 
 

  

[BeanDiasucci 152]

1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

He is not a bad passer . He makes teamed running games much better .  That is why I wanted him because we are a ground n pound team. Cam fits that and can throw off playaction very well. 

He's a pretty bad passer. cam-newton-has-thrown-the-highest-of-uncatchable-balls-so-far/

https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2019-09-13-the-nfl-has-moved-away-from-inaccurate-quarterbacks-like-cam-newton/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2020/10/25/cam-newton-benched-new-england-patriots-san-francisco-niners-score/6035979002/?fbclid=IwAR3TxmVE80WUto-ZDnIt4bUXB_RReyLa2WoYNQ1NCrPLXUx3Y-5aJu3XULw

 

Quote

On Sunday evening, the Patriots hit a low point in this post-Tom Brady era as Newton was erratic, inaccurate and unproductive before being benched for backup Jarrett Stidham in the fourth quarter. Newton went 9-of-15 passing for 98 yards with three interceptions and a 39.7 quarterback rating in this troubling 33-6 loss to the San Francisco 49ers, the largest margin of defeat in a home loss during the Bill Belichick era.

 

[crazycolt1 14,174]

1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

He is not a bad passer . He makes teamed running games much better .  That is why I wanted him because we are a ground n pound team. Cam fits that and can throw off playaction very well. 

Cam is not a bad passer? 

He has a 59.82 percentage his whole career. He has averaged 7.2 per pass. 

He also averages 11.5 interceptions per year. 

Those numbers do not match a QB that you say is not a bad passer. 

[John Hammonds 1,134]

Ok, I'm gonna raise my hand and admit that I was one of those people who preferred Andy Dalton over Phillip Rivers.  I always liked Dalton.  When Jon Gruden was doing his QB camp ESPN specials back in 2011, there was just something more special that I saw in him over the more popular QB's that came out that year, like Cam Newton, Jake Locker, and Blain Gabbert.  He had a special ability that enabled him to just draw up a play in the dirt, and go lead other men to do it.  It was a seat-of-your-pants style that was infectious.  Similar to Brett Favre, only nowhere near as talented as Favre was.

 

And when the Colts were reportedly shopping for a veteran QB to bring in to start over Brissett, I was all-in on Dalton over Rivers, Newton, Brady, Bridgewater, or any of the others.

 

It's too bad that Andy Dalton got his clock cleaned this week.  Best of luck to him.

 

As for me, I'll keep rooting for the Colts, wishing the best for Rivers, and watching Eason with hope, high scrutiny, and expectation.

[crazycolt1 14,174]

It is dumbfounding to me that there are those who think Brissett is worth anything in a trade but he is not good enough to start for the Colts. 

 

[IanColts22 2]

Been on this forum for years but first time posting.  After reading through this thread.  I think Rivers still is the best option for the Colts.  I don’t think Cam can lead us anywhere and Dalton just is done.  

[OffensivelyPC 6,025]

47 minutes ago, IanColts22 said:

Been on this forum for years but first time posting.  After reading through this thread.  I think Rivers still is the best option for the Colts.  I don’t think Cam can lead us anywhere and Dalton just is done.  

Dalton was never good.  He had moments and that's the best I can really say.  I don't want Cam at all.  After seeing him give up on a fumbled football in the super bowl, I could never trust his leadership.  The future signal caller for the Colts will come in the draft, hopefully Eason or a QB we draft in the next few years.  I'm not entirely optimistic, but I certainly don't think a FA QB is the solution.

[BigO 52]

Not sure what happened to Cam. He played really well the first couple of games but after getting covid he has been really bad. He also has little talent around him. As for Rivers he had a great game against the Bengals but even Baker Mayfield had 5 touchdowns against them. We will see how he does against the tougher part of schedule coming up.

[LJpalmbeacher2 1,912]

15 hours ago, Four2itus said:

How in the hell is Brady in this thread? 

He CHEATED his way in. 

[Superman 37,536]

Cam would have required a significant overhaul to our offense. The impact that would have had on the other players, with no real offseason or training camp, is hard to account for. Add in his limitations as a pro passer and his injury situation, and there were always reasons to be concerned about adding Cam. Yet there was the potential to add some dynamic playmaking, in both phases.

 

There were also reasons to be concerned with Rivers. Primarily whether he could still play at a high enough level. Still undetermined at this point. But we didn't have to make wholesale changes to the offense, the other players wouldn't have to adjust to a new style/approach, and he could serve as a bridge to the next QB without major adjustments, now or later. Kind of just plug and play one guy, and keep it moving. 

 

Now, either Rivers can produce efficiently and avoid mistakes, particularly in big moments throughout the season, or he can't. But there are fewer variables in that equation, compared to going with Cam.

[John Waylon 3,746]

I always liked Dalton coming out of college. But years of being stuck under Marvin Lewis have corrupted him as a QB. Lots of bad habits developed and plenty of development left on the table. 
 

Never wanted either of them for this team. 

[Grigson's Gaffes 634]

“Hoyer looked good in relief” 

 

He had 130 Yds, an INT and a fumble lost before he got benched. Way to show your credentials on evaluating QB play. The Patriots offense is also devoid of weapons, if he were on the Colts, the results would be a lot better. If Rivers were on the Pats, he would look a lot worse.

[IanColts22 2]

6 hours ago, BigO said:

Not sure what happened to Cam. He played really well the first couple of games but after getting covid he has been really bad. He also has little talent around him. As for Rivers he had a great game against the Bengals but even Baker Mayfield had 5 touchdowns against them. We will see how he does against the tougher part of schedule coming up.

At this point in the season doesn’t matter what Baker Mayfield and Browns did to the Bengals and what our Colts and Rivers did to them.  We have placed all our hopes on Rivers shoulder to hopefully get us to the holy land aka Super Bowl.  I believe though Rivers will and still is our best chance at QB to get us there.  There isn’t anyone else FA wise that would be better for us.  

[Four2itus 4,627]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

But there are fewer variables in that equation, compared to going with Cam.

and there is also the leadership piece. I think that flies big with Frank. Rivers is a leader from what I have seen and read. 

[danlhart87 4,847]

19 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

and there is also the leadership piece. I think that flies big with Frank. Rivers is a leader from what I have seen and read. 

He leads about 9 kids which looks great on his resume 

[Coffeedrinker 8,146]

On 10/26/2020 at 7:05 AM, lollygagger8 said:

Who in their right mind ever thought Cam Newton was a good passer? 

The same people that think Dak Prescot and Deshaun Watson are good passers.  They are all good QBs but they all struggle when they need to sit in the pocket, go through their progressions, make the correct read and throw the ball on the money... they are all lacking.

[chad72 13,419]

14 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

“Hoyer looked good in relief” 

 

He had 130 Yds, an INT and a fumble lost before he got benched. Way to show your credentials on evaluating QB play. The Patriots offense is also devoid of weapons, if he were on the Colts, the results would be a lot better. If Rivers were on the Pats, he would look a lot worse.

 

Should have explained. It was not from this year.

 

It was from Brian Hoyer's cameo in relief of Brissett vs the Steelers that he looked good briefly last year, though he had a pick six as well. Lot of us felt like he threw in anticipation and might end up better than JB if we gave him a chance and were wrong. Then, we thought he was good enough for the starter vs the Dolphins and it came unraveling.

 

THAT is why I made the comparison to Dalton. Dalton led them down to a game winning FG vs the Giants in a brief cameo and they thought he was good enough to be a starter, just like we did with Hoyer last year, and it came down like a house of cards vs the Cardinals for Dalton over an entire game.

 

I guess you are a Cam supporter and you probably did not see him throw rockets to Edelman (or just ignored it for your convenience), and does not lead his pass catchers properly nor did he put enough touch on his throws. Rivers would have done better on the Pats than Cam, 100% certain.

[DougDew 4,284]

On 10/26/2020 at 10:47 AM, John Hammonds said:

Ok, I'm gonna raise my hand and admit that I was one of those people who preferred Andy Dalton over Phillip Rivers.  I always liked Dalton.  When Jon Gruden was doing his QB camp ESPN specials back in 2011, there was just something more special that I saw in him over the more popular QB's that came out that year, like Cam Newton, Jake Locker, and Blain Gabbert.  He had a special ability that enabled him to just draw up a play in the dirt, and go lead other men to do it.  It was a seat-of-your-pants style that was infectious.  Similar to Brett Favre, only nowhere near as talented as Favre was.

 

And when the Colts were reportedly shopping for a veteran QB to bring in to start over Brissett, I was all-in on Dalton over Rivers, Newton, Brady, Bridgewater, or any of the others.

 

It's too bad that Andy Dalton got his clock cleaned this week.  Best of luck to him.

 

As for me, I'll keep rooting for the Colts, wishing the best for Rivers, and watching Eason with hope, high scrutiny, and expectation.

Years ago when he was about to get fired or recently got fired, Bill Polian said that one of his biggest mistakes was not drafting Andy Dalton, who would have been a backup then heir to PM.  He was looking to still keep the PM team together and couldn't pull the trigger.

 

This was after the Curtis Painter season and BP was disappointed over his inability to have a backup QB for PM, and one who had talent to take over.

 

So maybe he saw in Dalton what you saw.  It probably would have been better for Dalton to learn under Moore/PM than to lead Cincy under Marvin Lewis and all of the distractions.

 

I didn't want Rivers because I thought his arm was shot, looking at last season.  Still not sure its 100%,and I thought Dalton would be a better option.

 

Never wanted Cam, who I have always thought was a bad QB when he can't be a running threat.

[coming on strong 597]

On 10/26/2020 at 10:36 AM, crazycolt1 said:

Cam is not a bad passer? 

He has a 59.82 percentage his whole career. He has averaged 7.2 per pass. 

He also averages 11.5 interceptions per year. 

Those numbers do not match a QB that you say is not a bad passer. 

Weapons matter though look at brady this year .last year he was bottom 5 in a lot of passing stats . Cam never had elite weapons . You don't win mvp being terrible.  Also winning rookie of the year .  Didnt luck have below 60 percent a couple of years with a ton of picks ?  I believe luck is elite he just had a bad line and weapons those years 

[coming on strong 597]

20 hours ago, Superman said:

Cam would have required a significant overhaul to our offense. The impact that would have had on the other players, with no real offseason or training camp, is hard to account for. Add in his limitations as a pro passer and his injury situation, and there were always reasons to be concerned about adding Cam. Yet there was the potential to add some dynamic playmaking, in both phases.

 

There were also reasons to be concerned with Rivers. Primarily whether he could still play at a high enough level. Still undetermined at this point. But we didn't have to make wholesale changes to the offense, the other players wouldn't have to adjust to a new style/approach, and he could serve as a bridge to the next QB without major adjustments, now or later. Kind of just plug and play one guy, and keep it moving. 

 

Now, either Rivers can produce efficiently and avoid mistakes, particularly in big moments throughout the season, or he can't. But there are fewer variables in that equation, compared to going with Cam.

I definitely think that is why they signed rivers being familiar with Frank's offense . Also by March covid was starting to get bad and that could of played a part on the decision.  They probably heard that preseason would be cut at that point .   

 

 I changed my mind on rivers in the last week . With the kind of offseason and the injuries to his play makers I think he could keep improving as the season goes on .  It was to early for me to write him off .  If he can just cut down on the picks he doesn't even have to be great .just be solid like Tannehill was for the titans last year, and we can make the playoffs .

[Four2itus 4,627]

[Indyfan4life 1,595]

1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

I definitely think that is why they signed rivers being familiar with Frank's offense . Also by March covid was starting to get bad and that could of played a part on the decision.  They probably heard that preseason would be cut at that point .   

 

 I changed my mind on rivers in the last week . With the kind of offseason and the injuries to his play makers I think he could keep improving as the season goes on .  It was to early for me to write him off .  If he can just cut down on the picks he doesn't even have to be great .just be solid like Tannehill was for the titans last year, and we can make the playoffs .

I think if he can manage to begin throwing downfield and the defense not give up 21 points in the first half, teams will have to respect us a bit more and not load the box for runs.

[Thebrashandthebold 10]

On 10/25/2020 at 6:16 PM, chad72 said:

The grass is always greener on the other side, folks.

 

Philip may not be perfect, he may make a few decisions that may cost a game or two over the season but he is still the best option for the Colts, that will get better with time. His history of picking up steam in November and December will continue and he will have us fighting with TN for the division contender title.

 

Even Brian Hoyer looked good in relief, so folks wanted to anoint Andy Dalton after a brief cameo. Once they made Cam Newton a passer, his inaccuracy loomed large. There is a reason why Peyton, who could not outrun a grandma (agree, it is a bit over the top, but you get the jist ) in his final years, could still be effective. That is the same reason Philip will also be effective for us because he goes through his reads fast and can still hit folks in stride.

 

Anyone else with me? 

 

I would take Cam over Rivers at anytime in his career including right now. The Patriots don't have many weapons on offense anymore and Cam is carrying everything. He missed two weeks of practice as did most of the team with Covid-19. He will be back and he will be back 100%. There is nothing wrong with his arm. There is nothing wrong with his legs and certainly nothing wrong with his legs. Cam Newton is a sure fire Hall of Famer not a borderline selection like Rivers. Now add that Rivers cost $24 million dollars more this year. Yeah, I take Cam and it isn't even close.