A very alarming stat

[DownHillRunner 355]

According to Next Gen Stats 

 

 

"Rookie RB Jonathan Taylor has faced a stacked box on 27.27% of his carries this season. 5th most in the NFL (min 30 attempts)."

 

 

 

Last season, Marlon Mack saw a stacked box on 12.15% of his carries. 39th in the NFL (min 85 carries).

 

 

Nobody fears Rivers ability to throw the ball downfield until he proves he can do it on a consistent basis. The Bengals game was a start and Marcus Johnson will help stretch the field. People should stop pointing fingers at the offensive line and dig more deeper into why the running game hasn't been better than it was last year. Loosing Mack hurt a lot more than people thought as well. The Lions give up a ton of yards on the ground and if the running game is going the time is now!

 

 

[Jared Cisneros 3,769]

2 minutes ago, DownHillRunner said:

According to Next Gen Stats 

 

 

"Rookie RB Jonathan Taylor has faced a stacked box on 27.27% of his carries this season. 5th most in the NFL (min 30 attempts)."

 

 

 

Last season, Marlon Mack saw a stacked box on 12.15% of his carries. 39th in the NFL (min 85 carries).

 

 

Nobody fears Rivers ability to throw the ball downfield until he proves he can do it on a consistent basis. The Bengals game was a start and Marcus Johnson will help stretch the field. People should stop pointing fingers at the offensive line and dig more deeper into why the running game hasn't been better than it was last year. Loosing Mack hurt a lot more than people thought as well. The Lions give up a ton of yards on the ground and if the running game is going the time is now!

 

 

Good stat, and it shows how good Taylor is honestly. He is still averaging over 4 yards the last 4 games per carry and 5 last week. If Rivers starts playing like last week, maybe we can finally have a balanced offense.

[chad72 6,585]

It is more an indictment of Reich's predictable play calling, IMO. 

[LJpalmbeacher2 1,652]

6 minutes ago, DownHillRunner said:

According to Next Gen Stats 

 

 

"Rookie RB Jonathan Taylor has faced a stacked box on 27.27% of his carries this season. 5th most in the NFL (min 30 attempts)."

 

 

 

Last season, Marlon Mack saw a stacked box on 12.15% of his carries. 39th in the NFL (min 85 carries).

 

 

Nobody fears Rivers ability to throw the ball downfield until he proves he can do it on a consistent basis. The Bengals game was a start and Marcus Johnson will help stretch the field. People should stop pointing fingers at the offensive line and dig more deeper into why the running game hasn't been better than it was last year. Loosing Mack hurt a lot more than people thought as well. The Lions give up a ton of yards on the ground and if the running game is going the time is now!

 

 

By term "stacked box", does that mean 8 or more men in Box?

[Nickster 787]

Just now, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

By term "stacked box", does that mean 8 or more men in Box?

 

Yes.  Another factor is the amount of throws out of the backfield.  You need guys in the box or you can't cover those routes effectively.  We don't have anyone taking the top off the D, that's for sure.  

[Nickster 787]

It is my unpopular opinion that Taylor's limitations also hurt the running game.  Teams don't have to worry about Taylor shaking anybody and creating a lot of yardage.  He has good yac with the power in the 2nd level but I would assume he is near the bottom at making people miss.  You can crowd the box when you aren't afraid of a LB losing his shorts and that being a TD.  Taylor will outrun poeple when there is a lane but he absolutely needs the lane right now.  He is very uncreative.  He is going to be a one cut guy, they can be effective, but  they have to have elite vision and anticipation.  JT definitely does not have that right now.

 

 

 

That is why he is most impressive in his few receptions.  He is in open field and can burst.  

 

I  think the biggest difference between the ypc last year to this year is the RB situaiton.

[AustexColt 110]

Hopefully in the second half of this season Frank will open up the passing game, which will then open the run. 

[will426 146]

54 minutes ago, DownHillRunner said:

According to Next Gen Stats 

 

 

"Rookie RB Jonathan Taylor has faced a stacked box on 27.27% of his carries this season. 5th most in the NFL (min 30 attempts)."

 

 

 

Last season, Marlon Mack saw a stacked box on 12.15% of his carries. 39th in the NFL (min 85 carries).

 

 

Nobody fears Rivers ability to throw the ball downfield until he proves he can do it on a consistent basis. The Bengals game was a start and Marcus Johnson will help stretch the field. People should stop pointing fingers at the offensive line and dig more deeper into why the running game hasn't been better than it was last year. Loosing Mack hurt a lot more than people thought as well. The Lions give up a ton of yards on the ground and if the running game is going the time is now!

 

 

Been plenty occasions where the line flat out gets stood up man on man  they haven’t looked as great as last year when they had to block for jb unfortunately can’t blame them vs stacked boxes but also can’t ignore what’s on film 

[danlhart87 6,250]

37 minutes ago, Nickster said:

It is my unpopular opinion that Taylor's limitations also hurt the running game.  Teams don't have to worry about Taylor shaking anybody and creating a lot of yardage.  He has good yac with the power in the 2nd level but I would assume he is near the bottom at making people miss.  You can crowd the box when you aren't afraid of a LB losing his shorts and that being a TD.  Taylor will outrun poeple when there is a lane but he absolutely needs the lane right now.  He is very uncreative.  He is going to be a one cut guy, they can be effective, but  they have to have elite vision and anticipation.  JT definitely does not have that right now.

 

 

 

That is why he is most impressive in his few receptions.  He is in open field and can burst.  

 

I  think the biggest difference between the ypc last year to this year is the RB situaiton.

That doesn't necessarily mean he will never improve in those areas. He seems to be playing better each week and that's exactly what the Colts need from him.

 

 

[w87r 4,098]

Sure is a lot of talking down on a guy who is averaging 4.1ypc, against said stacked boxes. While catching 16/17 pass attempts his way.

 

People must forget Mack averaging 3.8ypc his rookie season.

 

Tomlinson averaged 3.6ypc his rookie year, 4.3ypc for career.

Emmitt Smith 3.9ypc rookie season, 4.2ypc for his career

Walter Payton 3.5ypc rookie season

Curtis Martin 4.0ypc rookie year, 4.0ypc for career

Jerome Bettis 3.9ypc for his career

Marshall Faulk 4.1ypc rookie year, 4.3ypc for career

 

 

Half of the top 12 rushers of all time above. Good thing their teams didn't give up on them after 6 games(5 1/2).

 

 

Some people complain about anything.

[EastStreet 8,728]

51 minutes ago, DownHillRunner said:

According to Next Gen Stats 

 

"Rookie RB Jonathan Taylor has faced a stacked box on 27.27% of his carries this season. 5th most in the NFL (min 30 attempts)."

 

Last season, Marlon Mack saw a stacked box on 12.15% of his carries. 39th in the NFL (min 85 carries).

 

Nobody fears Rivers ability to throw the ball downfield until he proves he can do it on a consistent basis. The Bengals game was a start and Marcus Johnson will help stretch the field. People should stop pointing fingers at the offensive line and dig more deeper into why the running game hasn't been better than it was last year. Loosing Mack hurt a lot more than people thought as well. The Lions give up a ton of yards on the ground and if the running game is going the time is now!

It's more like teams started figuring out Reich's dink/dunk, and started playing tighter. After game 1, the passing attempts decreased. Rivers is #5 in deep ball accuracy, so it's not like he can't throw it downfield. We've seen him do at times, with a top 10 rate of success. If he's #5, that means he's consistent. That means it's lack of play calling.

 

Also, you can't ignore some of the inconsistent or bad OL performances. Mack, Hicks, Garrett, and Jack were all getting good pressure, especially Garrett. 

 

As far as the running game, Taylor is a rook, is coming from a power/gap scheme, and will need time to get his timing down with our zone scheme. It took Mack almost a year to get it down.

43 minutes ago, chad72 said:

It is more an indictment of Reich's predictable play calling, IMO. 

Bingo

42 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Yes.  Another factor is the amount of throws out of the backfield.  You need guys in the box or you can't cover those routes effectively.  We don't have anyone taking the top off the D, that's for sure.  

Not having guys deep, or having too many early read short pasing, is a function of play calling. 

24 minutes ago, Nickster said:

It is my unpopular opinion that Taylor's limitations also hurt the running game.  Teams don't have to worry about Taylor shaking anybody and creating a lot of yardage.  He has good yac with the power in the 2nd level but I would assume he is near the bottom at making people miss.  You can crowd the box when you aren't afraid of a LB losing his shorts and that being a TD.  Taylor will outrun poeple when there is a lane but he absolutely needs the lane right now.  He is very uncreative.  He is going to be a one cut guy, they can be effective, but  they have to have elite vision and anticipation.  JT definitely does not have that right now.

 

That is why he is most impressive in his few receptions.  He is in open field and can burst.  

 

I  think the biggest difference between the ypc last year to this year is the RB situaiton.

Good lord he's a rook. Took Mack a year to get his timing down. He's coming from a power/gap and now learning zone. And he's having to do that with play calling that draws the D tighter.... 

 

He's got the same AVG as Elliot and Peterson, and has a better AVG than McCaffery, Mixon, and Jacobs. I get it, he's not setting the world on fire, but he's not terrible either.

[pgt_rob 671]

1 hour ago, DownHillRunner said:

According to Next Gen Stats 

 

 

"Rookie RB Jonathan Taylor has faced a stacked box on 27.27% of his carries this season. 5th most in the NFL (min 30 attempts)."

 

 

 

Last season, Marlon Mack saw a stacked box on 12.15% of his carries. 39th in the NFL (min 85 carries).

 

 

Nobody fears Rivers ability to throw the ball downfield until he proves he can do it on a consistent basis. The Bengals game was a start and Marcus Johnson will help stretch the field. People should stop pointing fingers at the offensive line and dig more deeper into why the running game hasn't been better than it was last year. Loosing Mack hurt a lot more than people thought as well. The Lions give up a ton of yards on the ground and if the running game is going the time is now!

 

 

 

Kinda alarming but doesn't quite make sense in that particular way. Does that mean people thought Brissett was going to throw it down field more then? I think the stats proved that Rivers has thrown down field more. 

[GoColts8818 4,348]

If Rivers can play like he did Sunday vs the Lions that should make that stat go down some.

[dw49 702]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

It is more an indictment of Reich's predictable play calling, IMO. 

 

Maybe taking that a step further , could it be that there's too much predictability from our formations ? Seems like with so many of his runs there appears to be like 16 men on defense. I think often the defense flows toward the run at the snap. Could it be that  teams know we run like 80% of time out of a certain formation ?

 

[chad72 6,585]

12 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

If Rivers can play like he did Sunday vs the Lions that should make that stat go down some.

 

The Lions actually played the run well vs the Jags coming off their bye. Every team makes adjustments, won't remain putrid on a particular facet forever. So, like you said, the Lions will force Rivers to beat them by ganging up on the run. 

[chad72 6,585]

11 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

Maybe taking that a step further , could it be that there's too much predictability from our formations ? Seems like with so many of his runs there appears to be like 16 men on defense. I think often the defense flows toward the run at the snap. Could it be that  teams know we run like 80% of time out of a certain formation ?

 

 

Whatever it is, it flies in the face of what they have said (Reich and Sirianni), that they wanted to be "unpredictable". 

[Coffeedrinker 3,537]

2 hours ago, DownHillRunner said:

According to Next Gen Stats 

 

 

"Rookie RB Jonathan Taylor has faced a stacked box on 27.27% of his carries this season. 5th most in the NFL (min 30 attempts)."

 

 

 

Last season, Marlon Mack saw a stacked box on 12.15% of his carries. 39th in the NFL (min 85 carries).

 

 

Nobody fears Rivers ability to throw the ball downfield until he proves he can do it on a consistent basis. The Bengals game was a start and Marcus Johnson will help stretch the field. People should stop pointing fingers at the offensive line and dig more deeper into why the running game hasn't been better than it was last year. Loosing Mack hurt a lot more than people thought as well. The Lions give up a ton of yards on the ground and if the running game is going the time is now!

 

 

So is that percentage on plays where JT ran the ball or is the percentage on plays where JT was lined up in the backfield?

 

The reason I'm asking is because if it's on plays where JT runs the ball, then it adds credence to @chad72 comment about the predictability of Reich's play calling.  If it's on plays were JT is in the backfield, then I think it shows more that teams are not as worried about the Colts going deep in the passing game whether that is because of Rivers or because the Colts don't have a receiver that can take the top off a defense is open for debate.

[w87r 4,098]

17 minutes ago, dw49 said:

Could it be that  teams know we run like 80% of time out of a certain formation ?

That's another issue all in itself.

 

I personally think it is tough to get going down hill, when starting from a standstill. Which Taylor usually is, from the shotgun formation.

 

Would love to see the percentage of plays we run from shotgun.

 

Way to many, but that is where Rivers is most comfortable.

[EastStreet 8,728]

8 minutes ago, w87r said:

That's another issue all in itself.

 

I personally think it is tough to get going down hill, when starting from a standstill. Which Taylor usually is, from the shotgun formation.

 

Would love to see the percentage of plays we run from shotgun.

 

Way to many, but that is where Rivers is most comfortable.

24% under center (broken down 79% run / 21% pass)

76% shotgun (broken down 32% run / 68% pass)

 

 

[bestQBever 569]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

It is my unpopular opinion that Taylor's limitations also hurt the running game.  Teams don't have to worry about Taylor shaking anybody and creating a lot of yardage.  He has good yac with the power in the 2nd level but I would assume he is near the bottom at making people miss.  You can crowd the box when you aren't afraid of a LB losing his shorts and that being a TD.  Taylor will outrun poeple when there is a lane but he absolutely needs the lane right now.  He is very uncreative.  He is going to be a one cut guy, they can be effective, but  they have to have elite vision and anticipation.  JT definitely does not have that right now.

 

 

 

That is why he is most impressive in his few receptions.  He is in open field and can burst.  

 

I  think the biggest difference between the ypc last year to this year is the RB situaiton.

Finally someone who sees it for how it is. I really like JT but his vision imo is a glaring issue and is what is preventing him from being an elite RB already. We saw guys like zeke and saquon pop off year 1 and I believe that physically, JT is better than both of those guys. I think right now he is thinking about what to do at every level of the play instead of saying "oh, if the play unfolds like this, this lane will be open and then I can beat this guy at this angle." I think while Marlon didn't have the size, his vision is pretty much what catapulted him into a top 10 RB status.

[w87r 4,098]

8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

24% under center (broken down 79% run / 21% pass)

76% shotgun (broken down 32% run / 68% pass)

 

 

Thanks,

 

How many of those under centers are GL or short yardage situations?

 

Was a little surprised by that.

 

Seems like a lot more shotgun snaps while watching. Still a lot though.

[1959Colts 1,143]

I noticed, far too many times, we run straight into the stacked box.

Rivers needs to call more audible play adjustments. If they have the box stacked... change the play

[dw49 702]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

That's another issue all in itself.

 

I personally think it is tough to get going down hill, when starting from a standstill. Which Taylor usually is, from the shotgun formation.

 

Would love to see the percentage of plays we run from shotgun.

 

Way to many, but that is where Rivers is most comfortable.

 

 

good point

 

[EastStreet 8,728]

40 minutes ago, bestQBever said:

Finally someone who sees it for how it is. I really like JT but his vision imo is a glaring issue and is what is preventing him from being an elite RB already. We saw guys like zeke and saquon pop off year 1 and I believe that physically, JT is better than both of those guys. I think right now he is thinking about what to do at every level of the play instead of saying "oh, if the play unfolds like this, this lane will be open and then I can beat this guy at this angle." I think while Marlon didn't have the size, his vision is pretty much what catapulted him into a top 10 RB status.

You guys really need to look at where these guys went to college (and what scheme they ran), and where they ended up. Wiscy is heavy power and a unique mix of zone and gap, and Taylor ended up in Indy who runs a lot of simple zone (with very little power/2 back sets). Totally different. OSU runs wide, and a combination of power/gap/tight-zone. Elliot went to the Cowboys who also runs wide, but uses a lot of power and even a lot of 21. 

 

What does that mean? It means Elliot went to a similar scheme and had less to learn, and also a good dose of lead blocker (power) to help. Taylor went to a new system, where he needs to get use to the timing of zone scheme (patience) without the help of a FB, instead of busting/smashing in a power scheme. You'll probably notice Taylor looks pretty decent on outside zone, which is a similar play that Wiscy runs. Wiscy also uses double and triple pulls. I've included a link below if you care to read about Wiscy's O. Doesn't look much like Indy's.... Wiscy plays tonight at 8pm if interested.

 

And it took Mack a while to adjust. Mack had only a 3.8 AVG his first year, which Taylor has already surpassed. And guess what... Taylor has the same AVG as Elliot this year.

 

https://www.thedailystampede.com/2019/8/15/20806114/watching-film-the-refined-brutality-of-the-wisconsin-offense-badgers-usf-football-jonathan-taylor

[EastStreet 8,728]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

Thanks,

 

How many of those under centers are GL or short yardage situations?

 

Was a little surprised by that.

 

Seems like a lot more shotgun snaps while watching. Still a lot though.

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap-rates--shotgun-v-under-center--off-.html

here ya go.

you can adjust yard-to-go, field zone, and more.

[NewColtsFan 7,512]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Whatever it is, it flies in the face of what they have said (Reich and Sirianni), that they wanted to be "unpredictable". 

We’re trying to figure things out without a ton of players we’ve been counting on.

 

- Pittman

- Campbell 

- Mack

- At least one of our tight ends has missed at least one game, and in some games we’ve had two tight ends out.

 

We are down a ton of play making talent.  This enables defenses to focus on Hilton and force the Colts to beat teams with our lesser weapons. 
 

This is not as simple or as black n white as some here would have you believe. 

[coming on strong 981]

1 hour ago, bestQBever said:

Finally someone who sees it for how it is. I really like JT but his vision imo is a glaring issue and is what is preventing him from being an elite RB already. We saw guys like zeke and saquon pop off year 1 and I believe that physically, JT is better than both of those guys. I think right now he is thinking about what to do at every level of the play instead of saying "oh, if the play unfolds like this, this lane will be open and then I can beat this guy at this angle." I think while Marlon didn't have the size, his vision is pretty much what catapulted him into a top 10 RB status.

marlon did not look good his first year though . it was not until last year he started looking amazing . in 2018 he started playing better .   taylor has the same ability as mack , look at his 40 time and skill set its around the same .  Even last year marlon in the first half of games most of the time was not that great and by frank staying with the run it warmed marlon up to go off in the second half . It almost seems like they put taylor in he starts to get warn make a couple of good runs then is pulled and he cools off .

[Painterman 5]

Anyone think we may be sandbagging? Long season, schedule gets harder, shouldn't show too much too soon. 

[Painterman 5]

Another thought, this staff knows we can run and need to figure out the passing game. We have a new QB with no OTAs,  no preseason.

[Bolts2Colts 297]

6 hours ago, DownHillRunner said:

 

Nobody fears Rivers ability to throw the ball downfield until he proves he can do it on a consistent basis.

 

 

Through six games, Rivers leads the league in big-time throws in the first half (per PFF) and is top 5 in deep throw accuracy. 
 

Why do you guys have to blame Rivers for everything. 

[WoolMagnet 3,063]

5 hours ago, Nickster said:

It is my unpopular opinion that Taylor's limitations also hurt the running game.  Teams don't have to worry about Taylor shaking anybody and creating a lot of yardage.  He has good yac with the power in the 2nd level but I would assume he is near the bottom at making people miss.  You can crowd the box when you aren't afraid of a LB losing his shorts and that being a TD.  Taylor will outrun poeple when there is a lane but he absolutely needs the lane right now.  He is very uncreative.  He is going to be a one cut guy, they can be effective, but  they have to have elite vision and anticipation.  JT definitely does not have that right now.

 

 

 

That is why he is most impressive in his few receptions.  He is in open field and can burst.  

 

I  think the biggest difference between the ypc last year to this year is the RB situaiton.

We’ve had our share of “dancing” RBs.  I’ll take Taylor’s style over that every time.  He gets the yards that are there.

  Give him some time, the big runs are coming.  If he gets more consistent blocking on the 2nd level, like from the WRs, his average will increase.

 But the guy rarely loses yards, has the necessary speed, can power thru guys when necessary, and has been very exciting on screens and short passes.  He’s had a good number of big gains that way.

  Losing Pittman and Campbell has affected more of this offense than i think we realize. Pitt is the “Funchess” of last year. Remember how important that chess piece loss was a year ago?  And Campbell was the guy that could extend the field .... quickly.  With those two on the field, i’d love to see some defenses stack the box.

  I also think Ds may stack more because of Rivers immobility than being unable to throw downfield.  Rivers cant extend plays like others, cutting down the time DBs need to cover.  Add in Reich’s love of quick hitting passes and RBs and TEs heavily utilized in passing and it makes sense forDs to favor playing more guys up.

[EastStreet 8,728]

1 minute ago, Bolts2Colts said:

Through six games, Rivers leads the league in big-time throws in the first half (per PFF) and is top 5 in deep throw accuracy. 
 

Why do you guys have to blame Rivers for everything. 

 

Because QB, and QB INTs are the easiest bright shiny object to go after if you're too lazy to compare vs the league, or unable to subjectively critique all aspects and context.

[DontEverGiveUp 899]

8 hours ago, DownHillRunner said:

According to Next Gen Stats 

 

 

"Rookie RB Jonathan Taylor has faced a stacked box on 27.27% of his carries this season. 5th most in the NFL (min 30 attempts)."

 

 

 

Last season, Marlon Mack saw a stacked box on 12.15% of his carries. 39th in the NFL (min 85 carries).

 

 

Nobody fears Rivers ability to throw the ball downfield until he proves he can do it on a consistent basis. The Bengals game was a start and Marcus Johnson will help stretch the field. People should stop pointing fingers at the offensive line and dig more deeper into why the running game hasn't been better than it was last year. Loosing Mack hurt a lot more than people thought as well. The Lions give up a ton of yards on the ground and if the running game is going the time is now!

 

 

A bit of a reach you're making here.  There's no evidence that stat has anything to do with opponents fearing Rivers' ability to throw downfield.  You come off as an irrational Rivers hater to be honest.

 

As others have pointed out, Rivers has been pretty deadly when going deep compared to the rest of the league. You also ignore the fact that this stat is for actual JT running plays - not all plays - as well as the fact that the stat is likely skewed by the fact that in half of our games we ran clock for the majority of the second half.  Of course the D is gonna stack the box in those situations.

 

Do you happen to know which 4 RBs have faced a higher percentage of stacked boxes on their runs?  And if so, do you also claim it's because those QBs are not "feared"?

[DontEverGiveUp 899]

6 hours ago, w87r said:

That's another issue all in itself.

 

I personally think it is tough to get going down hill, when starting from a standstill. Which Taylor usually is, from the shotgun formation.

 

Would love to see the percentage of plays we run from shotgun.

 

Way to many, but that is where Rivers is most comfortable.

The quoted stat says JT runs.

 

The OP took that and somehow twisted it into an indictment on Rivers.  Pretty stupid post honestly.

[Nickster 787]

11 hours ago, EastStreet said:

It's more like teams started figuring out Reich's dink/dunk, and started playing tighter. After game 1, the passing attempts decreased. Rivers is #5 in deep ball accuracy, so it's not like he can't throw it downfield. We've seen him do at times, with a top 10 rate of success. If he's #5, that means he's consistent. That means it's lack of play calling.

 

Also, you can't ignore some of the inconsistent or bad OL performances. Mack, Hicks, Garrett, and Jack were all getting good pressure, especially Garrett. 

 

As far as the running game, Taylor is a rook, is coming from a power/gap scheme, and will need time to get his timing down with our zone scheme. It took Mack almost a year to get it down.

Bingo

Not having guys deep, or having too many early read short pasing, is a function of play calling. 

Good lord he's a rook. Took Mack a year to get his timing down. He's coming from a power/gap and now learning zone. And he's having to do that with play calling that draws the D tighter.... 

 

He's got the same AVG as Elliot and Peterson, and has a better AVG than McCaffery, Mixon, and Jacobs. I get it, he's not setting the world on fire, but he's not terrible either.

Don’t be so emotional Estreet.  We are analyzing here.  I said right now.

 

I don’t understand why JT is getting the Brisett treatment this year.

 

the narrative in the echo chamber here is the line sucks, Reich sucks, rivers sucks, the receivers suck and that’s why we don’t run well.  seems far fetched.  JT will be a useful pro but I think he will have limitations and will need a complimentary back

[Nickster 787]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

You guys really need to look at where these guys went to college (and what scheme they ran), and where they ended up. Wiscy is heavy power and a unique mix of zone and gap, and Taylor ended up in Indy who runs a lot of simple zone (with very little power/2 back sets). Totally different. OSU runs wide, and a combination of power/gap/tight-zone. Elliot went to the Cowboys who also runs wide, but uses a lot of power and even a lot of 21. 

 

What does that mean? It means Elliot went to a similar scheme and had less to learn, and also a good dose of lead blocker (power) to help. Taylor went to a new system, where he needs to get use to the timing of zone scheme (patience) without the help of a FB, instead of busting/smashing in a power scheme. You'll probably notice Taylor looks pretty decent on outside zone, which is a similar play that Wiscy runs. Wiscy also uses double and triple pulls. I've included a link below if you care to read about Wiscy's O. Doesn't look much like Indy's.... Wiscy plays tonight at 8pm if interested.

 

And it took Mack a while to adjust. Mack had only a 3.8 AVG his first year, which Taylor has already surpassed. And guess what... Taylor has the same AVG as Elliot this year.

 

https://www.thedailystampede.com/2019/8/15/20806114/watching-film-the-refined-brutality-of-the-wisconsin-offense-badgers-usf-football-jonathan-taylor

You just basically repeated what I’ve been saying for weeks about Wisco.  Thanks.

 

beng from Wisco is a negative predicter of an effective nfl rusher too.

 

it is also my dispassionate analysis that this years line is quite. Bit better than the one Mack stated behind and that his 3.8 almost certainly would have been better with a better line.

[Nickster 787]

7 hours ago, Painterman said:

Anyone think we may be sandbagging? Long season, schedule gets harder, shouldn't show too much too soon. 

No

[Rally5 495]

14 hours ago, w87r said:

That's another issue all in itself.

 

I personally think it is tough to get going down hill, when starting from a standstill. Which Taylor usually is, from the shotgun formation.

 

Would love to see the percentage of plays we run from shotgun.

 

Way to many, but that is where Rivers is most comfortable.

Exactly right, play action from under center also lends itself to taking the big shots.  We're way too shotgun heavy for a team that wants to lean on the run game and set up play action.  That's part of the reason we're not getting the deep ball as much as we like.  Some people think that we need faster receivers, that's not the issue. It's two fold, it's what Rivers wants (shotgun) so we cater to it because he's the qb and he's so slow afoot by the time he hits his drop in play action the short route windows have already expired, meaning crossers and slants have entered the coverage zone, too slow.  

 

Right now the totality of this offense is driven by one guy, I've said from week one, this team will go as far as Philip can take it.  What offenses fail to realize is zone read is totally pointless if the QB is neve going to keep it.  That makes it easier for the defense to read and react as well.  So not only is it easier for Philip to read a defense but its also easier for the defense to read Philip. 

 

I'll close by saying, I never wanted Rivers here but now that he is, I do like him personally, and he can still be wildly effective when protected.  That scenario will only take us so far.  I have a strong suspicion who our QB may be for 2021 but I'm going to sit on that for a bit...

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3 hours ago, Nickster said:

Don’t be so emotional Estreet.  We are analyzing here.  I said right now.

 

I don’t understand why JT is getting the Brisett treatment this year.

 

the narrative in the echo chamber here is the line sucks, Reich sucks, rivers sucks, the receivers suck and that’s why we don’t run well.  seems far fetched.  JT will be a useful pro but I think he will have limitations and will need a complimentary back

Not being emotional. Just calling out silly, which this is. Why is it silly? And why is it silly "right now"?

 

1) JT is outperforming Mack's first year significantly, and at the same time, being asked to do much more (running and catching).

AVG 3.8 vs 4.1

RunYPG 25.6 vs 61.2

RcvYPG 16.1 vs 27.0

 

2) JT currently has the same AVG as Elliot, and a better AVG than McCaffery, Jacobs, and Mixon all highly regarded.

3) In terms of first years, Taylor is doing better than McCaffery, And is doing better than year 2 of Gurley

4) Our scheme/play calling doesn't help Taylor at all, and actually hurts him. That will change if Reich keeps things open.

5) JT is learning a new system. His vision will come as he learns our zone blocking scheme.

 

JT isn't getting the Brissett treatment this year. Brissett wasn't a rookie last year, didn't have an amazing and proven track record at a big school, etc., JB performed the way he's always performed since college, so folks defending him didn't really know his past, or have realistic expectations of his ceiling. He was still struggling with the exact same things he struggled with in college. 

 

The case is not the same for JT. JT has a higher ceiling, a proven track record at a big school, just needs time to adjust, and is already outperforming his predecessor while doing more at the same time.

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4 hours ago, Nickster said:

You just basically repeated what I’ve been saying for weeks about Wisco.  Thanks.

 

beng from Wisco is a negative predicter of an effective nfl rusher too.

LOL, just like being a Wisconsin QB is a negative predictor...Hello Russell Wilson. 

4 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

it is also my dispassionate analysis that this years line is quite. Bit better than the one Mack stated behind and that his 3.8 almost certainly would have been better with a better line.

Your dispassionate analysis fails to consider we were running an Air Coryell system that year, which is hugely beneficial to RBs. It spreads out the entire D, and does not allow for tight fronts or stacked boxes. It's an incredible benefit to RBs. Indy on the other hand, is a dink and dunk, which actually promotes Ds to play up and congest the box.