2020 - 2021 Indiana Pacers and everything NBA thread

[aReggie7]

 

Some interesting tidbits in this article.

 

I don't like the way the roster is constructed but I think this organization is a complete mess. I didn't mind getting rid of McMillian, and still don't, but the problems with this team go well beyond Xs and Os. Simply firing Bjorkgren isn't going drastically change things either.

 

 

[Myles]

On 5/5/2021 at 11:15 AM, Barry Sears said:

 

That's how it will always be for Indiana and the other smaller market teams.  Every ten years or so a small market team will get lucky with a young super star and do well, until it's time for a new contract and they can't compete with the large market teams.  Plus, Indianapolis isn't as sexy and exciting as New York or LA.

I agree.   Indiana is not a destination for "super stars".   Add to it that the Pacers are usually run pretty well, in that they almost always make the playoffs.   They do not get a lottery pick and have no chance of picking in the top 5.   33 years since they had a top 5 pick.    You really have to tank in order to have a team to compete for a Championship.  Heck, the Knicks are a large market destination and they have had 5 top 10 picks in the past 5 years (2 in the top 5) and they are still fighting for a home court advantage in the first round.  

[Myles]

Well, the Pacers won big last night.

I was torn on it.   Them winning is a good thing but a loss would put them in the draft lottery.    If they lose their next game they also get into the draft lottery.   I think I'm rooting for them to win, but it is a nice consolation prize to be in the lottery.  

 

It seems like the odd are that we would pick #13 in the draft lottery.

I ran it  15 times.  13 was chosen 13 out of 15 times.  #3 and #4 were chosen once as well.   That would be cool.  

 

http://www.tankathon.com/

[Barry Sears]

The game last night was pathetic...didn't get to watch, but basing my opinion on the final score.

 

Season is over and it looks like we'll have the #13 pick in the draft.

 

Lots of decisions to be made in the off-season.  Coaching change?  Re-tool the roster?  Tear the roster down and start a re-build?

 

I know we had injuries, but all teams have injuries.

 

What are your thoughts on the off-season approach?

 

I think we need a different head coach...apparently he's not popular among the players.  His style doesn't match our roster.  Sure, we scored more this year than in years past, but we also gave up a lot more points per game.

 

I like the roster when healthy, but we still need a stud, although studs are expensive and the Pacers tend not to spend big.

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

The game last night was pathetic...didn't get to watch, but basing my opinion on the final score.

 

Season is over and it looks like we'll have the #13 pick in the draft.

 

Lots of decisions to be made in the off-season.  Coaching change?  Re-tool the roster?  Tear the roster down and start a re-build?

 

I know we had injuries, but all teams have injuries.

 

What are your thoughts on the off-season approach?

 

I think we need a different head coach...apparently he's not popular among the players.  His style doesn't match our roster.  Sure, we scored more this year than in years past, but we also gave up a lot more points per game.

 

I like the roster when healthy, but we still need a stud, although studs are expensive and the Pacers tend not to spend big.

 

Yeah, it looks like the 13th spot is where we will be at.   Still a chance of getting into the top 5.   I think getting a top 5 pick is the only thing that can lead Indiana to have a championship caliber team.  I don't think Indianapolis is a destination that would appeal to a "stud" player no matter how much money.   But if Indiana could draft a stud, another may come to Indiana.  

 

I'm not sure what the Pacers can do in the off-season.    Frankly I don't pay much attention to the NBA anymore and have no idea how their players contracts are.   Do they have free agents?  Not sure they can get enough with trades.   They may have to add some pieces and go with it.   I have also heard the coach is not well liked.   Get rid of him now.  

 

http://www.tankathon.com/

[Barry Sears]

14 minutes ago, Myles said:

 

Yeah, it looks like the 13th spot is where we will be at.   Still a chance of getting into the top 5.   I think getting a top 5 pick is the only thing that can lead Indiana to have a championship caliber team.  I don't think Indianapolis is a destination that would appeal to a "stud" player no matter how much money.   But if Indiana could draft a stud, another may come to Indiana.  

 

I'm not sure what the Pacers can do in the off-season.    Frankly I don't pay much attention to the NBA anymore and have no idea how their players contracts are.   Do they have free agents?  Not sure they can get enough with trades.   They may have to add some pieces and go with it.   I have also heard the coach is not well liked.   Get rid of him now.  

 

http://www.tankathon.com/

 

Some information in this article - https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/05/pacers-notes-bjorkgren-mcdermott-turner-draft.html

[2006Coltsbestever]

I mentioned that I did a Top 50 greatest player list of all-time on another thread. I will list my top 4 here for starters. My Mt Rushmore which are 4 players. When I rank players I factor in overall Stats, overall Wins, how Dominant a player was at his position, Clutchness of a player, Championships won, League MVP's won, Finals MVP's won, and Longevity. Eye test is a factor too, the players that played before 1980 I didn't have much eye test. I have seen film, old games on ESPN Classic, and video of guys like Chamberlain, Russell, and Big O, etc..

 

At #4 - I have LeBron James SF. He has been the best player of this era meaning the last decade. He has won 4 Championships and may win a 5th this season, won 4 League MVP's, won 4 Finals MVP's, and his career Stats across the board are 27.0 Points, 7.4 Rebounds, and 7.4 Assits a game. His Longevity is unreal as well, he is right up there with Jabbar regarding Longevity.

 

At #3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar C. He was hands down the best player during the 70's and a top 5 player throughout the 80's. He has won 6 Championships, won 6 League MVP's, and won 2 Finals MVP's. He played 20 seasons in the NBA and never had a bad season, talk about Longevity. He is the NBA's all-time leading scorer with 38,387 points.

 

At #2 - Magic Johnson PG. He redefined the Point Guard position at 6'9 220 pounds. He could control a game by Assisting and getting teammates involved alone. IMO, he is best basketball leader I have ever seen. He could score big too when he had too. As a rookie during the 1980's Finals at Philly Game 6, Magic scored 42 Points and played Center at times in that game. He won Finals MVP as a rookie as the Lakers beat the Sixers 4-2 to capture the Championship. Think about that, he won a championship as a rookie being the best player. Kareem was injured and didn't play in Game 6, Magic just dominated. He won 5 Championships in just 12 full seasons, won 3 League MVP's, and won 3 Finals MVP's. He was extremely clutch too, just ask Boston after Game 4 of the 1987 Finals when he made a last second hook shot to win the game. That changed the whole Finals. Lakers went up 3-1 instead of it being 2-2. Magic currently still holds the record for Assist average per season at 11.2 for players that have at least played 10 or more seasons, yes more than John Stockton. Magic was voted by the media as the best player of the 80's.

 

At #1 Michael Jordan SG. He could single handed take a game over by himself. His career Stats across the board are 30.1 Points, 6.2 Rebounds, and 5.3 Assists. He won 6 Championships (was 6-0 in the Finals), won 5 League MVP's, and 6 Finals MVP's. He also made 9-time NBA All-Defensive First Team.

[Myles]

It is nice to see that the Lakers are done in the playoffs.  

[EastStreet]

On 6/4/2021 at 2:14 PM, Myles said:

It is nice to see that the Lakers are done in the playoffs.  

Very nice. It was almost the only reason I was watching the playoffs lol. 

 

Now I'm just cheering for the other super-teams to lose. 

 

And simply just not a fan of Lebron.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Out of the teams left, Go Jazz! They won tonight 112-109 over the Clippers. I hope they embarrass the Clippers, they are off to a good start up 1-0 in the series. That small market team in Utah is about to show big market LA how it is done. Mitchell outscored Leonard and George by himself tonight  .

[Myles]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Out of the teams left, Go Jazz! They won tonight 112-109 over the Clippers. I hope they embarrass the Clippers, they are off to a good start up 1-0 in the series. That small market team in Utah is about to show big market LA how it is done. Mitchell outscored Leonard and George by himself tonight  .

That would be nice.    I won't watch any of it, but I hope a smaller market team wins.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, Myles said:

That would be nice.    I won't watch any of it, but I hope a smaller market team wins.  

I have watched very little NBA myself but the Jazz have me watching a little. They have players that are easy to root for. Mitchell, Gobert, Bogdanovic (ex Pacer - I liked him here), Mike Conley whose from Indiana - played High School ball here, and those guys rarely bring up politics either which is very refreshing. A nice small market team that is deep and just plays ball.  Go Jazz! 

[MTC]

 

Coach Bjorkgren is out. Pritchard should be next.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, MTC said:

 

Coach Bjorkgren is out. Pritchard should be next.

Mark Jackson should be our next coach IMO. He would be perfect here. He had a good record with the Warriors and is loved here in Indiana. 

[John Waylon]

As long as Simon is still around I don’t think anything will ultimately matter in the end. He does for this team what a closed door does for walking into the next room. 
 

Bamboozled again. 

[Myles]

Pacers are in the draft lottery this time.   

But it looks like the 13th pick will be theirs.   It'd be nice to move up.  

http://www.tankathon.com/

[aReggie7]

Listened to Pritchard's press conference about this. He mentioned getting back to the hard hat mentality. They need to go back to it. We will see if they actually make any personnel moves to get back to it. Most of the roster doesn't fit that, imo. 

 

Pritchard also was asked about the personalities of the team and he even admitted they didn't have accountability. Pretty obvious from watching this team, imo.

 

Will be shocked if it's not an experienced coach though I'd take a hard look at Darvin Ham, Ime Udoka, and Sam Cassell. I'd love for the Pacers to bring back Frank Vogel but I doubt the Lakers let him go.

 

Potential candidates: 

• Mike Brown
• Jeff Van Gundy
• Brian Shaw (I think he got a raw deal in Denver)
• Mark Jackson
• Kenny Atkinson
• Dave Joerger

I don't think they will pay for D'Antoni. Heck, I think he is likely to end up in Portland.

 

Someone I really hope it's not is Terry Stotts. He didn't get it done with Damian Lillard and CJ Mccollum. He also didn't do anything impressive in Atlanta or Milwaukee. Seems like he is as likely of a hire as any though.

[aReggie7]

Listened to J Michael from the Star on JMV this afternoon and he mentioned that he was told Brian Shaw as a dark horse candidate. I like it!

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 5/27/2021 at 8:21 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I mentioned that I did a Top 50 greatest player list of all-time on another thread. I will list my top 4 here for starters. My Mt Rushmore which are 4 players. When I rank players I factor in overall Stats, overall Wins, how Dominant a player was at his position, Clutchness of a player, Championships won, League MVP's won, Finals MVP's won, and Longevity. Eye test is a factor too, the players that played before 1980 I didn't have much eye test. I have seen film, old games on ESPN Classic, and video of guys like Chamberlain, Russell, and Big O, etc..

 

At #4 - I have LeBron James SF. He has been the best player of this era meaning the last decade. He has won 4 Championships and may win a 5th this season, won 4 League MVP's, won 4 Finals MVP's, and his career Stats across the board are 27.0 Points, 7.4 Rebounds, and 7.4 Assits a game. His Longevity is unreal as well, he is right up there with Jabbar regarding Longevity.

 

At #3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar C. He was hands down the best player during the 70's and a top 5 player throughout the 80's. He has won 6 Championships, won 6 League MVP's, and won 2 Finals MVP's. He played 20 seasons in the NBA and never had a bad season, talk about Longevity. He is the NBA's all-time leading scorer with 38,387 points.

 

At #2 - Magic Johnson PG. He redefined the Point Guard position at 6'9 220 pounds. He could control a game by Assisting and getting teammates involved alone. IMO, he is best basketball leader I have ever seen. He could score big too when he had too. As a rookie during the 1980's Finals at Philly Game 6, Magic scored 42 Points and played Center at times in that game. He won Finals MVP as a rookie as the Lakers beat the Sixers 4-2 to capture the Championship. Think about that, he won a championship as a rookie being the best player. Kareem was injured and didn't play in Game 6, Magic just dominated. He won 5 Championships in just 12 full seasons, won 3 League MVP's, and won 3 Finals MVP's. He was extremely clutch too, just ask Boston after Game 4 of the 1987 Finals when he made a last second hook shot to win the game. That changed the whole Finals. Lakers went up 3-1 instead of it being 2-2. Magic currently still holds the record for Assist average per season at 11.2 for players that have at least played 10 or more seasons, yes more than John Stockton. Magic was voted by the media as the best player of the 80's.

 

At #1 Michael Jordan SG. He could single handed take a game over by himself. His career Stats across the board are 30.1 Points, 6.2 Rebounds, and 5.3 Assists. He won 6 Championships (was 6-0 in the Finals), won 5 League MVP's, and 6 Finals MVP's. He also made 9-time NBA All-Defensive First Team.

Deflating post season for LeBron and company, I still have him on my Mt Rushmore at #4, see above. Having said that Kobe and Bird both are probably just as deserving. A big reason why I have LeBron there is because he is hands down this generations greatest player = since roughly the 2012 season. Bird was never the concrete best player in his era because Magic had a better career and was arguably just as great in Bird's best years. Kobe was the best player in the league but only for a short stint - I would say from 2006-2010. During Kobe's 1st 3 championships, it could be argued that Shaq was just as important to those championships and Shaq was definitely the more dominant player. Dominant and better are 2 different things. Without each other they do not 3-peat though from 2000-2002. 

[MTC]

Frank Vogel would be my number one candidate (if he mutually part ways/gets dismissed).

 

Brian Shaw would be a solid choice, I think. Same with Terry Stotts, who Portland let go recently.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Jazz won again and without Mike Conley again. Up 2-0 on the Clippers. This is the only thing keeping me watching the NBA = the Jazz. They are the most disrespected #1 seed in the history of the NBA, maybe it is because their players don't talk politics?? Those guys just play ball = Mitchell, Gobert, Bogdanovic, Conley, etc.. Almost all the talking heads on ESPN and TNT picked the Clippers to win this series. Basketball is won on the court not off of it. The Jazz have become my 2nd favorite team only behind the Pacers for the time being. I hope they sweep the Los Angeles 'bought' Clippers team that the media is in love with just to make the media more annoyed. GO JAZZ! Actually a Jazz/Suns West Finals would bring poor ratings - neither big market teams, just what I want because I will watch with a smile.

 

In Pacers news, out of all the candidates I have looked at so far, I still like Jackson the best.

[aReggie7]

Rick Carlise will not return as the Mavs coach.

 

I'd love to see the Pacers bring Carlise back but have to think he would prefer one of the other openings, such as the Celtics, over the Pacers.

 

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1405618099840339968

[2006Coltsbestever]

Jazz let me down but the Bucks didn't! Bucks took out the Nets in 7. 

 

I just wanted to see the Nets lose so I watched tonight's game. I don't care who wins it all and probably won't watch another game now. 

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

Can I just say the Sky broadcast for the ESPN Games is the best one I have seen. Just hear the sounds of the arena and other like that, no announcers to say something dumb. I wish they always had this

[John Waylon]

The Nate we got rid of is going to the conference finals while the Nate we picked up is already unemployed…
 

Oof. Big oof. 

[chad72]

Anyone like me not happy about how Paul George is suddenly flourishing in LA while not upping his mental game or consistency with the Pacers or Thunder? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

Anyone like me not happy about how Paul George is suddenly flourishing in LA while not upping his mental game or consistency with the Pacers or Thunder? 

In fairness to Paul George he was playing like a SuperStar in 2013 and 2014, we just couldn't get by the Heat in the ECFinals. The Heat had LeBron in his prime + Wade, Bosh, and Allen - kind of hard to beat a team like that for any team in NBA history. Once PG got injured he was never the same here. Also our management is cheap, they refuse to go over the Cap and avoid the Luxury Tax and won't spend any money to bring another SuperStar in here. PG knew he wasn't going to win a Championship after we failed in 2015 so he wanted to bolt. Until our owner wants to spend money we will never win a Championship. PG has had a very good year this season but I don't see them making it past the Conference Finals, just like here. If Leonard doesn't play, it won't happen IMO. I was shocked the Clippers beat the Jazz, that was their Championship. Terrence Mann isn't scoring 39 points again like he did against the Jazz  . That was a fluke series win by them. I didn't even watch Game 1 but I seen the Suns won. At this point I say Go Bucks! Giannis is a humble guy and a great player, I would be fine with them winning it. 

[John Waylon]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

Anyone like me not happy about how Paul George is suddenly flourishing in LA while not upping his mental game or consistency with the Pacers or Thunder? 

I think the truth is this was always the endgame. No amount of money, winning, or legacy could have kept him here. He came into the league wanting to play in LA and even though it isn’t for the Lakers (which I believe was his ultimate goal) he still got what he wanted in the end. Even if we had won a title or more while he was here (*let’s all take a moment to stare awkwardly at that 2013-14 season yet again*) the end result was always going to be him leaving for a bigger market, even if LA was not in the equation. 
 

The vast majority of players that come into the NBA these days don’t have the Miller/Manning mentality to tough it out and turn the small market team into a contender. They want to be in the big market, and team up with the other stars. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 hours ago, John Waylon said:

I think the truth is this was always the endgame. No amount of money, winning, or legacy could have kept him here. He came into the league wanting to play in LA and even though it isn’t for the Lakers (which I believe was his ultimate goal) he still got what he wanted in the end. Even if we had won a title or more while he was here (*let’s all take a moment to stare awkwardly at that 2013-14 season yet again*) the end result was always going to be him leaving for a bigger market, even if LA was not in the equation. 
 

The vast majority of players that come into the NBA these days don’t have the Miller/Manning mentality to tough it out and turn the small market team into a contender. They want to be in the big market, and team up with the other stars. 

That is what I like about Giannis, he has that Miller mentality. He could've easily walked away from the Bucks but he re-signed and now he is on the verge of winning an NBA Championship.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I am not watching the game but seen the score here at work. Suns lead 75-71 through 3 Qtrs. I seriously doubt the Clippers can come back from 0-2 down 3 series in a row. It has never happened in NBA history. I had them beating the Mavs but what they did against the Jazz was miraculous. The Clippers definitely need Leonard this series and it doesn't look like he will play at all from what I have been reading. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

 , I just seen the end of the game. PG clanks 2 FT's and Ayton makes game winning alley-oop at the end at the buzzer. Suns win 104-103, lead 2-0 in best of 7.

[chad72]

13 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 , I just seen the end of the game. PG clanks 2 FT's and Ayton makes game winning alley-oop at the end at the buzzer. Suns win 104-103, lead 2-0 in best of 7.

 

PG clanking 2 free throws made me happy. This was where he could earn it, that he belonged in LA, the place he wanted to be ALL along and then he choked!!! 

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

6 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

PG clanking 2 free throws made me happy. This was where he could earn it, that he belonged in LA, the place he wanted to be ALL along and then he choked!!! 

I am just hoping he continues to choke! But until the Suns are 4-0 in this series I wont feel confident in it

[2006Coltsbestever]

Wow! Hawks, nice job. Young went off for 48. I still think Bucks will take the series but winning Game 1 on the road is huge. That will make it a long series. Regarding Nate McMillan - great job Nate and for the record I never thought he was the problem here. Our problem was not bringing in the right players to help Oladipo and Sabonis out in 2019 after we just took the Cavs 7 games in 2018.

[chad72]

12 hours ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

I am just hoping he continues to choke! But until the Suns are 4-0 in this series I wont feel confident in it

 

Paul George is a very good Robin, not a Batman!!! He needs Kawhi Leonard's help badly.

[Indyfan4life]

#TheReturn

 

Welcome back, Rick. 

[MTC]

14 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

#TheReturn

 

Welcome back, Rick. 

 

Considering the criteria was to hire an experienced head coach, Rick was the best choice. Good move, Pacers!

[aReggie7]

Rick Carlisle was at the top of who I wanted the Pacers to hire. Like any other coach he has his faults but he is proven to be one of the best coaches in the NBA.

 

Pacers opening the checkbook for him:

 

[MTC]

5 minutes ago, ar7 said:

Rick Carlisle was at the top of who I wanted the Pacers to hire. Like any other coach he has his faults but he is proven to be one of the best coaches in the NBA.

 

Pacers opening the checkbook for him:

 

 

It's about time Herb Simon is willing to open the checkbook. 

 

The fact Carlisle got paid that much makes it seem to me that he will have a lot of say in FO decisions (who we trade, draft, etc.).

[aReggie7]

13 minutes ago, MTC said:

 

It's about time Herb Simon is willing to open the checkbook. 

 

The fact Carlisle got paid that much makes it seem to me that he will have a lot of say in FO decisions (who we trade, draft, etc.).

 

Totally agree.

 

Good point about FO decisions. Scott Agness hinted on Twitter that how much power he gets beyond being the HC is worth watching.