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Is it time to move on from Hilton?


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16 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think it’s a toss up on TY right now.  Ballard might also like one of those highly talented WRs in this draft.  

I think you look at a WR in the 2nd or 3rd regardless next year. That doesn't mean the end to TY though. Campbell has kind of messed up the whole plan with his health luck.

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should have moved on in 2019 when I made thread about trading ty

He needs to be option 2 or 3. Having him at the 1 isn’t the move anymore. Maybe move him to the slot for most of his plays

Don't get me wrong. I'm the biggest Hilton fan, however the production is just not there without Luck. He hasn't had a 100 yard game for 16 straight games now following another lackluster performance.

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

that's horrible coverage lol... And it's not a speed route. It's a post corner. But yes, he ran a good route, but again, more technique than speed. 

TY is a Z, and has stayed there. Z however is the position that "moves" around, or motions most often.

He's actually getting less slot share than he was last year (18% in 2019, down to 15%).

I don't see Reich ever being a heavy vert guy here. And I don't think TY has the speed to beat a lot of the DBs today.

 

That is Why I see Harris staying around if he can replicate today’s play against Detroit 

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4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I think you look at a WR in the 2nd or 3rd regardless next year. That doesn't mean the end to TY though. Campbell has kind of messed up the whole plan with his health luck.

Outside of the top 3 guys on the original depth chart the WR room is made up of a lot of lunch pail guys

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7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I think you look at a WR in the 2nd or 3rd regardless next year. That doesn't mean the end to TY though. Campbell has kind of messed up the whole plan with his health luck.

Yes he has.  He looked so good vs the Jags too.  I think he was about to have a breakout season.  Sigh oh well.

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10 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

That is Why I see Harris staying around if he can replicate today’s play against Detroit 

On Harris, he's got to be able to run more routes, If he just does what he did today, his entry is predictable. He's got to be able to run a full menu of quality routes at his size, or he'll just be a gimmick guy, or straight deep threat, which Reich isn't heavy vert.

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I think a lot of you people base you opinions on the stat sheet instead of his impact on the actual game. If you actually watched the game you see he occupied their #1 dB and allowed other people to be open all game.

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34 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

If Reich was more committed to the vertical passing game, and letting Hilton do what he does best, I think you'd see better numbers.  

Another point on this, we've got a bunch of speed guys who can go vert, IF, Reich chose to go that direction. 

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Today he had a toe tsp catch called back woulda been about 15 yards. Shoulda...

 

Another 20+ yarder was called back for the pick play against Pascal. Woulda....

 

He dropped a perfectly executed WR screen that woulda gone for 20 or more depending on the blocking. Coulda.....

 

And then he caught the 11 yard first down catch.....finally.

 

I've said it all year, move him to the slot and let him get clean releases THEN he could at least find soft spots in the zone and/or seam routes.

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10 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Outside of the top 3 guys on the original depth chart the WR room is made up of a lot of lunch pail guys

IDK, not really. Pascal and Johnson were considered lunchbox guys. Maybe they still are. We still have zero idea who Dulin and Fountain are. Dulin is just starting to get his feet wet in STs, and is still learning technique at WR. He was extremely raw out of Malone. Patmon is a wildcard too. Harris is a wild card too, and still very raw.

1 minute ago, Scott Pennock said:

Today he had a toe tsp catch called back woulda been about 15 yards. Shoulda...

 

Another 20+ yarder was called back for the pick play against Pascal. Woulda....

 

He dropped a perfectly executed WR screen that woulda gone for 20 or more depending on the blocking. Coulda.....

 

And then he caught the 11 yard first down catch.....finally.

 

I've said it all year, move him to the slot and let him get clean releases THEN he could at least find soft spots in the zone and/or seam routes.

yupper

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12 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yes he has.  He looked so good vs the Jags too.  I think he was about to have a breakout season.  Sigh oh well.

I'm pretty sure PC was Reich's TY replacement plan. Now we have to scrutinize both of their futures, and possibly use early capital again.

 

If MJ can get over his inconsistencies and drops (not talking about this year), he could be an answer at Z or slot. Looked great today at times, but also had a bad drop. Dulin, Fountain, and Harris are all still raw. All three came from small school setting with limited route trees. Dulin and Harris were both combo guys too.

 

Patmon is intriguing. Obviously has the size for X to play behind Pittman, but also has some deep and gliding skills. He's raw too. 

 

Lots of RAW. Kind of hate taking yet another guy early rounds with similar measurables to PC, MJ, AD, and DF...... Got to hope one can emerge and/or stay healthy.

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I think Father time has caught up to TY, no knock on him personally but to perform on this league, age is a factor in your success in the NFL to go with your skill sets and TY is affected by both on the downward side...Nice guy, but this is a business.

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3 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

I think Father time has caught up to TY, no knock on him personally but to perform on this league, age is a factor in your success in the NFL to go with your skill sets and TY is affected by both on the downward side...Nice guy, but this is a business.

As has been said before it has a lot to do with the departure of AL

     He doesn’t seem to have the same connection with JB and PR

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8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'm pretty sure PC was Reich's TY replacement plan. Now we have to scrutinize both of their futures, and possibly use early capital again.

 

If MJ can get over his inconsistencies and drops (not talking about this year), he could be an answer at Z or slot. Looked great today at times, but also had a bad drop. Dulin, Fountain, and Harris are all still raw. All three came from small school setting with limited route trees. Dulin and Harris were both combo guys too.

 

Patmon is intriguing. Obviously has the size for X to play behind Pittman, but also has some deep and gliding skills. He's raw too. 

 

Lots of RAW. Kind of hate taking yet another guy early rounds with similar measurables to PC, MJ, AD, and DF...... Got to hope one can emerge and/or stay healthy.

I really like Johnson.  I hope he can pull it all together week in and out.
 

Yeah I get the impression this is a red shirt year for Patmon like Eason.  They kept him on the active roster because they know he has talent and if they tried to stash him on PS someone would snatch him up.

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

In California, my calendar says mid-October.    Apparently in Indiana, the calendar says January and the season is over. 
 

Can we please, Please, PLEASE not decide the fate of any player when the season isn’t even halfway over?  
 

Other teams are doubling TYH because there’s no one else yet to fear.  So they’re trying to take him out of the game.   Doesn’t mean TY can’t play.   It means he and Phillip need other weapons.    You know, like Campbell and Pittman?    He may not be as great as he once was,  but he can still help the Colts win games.    
 

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.   :thmup:

 

Know what's funny. I'm in California too haha

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18 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I really like Johnson.  I hope he can pull it all together week in and out.
 

Yeah I get the impression this is a red shirt year for Patmon like Eason.  They kept him on the active roster because they know he has talent and if they tried to stash him on PS someone would snatch him up.

I really wish we could have seen Patmon at X while Pittman was out. They keep bouncing Pascal back and forth between X and slot. Now Burton looks more or less like a slot. Not quite sure what position MJ or DH are running out of lol. Can't wait for the musical chairs to stop. 

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16 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I really wish we could have seen Patmon at X while Pittman was out. They keep bouncing Pascal back and forth between X and slot. Now Burton looks more or less like a slot. Not quite sure what position MJ or DH are running out of lol. Can't wait for the musical chairs to stop. 

I don’t think it will.  Frank loves to spread the ball around.  

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4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t think it will.  Frank loves to spread the ball around.  

I'm fine with spreading it around. I'm talking about some consistency/stability in the WR and TE positions. Guys can't get in a rhythm with all the different guys swapping positions and coming in and out of the lineup. And it's hard for Rivers to create chemistry. Pittman will probably be back, and hope Mo will be back as well vs Detroit. If they both don't get snaps, I'll scratch my head. And assuming they do, that means some of the new guys flex back down. Harris is up on a temp promote. Even with him going back down, that still leaves 7 WRs when Pittman gets back since we signed MJ to the 53 (so someone is likely going back down or waived). 

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'm fine with spreading it around. I'm talking about some consistency/stability in the WR and TE positions. Guys can't get in a rhythm with all the different guys swapping positions and coming in and out of the lineup. And it's hard for Rivers to create chemistry. Pittman will probably be back, and hope Mo will be back as well vs Detroit. If they both don't get snaps, I'll scratch my head. And assuming they do, that means some of the new guys flex back down. Harris is up on a temp promote. Even with him going back down, that still leaves 7 WRs when Pittman gets back since we signed MJ to the 53 (so someone is likely going back down or waived). 

I would say it’s really six WRs as like I said I think Patmon is on a red shirt year they just don’t want to put him on PS because they know they will lose him.  Still that’s a roster spot.  I have a feeling Fountain will be the odd man out.  He’s the one not really playing.  Duhlin gives you ST help which they like.  I really doubt you send Johnson down again after today and it won’t be Pascal, Hilton, or Pittman.  

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1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

I would say it’s really six WRs as like I said I think Patmon is on a red shirt year they just don’t want to put him on PS because they know they will lose him.  Still that’s a roster spot.  I have a feeling Fountain will be the odd man out.  He’s the one not really playing.  Duhlin gives you ST help which they like.  I really doubt you send Johnson down again after today and it won’t be Pascal, Hilton, or Pittman.  

I'm guessing

1. TY - Z

2. Pittman - X

3. Pascal - Slot

4. Johnson (float)

5. Dulin (float/ST)

6 Patmon

 

Harris ends his temp promote

Fountain waived and signed to PS.

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Hilton is clutch.  He got mauled today.  He makes those really difficult 1st down catches, need him to get us to the playoffs.  Without him, would be too tough without Campbell and Pittman Jr.  Hilton has plenty left in the tank.

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7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'm guessing

1. TY - Z

2. Pittman - X

3. Pascal - Slot

4. Johnson (float)

5. Dulin (float/ST)

6 Patmon

 

Harris ends his temp promote

Fountain waived and signed to PS.

Seems pretty logical to me.  

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TY does not require big numbers nor will he get them with Rivers as his QB. His numbers came from a whole different type of QB. When Luck was on, he was special. 

Just because he is not in a position to get those big numbers, it does not diminish his importance to this team. 

 

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10 hours ago, CR91 said:

Don't get me wrong. I'm the biggest Hilton fan, however the production is just not there without Luck. He hasn't had a 100 yard game for 16 straight games now following another lackluster performance. I just don't see the same player anymore. I really don't wanna think he's a product of Luck because I do think he's easily the third best colt WR of all time.

Yea he just doesn’t have any speed left and it’s obvious, speed and quickness was his biggest draws with hands and now that he has lost a step or two due to injuries over the last few years and he doesn’t have the size to constantly beat heavy coverage it’s showing

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10 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Yeah we passed on chances at DK, Brown, Samuel, Hardman. Opting to take Banogu over Brown, Hardman, and Metcalf

That was a head scratcher of a pick at the time and its looking like the head scratchers got it right. 

 

I'll admit, I thought DK was going to be one of those workout warrior busts, and I never cared for Hardeman, but passing on AJ Brown there was unbelievable.  Ben drafted 49, Brown 51, Campbell 59. 

 

Deebo was drafted higher, 36.  We would have had to draft him instead of Rock, 34.

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4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

That was a head scratcher of a pick at the time and its looking like the head scratchers got it right. 

 

I'll admit, I thought DK was going to be one of those workout warrior busts, and I never cared for Hardeman, but passing on AJ Brown there was unbelievable.  Ben drafted 49, Brown 51, Campbell 59. 

 

Deebo was drafted higher, 36.  We would have had to draft him instead of Rock, 34.


Deebo is where he needs to be. Deebo in Indy under Reich isn’t Deebo in SF under Shanahan. He’s the kind of player that a gadget-heavy guy like Shanahan can maximize the production for. Reich...

 

Well...

 

No. He can’t even figure out how to play two of his three highly valued RBs at the same time and create a little advantage for us with it. No way he could scheme up the things that have helped Deebo’s production. 
 

That said, however, I think Aiyuk is going to become a bigger deal to that offense than Deebo over the long-haul. 

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10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Questionable trying to help the Bengals win Tomato Tomato.  Okay that work as well without sound.

 

Hmmm...  go somewhat phonetically?

 

Toe-May-Toe   -   Ta-Mah-Toe. 

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11 hours ago, CR91 said:

Don't get me wrong. I'm the biggest Hilton fan, however the production is just not there without Luck. He hasn't had a 100 yard game for 16 straight games now following another lackluster performance. I just don't see the same player anymore. I really don't wanna think he's a product of Luck because I do think he's easily the third best colt WR of all time.

I said this a while back, I think TY resembles Reggie Wayne in how the end of his career has happened.  Reggie fell off the face of the earth stat's wise suddenly, had a lot of drops that he normally would make but yet was still getting separation off his cuts and his routes, just not anything else.  TY has done the same thing since 2018's second Texans game.  I know he got hurt, but he's not been the same since. The only reason I think Ballard would bring TY back after this season would be the injury concerns with all the other WRs right now.  

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Guy still gets separation. 

Had a great time at the game yesterday and I had eyes on him and he definitely still gets open. He just hasn't developed that 6th sense with anyone but Luck unfortunately. Hopefully it's coming with Rivers.

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6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Seriously?    Where are you?   
 

 

10 mins from San Jose

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I'm not sure it's time to move on but I do believe it's time for him to move into the slot position on a more regular basis. Leave Pitman, Johnson & Pascal on the outside, slide TY inside. When Campbell comes back he and TY can trade around depending on play call. I was excited to see Patmon on the outside opposite Pittman. Hopefully he's working hard and progressing. Disappointing seeing him inactive every week. 

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2 hours ago, csmopar said:

I said this a while back, I think TY resembles Reggie Wayne in how the end of his career has happened.  Reggie fell off the face of the earth stat's wise suddenly, had a lot of drops that he normally would make but yet was still getting separation off his cuts and his routes, just not anything else.  TY has done the same thing since 2018's second Texans game.  I know he got hurt, but he's not been the same since. The only reason I think Ballard would bring TY back after this season would be the injury concerns with all the other WRs right now.  

But with Reggie, when he fell off he was basically done....no longer could compete in the league.  I think TY is a ways from that.  He may not be what he used to be, but he's still a factor and can still play.

 

The end of the contract is coming, and the end of the season is the time where you adjust the role that he will have.  It would be prudent to figure that he will not be reverting back to the old TY going into next season.

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Damn!    You’re roughly 6-7 hours away.
 

You’re Nor Cal and I’m So Cal.    Well, darn!    

 

Oh I love south cal. Went to San Diego couple weeks ago.

19 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

I used to live in Fremont, about 20 minutes from San Jose (3 hours if you include traffic....lol, joking).

 

No kidding. I use to commute to San Carlos. Ugh horrible

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My take on the TY situation is to offer an extension 2-3 yr.  He is making 14.5 mil now.  Honestly going forward he's not worth that much.  I would not low ball him either.   Based on what I saw yesterday he is as good as A.J. Green. We have to get some more playmakers either through the draft or free agency.  On the topic of receivers I think Pittman will be good. Campbell will never live up to the hype. Injured just way too often. Pascal and Johnson are looking pretty good right now.  Big drop off when you look at the tight ends.  Doyle is regressing.  Burton is adequate. Cox is starting to come around. What to do?

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