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Rivers haters eat crow


danlhart87
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38 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

To some degree. My biggest concern is the D line. It is built on free agency and a trade. They are aging and I am not comfortable at all in the players they have drafted to take their place.

Ballard at some point is going to have to be better drafting edge and dl

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55 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

To some degree. My biggest concern is the D line. It is built on free agency and a trade. They are aging and I am not comfortable at all in the players they have drafted to take their place.

As you know, Ballard’s top priorities are the OL and the DL.  Ballard always wants 10 DL on the 53 and 8 of them are active on the Game Day roster.  So not only is Ballard not done with the DL, it’s my judgement that he’s NEVER done.   It’s a never ending process. 
 

I think in this coming April’s draft you’ll see DE as a top three priority.  The Colts will take one in the first three rounds.  We might even take a DE as high as the first round.  
 

I think we will address the DL roughly 4 out of every 5 years.   That means using a top 3 pick in those years.   We didn’t in the 2020 draft.  We’re due in ‘21. 
 

And don’t be surprised if we invest in the DL in free agency if he finds someone he likes at a price he likes. 

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

As you know, Ballard’s top priorities are the OL and the DL.  Ballard always wants 10 DL on the 53 and 8 of them are active on the Game Day roster.  So not only is Ballard not done with the DL, it’s my judgement that he’s NEVER done.   It’s a never ending process. 
 

I think in this coming April’s draft you’ll see DE as a top three priority.  The Colts will take one in the first three rounds.  We might even take a DE as high as the first round.  
 

I think we will address the DL roughly 4 out of every 5 years.   That means using a top 3 pick in those years.   We didn’t in the 2020 draft.  We’re due in ‘21. 

Lets hope that one pans out. Wonder if they bring both Autry and Houston back too.

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1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m expecting both back.   Whether we do or not may depend on how much they get offered by other teams.   I hope we can re-sign them before free agency even starts. 

Kinda hoping we extend Smith Nelson and Leonard before their value gets too high 

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I don’t remember alot of haters.

I know i was concerned about his age and primarily mobility... enough necessary to protect yourself and occasionally buy a second or two to step up or out of pocket to make a play.  I didnt doubt him, but i remember an “older” Rypien and Collins and they were SLOW.

  Yes I was concerned about interceptions, but you kinda expect some with his gunslinger style.

  I must say, so far, he has exceeded the baseline i had hoped for.  Exceeded surprisingly well in recent weeks.

  I dont know if Phil is more comfortable,playing “smarter” if Reich and Siriani figured out how to use him, or if Rivers is just feeling it 

Seriously, the Intellect, arm and accuracy Rivers is showing right now is more than enough QB play to beat any of the other 31.  
 

1. Play smart, physical, and aggressively (both sides of ball)

2.Relenlessly Bully with the run to set up passing opportunities not force them.

3.On D, ”keep on doing” while continuing to grow And dialing up a little more physicality and pressure on all levels of the D.

SET THE TONE.

 

Sounds like a winning formula for a championship.

 

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29 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

The Rivers argument doesn't even start to be over until he gets to the playoffs and actually does something there.

The AFC has a lot of good teams, if we go 11-5 and just make the playoffs that still is a good season. Rivers has put up good numbers too and has quality wins over the Titans and GB. Would it be disappointing to lose the 1st game of the playoffs, yes. Having said that the AFC is loaded. I see people saying is Rivers good enough to lead us to the SB, many don't think so. Heck I can say that about Lamar, Allen, Tannehill, Mayfield, etc etc.. lmao . Lamar went 14-2 last year and got creamed by the Titans at home last year in the playoffs.

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My point is that the debate was framed over Rivers as a potential over-the-top piece.  It makes a difference to the discussion whether or not we actually get over the top.  I don't think we have to win the Superbowl necessarily, but in order to shut up the skeptics I think we have to go deep, at least AFCCG.  One and done won't cut it for some.

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1 minute ago, Imgrandojji said:

My point is that the debate was framed over Rivers as a potential over-the-top piece.  It makes a difference to the discussion whether or not we actually get over the top.  I don't think we have to win the Superbowl necessarily, but in order to shut up the skeptics I think we have to go deep, at least AFCCG.  One and done won't cut it for some.

Oh I won't be happy at all if we lose the 1st game of the playoffs but the AFC has so many teams that are even that I am not sure what will happen. Making the playoffs is 1st priority. An 11-5 season by itself is good though. If we go 12-4 which is possible and I pick us to do so, we may win the division. 

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19 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

My point is that the debate was framed over Rivers as a potential over-the-top piece.  It makes a difference to the discussion whether or not we actually get over the top.  I don't think we have to win the Superbowl necessarily, but in order to shut up the skeptics I think we have to go deep, at least AFCCG.  One and done won't cut it for some.

the goal was to upgrade the qb situation, it wasnt a super bowl or bust move. 

 

they are not going to tank for a QB, they made it clear they would rather win 10-11 games than be picking at the top of the draft.  some people wont be happy no matter what phil does unless its a super bowl

 

cant please everyone 

 

 

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1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

Kinda hoping we extend Smith Nelson and Leonard before their value gets too high 

We’ll...   honestly, I think it’s too late regarding their value.   But, either way, we can extend Leonard and Smith this off-season.   Not sure if technically we can do that with Nelson this winter, or if we have to wait till the start of the 21 season in September.  
 

@Superman may know the soonest point we can extend Quenton.   Winter of ‘21?   September of ‘21, or some point in ‘22?   Not sure? 

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Just now, EastStreet said:

Luck is 4-4 in the playoffs. Rivers is 5-6. 

 

Luck's best playoff year was vs the Bengals, then over a Brock Osweiler led Broncos team...

 

His other playoff wins were over the Texans (2x) and a Smith led KC.... 

 

Not the definition of playoff success. 

He beat Peyton in 2014 actually and a healthy Denver D in Von Miller. 

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29 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

My point is that the debate was framed over Rivers as a potential over-the-top piece.  It makes a difference to the discussion whether or not we actually get over the top.  I don't think we have to win the Superbowl necessarily, but in order to shut up the skeptics I think we have to go deep, at least AFCCG.  One and done won't cut it for some.

What debate?    Who did the framing?    Who thought Rivers was the piece to take us to the Super Bowl?    All the talk was about PR taking us back to the playoffs.   Who is the “some” that one and done won’t be hood enough for.    
 

All I care about is Ballard and Reich.   They likely won’t be happy with that, but at least we will be relevant again.  That’s the first step toward a better future. 

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2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

To some degree. My biggest concern is the D line. It is built on free agency and a trade. They are aging and I am not comfortable at all in the players they have drafted to take their place.

i disagree , buckner is young grover is young and drafted by ballard , and turray is starting to get back to form the last couple games . turray looked great against houston without watson being mobile he could of had 3 sacks .     3 of the colts starting 4 are 25 to 26 and really good . muhammad has actually looked a lot better too lately getting a sack and nice pressures took a huge step forward watching film and he is 25 also .      those 4 can be starters and fine   .     ben has been activated also lately so he is practicing better too .   colts can draft another edge rusher in the first 3 rounds to replace houston and resign autry .

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

As you know, Ballard’s top priorities are the OL and the DL.  Ballard always wants 10 DL on the 53 and 8 of them are active on the Game Day roster.  So not only is Ballard not done with the DL, it’s my judgement that he’s NEVER done.   It’s a never ending process. 
 

I think in this coming April’s draft you’ll see DE as a top three priority.  The Colts will take one in the first three rounds.  We might even take a DE as high as the first round.  
 

I think we will address the DL roughly 4 out of every 5 years.   That means using a top 3 pick in those years.   We didn’t in the 2020 draft.  We’re due in ‘21. 
 

And don’t be surprised if we invest in the DL in free agency if he finds someone he likes at a price he likes. 

Agreed. I know what Ballard emohasizes. It is time for some of those assets to show themselves. Turay, Lewis and Banagou

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

What debate?    Who did the framing?    Who thought Rivers was the piece to take us to the Super Bowl?    All the talk was about PR taking us back to the playoffs.   Who is the “some” that one and done won’t be hood enough for.    
 

All I care about is Ballard and Reich.   They likely won’t be happy with that, but at least we will be relevant again.  That’s the first step toward a better future. 

I know, I don't recall one person in here picking us to win the SB before the season. Hell I had us going 10-6 and just making the playoffs and I am always optimistic lol.

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5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Luck is 4-4 in the playoffs. Rivers is 5-6. 

 

Luck's best playoff year was vs the Bengals, then over a Brock Osweiler led Broncos team...

 

His other playoff wins were over the Texans (2x) and a Smith led KC.... 

 

Not the definition of playoff success. 

Yeah...   except Luck’s playoff record is based on an 8-season career.   Rivers career is twice as long.    Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. 

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1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yeah...   except Luck’s playoff record is based on an 8-season career.   Rivers career is twice as long.    Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. 

As I brought up earlier too, Luck beat a loaded Denver team where we were 8 point underdogs and we still won to advance to the Title Game. Nobody thought we had a chance to win that. Peyton even put them up 7-0 early. Von Miller was a beast as well.

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

As you know, Ballard’s top priorities are the OL and the DL.  Ballard always wants 10 DL on the 53 and 8 of them are active on the Game Day roster.  So not only is Ballard not done with the DL, it’s my judgement that he’s NEVER done.   It’s a never ending process. 
 

I think in this coming April’s draft you’ll see DE as a top three priority.  The Colts will take one in the first three rounds.  We might even take a DE as high as the first round.  
 

I think we will address the DL roughly 4 out of every 5 years.   That means using a top 3 pick in those years.   We didn’t in the 2020 draft.  We’re due in ‘21. 
 

And don’t be surprised if we invest in the DL in free agency if he finds someone he likes at a price he likes. 

I agree, Ballard values the trenches. Thst being said. He has 3 2nd round picks invested in Turay, Lewis and Banagou. Not much return on those assets

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3 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I agree, Ballard values the trenches. Thst being said. He has 3 2nd round picks invested in Turay, Lewis and Banagou. Not much return on those assets

Understood.   But.... 

 

Turay has been injured.

 

Lewis has shown more this season which Ballard predicted.  And Lewis should be even better next year. 

 

Benagu needed the off-season and pre-season that Covid wiped out.  He’ll be on the spot next year the way Lewis has been this year.   I’m optimistic.    I appreciate not everyone will agree with me. 

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47 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

i disagree , buckner is young grover is young and drafted by ballard , and turray is starting to get back to form the last couple games . turray looked great against houston without watson being mobile he could of had 3 sacks .     3 of the colts starting 4 are 25 to 26 and really good . muhammad has actually looked a lot better too lately getting a sack and nice pressures took a huge step forward watching film and he is 25 also .      those 4 can be starters and fine   .     ben has been activated also lately so he is practicing better too .   colts can draft another edge rusher in the first 3 rounds to replace houston and resign autry .

 

I agree with this. I love our depth on the line and would consider it majorly complete with a top pass rushers on it. My hope is the Colts sign Rivers again, draft a legit DE, and in the second round draft a G because I see the Colts sliding Nelson over to OT. 

 

Im sure Ballard has the next off seasons on paper. 

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24 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Understood.   But.... 

 

Turay has been injured.

 

Lewis has shown more this season which Ballard predicted.  And Lewis should be even better next year. 

 

Benagu needed the off-season and pre-season that Covid wiped out.  He’ll be on the spot next year the way Lewis has been this year.   I’m optimistic.    I appreciate not everyone will agree with me. 

Turay was injured in College and that trend continues.  Lewis still cannot become a full time starter. Banagou. Well that is not looking good but we shall c

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54 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yeah...   except Luck’s playoff record is based on an 8-season career.   Rivers career is twice as long.    Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. 

is 4-4 that much better than 5-6?

If we want to look at individual core stats, not that much different and a case can be made for either.

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9 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Turay was injured in College and that trend continues.  Lewis still cannot become a full time starter. Banagou. Well that is not looking good but we shall c

Everyone gets injured.   It’s football.  
 

Turay wasn’t injured enough that there was a pattern to be worried about.   And he’s flashed enough to show why we took him at pick 52. 
 

Lewis....   again, Ballard wants contributions from the 8 DL who play.   Only 4 start.   Ballard used the 64th puck for someone who he hopes can contribute meaningful snaps.  And Ballard has said DL often take 2-3 years to figure out the NFL game.  And Lewis has improved. 
 

Benagu was the most raw of our DL.   Needed the most individual coaching.   That all got blown up with Covid wiping out the off-season. 
 

Again, stocking the DL never ends for Ballard. 

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5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

is 4-4 that much better than 5-6?

If we want to look at individual core stats, not that much different and a case can be made for either.

Luck had 1 playoff win that I would consider elite that was at Denver in 2014 but he had 1. Rivers beat us in 2008 so he has had 1, that punter they had was God that night lmao . In 2007 it was Billy Volek lmao  that beat us. Rivers has an opportunity this year to prove himself this year bigtime. He has a healthy TY, healthy JT, great O.Line, and a Defense that makes key stops. Our SP Teams are also very good if not great.

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4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

is 4-4 that much better than 5-6?

If we want to look at individual core stats, not that much different and a case can be made for either.

4-4 with the Grigson Colts for 8 years is nothing to apologize for.   And 5-6 for a career that’s twice as long as Luck’s isn’t as good.    People can agree to disagree over how much better one is than the other...   but the key stat is a 16 year career vs 8 years. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

4-4 with the Grigson Colts for 8 years is nothing to apologize for.   And 5-6 for a career that’s twice as long as Luck’s isn’t as good.    People can agree to disagree over how much better one is than the other...   but the key stat is a 16 year career vs 8 years. 

 

 

4-4 over an 8 year career is actually respectable. Take a QB like Romo for example who I considered good (not very good or great but good), he only won 2 playoff games his whole career. 

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23 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

4-4 with the Grigson Colts for 8 years is nothing to apologize for.   And 5-6 for a career that’s twice as long as Luck’s isn’t as good.    People can agree to disagree over how much better one is than the other...   but the key stat is a 16 year career vs 8 years. 

Both had challenges in terms of GMs and supporting cast. One snowboarded, and one never missed a game.

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4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Everyone gets injured.   It’s football.  
 

Turay wasn’t injured enough that there was a pattern to be worried about.   And he’s flashed enough to show why we took him at pick 52. 
 

Lewis....   again, Ballard wants contributions from the 8 DL who play.   Only 4 start.   Ballard used the 64th puck for someone who he hopes can contribute meaningful snaps.  And Ballard has said DL often take 2-3 years to figure out the NFL game.  And Lewis has improved. 
 

Benagu was the most raw of our DL.   Needed the most individual coaching.   That all got blown up with Covid wiping out the off-season. 
 

Again, stocking the DL never ends for Ballard. 

So based on where they were picked, you have been happy with their performances? Turay: often injured and maybe 3rd down pass rusher. Lewis: rotational player. Banagou: more scratches than starts. Not a starter out of the 3 of them

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40 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I'm willing to give Turay and Lewis more time but Banagu is clearly a bust

Wasn't high on the Banogu pick at all, and yes, he's not made any impact at all..... But, I'll give him to the end of his rook contract (unless he's cut early) to prove me wrong. Lewis is just now starting to make an impact, and was a late bloomer. Not that he's an all star or anything, but he was slow to develop. 

 

Just FYI, Banogu came from TCU which is a school known for lack of technique, with mostly reliance on pure athleticism. He's jumped around (to TCU as a Junior from a Juco IIRC, and is from Nigeria). ND has a ton of luck from raw, late blooming prospects from Nigeria. I only hated the pick because I thought it was several rounds too early. 

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

So based on where they were picked, you have been happy with their performances? Turay: often injured and maybe 3rd down pass rusher. Lewis: rotational player. Banagou: more scratches than starts. Not a starter out of the 3 of them

No.   Not at all.   
 

My hope is for much more.    My argument is to not give up on them yet.   It’s not that we should be happy with what we’ve got.   Not at all. 
 

Ballard has often said DL need time to figure things out in the NFL.   I’m willing to do just that.    As long as Ballard is willing, then so am I.   As fans go, I’m very patient. 
 

If one, or more of these guys eventually don’t work out, Ballard is always in the market for more.  

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