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Sheldon Day activated from IR and Marcus Johnson signed to the 53


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4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Mixed feelings about MJ.

Why? All he does is make plays when it comes his way.

 

I get you might want to see more Fountain or Patmon, but Johnson does his thing whenever given the opportunity.

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We need Pittman on third down. He has made some great catches on third down. We brought up another WR which I thought was interesting. Maybe Fountain will sit and we will try someone else. Johnson deserves to stay because all he ever does is make plays.

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6 minutes ago, w87r said:

Why? All he does is make plays when it comes his way.

 

I get you might want to see more Fountain or Patmon, but Johnson does his thing whenever given the opportunity.

I like MJ. He's been very inconsistent over the years however going back to his college days at TX. His catch % last year was pretty lousy, and while some were clearly on JB, some were clearly him too. And yes, I'd like to see more Fountain, Dulin, and Patmon. We already know what MJ brings. 

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3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

We need Pittman on third down. He has made some great catches on third down. We brought up another WR which I thought was interesting. Maybe Fountain will sit and we will try someone else. Johnson deserves to stay because all he ever does is make plays.

Fountain is more or less sitting already. Very low snaps/game. 

MJ only has 4 catches, so it's not like he's been tearing things up.

 

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Fountain is more or less sitting already. Very low snaps/game. 

MJ only has 4 catches, so it's not like he's been tearing things up.

 

Give Johnson a little time. He missed most of camp then was cut. Hopefully he can get more consistent with more time with rivers. He is fast and is good at tracking the ball.

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50 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Give Johnson a little time. He missed most of camp then was cut. Hopefully he can get more consistent with more time with rivers. He is fast and is good at tracking the ball.

He was very inconsistent last year. Underperformed in college. 

 

Not saying he can't improve, or be good. I do cut him some slack due to JB last year. 

 

Just not a fan of over rotating at WR, and would like to see more snaps from others. Reich has been horrible at WR development. It's feast or famine. 

 

I'd rather see MJ than Burton though lol

 

Cain was elevated by Pitt to the 53 this week too lol. 

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53 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I like MJ. He's been very inconsistent over the years however going back to his college days at TX. His catch % last year was pretty lousy, and while some were clearly on JB, some were clearly him too. And yes, I'd like to see more Fountain, Dulin, and Patmon. We already know what MJ brings. 

 

Johnson caught:

6/8 passes from Luck

17/33 from Brissett/Hoyer last year for 51%

4/4 from Rivers this year

 

All on short notice with midseason roster moves.

 

 

Career 60.4%(including rookie numbers in Philly). Obviously small sample size, but in the same neighborhood with some decent WRs. 

 

Mean while you have guys like the following who have career catch % like this:

 

TY 58.4

Julio Jones 63.8

D Adams 62.7

 

 

I don't know what else you want from him? On limited opportunities, he makes the plays given to him, when he has NFL starter quality QB throwing him the ball.

 

I get you want to see the other guys get an opportunity. That reasoning I can agree with, but to harp on his catch % with Brissett throwing him the ball isn't the best critique, IMO. We know on quite a few of those targets there was probably no chance to catch(would love to see catchable ball stat on those numbers). Add those numbers in and his catch % would be on an elite level.

College? Who cares players grow and improve. 

 

 I am happy to have him as an option with all the injuries we have this year. I have no mixed feelings about his presence.

 

Definition of great depth player, we are very fortunate to be able to run the guy out there as a 6th,7th,8th WR option.

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16 minutes ago, w87r said:

 

Johnson caught:

6/8 passes from Luck

17/33 from Brissett/Hoyer last year for 51%

4/4 from Rivers this year

 

All on short notice with midseason roster moves.

 

 

Career 60.4%(including rookie numbers in Philly). Obviously small sample size, but in the same neighborhood with some decent WRs. 

 

Mean while you have guys like the following who have career catch % like this:

 

TY 58.4

Julio Jones 63.8

D Adams 62.7

 

 

I don't know what else you want from him? On limited opportunities, he makes the plays given to him, when he has NFL starter quality QB throwing him the ball.

 

I get you want to see the other guys get an opportunity. That reasoning I can agree with, but to harp on his catch % with Brissett throwing him the ball isn't the best critique, IMO. We know on quite a few of those targets there was probably no chance to catch(would love to see catchable ball stat on those numbers). Add those numbers in and his catch % would be on an elite level.

College? Who cares players grow and improve. 

 

 I am happy to have him as an option with all the injuries we have this year. I have no mixed feelings about his presence.

 

Definition of great depth player, we are very fortunate to be able to run the guy out there as a 6th,7th,8th WR option.

51% is lousy (last year) Comparative to TY who was 66% last year (catching the same quality throws), was doubled a lot, and was forced to a lot.

 

Johnson's drop rate was 12% vs Hilton's 4% (last year), which is just bad. He had one drop as well in 2018 in very limited targets. I agree his small sample size this year is good, but it is, very small.

 

Overall, like I said, very inconsistent, and I'd prefer to see others.

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I like MJ. He’s already made a few tough grabs this year. Far better than fan favorite Fountain, who’s been invisible. I suspect MJ stays on the 53 and Fountain gets kicked back to the PS. I’d like both to succeed, but not holding my breath on Fountain. 

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6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

51% is lousy (last year) Comparative to TY who was 66% last year (catching the same quality throws), was doubled a lot, and was forced to a lot.

 

Johnson's drop rate was 12% vs Hilton's 4% (last year), which is just bad. He had one drop as well in 2018 in very limited targets. I agree his small sample size this year is good, but it is, very small.

 

Overall, like I said, very inconsistent, and I'd prefer to see others.

Hilton's career number is 58% not much better than the one "lousy season" for Johnson.?

 

Hilton also has had the luxury of having a lot of reps with the qbs. 

 

Johnson just comes off the streets(FA/PS) and makes plays. Essentially no chemistry, just go play.  Very limited reps.

 

Either way I don't care to go back and forth about it. Just don't see why anyone would have mixed feeling about being able to have a capable wr step in when we have so many injuries and #1 guy(Hilton)  not playing very good ball.

 

It's definitely a good thing.

 

Go :1colts:

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8 hours ago, csmopar said:

Hmmm elevated a G that’s interesting

Green who is normally active on game days is out. You can dress an extra player as long as 8 of them are OL. We got the starting 5 plus Clark and Pinter. With Green out, bringing up an OL man allows us to dress another player. Also, this should mean good knews with Castonzo playing, that we didnt bring up a T instead

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Oh you were talking about Marcus Johnson lol. I thought you were taking about the tweet Pittman is back to running on turf. Lol I need to read better.

I originally thought the same thing. It took me some time to realize it was Johnson

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20 minutes ago, w87r said:

Hilton's career number is 58% not much better than the one "lousy season" for Johnson.?

 

Hilton also has had the luxury of having a lot of reps with the qbs. 

 

Johnson just comes off the streets(FA/PS) and makes plays. Essentially no chemistry, just go play.  Very limited reps.

 

Either way I don't care to go back and forth about it. Just don't see why anyone would have mixed feeling about being able to have a capable wr step in when we have so many injuries and #1 guy(Hilton)  not playing very good ball.

 

It's definitely a good thing.

 

Go :1colts:

You brought in the pass quality issue from JB, so I used numbers from the same year. So with the same pass quality, you still have the large delta. TY at the same time was getting doubled. You can't sweep away the drop issues. He had the same problems in college, and has always had consistency issues. People crucified Ebron for having roughly the same drop % that Johnson had.

 

I agree he's looked good in very limited reps the last 2 games. My point is his college years were inconsistent and actually regressive. His sample size in 2018 is too tiny. His time in 2019 was mediocre at best, and bad from a drop perspective. Can he maintain in 2020? IDK, maybe. But if his history is an indicator, I wouldn't bet much.

 

Like I said, I like him. I've just got realistic expectations, and see it potentially stunting the growth of some of our younger guys.

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44 minutes ago, Hoose said:

I like MJ. He’s already made a few tough grabs this year. Far better than fan favorite Fountain, who’s been invisible. I suspect MJ stays on the 53 and Fountain gets kicked back to the PS. I’d like both to succeed, but not holding my breath on Fountain. 

FWIW. Fountain hasn't really gotten many snaps at all, and when he is in, seems he's been running a lot of clear outs/rubs (meaning he's not even considered a target). For context, Johnson has more snaps in 2 games, than Fountain does this entire season. Both Dulin and Fountain are 2 for 3, while Johnson is 4 for 4. Not a huge difference, and very small sample.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

You brought in the pass quality issue from JB

In 2017 with JB, Hilton had a 52.3 catch %.

 

By the time Johnson even took his first snap with Brissett, Hilton had already played 20+ games with JB. Ties into that chemistry thing.

 

He should have better numbers.

 

The funny thing about all this is we are comparing the colts #7/#8 WRs numbers to the #1 WR.

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39 minutes ago, w87r said:

In 2017 with JB, Hilton had a 52.3 catch %.

 

By the time Johnson even took his first snap with Brissett, Hilton had already played 20+ games with JB. Ties into that chemistry thing.

 

He should have better numbers.

 

The funny thing about all this is we are comparing the colts #7/#8 WRs numbers to the #1 WR.

As you know, very different O schemes from 2017 to 2019. Chud in 2017 was Air Coryell and was a known force feeder to #1WR and 9 route. Translation, TY going deep and far less high% shots. Guessing TY had double the targets of the next WR. His decrease those days are understandable, and expected.

 

So really the 20+ game chemistry is really not 20+. Whole new scheme in 2019, and JB was out of the picture for a full year in 2018. 

 

As far a catch % goes.. let's just agree low 50s is bad regardless of it being TY or anyone else. If you look at the top 60 WRs, only a handful are sub 60, let alone around 50.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/receiving.htm

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10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

FWIW. Fountain hasn't really gotten many snaps at all, and when he is in, seems he's been running a lot of clear outs/rubs (meaning he's not even considered a target). For context, Johnson has more snaps in 2 games, than Fountain does this entire season. Both Dulin and Fountain are 2 for 3, while Johnson is 4 for 4. Not a huge difference, and very small sample.

Probably a fair critique. I’d like to see more of Patmon out of the trio of he, Dulin and Fountain. Hope they give him a shot soon, but I assume he’d have to become a core special teamer for that to happen.  

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