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The Colts seem to hire HCs with a mild, if not meek, demeanor - Dungy, Caldwell, Pagano and now Reich. Could it be that the team tends to take on the demeanor of the coaching? Maybe we need a coach with more 'fire-in-the-belly', or at least more demanding of performance given potential talent level?

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We could hire a coach like Cowher who spits in every ones face when he yells. He won one SB in 15 years as a head coach and choked more than Dungy but don't let facts get in the way. Some love that approach I guess. haha . Reich is a good coach, let this play out. 

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Don’t think it’s a coaching problem, it’s not having a franchise QB problem. The one year Reich had good QB play we made the playoffs and won a playoff game. We’re just missing the most important piece. 

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48 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

The Colts seem to hire HCs with a mild, if not meek, demeanor - Dungy, Caldwell, Pagano and now Reich. Could it be that the team tends to take on the demeanor of the coaching? Maybe we need a coach with more 'fire-in-the-belly', or at least more demanding of performance given potential talent level?

Nope. And Dungy could get fiery from reports, especially in the locker room. But he didn’t need too. He had the Sheriff, Peyton freaking Manning who had more than enough fire. 
 

Looks at what Reich and Ballard have had to deal with since taking the reigns. Not even the vaulted hooded one could do any better. 

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1 hour ago, boo2202 said:

Don’t think it’s a coaching problem, it’s not having a franchise QB problem. The one year Reich had good QB play we made the playoffs and won a playoff game. We’re just missing the most important piece. 

 

Not to be argumentative but I dont know that that's true, just look at the Titans. After last night its hard to say they're not the best team in the AFC and they're doing it without a franchise QB. Do you honestly think if the Colts signed Tannehill last year the Colts would be getting the same production from him? I honestly dont believe that anymore. That's all coaching IMO and, for me, the luster is quickly wearing off of Frank 

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For me, Reich earned a lifetime contract in his first year when he went for the win over the tie in overtime against the Texans, which failed and we lost...20 years of elite QB play watching us pooch punt on 4th and 1 from the opponent's 39, pulling starters once we had a bye and coming out flat in the playoffs, basically coaching scared got a little old to me...I know Doug Pederson's star isn't high right now, but he had the best quote I've ever heard about football..."Playing not to lose is a good way to go 8-8"

 

I think we're an exceptionally well run franchise, which actually kind of hurts us, because we don't have a QB...I know it's easy to name big time QB's that were drafted late, but it's just as easy to name a thousand QB's drafted in that range that were never heard from...We basically have to hit the lottery

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1 hour ago, CoachLite said:

The Colts seem to hire HCs with a mild, if not meek, demeanor - Dungy, Caldwell, Pagano and now Reich. Could it be that the team tends to take on the demeanor of the coaching? Maybe we need a coach with more 'fire-in-the-belly', or at least more demanding of performance given potential talent level?

Really interesting observation.  I assume it’s a fit with ownership.  Bob irsay had tougher minded coaches I think.  Now it’s more player friendly.  Not sure which I’d prefer if it was me hiring 

 

edit:  I mean tough on players not tough themselves.  Dungy, pagano, and reich are very tough minded guys but don’t seem hard on players 

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The HC duties and responsibilities have not been a problem. The offensive play calling has been. I am not sure if Rick Siranni should completely take over the offensive play calling from Reich with periodic input on the field to help with strategy, and if that would open up our offense.

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I still have the same confidence in Reich and Ballard as ever have honestly.  There are some things I question. . . but honestly I would say that would be true in any case.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

Not to be argumentative but I dont know that that's true, just look at the Titans. After last night its hard to say they're not the best team in the AFC and they're doing it without a franchise QB. Do you honestly think if the Colts signed Tannehill last year the Colts would be getting the same production from him? I honestly dont believe that anymore. That's all coaching IMO and, for me, the luster is quickly wearing off of Frank 

 

I don't know...Tannehill sure looks like a franchise QB in the middle of his prime. He's been playing at an All-Pro level since he took over for Mariota last year. It won't last 6+ years...but it does seem like they have that box checked for a few years. 

 

TEN (smartly) got Tannehill away from Gase and were able to buy low. I hope Ballard takes a cue...and gets the NYJ to trade him Darnold. The difference between Darnold and Tannehill is that Darnold is about a decade younger.

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TN squeaked by their first 3 games vs bad opponents. Tannehill had a good game, Henry did not.

Buffalo shot themselves in the foot several times. Not sure they are all that good either.

 

Wouldn't put too much into that game. Two good, not great teams. 

 

We're tied for the last playoff spot right now.

Our next two opponents are a combined 2-6-1... and have a bye in between them.

We should be 5-2 and healthier coming home to play the Ravens.

 

Way too much overreaction for this early.

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, CoachLite said:

The Colts seem to hire HCs with a mild, if not meek, demeanor - Dungy, Caldwell, Pagano and now Reich. Could it be that the team tends to take on the demeanor of the coaching? Maybe we need a coach with more 'fire-in-the-belly', or at least more demanding of performance given potential talent level?

 

Could maybe say that about the fans too? Most every time a talented,high profile player is available the fans say "I'll pass" lol.

 

But seriously,  our coaches, not just the head coaches don't seem to impress with their intelligence or resume. 

Our current coaches(hc,oc,dc) are first timers in their current positions. Pagano another example and his assistants.  How Pagano got a HC gig I'll never know. And and the list of OC's we've had. Since Polian, Dungy & Tom Moore how happy have you been with our hires, playcalling? Arians had success before he came here tho, but most of us wasn't really pleased with his play calling thinking  it would get Luck killed.

 

Maybe it's a Indy thing, small market , mid west etc.. that doesn't attract Big Time hires?

 

There's a growing number of fans here that are becoming less than thrilled with Reich and are thinking of moving on from him in a season or two. I'm not one of those, because who will be the guy irsay  hires to replace him? For years we waited and prayed for Pagano to be gone. When it finally happened,  Reich is who replaced him. 

 

Our Golden era was Manning, Polian, Dungy, Tom Moore, and our OL coach Mudd. And our Star Wars offense with Freeney,  Mathis, and Bob Sanders on D.

Winningest team of the Decade!

Those were the days my friends. :D

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1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Could maybe say that about the fans too? Most every time a talented,high profile player is available the fans say "I'll pass" lol.

 

But seriously,  our coaches, not just the head coaches don't seem to impress with their intelligence or resume. 

Our current coaches(hc,oc,dc) are first timers in their current positions. Pagano another example and his assistants.  How Pagano got a HC gig I'll never know. And and the list of OC's we've had. Since Polian, Dungy & Tom Moore how happy have you been with our hires, playcalling? Arians had success before he came here tho, but most of us wasn't really pleased with his play calling thinking  it would get Luck killed.

 

Maybe it's a Indy thing, small market , mid west etc.. that doesn't attract Big Time hires?

 

There's a growing number of fans here that are becoming less than thrilled with Reich and are thinking of moving on from him in a season or two. I'm not one of those, because who will be the guy irsay  hires to replace him? For years we waited and prayed for Pagano to be gone. When it finally happened,  Reich is who replaced him. 

 

Our Golden era was Manning, Polian, Dungy, Tom Moore, and our OL coach Mudd. And our Star Wars offense with Freeney,  Mathis, and Bob Sanders on D.

Winningest team of the Decade!

Those were the days my friends. :D

With one super bowl win. 

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16 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

Not to be argumentative but I dont know that that's true, just look at the Titans. After last night its hard to say they're not the best team in the AFC and they're doing it without a franchise QB. Do you honestly think if the Colts signed Tannehill last year the Colts would be getting the same production from him? I honestly dont believe that anymore. That's all coaching IMO and, for me, the luster is quickly wearing off of Frank 

Well Tannehill is the Dolphins franchise QB. 

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Look at Jon Gruden, Pete Carroll, even Andy Reid (of all people). They express their intensity in different ways, but they each communicate their intensity in clear and compelling ways. This shows in their play calling, and in the confidence they exude in their players. Sometimes, it shows in playing to win, not playing not to lose.

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Ita funny you bring that up. I was listening to the herd a couple years back and he said teams take on the attitude of the town they play in. 

 

And its no secret that Indy isn't considered "tough" by much of any standard. 

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On 10/14/2020 at 6:44 AM, boo2202 said:

Don’t think it’s a coaching problem, it’s not having a franchise QB problem. The one year Reich had good QB play we made the playoffs and won a playoff game. We’re just missing the most important piece. 

That's pretty much all there is to it.  We are in bad shape at QB unless Eason turns out to be any good.  I think we need to play him if the team losses quite a few games in the next 6 weeks.  If we play Brissett, then I am pretty much completly soured on the entire organization.  

 

This org was expecting to have elite QB play.  Andrew screwed the team by quitting right before the season started, and Rivers, whom I wanted, looks pretty washed up.  We'd be much better off tanking if this thing goes south.  The org is in trouble really.  High priced contracts will come due and if we don't have a relatively cheap young QB by then, things will get bad for a while.

 

Luck's sudden retirement will effect the org negatively for the forseeable future.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, BigO said:

We should have hired Vrabel instead of Reich. He is doing a really good job with the Titans!

 

Yeah but they really sucked until they switched QBs.  They became good when they got an above average QB and quit waiting around on Mariotta.

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On 10/14/2020 at 7:28 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We could hire a coach like Cowher who spits in every ones face when he yells. He won one SB in 15 years as a head coach and choked more than Dungy but don't let facts get in the way. Some love that approach I guess. haha . Reich is a good coach, let this play out. 

I don’t doubt that Reich is a good coach but from what the OP has stated in his post, it has enough validity to ask and address here without being taken as a Reich “hater”. 
 

The problem I see in the types of head coaches we’ve hired is the accountability aspect. We don’t get the feeling our HC is holding his coordinators as accountable for doing their jobs as they need to. We had the making of a nasty oline 2 years ago and then fired the line coach, for what? That’s just an example, nobody knows why he got the boot and his players were successful too so... Now we have a defense that comes out and plays like crud game one in the dreaded drop back and let a JAG QB pick us apart without adjusting and we lost. Changed things up next three games and then reverted back to game plan 1 in the first half without adjusting until halftime. We can’t seem to unlock potential in several of our players like Banagu or Lewis or or Banner, Q Wilson, Hooker, Basham, Hairston or evening Okereke to a degree. We kept Clark while another team is developing Banner and Basham. Who is being held accountable for not getting the talent pulled from these guys. Past years we’ve seen guy like Henry Anderson go to the jets and have a monster year and I believe Banner was developed into a starter or fringe starter for his new team. Just seems odd that we get a draft and then his guys don’t pan out like they were projected to and in some cases, not even close (Lewis/Hooker). I know you can’t hit on them all for sure but who is evaluating the 4,5,6,7 round guys because those picks have had more success than the higher picks. 
 

on offense, what game plans and in game adjustments and creativity has made anyone excited that we can adapt and overcome? What exotic play designs have we been shown that says man, our OC has Uber talent in getting these young players open? Sirianni was supposed to have much better creativity than we are being shown during his career so far here and Reich is supposed to be a guru yet we don’t see play designs that make you go oh wow!! It would be nice to get some Andy Reid like play designs drawn up. I just feel like we are a plain vanilla group on both sides with enough talent to take advantage of other teams but we haven’t yet. Unless MAC was injured last Sunday and couldn’t play, it seems criminal that we didn’t get targeted game plays to get him active. 0-1 targets from a QB who absolutely loved his TE’s in SD. WTH is that about? The constant lack of flow with using his backs. 
 

I’d definitely understand why people are frustrated with lackluster games and Reich is the HC so he gets this blame. It’s the same symptoms that plagued Wood chopping Pagano, lots of speak with little real action behind it. PM had the ability to win a SB and go to another SB game with a dead arm and yes he is smart too but still, his arm was dead. Now we have Rivers here and a OL that’s supposed to be top 3-5 yet we see some meh games. Rivers arm is certainly better than what PM had in his last two seasons and Rivers is equally smart in football terms to succeed in this teams make up. There is just something that is not meshed well enough here and our coaches have been the constant. I think it’s fair to question what techniques they’ve applied to the level of success we’ve seen. Idk what the answer is but will this team remain the same in coaching if they miss the playoffs this year?

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3 hours ago, Nickster said:

That's pretty much all there is to it.  We are in bad shape at QB unless Eason turns out to be any good.  I think we need to play him if the team losses quite a few games in the next 6 weeks.  If we play Brissett, then I am pretty much completly soured on the entire organization.  

 

This org was expecting to have elite QB play.  Andrew screwed the team by quitting right before the season started, and Rivers, whom I wanted, looks pretty washed up.  We'd be much better off tanking if this thing goes south.  The org is in trouble really.  High priced contracts will come due and if we don't have a relatively cheap young QB by then, things will get bad for a while.

 

Luck's sudden retirement will effect the org negatively for the forseeable future.

 

 

Yep. The only difference is I get the feeling Reich is protecting Rivers a bit due to all the injuries to the offensive skill position players and is being conservative, more than he needs to be, IMO. 

 

Even when Luck was coming back from shoulder surgery, his YPA was way lower and a lot of short passing done by Luck's standards and his past standards. Things did not get opened up till later and it kind of kick started during the Texans game after we started 0-4 and then 1-5. In other words, outside the going for 4th down dictated by analytics that has falsely instilled in some of us a sense of an aggressive coach, the play calling has been conservative for most of Reich's tenure.

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4 hours ago, Jdubu said:

I don’t doubt that Reich is a good coach but from what the OP has stated in his post, it has enough validity to ask and address here without being taken as a Reich “hater”. 
 

The problem I see in the types of head coaches we’ve hired is the accountability aspect. We don’t get the feeling our HC is holding his coordinators as accountable for doing their jobs as they need to. We had the making of a nasty oline 2 years ago and then fired the line coach, for what? That’s just an example, nobody knows why he got the boot and his players were successful too so... Now we have a defense that comes out and plays like crud game one in the dreaded drop back and let a JAG QB pick us apart without adjusting and we lost. Changed things up next three games and then reverted back to game plan 1 in the first half without adjusting until halftime. We can’t seem to unlock potential in several of our players like Banagu or Lewis or or Banner, Q Wilson, Hooker, Basham, Hairston or evening Okereke to a degree. We kept Clark while another team is developing Banner and Basham. Who is being held accountable for not getting the talent pulled from these guys. Past years we’ve seen guy like Henry Anderson go to the jets and have a monster year and I believe Banner was developed into a starter or fringe starter for his new team. Just seems odd that we get a draft and then his guys don’t pan out like they were projected to and in some cases, not even close (Lewis/Hooker). I know you can’t hit on them all for sure but who is evaluating the 4,5,6,7 round guys because those picks have had more success than the higher picks. 
 

on offense, what game plans and in game adjustments and creativity has made anyone excited that we can adapt and overcome? What exotic play designs have we been shown that says man, our OC has Uber talent in getting these young players open? Sirianni was supposed to have much better creativity than we are being shown during his career so far here and Reich is supposed to be a guru yet we don’t see play designs that make you go oh wow!! It would be nice to get some Andy Reid like play designs drawn up. I just feel like we are a plain vanilla group on both sides with enough talent to take advantage of other teams but we haven’t yet. Unless MAC was injured last Sunday and couldn’t play, it seems criminal that we didn’t get targeted game plays to get him active. 0-1 targets from a QB who absolutely loved his TE’s in SD. WTH is that about? The constant lack of flow with using his backs. 
 

I’d definitely understand why people are frustrated with lackluster games and Reich is the HC so he gets this blame. It’s the same symptoms that plagued Wood chopping Pagano, lots of speak with little real action behind it. PM had the ability to win a SB and go to another SB game with a dead arm and yes he is smart too but still, his arm was dead. Now we have Rivers here and a OL that’s supposed to be top 3-5 yet we see some meh games. Rivers arm is certainly better than what PM had in his last two seasons and Rivers is equally smart in football terms to succeed in this teams make up. There is just something that is not meshed well enough here and our coaches have been the constant. I think it’s fair to question what techniques they’ve applied to the level of success we’ve seen. Idk what the answer is but will this team remain the same in coaching if they miss the playoffs this year?

I'm certainly not a Reich hater. But I've been in management enough to know that clear and concise communication of expectations is important to performance. People tend to rise to meet expectations. The rewards they get for achievement of high expectations can be worth more than money.

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On 10/14/2020 at 6:18 AM, CoachLite said:

The Colts seem to hire HCs with a mild, if not meek, demeanor - Dungy, Caldwell, Pagano and now Reich. Could it be that the team tends to take on the demeanor of the coaching? Maybe we need a coach with more 'fire-in-the-belly', or at least more demanding of performance given potential talent level?

 

Nah, let's kill this thought with sticks and fire. 

When Pagano was brought in, the exact thought was he'd bring that fire-in-your-belly Baltimore style. We know how that went. It's not about who can yell loudest. There're different styles of communication. Bill Belichick is the greatest coach ever, he's not exactly a yeller.

Andy Reid is possibly the greatest offensive mind in the game now....he's no yeller.

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3 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Nah, let's kill this thought with sticks and fire. 

When Pagano was brought in, the exact thought was he'd bring that fire-in-your-belly Baltimore style. We know how that went. It's not about who can yell loudest. There're different styles of communication. Bill Belichick is the greatest coach ever, he's not exactly a yeller.

Andy Reid is possibly the greatest offensive mind in the game now....he's no yeller.

I agree with this. Most who are in teaching, management and leadership roles will say something similar. In education, we have a saying that you praise in public and criticize in private. And often actions are louder than words. 

 

The best coaches follow the same mindset. They won't yell and scream at a player if they make a mistake, they will simply reduce their reps or take them out of the game. I haven't watched too many Titans games, but from what I see Vrabel is similar in that he's not exactly a screamer, or just an outright jerk to his players. 

 

Those who walk into organizations with the "my way or the highway" approach also don't seem to last long. Professional athletes don't buy into that. We're seeing this happening with coaches such as the Lion's Patricia. 

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Intensity and high expectation does not require yelling and screaming, threats or tantrums. I wonder why some people assume that it does? The main feature of coaching - whether in business, sports ... or anything - is helping people achieve more than they ever could by themselves, including things they never thought they could achieve.

 

There are many ways this can be accomplished. One size doesn't fit all.

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On 10/14/2020 at 8:08 AM, csmopar said:

Nope. And Dungy could get fiery from reports, especially in the locker room. But he didn’t need too. He had the Sheriff, Peyton freaking Manning who had more than enough fire. 
 

Looks at what Reich and Ballard have had to deal with since taking the reigns. Not even the vaulted hooded one could do any better. 


Didnt Peyton get ripped by the liquored up kicker for not being fiery enough?

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4 hours ago, CoachLite said:

Intensity and high expectation does not require yelling and screaming, threats or tantrums. I wonder why some people assume that it does? The main feature of coaching - whether in business, sports ... or anything - is helping people achieve more than they ever could by themselves, including things they never thought they could achieve.

 

There are many ways this can be accomplished. One size doesn't fit all.

Anyone who needs a boot up their * to get motivated, assumes that is way for everyone. As soon as I make a mistake at anything, I know immediately, and I am already mentally working to fix my mistake. A coach yelling down my neck about the mistake I am quite aware of, would only kill my drive. Nothing that they can say or do, would ever surpass the criticism I am already laying on myself. 

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7 hours ago, CoachLite said:

Intensity and high expectation does not require yelling and screaming, threats or tantrums. I wonder why some people assume that it does? The main feature of coaching - whether in business, sports ... or anything - is helping people achieve more than they ever could by themselves, including things they never thought they could achieve.

 

There are many ways this can be accomplished. One size doesn't fit all.

 

I've never seen anything from Reich or indeed any of the other coaches you mentioned (including Pagano) that suggests they were not intense or that they had low expectations. Meek (mild) demeanors don't correlate with standards or whatever. Your point doesn't add up.

 

The Colts under Dungy executed better than pretty much any other team out there. They were simple in concept but flawless in execution. Penalties were unacceptable. Does that not scream high expectation?

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49 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

I've never seen anything from Reich or indeed any of the other coaches you mentioned (including Pagano) that suggests they were not intense or that they had low expectations. Meek (mild) demeanors don't correlate with standards or whatever. Your point doesn't add up.

 

The Colts under Dungy executed better than pretty much any other team out there. They were simple in concept but flawless in execution. Penalties were unacceptable. Does that not scream high expectation?

I refer you to Tarik Glenn, a very good tackle for the Colts who spent much of his life off-side. I think you are a victim of selective memory.

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18 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

I refer you to Tarik Glenn, a very good tackle for the Colts who spent much of his life off-side. I think you are a victim of selective memory.

 

Penalties were unacceptable, it doesn't mean they didn't happen. A coach can be all kinds of intense and still be rubbish. Adam Gase by many indications is a super intense fellow...how's that worked for him?

 

If perfection is what you think this fiery belly coach brings. Let the forum know when you find such a man, I imagine we'll all be in heaven singing hallelujahs then though.

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8 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:


Didnt Peyton get ripped by the liquored up kicker for not being fiery enough?

Not that I recall but I do recall several heated moments between Peyton and WRs and the OL

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On 10/14/2020 at 7:44 AM, boo2202 said:

Don’t think it’s a coaching problem, it’s not having a franchise QB problem. The one year Reich had good QB play we made the playoffs and won a playoff game. We’re just missing the most important piece. 

Agreed! If Luck hadn't quit on this team we'd easily be 5-0 right now and talking about who we would and wouldn't want to play in the playoffs.

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On 10/14/2020 at 9:06 AM, Mitch Connors said:

 

Not to be argumentative but I dont know that that's true, just look at the Titans. After last night its hard to say they're not the best team in the AFC and they're doing it without a franchise QB. Do you honestly think if the Colts signed Tannehill last year the Colts would be getting the same production from him? I honestly dont believe that anymore. That's all coaching IMO and, for me, the luster is quickly wearing off of Frank 

Tannehill is actually a very good QB.  He just had a slow start due to being on the Dolphins and had a long string of season ending injuries.  Tannehill threw 3 TDs and ran for another TD against a Bills top 5 defense.  Also Tannehill can move and does not force the ball to WRs that aren't open.  Colts would easily be undefeated this season with Tannehill as our QB.

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On 10/14/2020 at 7:44 AM, boo2202 said:

Don’t think it’s a coaching problem, it’s not having a franchise QB problem. The one year Reich had good QB play we made the playoffs and won a playoff game. We’re just missing the most important piece. 

Reich was only 10-6 that year... Pagano did that when he had a healthy Luck.

In 2018, we had some real dud games. IIRC, we lost to Cinci at home, to NYJ, and to Jax like 0-6. 

Way too many head scratching play calls / game plans / personnel decisions over the last couple years not to be at minimum concerned. 

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On 10/14/2020 at 9:06 AM, Mitch Connors said:

 

Not to be argumentative but I dont know that that's true, just look at the Titans. After last night its hard to say they're not the best team in the AFC and they're doing it without a franchise QB. Do you honestly think if the Colts signed Tannehill last year the Colts would be getting the same production from him? I honestly dont believe that anymore. That's all coaching IMO and, for me, the luster is quickly wearing off of Frank 

I agree. Right now Vrabel might be the best HC in the league.

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