Honest Question.

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

Okay, so everyone says the sky is falling and that Rivers is horrible and we need to put in JB or Eason or trade for a Darnold or Ryan or Haskins. So my honest question is do we really see Reich and Ballard benching Rivers at all this season. I was listening to Kevin Bowen and he put the percent chance of a benching AT SOME POINT THIS SEASON, at 20%. So simple question, honestly, do we bench Rivers at some point this season. 

[lollygagger8]

As much as I don't think he's that great, that's not gonna happen. He's the best option we have unfortunately. 

 

At least they are loyal? I mean, look how long they kept Vinatieri.

[csmopar]

Nope 

[Mitch Connors]

1 hour ago, lollygagger8 said:

As much as I don't think he's that great, that's not gonna happen. He's the best option we have unfortunately. 

 

At least they are loyal? I mean, look how long they kept Vinatieri.

 

Thinking the exact same thing. Everyone on the planet knew there was a better option than Vinny last year but they stuck with him anyway. Theres no better option for Rivers.

[Dingus McGirt]

Reich seems heavily on the stubborn side and only recognizes mistakes when it's too late to recover. 

 

Another coach, in another state, would have already cut bait and gone to Eason. 

 

There's a military technique of reinforcing success and cutting failure off, while exploiting weakness in the opponent.  The Colts never heard of such organizational flexibility and agility.

 

Ah well, we're on to 2021.

 

[UKColt13]

Yeah he didn’t play great but we weren’t blown out. He had 2 bad picks and he was under pressure by probably the leagues best pass rusher that was being blocked by a career backup tackle.

 

I don’t think losing to a very competent 3-1 team, on the road, by 9 points, without your starting LT, without your best defensive player and missing your no.2&3 receivers qualifies as the sky falling in.

 

You get nowhere by benching your QB every time he makes a couple of mistakes. We did have our moments of playing pretty well, the Browns played better and were healthier, and won a good game. I’m okay with that.

[Barry Sears]

No, and there are 25 million reasons why.

[MFT5]

no, unfortunately ... Eason should be starting bc him showing his ceiling & floor is better than the quality rivers is putting out there 

[Mr.Debonair]

Can’t bench him at this point. I just don’t get why he is here. Don’t think I truly ever will

[Bolts2Colts]

19 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

Yeah he didn’t play great but we weren’t blown out. He had 2 bad picks and he was under pressure by probably the leagues best pass rusher that was being blocked by a career backup tackle.

 

I don’t think losing to a very competent 3-1 team, on the road, by 9 points, without your starting LT, without your best defensive player and missing your no.2&3 receivers qualifies as the sky falling in.

 

You get nowhere by benching your QB every time he makes a couple of mistakes. We did have our moments of playing pretty well, the Browns played better and were healthier, and won a good game. I’m okay with that.

Rivers almost never gets blown out. He can keep it close and exciting. Unfortunately it always makes him the scapegoat when they lose close games. As Zak Keefer said “We lost by 9 points and Rivers cost us 9 therefore it’s all his fault!”  Never mind the mistakes by the rest of the team.  Hines fair catching on 4 is just one example. Why isn’t he getting reamed by media? 

[Bolts2Colts]

7 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Can’t bench him at this point. I just don’t get why he is here. Don’t think I truly ever will

Luck’s retirement put the Colts in a really bad predicament. 

Everyone agrees Buckner was a great use of first round pick. So no way to get top prospect in draft. Of available options, Rivers made most sense at the time.  We all thought a top 5 O-line and top-5 running game would improve his play, but currently the offensive line and running game are performing at a below average level.  If they could somehow be top 5, Rivers would likely be killing it. 
 

I’m not sure how much, if any, the presence of Rivers has contributed to decline in other parts of offense, but some people theorize that he has hurt the running game. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It won’t happen until we are eliminated from the playoffs. Rivers would have to totally fall off the tales. We might get eliminated pretty quick with how good the 7 teams ahead of us are. We aren’t winning the division. Titans have to easy of a schedule.

[Mr.Debonair]

6 minutes ago, Bolts2Colts said:

Rivers almost never gets blown out. He can keep it close and exciting. Unfortunately it always makes him the scapegoat when they lose close games. As Zak Keefer said “We lost by 9 points and Rivers cost us 9 therefore it’s all his fault!”  Never mind the mistakes by the rest of the team.  Hines fair catching on 4 is just one example. Why isn’t he getting reamed by media? 

Plenty have acknowledged that the defense most certainly shares the blame for the loss in this game. They took too long to adjust and stop Baker and that offense. Then failed to get a crucial stop when it mattered. However, they got two turnovers, multiple stops keeping the game close. The safety was two points and I believe the defense stopped them following that safety(have to fact check). So while bad it wasn’t back breaking like the pick six and the other INT Rivers three. Also, Rivers is the head cog and a unit that isn’t putting up points and looking very pedestrian. He has more INTs than TDs

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

No team hardly ever plays a perfect game. It gets old that we have to play perfect to win.  That puts way to much stress on s team. So far rivers has proven he can’t win us a game unless we are way ahead.

[Bolts2Colts]

5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It won’t happen until we are eliminated from the playoffs. Rivers would have to totally fall off the tales. We might get eliminated pretty quick with how good the 7 teams ahead of us are. We aren’t winning the division. Titans have to easy of a schedule.

There are 10 good teams in AFC—Chiefs, Raiders, Steelers, Ravens, Browns, Bills, Patriots, Titans and (gasp) the Dolphins. Plus Colts of course.  Titans looked unbeatable last night. Will be challenging to make the playoffs

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Schedule. Baltimore, at titans, packers, titans That doesn’t even include LV and the Steelers lol. It’s not going to be s pretty second half of the season unless things get fixed quick. We needed to win all 7 of are games to start the season. Lions can score too so that won’t be a cupcake. Getting Pittman back will help on third down. He had a second surgery to close up his leg so he seems to be healing well.

 

Not making the playoffs again Ballard is going to have to make some tough decision. Biggest one is QB. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The one good thing about not making the playoffs is our draft pick will be around the same as last year. So we will be in a position to move up for a QB if they don’t believe in Eason.

[Colt.45]

46 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Reich seems heavily on the stubborn side and only recognizes mistakes when it's too late to recover. 

 

Another coach, in another state, would have already cut bait and gone to Eason. 

 

There's a military technique of reinforcing success and cutting failure off, while exploiting weakness in the opponent.  The Colts never heard of such organizational flexibility and agility.

 

Ah well, we're on to 2021.

 

 

Reich was extremely stubborn with Vinatieri. The guy was clearly washed or struggling with injury, that was a mistake not bringing someone in earlier. 

 

This case is different though. One they chose Rivers as their option then his success was couched on certain things. Everyone assumed a great running game would be there, the best O-line in the league, a superb young opportunistic defense was hoped for, wideouts would bounce back. He'd take the chances that Brissett didn't. Now tell me, how much of those pluses have been present?

 

On the flip side, Rivers was known for risky play occasionally, it was known that he might struggle in shootouts and force things. It was known that arm strength was an issue. It was known that if the team was leaning too heavily on him then it'd be bad. Is any of that a surprise?

 

Honestly if we look at how things are, Rivers has been EXACTLY what we expected, go read the articles written about how this could go. He is better than Brissett. No question.

 

You mention another coach bringing in Eason. Please show me which coach has done anything remotely close to that. The Eason you crave is a fiction of your imagination not based on anything factual. When Mahomes was backing up Smith, there were constant leaks about how SUPERB he was in practice, there was talk about how the Chiefs definitely needed to move from Smith because this kid they drafted had abilities that Smith couldn't dream of. Even with all that, they only moved on from Smith AFTER the season.

 

Rivers isn't getting benched, and that is 100% the right decision. Bringing Rivers in was questionable, he wasn't my choice but deed is done, he's the Colts most-ready QB. 

 

Onto the other things you brought up

[chickenMan]

Rivers has had two bad games, and three solid games (and honestly you could write off the first bad game for a litany of reasons). We’re paying him $25mil for a reason, he’s still significantly better than JB in every area but mobility and turnovers. The only QB on the roster that may, at least at some point, be at River’s level of play is Eason, and he’s a raw rookie who will need time to develop.

 

However, I don’t think Rivers returns next year; I think we either target Prescott in FA, or draft another “project” QB, if there is such a thing, and let him and Eason duke it out.

[Bolts2Colts]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Schedule. Baltimore, at titans, packers, titans That doesn’t even include LV and the Steelers lol. It’s not going to be s pretty second half of the season unless things get fixed quick. Getting Pittman back will help on third down. He had a second surgery to close up his leg so he seems to be healing well.

 

Not making the playoffs again Ballard is going to have to make some tough decision. Biggest one is QB. 

We must beat Bengals, Lions, Jaguars and sweep Texans to get 8 wins. Then somehow win at least one of those games you mentioned above. In playoffs anything can happen with a great defense. 49ers prime example. 
 

We need Pittman back badly. He really helps Rivers on third down. Good to hear he seems to be healing well. 
 

Odds are high that this is Rivers last season regardless of playoffs. Lack of mobility a much bigger issue than I thought it would be. He’s getting tons of pressure and can’t escape it. 

[Valpo2004]

56 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

Yeah he didn’t play great but we weren’t blown out. He had 2 bad picks and he was under pressure by probably the leagues best pass rusher that was being blocked by a career backup tackle.

 

I don’t think losing to a very competent 3-1 team, on the road, by 9 points, without your starting LT, without your best defensive player and missing your no.2&3 receivers qualifies as the sky falling in.

 

You get nowhere by benching your QB every time he makes a couple of mistakes. We did have our moments of playing pretty well, the Browns played better and were healthier, and won a good game. I’m okay with that.

 

This . . . there are several psychological factors at work here.

 

1. Colts fans are spoiled when it comes to QB's.  We went from Peyton Manning to Andrew Luck.  Most of them seem to naturally expect the starter to be able to throw for 400 yards and win the game by himself.  

 

2. People have a hard time seeing the Browns as a good team because they have been terrible for so long.  

 

3. People are way way way too emotional after a loss.  

[chickenMan]

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Reich was extremely stubborn with Vinatieri. The guy was clearly washed or struggling with injury, that was a mistake not bringing someone in earlier. 

 

This case is different though. One they chose Rivers as their option then his success was couched on certain things. Everyone assumed a great running game would be there, the best O-line in the league, a superb young opportunistic defense was hoped for, wideouts would bounce back. He'd take the chances that Brissett didn't. Now tell me, how much of those pluses have been present?

 

On the flip side, Rivers was known for risky play occasionally, it was known that he might struggle in shootouts and force things. It was known that arm strength was an issue. It was known that if the team was leaning too heavily on him then it'd be bad. Is any of that a surprise?

 

Honestly if we look at how things are, Rivers has been EXACTLY what we expected, go read the articles written about how this could go. He is better than Brissett. No question.

 

You mention another coach bringing in Eason. Please show me which coach has done anything remotely close to that. The Eason you crave is a fiction of your imagination not based on anything factual. When Mahomes was backing up Smith, there were constant leaks about how SUPERB he was in practice, there was talk about how the Chiefs definitely needed to move from Smith because this kid they drafted had abilities that Smith couldn't dream of. Even with all that, they only moved on from Smith AFTER the season.

 

Rivers isn't getting benched, and that is 100% the right decision. Bringing Rivers in was questionable, he wasn't my choice but deed is done, he's the Colts most-ready QB. 

 

Onto the other things you brought up

Yeah the only situation I can think of is Mahomes, and like you said he was far surpassing Alex Smith in practices. Mahomes is truly special, like Peyton or Brees level special. I don’t personally think Eason is that good, but who knows

1 minute ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

This . . . there are several psychological factors at work here.

 

1. Colts fans are spoiled when it comes to QB's.  We went from Peyton Manning to Andrew Luck.  Most of them seem to naturally expect the starter to be able to throw for 400 yards and win the game by himself.  

 

2. People have a hard time seeing the Browns as a good team because they have been terrible for so long.  

 

3. People are way way way too emotional after a loss.  

This ^^^

 

Also, no shame in losing to the Browns this year. They may not be SB-level yet, but they are very good

[Valpo2004]

For the record I don't think River's gets benched because I think he leads us to a playoff seed.  I don't think we get very far in the playoffs but I think we make the playoffs.  

[Colt.45]

8 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Schedule. Baltimore, at titans, packers, titans That doesn’t even include LV and the Steelers lol. It’s not going to be s pretty second half of the season unless things get fixed quick. We needed to win all 7 of are games to start the season. Lions can score too so that won’t be a cupcake. Getting Pittman back will help on third down. He had a second surgery to close up his leg so he seems to be healing well.

 

Not making the playoffs again Ballard is going to have to make some tough decision. Biggest one is QB. 

 

Spoke about this on another thread. The QB position cannot and shouldn't be forced. You think the Colts didnt look at it strongly this last draft? You think that's not heavy on Ballard's mind? If the Colts don't make the playoffs and are drafting in similar position, I bet they do again what they did this last draft i.e. see what the draft class looks like and what's possible.

 

Also, I wouldn't rule out the playoffs just yet. Indy clamped down on Minnesota and Chicago. Those are not bad teams. This thing isn't done. There is a blueprint on how to win for this team, that blueprint is still good enough for 9 wins. They can't afford too many more injuries though.

[Valpo2004]

2 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

Yeah the only situation I can think of is Mahomes, and like you said he was far surpassing Alex Smith in practices. Mahomes is truly special, like Peyton or Brees level special. I don’t personally think Eason is that good, but who knows

This ^^^

 

Also, no shame in losing to the Browns this year. They may not be SB-level yet, but they are very good

 

Easton was a 4th round pick for a reason and was widely viewed as a project QB at best.  

 

Project QB's are not usually ready to play at a high level after training camp and 5 weeks with the team.  

[Dingus McGirt]

19 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Reich was extremely stubborn with Vinatieri. The guy was clearly washed or struggling with injury, that was a mistake not bringing someone in earlier. 

 

This case is different though. One they chose Rivers as their option then his success was couched on certain things. Everyone assumed a great running game would be there, the best O-line in the league, a superb young opportunistic defense was hoped for, wideouts would bounce back. He'd take the chances that Brissett didn't. Now tell me, how much of those pluses have been present?

 

On the flip side, Rivers was known for risky play occasionally, it was known that he might struggle in shootouts and force things. It was known that arm strength was an issue. It was known that if the team was leaning too heavily on him then it'd be bad. Is any of that a surprise?

 

Honestly if we look at how things are, Rivers has been EXACTLY what we expected, go read the articles written about how this could go. He is better than Brissett. No question.

 

You mention another coach bringing in Eason. Please show me which coach has done anything remotely close to that. The Eason you crave is a fiction of your imagination not based on anything factual. When Mahomes was backing up Smith, there were constant leaks about how SUPERB he was in practice, there was talk about how the Chiefs definitely needed to move from Smith because this kid they drafted had abilities that Smith couldn't dream of. Even with all that, they only moved on from Smith AFTER the season.

 

Rivers isn't getting benched, and that is 100% the right decision. Bringing Rivers in was questionable, he wasn't my choice but deed is done, he's the Colts most-ready QB. 

 

Onto the other things you brought up

wow - good comments.

[csmopar]

Just now, Valpo2004 said:

 

Easton was a 4th round pick for a reason and was widely viewed as a project QB at best.  

 

Project QB's are not usually ready to play at a high level after training camp and 5 weeks with the team.  

Agreed. IF Rivers is Benched, its for Brissett. Which the gain would be minimal at best.

[chickenMan]

5 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

For the record I don't think River's gets benched because I think he leads us to a playoff seed.  I don't think we get very far in the playoffs but I think we make the playoffs.  

I think we beat the Bengals, Lions, Jags, and Texans twice, sticking us right at 8-8, maybe 9-7 if we can sneak past the Titans one week. I think that gives us the new 7th seed, and spares Rivers a bench seat.

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, Dingus McGirt said:

wow

 You'll have to expand on that response. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.

[Valpo2004]

5 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

I think we beat the Bengals, Lions, Jags, and Texans twice, sticking us right at 8-8, maybe 9-7 if we can sneak past the Titans one week. I think that gives us the new 7th seed, and spares Rivers a bench seat.

 

I think we could sneak a win against either the Titans or the Raiders or the Steelers or Green Bay or even maybe Baltimore.  I think the Colts are good enough that one of those teams is going to be looking ahead or they are going to take an injury that they have trouble recovering from and the Colts grab a win.  

[basketballsteve]

Like Adam last year we will once it's too late.

[GoColts8818]

I voted no the only way he gets “benched” is by injury which isn’t really a benching or if they want to look at Eason if they are knocked out of playoff contention.

[pacolts56]

1 hour ago, UKColt13 said:

Yeah he didn’t play great but we weren’t blown out. He had 2 bad picks and he was under pressure by probably the leagues best pass rusher that was being blocked by a career backup tackle.

 

I don’t think losing to a very competent 3-1 team, on the road, by 9 points, without your starting LT, without your best defensive player and missing your no.2&3 receivers qualifies as the sky falling in.

 

You get nowhere by benching your QB every time he makes a couple of mistakes. We did have our moments of playing pretty well, the Browns played better and were healthier, and won a good game. I’m okay with that.

Excellent and accurate context. 

[stitches]

Very little chance we bench him and I don't really want us to bench him. He needs to play better but he's probably our best QB anyways. 

[onebad150]

We all know what an upstanding man Coach Reich is, we would all love our children to use him as a role model. BUT He has shown some flaws as a HC: He stays with players long after they have proven that they need benched and/or replaced #1 staying with JB as starting QB, #2 letting AV cost us 2-3 wins, and now #3 staying with Rivers as our starting QB. And #4 He continues to be the person calling plays after our offense continues to be predictable, plays take too long to develop and even though our offense still struggles 

Sometimes a HC has to make some tough decision's, you can't be a nice guy all the time. There are too many Colt players busting there butt to win, to be let down by the HC failure to step-up and do the right thing 

[chickenMan]

2 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I think we could sneak a win against either the Titans or the Raiders or the Steelers or Green Bay or even maybe Baltimore.  I think the Colts are good enough that one of those teams is going to be looking ahead or they are going to take an injury that they have trouble recovering from and the Colts grab a win.  

With our run D and a short week I think we slow down Henry enough in our TNF meeting with the Titans to get past them. I don’t see us beating them twice. Unfortunately, the NFL screwed us over, as for the third year in a row we play our TNF game on the road.

 

Maybe we can beat GB in Indy, as Rogers always struggles down here, but going to Pittsburgh will be really tough, especially in the dead of winter.

 

The Bengals slowed down Lamar last week, so we could definitely do it, but I think the Ravens D is too good for Rivers to beat. 

 

LV is too high powered on O for us to keep up with, Carr and their RB will wear us down on D.

[NannyMcafee]

Rivers won't be benched and won't be resigned unless we win several games on his back. 

[Colt.45]

20 minutes ago, onebad150 said:

We all know what an upstanding man Coach Reich is, we would all love our children to use him as a role model. BUT He has shown some flaws as a HC: He stays with players long after they have proven that they need benched and/or replaced #1 staying with JB as starting QB, #2 letting AV cost us 2-3 wins, and now #3 staying with Rivers as our starting QB. And #4 He continues to be the person calling plays after our offense continues to be predictable, plays take too long to develop and even though our offense still struggles 

Sometimes a HC has to make some tough decision's, you can't be a nice guy all the time. There are too many Colt players busting there butt to win, to be let down by the HC failure to step-up and do the right thing 

 

I'll give you AV. The others are simply emotional responses that don't have any factual foundation.

JB was starter because last year he was the Colts best QB. We all saw Hoyer and hope never to see him again. Chad Kelly? Well the less said the better.

 

Rivers? You want to bench him 5 games in? For who exactly? 

[Colt.45]

17 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

With our run D and a short week I think we slow down Henry enough in our TNF meeting with the Titans to get past them. I don’t see us beating them twice. Unfortunately, the NFL screwed us over, as for the third year in a row we play our TNF game on the road.

 

Maybe we can beat GB in Indy, as Rogers always struggles down here, but going to Pittsburgh will be really tough, especially in the dead of winter.

 

The Bengals slowed down Lamar last week, so we could definitely do it, but I think the Ravens D is too good for Rivers to beat. 

 

LV is too high powered on O for us to keep up with, Carr and their RB will wear us down on D.

 

Yeah it's tough sledding. Those are solid teams. I think good health is the key. If the Colts run out this bad playing O-line and garbage running game, combined with wideouts not really stamping their mark on games then for sure the odds are heavily stacked against Indy. Rivers is not Luck who went toe to toe with New England with Chester Rogers as WR1. The complementary pieces have to be there.

 

However, IF the team is relatively healthy and the run game and O-line play much better, I still think Indy can take some of those games. They won in Chicago, that was not an easy defense to go up against and Rivers played it very well. I think if the other pieces show up, Rivers can hang versus the Ravens. The problems start when the Colts defense gets the doors blown away early and then the coaches start calling these weird plays that put Rivers in positions he has no business being in.

 

Health is the key. Maybe I'm being a bit too optimistic. 

[chickenMan]

5 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Yeah it's tough sledding. Those are solid teams. I think good health is the key. If the Colts run out this bad playing O-line and garbage running game, combined with wideouts not really stamping their mark on games then for sure the odds are heavily stacked against Indy. Rivers is not Luck who went toe to toe with New England with Chester Rogers as WR1. The complementary pieces have to be there.

 

However, IF the team is relatively healthy and the run game and O-line play much better, I still think Indy can take some of those games. They won in Chicago, that was not an easy defense to go up against and Rivers played it very well. I think if the other pieces show up, Rivers can hang versus the Ravens. The problems start when the Colts defense gets the doors blown away early and then the coaches start calling these weird plays that put Rivers in positions he has no business being in.

 

Health is the key. Maybe I'm being a bit too optimistic. 

No, I actually think you’re being quite realistic. Looking at the positives, Rivers was under duress all day because Reich refused to give Clark any help against Garrett. I believe at least one of Rivers’ INTs came as he was being pressured by Garrett. If we can help Rivers with play calling and get the run game going, we will do better on O. While we have struggled in the Red Zone, we haven’t struggled moving the ball as much as last year.

 

Also, I think the OL is playing fine with run blocking, JT is just a rookie who’s still developing his vision. Part of why our run game was so good last year was because Mack has incredible vision, which JT is still developing.