Lombardi's Assessment of Rivers

[Stephen 1,725]

2 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

Well, I was pretty happy when we signed him. Because I was (and still am) pretty convinced that Brissett isn’t the answer we’re looking for.  He was acquired to fill in for Luck temporarily, which he did pretty well.

 

And the fact is: we’ve got a pretty solid team most other places.

 

I wasn’t worried about Rivers never getting the Chargers to the SB.  And it’s not as if I expected that adding him would necessarily get us there.

 

But I was encouraged by Reich and Ballard having positive impressions from his workouts.  Five games into his first season here, I’m left wondering just what it is they saw that made them pull the trigger.

More than what we are seeing 

[Four2itus 4,700]

7 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Whether it be a gm or coach, the most difficult thing they have a hard time with is admitting when they have made a mistake and and failure to move on.

Equally, fans have a hard time admitting that coaches are not required to admit anything to them as fans. It is simply not part of the job requirement. As far as moving on, if the Colts moved on a fast as some fans wanted (coaches, GM's & players), they quite likely would become a joke of a franchise. 

[Mr.Debonair 1,671]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

Funny how we had one of the highest paid QB rooms going into the season and yet it's our biggest weakness

Unreal

[Two_pound 250]

I find it absolutely laughable that there are people on this forum clamoring for Brissett. He has had two shots both times were abysmal failures. A highly paid media clown says we should go with Brissett, that in itself says no way. Even in his mop up duty this year he looked confused, indecisive, and unable to handle the job of an nfl qb. This Brissett talk needs to end. Maybe he is a great guy, great teammate, excellent human being, impeccable character, but, we have no better chance of winning with him at qb as we do when Clark is playing left tackle.

[LJpalmbeacher2 1,610]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I really enjoy listening to Lombardi's podcast, GM Shuffle. I find him to be very insightful and brutally honest. If u r interested, you can listen to his assessment of the Colt's qb situation at 28.40 mins  of the podcast. In short, he said Rivers is a statue and little arm strength. He is for Brissett and  says Reich has blinders on and has to be honest about Rivers. It is a very good listen and the Colts have little chance of beating top tier teams.

 

What is Lombardi's assessment of Ballard signing Rivers? 

I mean, the chargers parted ways from him knowing his immobility & lack of arm strength,  so why is he our qb getting paid $25 million, ESPECIALLY when there were so many other options?? 

[2006Coltsbestever 21,124]

15 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

What is Lombardi's assessment of Ballard signing Rivers? 

I mean, the chargers parted ways from him knowing his immobility & lack of arm strength,  so why is he our qb getting paid $25 million, ESPECIALLY when there were so many other options?? 

Rivers was my 2nd option, only QB I liked better was Carr but we would've had to trade for him. It seemed like Gruden wanted to trade him but it never happened.

[EastStreet 8,575]

57 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Everyone has good and bad. What I like about him as thay he is honest and freely admits it when he is wrong. When u listen to his podcasts, you do come away thinking he is intelligent. The one thing I totally agree with him on is this. Whether it be a gm or coach, the most difficult thing they have a hard time with is admitting when they have made a mistake and and failure to move on.

IDK man. Even after Pederson won the SB, Lombardi himself had trouble admitting he was wrong. And even when he admitted he got it wrong (which only happened after getting roasted by many), it was followed by a huge "but".... He's basically calling someone else out now for what he's done lol.

 

I'd add that if Lombardi thought so little of Pederson, he had to think even less of Reich, who was Pederson's understudy at the time, and had just got fired in LA for having the worst balance in the league.

 

As far as Rivers is concerned, he has never been a cannon for an arm guy. He's always been up and down on INTs and has averaged close to one a game throughout his career. And he's never been mobile. Folks are acting like he's changed, when he's really just the same guy lol. 

 

Regardless, I see Reich as more of a problem right now. Reich's success track record isn't exactly beyond reproach.

 

[Four2itus 4,700]

26 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Rivers was my 2nd option, only QB I liked better was Carr but we would've had to trade for him. It seemed like Gruden wanted to trade him but it never happened.

I think my choices were Carr, then Dalton, then Rivers.

[Moosejawcolt 1,399]

43 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

What is Lombardi's assessment of Ballard signing Rivers? 

I mean, the chargers parted ways from him knowing his immobility & lack of arm strength,  so why is he our qb getting paid $25 million, ESPECIALLY when there were so many other options?? 

I think Ballard and Reich wont back down because they spoke so highly of him and paid him 25 million.

[coltsva 1,685]

Bottom line, it’s very frustrating for a fan to have their team playing with a statue QB with a pop gun arm, in a league filled with mobile QB’s with rifle arms. 

[EastStreet 8,575]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Difference is we can all see what he is seeing. 

He's not overly insightful. He's taking an easy trigger (INTs) for fans, and making and argument for clicks. He failed in the NFL, and failed in broadcasting, so now he's limited to podcasts and few places that will still publish his stuff...

 

And about what we all can see. If you actually knew Rivers, you'd already know he's never had a laser cannon for an arm. You'd know he's averaged about one INT per game throughout his career. This is nothing new... 

 

And to make a case for JB is just silly. If anything, a case should be made for Sirianni to start calling plays to put us in better position for success.

[IinD 2,099]

2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Equally, fans have a hard time admitting that coaches are not required to admit anything to them as fans. It is simply not part of the job requirement. As far as moving on, if the Colts moved on a fast as some fans wanted (coaches, GM's & players), they quite likely would become a joke of a franchise. 

Fans never take that into account. Nobody of any value would want to sign with you if you bail on players as soon as they hit adversity.

You become a show up and collect a paycheck team for desperate players. Like Washington is now or the Raiders during the end of Al David's time. Or any of the AFC East squads during the Patty's reign.

[TheBlueAndWhite 71]

7 hours ago, Two_pound said:

I find it absolutely laughable that there are people on this forum clamoring for Brissett. He has had two shots both times were abysmal failures. A highly paid media clown says we should go with Brissett, that in itself says no way. Even in his mop up duty this year he looked confused, indecisive, and unable to handle the job of an nfl qb. This Brissett talk needs to end. Maybe he is a great guy, great teammate, excellent human being, impeccable character, but, we have no better chance of winning with him at qb as we do when Clark is playing left tackle.

I've only seen a few people that think brissett should start, most people who want a qb change want to see what eason's got, and I'll be honest, the QB play from rivers is not much, if different at all from what brissett was doing last year. 

[basketballsteve 52]

The thought process Reich used for Adam last year, which was flawed, a sort of ostrich process, is the same one he is using for Phillip. Past is prologue. The choice doesn't need to be either/or, it could be binary.

[Two_pound 250]

I disagree, when Brissett qb'd last year I felt we had little to no chance to win, the games were close and competitive but Brissett could not get the job done in the final 4 minutes. Isn't it something like 80% of nfl games come down to one possesion (8 points or less difference in the final 4 minutes). That, by the way, I think is an incredible stat, but it keeps the fans glued to their tv's. Any way, with Rivers, we have a good chance to win. He has won 3 games and blown 2 with interceptions. I don't know if you are old enough to remember Vinnie Testeverde, but he threw so many game clinching interceptions while he played for the Bucs and Browns it was pathetic. Hopefully Rivers won't desinagrate to those levels of Vinnie incompetence. The only other viable option was Dalton and he went to dallas. Rivers will be fine.

[DougDew 2,270]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 If he truly ends up stinking then we move on. I won't pile on Reich unless we miss the playoffs this year because we have a playoff roster.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  Somehow, many have concluded that we have a playoff roster despite never making the playoffs without having an elite QB.  Blaming Rivers or Reich just feeds a narrative, IMO.

 

We've added Buckner, and that's great, but the additions of a #2 WR and a FS who can actually contribute is offset by what appears to be a next-year's decline in the play of our only weapon on O and our LT.  Kind of a push from last year.

 

There is a poster on the forum who talks about attacking the edges.  Please notice that interior players, like FS, Gs, Cs, and ILBs, are less valuable than edge players like WRs, T's. CBs, and RBs who can attack the edge.  How old is our best EDGE rusher?

 

Our edge players, the more important positions, kinda suck actually.  We don't even have a developmental LT that can play RT for a while until AC leaves (like a McGlinchey).  Instead, our RT is barely a RT who has little hope of switching sides. 

 

We may sneak into the playoffs in an expanded format, but our WRs, Ts, DEs, and CBs are not playoff caliber, IMO. 

[2006Coltsbestever 21,124]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  Somehow, many have concluded that we have a playoff roster despite never making the playoffs without having an elite QB.  Blaming Rivers or Reich just feeds a narrative, IMO.

 

We've added Buckner, and that's great, but the additions of a #2 WR and a FS who can actually contribute is offset by what appears to be a next-year's decline in the play of our only weapon on O and our LT.  Kind of a push from last year.

 

There is a poster on the forum who talks about attacking the edges.  Please notice that interior players, like FS, Gs, Cs, and ILBs, are less valuable than edge players like WRs, T's. CBs, and RBs who can attack the edge.  How old is our best EDGE rusher?

 

Our edge players, the more important positions, kinda suck actually.  We don't even have a developmental LT that can play RT for a while until AC leaves (like a McGlinchey).  Instead, our RT is barely a RT who has little hope of switching sides. 

 

We may sneak into the playoffs in an expanded format, but our WRs, Ts, DEs, and CBs are not playoff caliber, IMO. 

Good points as I agree to I am not happy with our WR core. If TY was 3 years younger I would be ok with it. He still can have a few great games IMO but isn't what he once was. I said the same thing when defending JB but many didn't want to hear it. You give Rivers or JB the Chiefs WR's and Kelce at TE, they would look good, JMO. 

[coming on strong 977]

1 hour ago, Two_pound said:

I disagree, when Brissett qb'd last year I felt we had little to no chance to win, the games were close and competitive but Brissett could not get the job done in the final 4 minutes. Isn't it something like 80% of nfl games come down to one possesion (8 points or less difference in the final 4 minutes). That, by the way, I think is an incredible stat, but it keeps the fans glued to their tv's. Any way, with Rivers, we have a good chance to win. He has won 3 games and blown 2 with interceptions. I don't know if you are old enough to remember Vinnie Testeverde, but he threw so many game clinching interceptions while he played for the Bucs and Browns it was pathetic. Hopefully Rivers won't desinagrate to those levels of Vinnie incompetence. The only other viable option was Dalton and he went to dallas. Rivers will be fine.

Through 5 games last year colts were 3and 2 with jacoby throwing 10 touchdowns and two picks .      This year we are 3and 2 rivers has 4 touchdowns to 5 picks .     Plus our schedule last year was way tougher through 5 games.  How can you say with rivers we have a better chance . he is a game manager who cant score touchdowns and throws horrible picks.    Jacoby is better right now .   Jacoby is a game manager with mobility and makes no mistakes.   Rivers is a game manager who makes bad mistakes.  Rivers used to be a gun slinger ,but now at 39 he is a worse version of jacoby .   Our run game did better using jacoby with the run pass option .

[luv_pony_express 438]

10 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Equally, fans have a hard time admitting that coaches are not required to admit anything to them as fans. It is simply not part of the job requirement. As far as moving on, if the Colts moved on a fast as some fans wanted (coaches, GM's & players), they quite likely would become a joke of a franchise. 

That’s true, they don’t owe us any explanations, concessions, etc.  But they are paid to put together winning teams.  And, after all, we’re the customer...the people paying to watch those teams.

 

That said, sometimes the peanut gallery is right — and faster so than the staff.  A great example of this is Adam Vinatieri.  Can anybody say with a straight face that the Colts shouldn’t have cut bait with Vinny way sooner than they did?

 

Now, we don’t know what kinds of things were being discussed behind closed doors.  They did work out a couple kickers while AV was still suiting up each Sunday.  And make no mistake, his obvious decline cost us critical wins...and Reich and company were doing their Baghdad Bob routine afterwards.

 

Those of us calling for a new placekicker were right.  And, ultimately, the Colts agreed. But way, way later than they should have.

 

Im sorry, but it’s not good coaching or roster management to let an obvious problem fester.  The point here is not that they owe us explanations or should listen to us.  The point is that they should be the ones getting out in front of problems and fixing them.

[Bolts2Colts 291]

27 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

Through 5 games last year colts were 3and 2 with jacoby throwing 10 touchdowns and two picks .      This year we are 3and 2 rivers has 4 touchdowns to 5 picks .     Plus our schedule last year was way tougher through 5 games.  How can you say with rivers we have a better chance . he is a game manager who cant score touchdowns and throws horrible picks.    Jacoby is better right now .   Jacoby is a game manager with mobility and makes no mistakes.   Rivers is a game manager who makes bad mistakes.  Rivers used to be a gun slinger ,but now at 39 he is a worse version of jacoby .   Our run game did better using jacoby with the run pass option .

Have you reviewed this chart comparing QBs and noted where Jacoby appeared on it through Week 5 of last year? 

https://twitter.com/vevejones007/status/1316110915477991424?s=21

 

Not saying it’s gospel truth but it’s an unbiased, objective analysis. 

 

Have you noticed that the offense almost always scores touchdowns on the first drive, when both Sirianni and Reich have scripted the plays and the team has perfected those plays in practice? 
 

Somehow when Reich is calling plays live, the offense is far less effective.

[coming on strong 977]

2 minutes ago, Bolts2Colts said:

Have you reviewed this chart comparing QBs and noted where Jacoby appeared on it through Week 5 of last year? 

https://twitter.com/vevejones007/status/1316110915477991424?s=21

 

Not saying it’s gospel truth but it’s an unbiased, objective analysis. 

 

Have you noticed that the offense almost always scores touchdowns on the first drive, when both Sirianni and Reich have scripted the plays and the team has perfected those plays in practice? 
 

Somehow when Reich is calling plays live, the offense is far less effective.

I agree play calling is bad . Rivers last year played bad ,its his age he is struggling with his body in decline.  I do not think rivers at 39 is a upgrade over jacoby . Rivers can make maybe 2 or 3 bigger plays a game, but also makes 2 or 3 terrible mistakes that off set it.

[EastStreet 8,575]

23 minutes ago, Bolts2Colts said:

Have you reviewed this chart comparing QBs and noted where Jacoby appeared on it through Week 5 of last year? 

https://twitter.com/vevejones007/status/1316110915477991424?s=21

 

Not saying it’s gospel truth but it’s an unbiased, objective analysis. 

 

Have you noticed that the offense almost always scores touchdowns on the first drive, when both Sirianni and Reich have scripted the plays and the team has perfected those plays in practice? 
 

Somehow when Reich is calling plays live, the offense is far less effective.

here's the tweet to make it easier for some :-)

 

 

[RollerColt 2,305]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  Somehow, many have concluded that we have a playoff roster despite never making the playoffs without having an elite QB.  Blaming Rivers or Reich just feeds a narrative, IMO.

 

We've added Buckner, and that's great, but the additions of a #2 WR and a FS who can actually contribute is offset by what appears to be a next-year's decline in the play of our only weapon on O and our LT.  Kind of a push from last year.

 

There is a poster on the forum who talks about attacking the edges.  Please notice that interior players, like FS, Gs, Cs, and ILBs, are less valuable than edge players like WRs, T's. CBs, and RBs who can attack the edge.  How old is our best EDGE rusher?

 

Our edge players, the more important positions, kinda suck actually.  We don't even have a developmental LT that can play RT for a while until AC leaves (like a McGlinchey).  Instead, our RT is barely a RT who has little hope of switching sides. 

 

We may sneak into the playoffs in an expanded format, but our WRs, Ts, DEs, and CBs are not playoff caliber, IMO. 

To add to this: we may be in competition with teams like the Bengals for a LT this coming offseason if we move on from AC and or he retires. At least, if the Bengals have any sense at all, that will be their first and primary focus on ensuring Burrow doesn't get killed a second year in a row. 

 

7 hours ago, IinD said:

Fans never take that into account. Nobody of any value would want to sign with you if you bail on players as soon as they hit adversity.

You become a show up and collect a paycheck team for desperate players. Like Washington is now or the Raiders during the end of Al David's time. Or any of the AFC East squads during the Patty's reign.

Also, the Jets! 

 

I'd like to invite people to rewatch the Browns game and really study Rivers. You will notice some things: 

 

-Yes, his arm strength isn't that great. His throws seem to hang in the air almost like a punt before the ball reaches the receiver. 

-You will also notice that Rivers is still capable of throwing receivers open, despite the lack of arm strength. 

-Rivers was able to move the ball down the field pretty effectively on most drives. 

-The redzone is what ultimately killed us and costing us the chance to win. It needs to be the absolute focus this week in practice and this weekend. 

 

[DougDew 2,270]

3 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

 

-Rivers was able to move the ball down the field pretty effectively on most drives. 

-The redzone is what ultimately killed us and costing us the chance to win. It needs to be the absolute focus this week in practice and this weekend. 

 

Imo, this is a classic case of the offense benefiting from the defense having to defend the entire field up until the red zone, where there then becomes less field to defend.  In the red zone, it becomes a little less of a scheming strategy and more of a match up contest with skill position players having to win their one-on-one battles.  Our talent falls short, and this has been a red zone problem this season so far.

[Bolts2Colts 291]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

here's the tweet to make it easier for some :-)

 

Thanks East. I don’t know why but sometimes the tweet gets embedded and other times I can only post a link. What am I doing wrong b/c I like to bring in tweets to make a point sometimes. ;)

[Bolts2Colts 291]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Imo, this is a classic case of the offense benefiting from the defense having to defend the entire field up until the red zone, where there then becomes less field to defend.  In the red zone, it becomes a little less of a scheming strategy and more of a match up contest with skill position players having to win their one-on-one battles.  Our talent falls short, and this has been a red zone problem this season so far.

Agreed, although it was a great scheme against the Bears for the TD in that game. 

We need more Mo in the red zone. I read something about a knee injury with him. Hope it’s not a big deal. 

[chad72 6,494]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Good points as I agree to I am not happy with our WR core. If TY was 3 years younger I would be ok with it. He still can have a few great games IMO but isn't what he once was. I said the same thing when defending JB but many didn't want to hear it. You give Rivers or JB the Chiefs WR's and Kelce at TE, they would look good, JMO. 

 

Grigson had the right idea to get Dorsett, just got the player wrong. Same thing with several other positions he tried to fix, he knew what we needed but couldn't evaluate them well enough to give us the right ones. Not to mention, our players didn't develop nearly as well under Pagano either. 

 

Like I said in a thread on free agency - get Allen Robinson in free agency for WR, get Cameron Fleming for back up/starting OT in case of injury from Giants, and Tyler Kroft for TE, and re-sign TY at a #2 WR rate (let him go if he asks too much especially if we sign Robinson), re-sign Houston and Mack for 1 year show-me deals, and extend Leonard. Braden Smith, we will worry about the next off season. Then go in with all the draft capital in tact and get a pass rusher, WR and CB in Rounds 1-3, a developmental OT and good system fits later.

[EastStreet 8,575]

9 minutes ago, Bolts2Colts said:

Thanks East. I don’t know why but sometimes the tweet gets embedded and other times I can only post a link. What am I doing wrong b/c I like to bring in tweets to make a point sometimes. ;)

No problem. On the lower right of the tweet, there is an arrow pointing up. Click on that and select "link"

[holeymoley99 478]

Rivers has an arm still we can all see that through 5 games, its his decision making and forcing throws which is the issue and a major issue it is.......

[DougDew 2,270]

17 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Grigson had the right idea to get Dorsett, just got the player wrong. Same thing with several other positions he tried to fix, he knew what we needed but couldn't evaluate them well enough to give us the right ones. Not to mention, our players didn't develop nearly as well under Pagano either. 

 

Like I said in a thread on free agency - get Allen Robinson in free agency for WR, get Cameron Fleming for back up/starting OT in case of injury from Giants, and Tyler Kroft for TE, and re-sign TY at a #2 WR rate (let him go if he asks too much especially if we sign Robinson), re-sign Houston and Mack for 1 year show-me deals, and extend Leonard. Braden Smith, we will worry about the next off season. Then go in with all the draft capital in tact and get a pass rusher, WR and CB in Rounds 1-3, a developmental OT and good system fits later.

I'd like something better at LT.  Probably will have to be our 1st round pick.

 

The idea of improving our #1WR talent, and at the same time improving our slot talent by pushing TY there exponentially increase the talent level of the WR corps.  It only takes one signing (well two including TY).  Campbell can back up to both Robinson and TY, and Pascal can backup Pittman.  Talent and depth fixed with a #1WR upgrade.

 

Need EDGE badly too.  Houston won't be here forever.  Neither will Autry.

 

Where's Banogu?

[Valpo2004 1,486]

After all the years of Manning followed by the Luck years, Colts fans are spoiled at the QB position and expect to always have a QB that can pick the team up on his back and carry them to the win.

 

Rivers has limitations, we knew that going in.  He's not mobile and if you can't protect him he's gonna play bad.  Last week we simply did not protect him.  End of story

 

He's not only the best QB on the roster, he's also the best QB that was realistically available last year. 

[Four2itus 4,700]

58 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Not to mention, our players didn't develop nearly as well under Pagano either. 

I think that was a bigger issue than the GM or Pagano's coaching ability. The Colts development then was not good.

[luv_pony_express 438]

2 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

Rivers has limitations, we knew that going in.  He's not mobile and if you can't protect him he's gonna play bad.  Last week we simply did not protect him.  End of story

 

He's not only the best QB on the roster, he's also the best QB that was realistically available last year. 

 

1) As regards his poor mobility, I have to be honest in saying that it's worse than I expected.  I can't say I watched him a lot during his later years with SD/LAC.  But I did catch him here and there on primetime or when they played the Colts.  It's significantly worse than I remember.

 

2) Poor mobility isn't a dealbreaker for an NFL QB, so long as the QB can compensate for it -- things like quick release, arm strength, good decision-making under pressure.   I think it's fair to ask the question of whether or not he's able to compensate for his bad mobility.

 

3) I agree that pass protection was pretty bad against Cleveland.  But if you're going to compete in today's NFL, you're going to have to be able to deal with pressure on the quarterback.

 

4) I think Rivers should still be starting at this point.  But I'm not as convinced as you are that our team is the best it can be with him under center.  And I'm not a big Brissett fan.

[LJpalmbeacher2 1,610]

13 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think Ballard and Reich wont back down because they spoke so highly of him and paid him 25 million.

I agree.

[Chloe6124 9,011]

Michael Lombardi is on JMV right now. He is talking about how rivers has no velocity left so his ball hangs in the air and takes forever to get to its spot. He is advocating for Jacoby because at least he can get out of the pocket and throw on the run. Reich said today they are always evaluating plays to use Jacoby in the red zone. 

 

He also mentioned how the colts could be the recipient of the ripple effect of teams like the jets drafting another QB.

[Four2itus 4,700]

8 hours ago, DougDew said:

We may sneak into the playoffs in an expanded format, but our WRs, Ts, DEs, and CBs are not playoff caliber, IMO. 

I'd put our T's as good enough in the playoffs to get it done, but our T depth is not nearly enough, as was shown. CB's will be there by next year. 

[Chloe6124 9,011]

18 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

Well, I was pretty happy when we signed him. Because I was (and still am) pretty convinced that Brissett isn’t the answer we’re looking for.  He was acquired to fill in for Luck temporarily, which he did pretty well.

 

And the fact is: we’ve got a pretty solid team most other places.

 

I wasn’t worried about Rivers never getting the Chargers to the SB.  And it’s not as if I expected that adding him would necessarily get us there.

 

But I was encouraged by Reich and Ballard having positive impressions from his workouts.  Five games into his first season here, I’m left wondering just what it is they saw that made them pull the trigger.

Looking at the teams in the AFC and how good they look I don’t have much confidence at getting into the playoffs with our schedule. The afc is very good this year. I haven’t seen enough from us yet to think we can hang with the better teams.

[indykmj 68]

21 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Like I said too early to tell. The way people react after a loss is comical. We won at Chicago, they are a good team at 4-1. Bucs/Brady even lost to them.

 

  Make what you will of Football Outsiders DVOA. But by that particular yardstick, the Bears are the 

  second worst 4-1 team in the last 35 years.

[ColtsBlueFL 4,356]

21 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

What bothers me most about Reich (bothered me about Pagano too)  is the soft language in pressers.  "Credit the other team", "outplayed in all three phases", "outcoached", "they get paid too", and the absolutely maddening (not john) "it's hard to win in the nfl".  These are the touchstones of a soft organization imo.  When losing is excused it becomes acceptable and accountibility drops........

Just once say we're all thinking....."distgusted", "absolutely cannot happen in that situation" "da#nit donald", anything!

 

21 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Yup. I understand Reich protecting his players, but he is bordering on stubbornness and stupidity by some of his comments.  P.S that being said, I like Reich

 

We do no know what is said to the players by Reich, Ballard, and assistant coaches, and with what tone(s) in different circumstances. How they address the media outside the locker room is meaningless in comparison.

[Sumo63 511]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

We do no know what is said to the players by Reich, Ballard, and assistant coaches, and with what tone(s) in different circumstances. How they address the media outside the locker room is meaningless in comparison.

You're right to a degree.  There is a b.s. meter though.  It erodes credibility with fans and eventually players.  Just look at Pagano/Grigson.

 

They undeniably hurt the franchise.  And had lost fans, locker room, and ownership by the bitter end.  Same language is being used now.

 

True unifing messages are all encompassing. you want to build a foundation for a "culture",  mean every word you say no matter who you say it to.  You dont gotta put people on blast, just be direct......anyway, just my opinion.

 

Again tho, you're assessment accurately depicts the reality of the situation, and i understand that.