How long should River leash be? (merge)

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Jacoby was so good in the red zone the first half of last season. He was throwing a lot of TD. Rivers just looks terrible. At least it is safe tc say we have a pretty good FG kicker.

[EastStreet]

Just now, coming on strong said:

i feel the same , i want to see eason play .   Rivers is only averaging around 200 yards per game passing and not even throwing one touchdown a game , while throwing a pick per game .  I would still give him next week and the lions game but if he still is throwing picks and not putting up points i would bench him

With Reich's play calling and game plans, I don't see any QB throwing for a lot of yards or TDs. And he'd be uber conservative with Eason. I'm happy to ride Rivers a little more. I just hate the game plans Reich calls. And really starting to hate his personnel usage this year. Hines up the gut. Over use of Burton. Lack of use of Mo. Over rotating both RBs and WRs. If I were able to bench anyone, it would be Reich right now lol and let Sirianni call plays.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

you cant cheat a rebuild by buying a locker room . ballard said this then buys rivers rhodes and carry and tries to go all in for a ring this year .  He broke he original message, and tried to buy a locker room.   The colts would be a super bowl team faster if they stuck to the plan .  Play eason  , play ben banagu and rodgers at corner .  then let all the young guys start and get time and get better .  then keep drafting younger players and let them grow while replacing older guys like ty , and AC.  then in a couple years we will be in a better spot .  You can buy a ring .

This is a great point. We still had Jacoby so we should of just stick with drafting Eason and letting them fight it out.  We also have to be so unlucky with WR. Doesn’t help when both your second round WR are on IR.

[coming on strong]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

With Reich's play calling and game plans, I don't see any QB throwing for a lot of yards or TDs. And he'd be uber conservative with Eason. I'm happy to ride Rivers a little more. I just hate the game plans Reich calls. And really starting to hate his personnel usage this year. Hines up the gut. Over use of Burton. Lack of use of Mo. Over rotating both RBs and WRs. If I were able to bench anyone, it would be Reich right now lol and let Sirianni call plays.

The thing is though were not watching film , what if he saw something with the defense and put in the perfect game plan .  the first week reich had rivers throw it 40 times and we lost .   reich does not have faith in rivers that is why you see they play calls. rivers is throwing picks in practice and making frank scared .   With luck frank had the perfect offense lucks best season a perfect balance and called plenty of deep shots.  frank can only call based on the players he is given . If eason plays good in practice reich will open up the play book for him.

[Smoke317]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

With Reich's play calling and game plans, I don't see any QB throwing for a lot of yards or TDs. And he'd be uber conservative with Eason. I'm happy to ride Rivers a little more. I just hate the game plans Reich calls. And really starting to hate his personnel usage this year. Hines up the gut. Over use of Burton. Lack of use of Mo. Over rotating both RBs and WRs. If I were able to bench anyone, it would be Reich right now lol and let Sirianni call plays.

That might be the answer. Letting Sirianni call the plays.  Because Reich refuses to demand his QB to run the ball.  There were many times where Cleveland had a 6-7 man box & Rivers would still throw it.  Then throw it 2 more times & Taylor was out there as a waste...  

 

We knocked Jacoby for his unwillingness to open up and throw the ball but I wish Phillip could learn to stay committed to establishing the run more like Jacoby did last year.  We don’t need the 3 yard pass to Hines or whomever to replace handing it off to Taylor.  Our line needs to fire off the ball run blocking more than setting up to pass block more often. 

[Patagonia Chris]

17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I didn't provide a sample. Pretty sure you, or someone else, used those names specifically. I can go back and quote the post if you'd like. 

 

His completion/accuracy overall is top 10, as is his AVG. With his AVG, that doesn't support noodle arm. His INTs are pure bad decisions, not a result of noodling.

Yeah, because their offense is mainly built around him checking down. What do your eyes tell you about his arm/velocity? I’m curious to hear.

[coming on strong]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

This is a great point. We still had Jacoby so we should of just stick with drafting Eason and letting them fight it out.  We also have to be so unlucky with WR. Doesn’t help when both your second round WR are on IR.

even so it takes time to develop wr with rivers on a one year contract there was zero chance of these wrs getting good in one year. same with ben banagu he is a project that could take 3 or 4 years . we have lots of young guys still we are not in a win now mode . so to bring in rivers who is in a win now mode made no sense to me .  We need to develop our young guys on defense and offense and get younger with replacing AC  , ty , rhodes houston and jack doyle .  we need a another off season or two and to give eason playing time .  not go for it all 3 years into a full rebuild with rivers

[coming on strong]

i care about the long haul, building a dynasty with young talent from the draft .  Not buying 39 year old QBs to plug in .  the perfect fit for rivers would of been going on the 2013 sea hawks or 2015 broncos .  he picked the wrong team .

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, coming on strong said:

The thing is though were not watching film , what if he saw something with the defense and put in the perfect game plan .  the first week reich had rivers throw it 40 times and we lost .   reich does not have faith in rivers that is why you see they play calls. rivers is throwing picks in practice and making frank scared .   With luck frank had the perfect offense lucks best season a perfect balance and called plenty of deep shots.  frank can only call based on the players he is given . If eason plays good in practice reich will open up the play book for him.

I disagree. I think Frank's first year here, he was probably told to let Luck do what he wants, and Frank probably capitulated. He's either ignoring some obvious things, or just getting too cute. Either way, he's just not that great of a play caller or game planner. There was no reason to even game plan around throwing it all that much vs Jax, who has a bad run D. He did the same thing vs Miami last year, with a QB he didn't even give reps to in practice the week before. He gets too much credit for Philly, when he didn't even call plays or create game plans. His only time calling plays pre-Colts was in LA, and he got fired for not having good balance. I like Frank as a guy, so don't want to see him fired, but I would love to see Sirianni start calling plays and take a different approach.

[coming on strong]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I disagree. I think Frank's first year here, he was probably told to let Luck do what he wants, and Frank probably capitulated. He's either ignoring some obvious things, or just getting too cute. Either way, he's just not that great of a play caller or game planner. There was no reason to even game plan around throwing it all that much vs Jax, who has a bad run D. He did the same thing vs Miami last year, with a QB he didn't even give reps to in practice the week before. He gets too much credit for Philly, when he didn't even call plays or create game plans. His only time calling plays pre-Colts was in LA, and he got fired for not having good balance. I like Frank as a guy, so don't want to see him fired, but I would love to see Sirianni start calling plays and take a different approach.

do you really think even with better play calls rivers can be a top ten QB again ?  i just dont see it i hope i am wrong i would love the colts to win now but i just dont think they are ready yet.   i would keep building through the draft and getting younger and play the young guys now .  the colts can be good in a year or two with eason.

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

That might be the answer. Letting Sirianni call the plays.  Because Reich refuses to demand his QB to run the ball.  There were many times where Cleveland had a 6-7 man box & Rivers would still throw it.  Then throw it 2 more times & Taylor was out there as a waste...  

 

We knocked Jacoby for his unwillingness to open up and throw the ball but I wish Phillip could learn to stay committed to establishing the run more like Jacoby did last year.  We don’t need the 3 yard pass to Hines or whomever to replace handing it off to Taylor.  Our line needs to fire off the ball run blocking more than setting up to pass block more often. 

Cleveland if top 5 vs the run with only a normal box most times. And they were getting pressure on Rivers all game with only 4, and sometimes 2 lol. Our OL simply played bad, so not putting this on Rivers for not checking out of play that Reich called. 

 

JB wasn't checking out of many plays last year, calling plays, or responsible for our commitment to the run. That was Reich. And it was really our only option because JB struggles reading and progressing. 

[ojsglove]

Combine a washed up QB with terrible play calling by our HC and our OL which was outplayed again today, this is what you get.  It's going to be a struggle to make it 8-8.

[CanuckColt]

The sad thing is that Chad Kelly could probably outplay any of the QBs on our roster....too bad.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

14 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

even so it takes time to develop wr with rivers on a one year contract there was zero chance of these wrs getting good in one year. same with ben banagu he is a project that could take 3 or 4 years . we have lots of young guys still we are not in a win now mode . so to bring in rivers who is in a win now mode made no sense to me .  We need to develop our young guys on defense and offense and get younger with replacing AC  , ty , rhodes houston and jack doyle .  we need a another off season or two and to give eason playing time .  not go for it all 3 years into a full rebuild with rivers

Did you see chase Claypool today. Three TD. How about Ruggs. Rookie WR are contributing but all over the league. I am just getting tired of our high drafted WR getting injured. As good as players we have on this team a rookie QB could probably do ok.

[coming on strong]

Even the last 3 games when we won rivers stats were not great .   vs bears 190 1 td .   vs jets 217 1 td .  vs vikings 217  1 td 1 pick .    He got away with it because the defense played well .   he has not proved when the defense fails he can carry the team .    At this stage he is a game manager .   jacoby through 5 games last year had 14 tds to 3 picks  .   even though i dont believe in jacoby either , its safe to say if we need a game manager jacoby is better at it and does not make mistakes .    we are in the same boat as last year , we have to play with the lead always cannot get behind or we cant win .   We got the same thing as last year only rivers is not mobile and throws more picks .    because rivers is new i would still give him a couple more games but if the colts go on a 3 or 4 game losing streak and rivers keeps throwing picks whats the point of playing him

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

do you really think even with better play calls rivers can be a top ten QB again ?  i just dont see it i hope i am wrong i would love the colts to win now but i just dont think they are ready yet.   i would keep building through the draft and getting younger and play the young guys now .  the colts can be good in a year or two with eason.

Maybe not top 10, but definitely would put him a better position. Hines again up the gut though not as much as past. Too much Burton again. No Mo. We attacked the edge with runs a few times, and had good success, but should have done a lot more of it. We abandoned stuff like simple intermediate to long sail routes that we killed it with last week. We didn't over-rotate RBs as bad this week, but we're still over-rotating pass catchers IMO. And stupid stuff like using Burton and Hines as pass targets in the RZ, and not a guy like Mo, or Fountain who can climb the ladder. And it seems we're using the same guys over and over again for clear outs (they are not real targets, just rubbing or clearing) which makes the same WRs predictable most downs. It just goes back to predictable, not creative, and poor choice of personnel.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

do you really think even with better play calls rivers can be a top ten QB again ?  i just dont see it i hope i am wrong i would love the colts to win now but i just dont think they are ready yet.   i would keep building through the draft and getting younger and play the young guys now .  the colts can be good in a year or two with eason.

Eberflus stressed how important it was to play the young guys on defense even though you may take some lumps. We need to take the same approach on offense.  If you want to develop the new QB let them play. We have a good oline so that would help a young QB.

[coming on strong]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Maybe not top 10, but definitely would put him a better position. Hines again up the gut though not as much as past. Too much Burton again. No Mo. We attacked the edge with runs a few times, and had good success, but should have done a lot more of it. We abandoned stuff like simple intermediate to long sail routes that we killed it with last week. We didn't over-rotate RBs as bad this week, but we're still over-rotating pass catchers IMO. And stupid stuff like using Burton and Hines as pass targets in the RZ, and not a guy like Mo, or Fountain who can climb the ladder. And it seems we're using the same guys over and over again for clear outs (they are not real targets, just rubbing or clearing) which makes the same WRs predictable most downs. It just goes back to predictable, not creative, and poor choice of personnel.  

frank seems like he wont ever change though .  It is what it is , he is stuck in his ways .  ballard needs to step in and have a talk with frank .

[Lancer1]

1 hour ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

@NannyMcafee  @Lucky Colts Fan  @Lancer1  @EastStreet @DontEverGiveUp @crazycolt1 

 

 

how you like me now?

Our quarterback had a bad game against a good defense - I'm not freaking out or pretending that the sky is falling over this because it happens to the best of them. On Thursday the QB who is widely considered  to be the GOAT failed to achieve victory against the team that we beat last weekend, but I doubt if Bucs fans are celebrating his defeat or calling for him to be benched, or replaced.

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

Yeah, because their offense is mainly built around him checking down. What do your eyes tell you about his arm/velocity? I’m curious to hear.

You don't have his AVG with just check downs. Check down's are a part of Reich's O for sure, but his AVG would be far lower if it were just that. 

 

Rivers has never been known for throwing lasers. He's a touch passer. I don't see a lot of difference at all from the past 5 years. He's #7 in deep ball accuracy, and that simply doesn't happen with a noodle.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Something to think about we have a good kicker so maybe Jacoby wouldn’t of been so bad. Without the misses last year he might of been ok and won by bigger margins.

[hoosierhawk]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

The other option is Jacoby. 

No thanks.

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

frank seems like he wont ever change though .  It is what it is , he is stuck in his ways .  ballard needs to step in and have a talk with frank .

Honestly, and sadly, I agree with the bolded. I think he has turned conservative since getting canned in LA (for passing too much), and being more or less disempowered in Philly (not calling plays). And I have no idea who Sirianni really is. This is his first OC gig, and he's not calling plays. He "grew up" with Reich in LAC, which doesn't excite me.

[Patagonia Chris]

12 minutes ago, Lancer1 said:

Our quarterback had a bad game against a good defense - I'm not freaking out or pretending that the sky is falling over this because it happens to the best of them. On Thursday the QB who is widely considered  to be the GOAT failed to achieve victory against the team that we beat last weekend, but I doubt if Bucs fans are celebrating his defeat or calling for him to be benched, or replaced.

Exceot hes 43 and threw for more yards and generally had a better game than Rivers did. He was also on the road on a short week without his #2 WR. Brady has also looked much better than Rivers throughout this season.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Freenyfan102 said:

Your a pacers fan arn't you.

I live in Southern California.  Remember, I’m a Colts fan because of Andrew Luck.   I thought that was one of the most open secrets on this website?

 

So, to answer your question,  no, I’m not a Pacers fan.   Sorry. 

[Patagonia Chris]

10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

You don't have his AVG with just check downs. Check down's are a part of Reich's O for sure, but his AVG would be far lower if it were just that. 

 

Rivers has never been known for throwing lasers. He's a touch passer. I don't see a lot of difference at all from the past 5 years. He's #7 in deep ball accuracy, and that simply doesn't happen with a noodle.

Well then congrats on being the only person who watches football to not see diminished arm strength. Are you citing PFF on downfield accuracy?

[ojsglove]

2 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

Exceot hes 43 and threw for more yards and generally had a better game than Rivers did. He was also on the road on a short week without his #2 WR. Brady has also looked much better than Rivers throughout this season.

I would rather lose with Rivers than win with the Devil.

[coming on strong]

11 minutes ago, Lancer1 said:

Our quarterback had a bad game against a good defense - I'm not freaking out or pretending that the sky is falling over this because it happens to the best of them. On Thursday the QB who is widely considered  to be the GOAT failed to achieve victory against the team that we beat last weekend, but I doubt if Bucs fans are celebrating his defeat or calling for him to be benched, or replaced.

yea but brady is playing good if you count the season so far .  rivers has yet to throw a multiple touchdown game or throw more then 1 touchdown in a game .   If brady had thrown 5 picks so far with 4 touchdowns averaging 220 a game the media would be killing him .   If it was one bad game no big deal , but to have 5 bad games in a row .   that is a problem i dont see how you can spin it any other way .   numbers wise he is bottom five in touchdowns yards and picks .   the only thing good is completion percentage but the picks overtake the good out of that .  in this league you have to be able to throw the ball  .  AT least in the first 5 games last year jacoby had 2, 300 yard games and 14 touchdowns to 3 picks .  rivers is 4 touchdowns to 5 picks he is on pace to put up worse stats then last year when he threw 23 touchdowns to 20 picks .  he might throw 15 touch downs to 20 picks with 3 thousand yards passing

[Thunderbolt]

I agree with "Coltsman 1788", cut ties with Rivers after 2020 and start a new era with Eason....No need to waste another 25M on a QB that can't throw over 30 yds...

[Lancer1]

1 minute ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

Well then congrats on being the only person who watches football to not see diminished arm strength. Are you citing PFF on downfield accuracy?

I watch it too, and when Philip was dropping dimes on Minnesota & the Jets, his arm didn't look weak to me.

[coming on strong]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Honestly, and sadly, I agree with the bolded. I think he has turned conservative since getting canned in LA (for passing too much), and being more or less disempowered in Philly (not calling plays). And I have no idea who Sirianni really is. This is his first OC gig, and he's not calling plays. He "grew up" with Reich in LAC, which doesn't excite me.

i do not believe in letting a head coach call plays anyway .  with reich being in the offensive meetings and ignoring the defense makes no sense .   Let your coaches call the plays and be a head coach .

[Yoshinator]

Honestly, with the combination of last year with Brissett, the injuries to key players this year, Rivers being a bad QB, and the way Frank Reich coaches, I'm more disinterested in this team now more than I have been in any time since I started watching the Colts in 1998.

 

Even in 2011, I had the possibility of getting Luck to keep me engaged in a bad sort of way when we had the horrible year record-wise.

 

I'm not even mad or disappointed anymore, I'm just disinterested. It's not fun anymore. Have a great GM, and anything and everything around him is bad or goes bad. Really a shame.

[Patagonia Chris]

6 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

I would rather lose with Rivers than win with the Devil.

That’s weird but to each their own.

[Patagonia Chris]

4 minutes ago, Lancer1 said:

I watch it too, and when Philip was dropping dimes on Minnesota & the Jets, his arm didn't look weak to me.

Hahahahaha dropping dimes against a) the worst team of maybe the last decade and b) he barely had 200 yards against both squads.

[coming on strong]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Honestly, with the combination of last year with Brissett, the injuries to key players this year, Rivers being a bad QB, and the way Frank Reich coaches, I'm more disinterested in this team now more than I have been in any time since I started watching the Colts in 1998.

 

Even in 2011, I had the possibility of getting Luck to keep me engaged in a bad sort of way when we had the horrible year record-wise.

 

I'm not even mad or disappointed anymore, I'm just disinterested. It's not fun anymore. Have a great GM, and anything and everything around him is bad or goes bad. Really a shame.

if they played eason there would be hope for the future but playing a washed up old QB on a young team thats rebuilding makes zero sense . i want to keep rebuilding keep getting younger not bringing in old vets like the grigson years.

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Do you ever read what you write?

 

Goodness gracious, what a mess. 
 

Do you really think there’s ANY chance of that happening?   Then why write that?   Come on now....

Some people on here are simply put, dramatic. 

[Lancer1]

6 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

yea but brady is playing good if you count the season so far .  rivers has yet to throw a multiple touchdown game or throw more then 1 touchdown in a game .   If brady had thrown 5 picks so far with 4 touchdowns averaging 220 a game the media would be killing him .   If it was one bad game no big deal , but to have 5 bad games in a row .   that is a problem i dont see how you can spin it any other way .   numbers wise he is bottom five in touchdowns yards and picks .   the only thing good is completion percentage but the picks overtake the good out of that .  in this league you have to be able to throw the ball  .  AT least in the first 5 games last year jacoby had 2, 300 yard games and 14 touchdowns to 3 picks .  rivers is 4 touchdowns to 5 picks he is on pace to put up worse stats then last year when he threw 23 touchdowns to 20 picks .  he might throw 15 touch downs to 20 picks with 3 thousand yards passing

If Rivers has played poorly in all 5 games, how did this team have a 3 game wins streak before today?

[coming on strong]

Just now, Lancer1 said:

If Rivers has played poorly in all 5 games, how did this team have a 3 game wins streak before today?

the colts had the best defense in the league in every stat in those 3 games held bears to 3 points before the last minute in a prevent defense . held the jets to 7 points while scoring 16 points on defense .  holding the vikings to 11 points  and taylor running for 130 yards .

[coming on strong]

1 minute ago, Lancer1 said:

If Rivers has played poorly in all 5 games, how did this team have a 3 game wins streak before today?

i can ask the same thing of the 2015 broncos if manning played bad how did they win the superbowl ?  how did the 2000 ravens win the super bowl if trent dilfer is bad?

[ojsglove]

2 minutes ago, Lancer1 said:

If Rivers has played poorly in all 5 games, how did this team have a 3 game wins streak before today?

DEFENSE