How long should River leash be? (merge)

[EastStreet]

Just now, Grigson's Gaffes said:

Yeah Fromm basically regressed during his tenure at Georgia and I’ve heard troubling things about him off the field as well. He’s limited in his physical abilities and has admitted he was never a fan of pro football much. For the record, I think Fromm is a future XFL player. Eason has the better tools, he’s gotta find a way to make it work in the NFL though.

Fromm didn't really regress. He never was more than a game manager. He was a safe pick to be a game manager with UGA's good 
D, and good running game. UGA is now changing their O style to be more dynamic in the passing game. 

[Smoke317]

59 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I've been to probably over 100 college games in my life. Had season tix to ND for many years, UT season tix for about 5 years, have gone to 5+ UGA games probably closer to 10, 5+ GT games, a few Clemson games, a few FSU games, and several others 1x. I follow ND extremely close, close enough to name their depth chart and 2021 recruiting commits. I follow UT pretty close as well. I probably no more about UGA than some UGA fans simply because a few of my best friends are UGA fans. I saw Eason play twice in 2016 between the hedges, and watched UGA almost every week as long as they are not playing at the same time as ND. Full disclosure, I don't remember a ton about Eason's play in 2016. One game I was with TN fans cheering for TN, and the other had to leave in the 2H for a concert.

 

As far as Kravitz, Keefer, and the rest of the talking heads are concerned, you can't use them conveniently, or only when it fits your narrative. 

As a Notre Dame fan, do you think Ballard is or will regret taking Pittman over Claypool?  Some (me included) wanted Chase to be our pick.  I think we could have taken Taylor with 34 & still gotten Claypool later without having to trade up.

[crazycolt1]

6 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

@NannyMcafee  @Lucky Colts Fan  @Lancer1  @EastStreet @DontEverGiveUp @crazycolt1 

 

 

how you like me now?

Comparing him to Brady and Mahomes is like https://giphy.com/gifs/dumb-*-i-feel-KBaxHrT7rkeW5ma77z

[JPFolks]

6 hours ago, CaptainColt12 said:

Please don't make me watch Jacoby Brissett play again. I'd rather see Rivers throw 5 picks a game than fall asleep watching Brissett dink and dunk his way to an 8-8 record and an uneventful 16th overall pick. 

First, how is Rivers throwing it downfield? Second, what in the world makes you think we're finishing 9-7 or better? The defense is going to get crushed by teams with better passing games (Mayfield has world class receivers and running backs and clearly a better o-line, but he's pretty average).  Pitt, Baltimore even the Raiders look far superior to our team.  Green Bay will crush us.  Detroit has a superior passer and very solid receiver.  TN has a well rounded team, though I do think we're comparable due to our run defense which is really the only thing excellent about our team right now, though it was clear when it really mattered at the end of the game, the Brown's O-Line was superior to our D-Line.  And we rarely got pressure on Mayfield.  Only after EONS of time did we finally put pressure after sometimes 5-6 or more seconds of scanning the field.  

 

I picked "other" because until Reich trusts Rivers enough to extend the passing game, we don't really know how bad Rivers is.  The play calling, short of the first drive, was once again tepid, and it sure appears that Reich is calling the only plays he thinks Rivers can throw.  

 

Our O line has once and for all dismissed any notion that their vaunted status as "perhaps the best oline u=in the NFL."  is false. I think they are the most over-rated unit in the NFL this year and in many years prior.  I wouldn't even rank us as average.  And Nelson has been a major disappointment compared to the accolades which are frankly absurd.  Didn't he rank near the top in the NFL best overall players list? His penalties alone show he isn't elite.  Elite lineman don't kill drives.  The Colt's line holds at twice the league average.  That is NOT elite.  Not even close.  And Phil gets rid of the ball much faster than any other option we have (though his limited mobility negates it for the most part.) Because of our sub par lineplay, Rivers is our only choice, unless the yet to be seen Eason is the second coming of Mahommes. I won't hold my breath. 

 

What I don't get at all is why anyone think this team could be relevent in the post season? We played one team with a winning record and lost to them. The only reason we were in the game is our Defense and their 30th ranked Defense. If you took their star pass rusher away, they'd likely have the 32nd ranked D. 

 

 

[jszfunk]

Rivers , from what appears to be, in crunch time cant get it done. He seems to force passes and bad decisions. 

Whenever the starting QB is struggling, the backup is always the most popular. Sorry folks , but JB is not the answer. He had plenty of chances last year to prove his worth. Others mention Can Newton, I'll pass on him.

 Not much you really can do at this point with the QB  spot. Just don't get behind and have to come from behind . It's they're only hope unless PR  can show us better at those times.

 

The Colts best chances to win are with Rivers at this point. If he can't get it done , it's time to get Eason ready and give him a look.

[lollygagger8]

Well at least it's only a one year contract. 

 

 

[Patrick Miller]

I think Rivers could really use another legit wr. After Hilton it drops off quite a bit. When is Campbell suppose to return?

[coming on strong]

26 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

I think Rivers could really use another legit wr. After Hilton it drops off quite a bit. When is Campbell suppose to return?

Didnt rivers have two pro bowl wr last year a

[Mr.Debonair]

27 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

I think Rivers could really use another legit wr. After Hilton it drops off quite a bit. When is Campbell suppose to return?

Having Allen and Williams didn't elevate his game much at this point in his career. Campbell is on the sideline too much to be called a legit WR. It sucks to watch guys like DK Metcalf and AJ Brown (last year) put up great numbers in their first and second years knowing they could have been had

[Patrick Miller]

4 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

Didnt rivers have two pro bowl wr last year a

Maybe he did. How was his Oline there?

[coming on strong]

5 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

Maybe he did. How was his Oline there?

Bad ,but I don't think it matters . Rivers is what he is at this age . He is a game manager who can make a big play or two a game and throws alot of picks.  We are stuck with him I know how frank is he won't bench him. 

[Patrick Miller]

1 minute ago, coming on strong said:

Bad ,but I don't think it matters . Rivers is what he is at this age . He is a game manager who can make a big play or two a game and throws alot of picks.  We are stuck with him I know how frank is he won't bench him. 

Yeah I agree. I hope Eason gets some playtime this year.

[Fluke_33]

9 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

I would’ve agreed with you until today’s game.  I think that Rivers may well be spent and we’d be a better team with Brissett under center.

 

But I wouldn’t vote to ditch him now.  He needs to come out and perform better next game.  If he continues to play this poorly, then Frank needs to cut bait and not wait until it’s too late to salvage the season.

That’s fair.  The safety is the most troubling incident to get over.  I don’t expect that from a veteran qb.  I still think we ride it out with him barring some crazy scenario or injury but having slept on it maybe this defense could win with a qb like jb who doesn’t turn it over often but doesn’t put up a lot of points either.  
 

Either way I’m in it til the end! Lol 

[a06cc]

At the moment it seems we wasted 25 million. It doesn’t matter if you have injuries. Guys were open yesterday. Instead he was forcing throws. He alone cost us that game. He also lacks mobility. No one can argue with me on it. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Fluke_33 said:

That’s fair.  The safety is the most troubling incident to get over.  I don’t expect that from a veteran qb.  I still think we ride it out with him barring some crazy scenario or injury but having slept on it maybe this defense could win with a qb like jb who doesn’t turn it over often but doesn’t put up a lot of points either.  
 

Either way I’m in it til the end! Lol 

Something to think about with Jacoby is we don’t have kicking issues this year. So maybe the games wouldn’t be as close.  If rivers isn’t putting up points and is turning it over we can get better from Jacoby.  We need to just keep drafting WR high and hope we eventually get one that won’t get injured.

[Indeee]

 

Rivers, for what it's worth is/was a huge mistake. Some of us knew this when it was originally reported that he was being considered back in FA and we did not want him here, while others were excited to have him, each opinion holds/held merit, now and then. 

 

 Rivers was a mistake along with not having any true skill position players. Something that a lot of us including myself was saying back in April. 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Having Allen and Williams didn't elevate his game much at this point in his career. Campbell is on the sideline too much to be called a legit WR. It sucks to watch guys like DK Metcalf and AJ Brown (last year) put up great numbers in their first and second years knowing they could have been had

You can’t predict injuries. As snake bitten as the colts are at WR they probably would of got injured also.

 

We need to win the next two games and then hopefully we can get Pittman back and the offense will get a little better.

 

We need to keep drafting WR high until we get a couple that won’t keep getting injured.

[1959Colts]

Bring back Chad Kelly!!!

[Mr.Debonair]

5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

You can’t predict injuries. As snake bitten as the colts are at WR they probably would of got injured also.

 

We need to win the next two games and then hopefully we can get Pittman back and the offense will get a little better.

 

We need to keep drafting WR high until we get a couple that won’t keep getting injured.

Doesn't change the fact that we aren't any better at the position.  Injuries or not. Add to the fact that, Banogu or whatever, is barely playing. 

[Indeee]

1 minute ago, 1959Colts said:

Bring back Chad Kelly!!!

Ha!! I won't go there my friend. You may already know how I feel about that subject. Sadly, I'm not sure, what seemed obvious to me will happen. I will keep my fingers crossed while not holding my breath. 

[Mitch Connors]

I guarantee nobody on this forum is a real NFL football expert. 

I guarantee nobody on this forum has true inside information.

I guarantee nobody on this forum has coached or played in the NFL.

I guarantee what is said on this forum is just an opinion and it'd be nice if we all accept the point of this forum is just that - to share opinions and be respectful about it. 

[Horseshoelife19]

20 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Bring back Chad Kelly!!!

I agree completely!!! Guaranteed he would be better than Rivers or Brissett, and a whole lot cheaper!!! How is it our fo can evaluate other positions so well and completely whiff on our QBs?

[BigO]

3 minutes ago, Horseshoelife19 said:

I agree completely!!! Guaranteed he would be better than Rivers or Brissett, and a whole lot cheaper!!! How is it our fo can evaluate other positions so well and completely whiff on our QBs?

I am not so sure they evaluate wide receivers too well either. We could have had D.K Metcalf and Chase Claypool instead of Campbell and Pittman. And as for Kelly at least he could scramble and run and the games would at least be more exciting to watch. Plus we would have saved 25 million!

[lollygagger8]

This is how I imagine you right now 

 

[hoosierhawk]

2 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

That’s fair.  The safety is the most troubling incident to get over.  I don’t expect that from a veteran qb.  I still think we ride it out with him barring some crazy scenario or injury but having slept on it maybe this defense could win with a qb like jb who doesn’t turn it over often but doesn’t put up a lot of points either.  
 

Either way I’m in it til the end! Lol 

I agree that the safety was bad but let's quickly look at what got us there;

First, Hines calls for a fair catch at the 4 yard line which is an absolute no, no. 

Second, Reich calls for a pass from the end zone rather than trying to run to get a little room. They flashed a stat on the screen around that time showing Rivers dropped back 18 times to pass in the game and was sacked once and hit 15 time so our protection was horrible.

Third, it was not a short pattern but there were 3 receivers 10+yards down the field and the receiver who was heading for the left sidelines appeared to slow up and if he were to continue his route it may not have been a safety. If Rivers was to hold onto the ball another second or so it would have been a safety anyway.

I think there was some fault to spread around on that play. It surely added to my frustration of Reich's play calling which I feel was bad throughout the game. Just my opinion.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

50 minutes ago, BigO said:

I am not so sure they evaluate wide receivers too well either. We could have had D.K Metcalf and Chase Claypool instead of Campbell and Pittman. And as for Kelly at least he could scramble and run and the games would at least be more exciting to watch. Plus we would have saved 25 million!

THis is kind of a silly comment. We have no clue what Paris would be doing if not injured. Metkalf has the injury concerns going into the draft. We are just horribly snake bitten with WR injuries. We will see how Pittman develops after he comes back. This also comes back to Reich not using his talent correctly.

[shasta519]

7 hours ago, JPFolks said:

First, how is Rivers throwing it downfield? Second, what in the world makes you think we're finishing 9-7 or better? The defense is going to get crushed by teams with better passing games (Mayfield has world class receivers and running backs and clearly a better o-line, but he's pretty average).  Pitt, Baltimore even the Raiders look far superior to our team.  Green Bay will crush us.  Detroit has a superior passer and very solid receiver.  TN has a well rounded team, though I do think we're comparable due to our run defense which is really the only thing excellent about our team right now, though it was clear when it really mattered at the end of the game, the Brown's O-Line was superior to our D-Line.  And we rarely got pressure on Mayfield.  Only after EONS of time did we finally put pressure after sometimes 5-6 or more seconds of scanning the field.  

 

I picked "other" because until Reich trusts Rivers enough to extend the passing game, we don't really know how bad Rivers is.  The play calling, short of the first drive, was once again tepid, and it sure appears that Reich is calling the only plays he thinks Rivers can throw.  

 

Our O line has once and for all dismissed any notion that their vaunted status as "perhaps the best oline u=in the NFL."  is false. I think they are the most over-rated unit in the NFL this year and in many years prior.  I wouldn't even rank us as average.  And Nelson has been a major disappointment compared to the accolades which are frankly absurd.  Didn't he rank near the top in the NFL best overall players list? His penalties alone show he isn't elite.  Elite lineman don't kill drives.  The Colt's line holds at twice the league average.  That is NOT elite.  Not even close.  And Phil gets rid of the ball much faster than any other option we have (though his limited mobility negates it for the most part.) Because of our sub par lineplay, Rivers is our only choice, unless the yet to be seen Eason is the second coming of Mahommes. I won't hold my breath. 

 

What I don't get at all is why anyone think this team could be relevent in the post season? We played one team with a winning record and lost to them. The only reason we were in the game is our Defense and their 30th ranked Defense. If you took their star pass rusher away, they'd likely have the 32nd ranked D. 

 

 

 

Regarding the OL...I wouldn't call them the most overrated unit...but perhaps a bit overrated at times.

 

All OLs hold...and the Colts are no different. In 2018...the Colts were #1 in OL holding penalties. But they were also #2 in Adjusted Sack Rate and #4 in Adjusted Line Yards for RBs...which would imply they were likely holding much more than that. But overall...their overall performance outweighed the penalties.

 

Then last year...they were bottom 5...with 13 less holding penalties (Colts were last in all penalties against). I don't know if it was a concerted effort by the coaching staff...or improving form...or just variance from the refs. Either way...they did regress a bit from 2018...as they were #12 in both Adjusted Sack Rate and Adjusted Line Yards for RBs. But with less penalties...the regression was sort of balanced out.

 

But this year...the OL holding penalties are back (they are second in the league.)...except the Colts are near the bottom of the league in both Adjusted Sack Rate and Adjusted Line Yards for RBs (#28 for both).

 

That is at least concerning...especially for an OL that is about to get very expensive to maintain (likely the most expensive in the NFL). The run defense has been probably the most disappointing part so far.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Indeee said:

 

Rivers, for what it's worth is/was a huge mistake. Some of us knew this when it was originally reported that he was being considered back in FA and we did not want him here, while others were excited to have him, each opinion holds/held merit, now and then. 

 

 Rivers was a mistake along with not having any true skill position players. Something that a lot of us including myself was saying back in April. 

 

 

 

JB was not an option...so the decision to bring in a vet replacement for JB was a necessary one...and Rivers and Foles were the most logical choices...given their familiarity with Reich. So the logic was sound. 

 

I agree...regarding not having the skill position players. But that is a larger issue overall...that might include talent evaluation.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

15 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

@NannyMcafee  @Lucky Colts Fan  @Lancer1  @EastStreet @DontEverGiveUp @crazycolt1 

 

 

how you like me now?

 

HAHAHAHAHA!!!  You mentioned me in not one, but two threads... you've just been waiting for a bad game from Rivers to get back at me, haven't you?    (just curious, are you the angry short redhead or the cross-dressing bunny in the above scenario?  )

 

Well, you got your wish, Rivers had two bad throws for picks, so now you can go back to trashing him if you want.  But that's really your only leg to stand on, 2 bad decisions.  The safety was going to be a safety whether he threw it or not, so why not throw it and hope the refs let it slide?

 

Rivers was pressured all day by a good defensive front led by Myles Garrett without his starting LT to protect his blindside.  And if you watched the game, you could see that his throws still have ZIP.  

 

But I will give you this:  Rivers is past his prime, and if he keeps making bad decisions under pressure, we will probably look back and say we over-invested in him this year.  

 

PS:  Are you happy about this?  Because your "See? I was right!" posts are not a good look.  It seems like you'd rather be right about Rivers after a Colts loss than see him do well in a Colts win...  

[Lucky Colts Fan]

10 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

As a Notre Dame fan, do you think Ballard is or will regret taking Pittman over Claypool?  Some (me included) wanted Chase to be our pick.  I think we could have taken Taylor with 34 & still gotten Claypool later without having to trade up.

 

I wanted Claypool back then, and after yesterday, I really REALLY wish we had taken Claypool instead of Pittman.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I wanted Claypool back then, and after yesterday, I really REALLY wish we had taken Claypool instead of Pittman.  

These kind of comments are silly. You can’t look back when one gets injured.  Claypool would probably be injures if he was a colt.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

These kind of comments are silly.

 

That's rich, coming from you.

 

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

You can’t look back when one gets injured.  Claypool would probably be injures if he was a colt.

 

What?  That makes no sense.  Would Pittman have had 4 TDs yesterday if he was a Steeler?  Doubt it.

[Edgar]

Colts should start Jacob Eason he has a good arm and will be a upgrade to Brissett and rivers. Defense needs to blitz more put more pressure instead of allowing the qb time to read his options

[Lucky Colts Fan]

11 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

I mean, but I was right. What else can I say.

 

Ugh.  Posts like this...

 

You and @Grigson's Gaffes should start a club...

 

I hope the Colts win out just for the simple fact that I won't have to see anymore "I was right!" posts from you two after a loss...  it's the most obnoxious thing a person can do on a forum like this.  

[danlhart87]

16 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

I wish he wasn’t here at all. 4 TDs in 5 games is awfulllll. He might be more immobile than Brady at this point in their career. 
 

He can’t even throw the ball 30 yards with zip on it! I truly don’t understand why he was brought here.

 

His mistakes have costed us two games thus far 

Brissett threw 4 td 3 int last 9 games in 19 but some of you want Brissett back in 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 hours ago, Indeee said:

 

Rivers, for what it's worth is/was a huge mistake. Some of us knew this when it was originally reported that he was being considered back in FA and we did not want him here, while others were excited to have him, each opinion holds/held merit, now and then. 

 

 Rivers was a mistake along with not having any true skill position players. Something that a lot of us including myself was saying back in April. 

 

 

We upgraded skill positions and Campbell was looking great. We are just snakebitten with WR injuries. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

37 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

That's rich, coming from you.

 

 

What?  That makes no sense.  Would Pittman have had 4 TDs yesterday if he was a Steeler?  Doubt it.

Your trying to prove a point that can’t be prove. That is a hypothetical.

[Patagonia Chris]

44 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

HAHAHAHAHA!!!  You mentioned me in not one, but two threads... you've just been waiting for a bad game from Rivers to get back at me, haven't you?    (just curious, are you the angry short redhead or the cross-dressing bunny in the above scenario?  )

 

Well, you got your wish, Rivers had two bad throws for picks, so now you can go back to trashing him if you want.  But that's really your only leg to stand on, 2 bad decisions.  The safety was going to be a safety whether he threw it or not, so why not throw it and hope the refs let it slide?

 

Rivers was pressured all day by a good defensive front led by Myles Garrett without his starting LT to protect his blindside.  And if you watched the game, you could see that his throws still have ZIP.  

 

But I will give you this:  Rivers is past his prime, and if he keeps making bad decisions under pressure, we will probably look back and say we over-invested in him this year.  

 

PS:  Are you happy about this?  Because your "See? I was right!" posts are not a good look.  It seems like you'd rather be right about Rivers after a Colts loss than see him do well in a Colts win...  

 

The bunny doesn’t have clothes on? No, I just want people to admit I was right when they told me how stupid I was weeks ago. He had a lot more than 2 bad throws. He had the one on the sideline in the end zone that he threw behind the receiver that should have been picked as well. I watched about 6 different games yesterday for their entirety. Your the only person left saying his throws still have zip. I didn’t have to wait very long, Rivers has played well against the Jets and the Bears, okay versus the Vikings and awful against the Jaguars and Browns. 

[Indeee]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

We upgraded skill positions and Campbell was looking great. We are just snakebitten with WR injuries. 

On the surface it looked that way, but it was fools gold. We selected campbell who might have been selected based on what he could potentially do in terms of scheme, however he had an injury history with him, which he has now had continue for a couple years since being selected. Pittman? This guy might have good hands, but he wasn't billed as a playmaker, just solid, maybe dependable and even though his sample was small before injury, he didn't seem like a guy that is ever going to make a true difference in the NFL where as to separate himself from the jag pack. This is the issue and it has been for years now. Flashes here and there does not equate to what we really need being long term consistency in play making ability. I still beleieve the colts should trade for Gallup. i said it last week.  Gallup is a stud being underused and not really needed in Dallas. That would be a huge start imo

[Lucky Colts Fan]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Your trying to prove a point that can’t be prove. That is a hypothetical.

 

I'm not trying to prove anything.

 

I just gave my opinion that I wish we had Claypool instead of Pittman.

 

You threw out the hypothetical that Claypool would probably be injured if he was a Colt...