What's up with the OL run blocking?

[compuls1v3 517]

10 hours ago, Hoose said:

Sorry. The run game is so frickin obvious.  Reich is supposed to be a sophisticated play caller. But if we can predict what he’s calling, so can every two bit D coordinator. So the question is.... will Frank get creative or not. He continues to  make some horrible calls every week. Here it comes.... see if you can stop it. Well, Frank, they’re stopping it. Pleeeze, pass the frickin ball more often which will set up the run. Please. 

Frank knows this is the first quarter, and he doesn't have to show all his cards up front to win games.  You heard it here first!!! (that's the only thing that makes any sense to me anyways).  He proved Taylor can handle a 100 yard game, so he knows what he has in him.  Just playing it safe to beat the play off contender teams (I hope).

[Myles 3,914]

Looks like we all agree that Reich's play calling has not been good.  

Many times it is just confusing.  

Only throwing the ball to Cox twice confuses me.  

[NannyMcafee 1,617]

I dont want Frank fired or anything. I still think he's a top 10 HC in this NFL. But his play calling is suspect at times every game, like running hines so much. I think that a part of him running hines is so that teams don't KNOW without a doubt that hines will be just a catching scat back. Must be an effort to disguise what we do with hines. 

 

Not so long ago, hines came in only on passing downs. Made it super easy on defenses to know what hines is doing. 

 

Either way, it seems we don't know how to utilize hines. 

[Four2itus 4,685]

1 hour ago, compuls1v3 said:

Frank knows this is the first quarter, and he doesn't have to show all his cards up front to win games.  You heard it here first!!! (that's the only thing that makes any sense to me anyways).  He proved Taylor can handle a 100 yard game, so he knows what he has in him.  Just playing it safe to beat the play off contender teams (I hope).

Yes, but it is also true that we need at least a few plays each game to catch them unmanned in the back 7. Our deep passing game was been the Colts hallmark for a looooong time. It is the least threatening part right now. Some of it's personnel, some of it's the QB, and some of it's just what you mentioned. 

[shasta519 2,621]

It sort of seems like Reich has treated this first quarter as an extended form or preseason...as it pertains to the playcalling. That makes sense...given the new QB and quality of opponents.

 

But he's going to need to open it up. Forcing targets to Burton...and giving ~10 touches to Hines and Wilkins...doesn't seem like the way to score a lot of points going forward.

[indyagent17 776]

I think it is coaching to a large degree because we tend to go for deeper shots when we should be working the underneath game better. Don’t Get me wrong I love the deep bowl from time to time he keeps defenses honest but when it comes to working on there side of the 50 We sputter out too often and have to go for field goals. I truly think this can be corrected because we have to have better efficiency in the red zone than we have now

[Fisticuffs111 1,952]

Hines would *sometimes* have success in runs out of shotgun after Mack had been tearing up the opposing defense. Mack also did well out of shotgun. 

 

Problem is, Mack’s out. And of course, multiple WR’s. One of whom, Parris, probably would’e been featured heavily. To me, it seems like Reich/Sirianni are really having trouble adjusting to these injuries. And, especially yesterday, sometimes it seems like they’re trying to force certain players to get going with negative effects (Burton and Pascal to a certain degree). Not to mention, going away from guys who had been doing well (Mo, Taylor).

[atapcl 58]

13 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think they suffer from Brissettitis. Whats that u say? A qb who lacks skill at the wr posittion. Pascal is our #2 and he is at best a #4. Teams r attacking Rivers as he is a statue. The Colts passing game is not taking any pressure off the run game. The O linr is constantly being pressured.  I think the Bears have 4  1st rounders playing linebacker. They have talent and the O line is up against it. Much like last year actually. Expect to see this, as we have little talent at the wr postion.

I think you are spot on. We need a playmaker at wr. I’m 68 years old and I can probably move faster than Rivers.

We have got to scheme better to help our OL.

[Indyfan4life 780]

I think part of the problem is we didn't expect Campbell and Pittman to both go down, the same for Mack. So instead of changing things up that could work better for Taylor and Hines, we're sticking with what they originally wanted to do, and it just isn't working as intended.

[BProland85 1,245]

44 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

It sort of seems like Reich has treated this first quarter as an extended form or preseason...as it pertains to the playcalling. That makes sense...given the new QB and quality of opponents.

 

But he's going to need to open it up. Forcing targets to Burton...and giving ~10 touches to Hines and Wilkins...doesn't seem like the way to score a lot of points going forward.

 

I sure hope that's the case cause his play calling has definitely been suspect at times, especially in the red zone. 

[shasta519 2,621]

2 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

I sure hope that's the case cause his play calling has definitely been suspect at times, especially in the red zone. 

 

It just feels that way at times. Very vanilla. Then again...Reich's offense in the 2nd half of last season was pretty vanilla as well. So who knows. 

 

He has lost some players that past two years...and to be fair...both JB and Rivers limit the playbook in their own regards. But the Colts definitely need to get better playcalling and better on offense. Right now...they are middle of the pack in passing and bottom 3rd in running...and that's with an elite OL. Rivers has played pretty well too...so I think it goes back to playcalling.

 

 

[Nickster 767]

14 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Bears sold out a lot vs our run. We didn't adjust. 

Taylor still had 4.0 even with the selling out.

Reich needs to make it easier on the OL. Hit the edge more, don't be so predictable, run some power/man blocking.

And of course, the easy one, less Hines up the gut.

There was no need to "adjust" we were winning the game by double digits the whole 2nd half with little to no threat from Chicago,  so it would have been pretty silly to open up the passing game at that point.  That was a good defense out there.  Very talented.

 

 

 

We aren't going to be getting to the edge much with the current stable of RBs.

 

I think PR has been really good outside the 2 bonehead INTS in JAX.  

[Boondoggle 73]

That win may not have been pretty but it's the kind of win that happens a lot in the playoffs.  Being able to control the game even if you're not lighting up the scoreboard is extremely valuable.  The Bears have a good defense, a very strong front seven with speed and the Colts weren't their full selves but controlled the game and took home the W.

 

Rivers isn't going to provide QB play of the level you need for a top 3 defense.  But let him do his thing behind a good line and run game and he can get you through games like that.  Taylor did have 4 ypc vs the Bears.  And Taylor is going to start busting big runs behind this line it's a matter of time.

 

Best thing about this team right now is how the defense is playing.  Colts look to me like a solid playoff contender and there's a lot of fans of other teams that would kill for that right now.  

[compuls1v3 517]

7 hours ago, shasta519 said:

It sort of seems like Reich has treated this first quarter as an extended form or preseason...as it pertains to the playcalling. That makes sense...given the new QB and quality of opponents.

 

But he's going to need to open it up. Forcing targets to Burton...and giving ~10 touches to Hines and Wilkins...doesn't seem like the way to score a lot of points going forward.

Well stated.

[Bolts2Colts 284]

19 hours ago, John Waylon said:

I do think part of it has to do with defenses now being more willing to sell out on the run against us. We don’t have an Andrew Luck under center anymore that they just can’t do that with. 

Inside the 40, our running efficiency is fourth WORST in the league, while passing efficiency is third BEST. 
 

You say Rivers hurts the running game, but if anything it’s the other way around. 

[superrep1967 516]

It’s the play calling we’re not fooling anyone the run plays are very predictable. I know it when we are going  run. So I know the Bears did and the Bears have a very good front seven. 

[EastStreet 8,575]

6 hours ago, Nickster said:

There was no need to "adjust" we were winning the game by double digits the whole 2nd half with little to no threat from Chicago,  so it would have been pretty silly to open up the passing game at that point.  That was a good defense out there.  Very talented.

Adjustments don't just mean going air raid. Doesn't even mean throwing more. 

6 hours ago, Nickster said:

We aren't going to be getting to the edge much with the current stable of RBs.

Wut? Hines can hit the edge. JT was know for his edge running in college, and certainly has the speed to do it. And a little misdirection every once in a while doesn't hurt. 

6 hours ago, Nickster said:

I think PR has been really good outside the 2 bonehead INTS in JAX.  

yup

[Nickster 767]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Adjustments don't just mean going air raid. Doesn't even mean throwing more. 

Wut? Hines can hit the edge. JT was know for his edge running in college, and certainly has the speed to do it. And a little misdirection every once in a while doesn't hurt. 

yup

Running to the edge in the Cornfields of Wisconsin and Iowa is different than doing the same thing in the league.  It appears that the staff are not confident he can make the edge beecause they haven’t called his number on it for a while.  His straight burst speed doesn’t necessarily translate in to sticking the foot in the ground to bounce to the edge then sticking the other foot in the ground and cutting it up.  IMO this will continue to become self evident.  Maybe later he evolves but right now today he’s very limited in the kinds of plays that he’s going to be routinely successful running.

 

Well misdirection?  You are advocating for a more power running scheme I think.  Running downhill seems pretty obviously JTs best trait.  Do you want them to try jet sweeps and deep motion crap?  Most misdirection runs involve. Jab steps and a start and stop from The running back which is nit necessarily something JT can do well or has ever done well since he took almost every carry for Wisco right down BroDway.

 

 

[Chucklez 304]

On 10/5/2020 at 4:47 AM, Moosejawcolt said:

I dont think we have enough offensively to keep up with thrm

I know the Ravens D is good, but so is ours... the Browns put up 6 points on the Ravens. We should be able to hold them to a reasonable number.... Yeah they put 49 up on the Cowboys, but the Cowboys defence stinks, and their offense woke up from the dead and decided to score 24 points on the Browns...... in the 4th quarter alone. We will have our opportunities to score.

[Nickster 767]

22 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

I know the Ravens D is good, but so is ours... the Browns put up 6 points on the Ravens. We should be able to hold them to a reasonable number.... Yeah they put 49 up on the Cowboys, but the Cowboys defence stinks, and their offense woke up from the dead and decided to score 24 points on the Browns...... in the 4th quarter alone. We will have our opportunities to score.

 

We might be able to hold the Raves to a decent number.  Probably need to have Leonard and the linebacking corps to do so.  It will be interesting to see how we deal with Jackson.  If we can keep him contained at all, I think we could have a good showing.  By the same token if our guys can't slow him up, it will be rough.

[#12. 1,004]

With how this team set up, you can win with Rivers, but he has to accept being a game manager at times, and on top of that, in game, Frank has to manage Rivers a little better.  In a slugfest, you had far too many pass plays  with a high degree of difficulty on Sunday.  The INTs were there, Mack dropped one, we were bailed out on the other, and I'm  not sure I love jump balls to TY.  I know it worked, but in the future some of these passes, some of the jump balls will start going the other way.  That's how a game turns on a dime, like in Jacksonville.

[OffensivelyPC 1,093]

On 10/4/2020 at 11:10 PM, EastStreet said:

Bears sold out a lot vs our run. We didn't adjust. 

Taylor still had 4.0 even with the selling out.

Reich needs to make it easier on the OL. Hit the edge more, don't be so predictable, run some power/man blocking.

And of course, the easy one, less Hines up the gut.

I wonder why we try Hines up the middle so much.  Really, the only thing I can think of is to strategically set up something else.  Maybe an outside run or screen pass.  It'd be tough to get anyone to think that we're not running a screen if every time Hines went up the middle it resulted in a screen pass.  Can't telegraph our punches.  Still, running up the gut in the goal line with Hines just never really has a good look to it.  Maybe in Hines' career he's had a TD up the middle, but I can't remember one.

[aaron11 1,638]

37 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I wonder why we try Hines up the middle so much.  Really, the only thing I can think of is to  Maybe in Hines' career he's had a TD up the middle, but I can't remember one.

he did vs the jaguars.  wasnt on the goal line but from the 12, i think he ran between guard and center 

[John Waylon 1,625]

23 hours ago, Bolts2Colts said:

Inside the 40, our running efficiency is fourth WORST in the league, while passing efficiency is third BEST. 
 

You say Rivers hurts the running game, but if anything it’s the other way around. 

No one is afraid to stack the box against Rivers. And they never have been. 
 

How many teams were ballsy enough to stack the box agains Peyton Manning? Or Andrew Luck? 
 

Likewise defenses are a lot more willing to let Rivers throw on them than they are to let us get our running game rolling. 
 

Defenses don’t want us to run the ball, and we don’t have a QB who can burn them for that enough to force them not to play us that way. 
 

So yeah, our running efficiency is down. Because they can get away with forcing that. 
 

I really don’t have much interest in hearing about Rivers passing efficiency when we can’t convert on 3rd down or in the red zone the way we struggle. Especially with defenses selling out to stop the run. 

[LJpalmbeacher2 1,597]

We heard Reich was going to be a excellent playcaller with a innovative play book. Well......it hasn't materialized.  And his on field decision making has been questionable also. 

 

I'm not saying fire him or put him on the Hot Seat but so far he hasn't been as advertised. 

[John Waylon 1,625]

33 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

We heard Reich was going to be a excellent playcaller with a innovative play book. Well......it hasn't materialized.  And his on field decision making has been questionable also. 

 

I'm not saying fire him or put him on the Hot Seat but so far he hasn't been as advertised. 

I’m in the same boat. I’m not mad yet, but the newness has worn off and the flaws are starting to show. 

[2006Coltsbestever 21,068]

The way some people post you would think we were 1-3 not 3-1. Typical Colts forum though, never a dull moment with a few. 

[crazycolt1 6,985]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The way some people post you would think we were 1-3 not 3-1. Typical Colts forum though, never a dull moment with a few. 

 

There are way too many who whine and cry over anything and everything.

The whole country has tuned that way so it don't came as a surprise. 

 

[EastStreet 8,575]

14 hours ago, Nickster said:

Running to the edge in the Cornfields of Wisconsin and Iowa is different than doing the same thing in the league.  It appears that the staff are not confident he can make the edge beecause they haven’t called his number on it for a while.  His straight burst speed doesn’t necessarily translate in to sticking the foot in the ground to bounce to the edge then sticking the other foot in the ground and cutting it up.  IMO this will continue to become self evident.  Maybe later he evolves but right now today he’s very limited in the kinds of plays that he’s going to be routinely successful running.

 

Well misdirection?  You are advocating for a more power running scheme I think.  Running downhill seems pretty obviously JTs best trait.  Do you want them to try jet sweeps and deep motion crap?  Most misdirection runs involve. Jab steps and a start and stop from The running back which is nit necessarily something JT can do well or has ever done well since he took almost every carry for Wisco right down BroDway.

Given the #s he put up on a consistent basis in a P5 league known for D, is enough for me, and obviously was enough for Ballard. He put up ~150 and 7+AVG vs OSU in the B10 championship last year. In short, you're overreacting this early, and I understand hot takes are part of your typical narrative.

 

As far as the edge is concerned, I really doubt lacking confidence in JT is the reason why they are not hitting the edge. We didn't do that with Mack either. JT's history however has shown a lot of success in hitting the edge. Reich's history has however has not shown a lot of creativity when it comes to play calling (especially in the run game). He didn't call plays in Philly, and was ranked near the bottom if not the bottom in rushing when calling plays in LA.

 

On misdirection, talking primarily about Hines. There's plenty of misdirection type plays.

[EastStreet 8,575]

10 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I wonder why we try Hines up the middle so much.  Really, the only thing I can think of is to strategically set up something else.  Maybe an outside run or screen pass.  It'd be tough to get anyone to think that we're not running a screen if every time Hines went up the middle it resulted in a screen pass.  Can't telegraph our punches.  Still, running up the gut in the goal line with Hines just never really has a good look to it.  Maybe in Hines' career he's had a TD up the middle, but I can't remember one.

I think it's just Reich being stubborn to be honest. He's said on a few occasions he sees Hines as a 3 down back, not an APB or satellite guy. I don't mind the occasional up the gut run by Hines to keep teams honest, but to do it in the RZ is pretty silly.

[Nickster 767]

41 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Given the #s he put up on a consistent basis in a P5 league known for D, is enough for me, and obviously was enough for Ballard. He put up ~150 and 7+AVG vs OSU in the B10 championship last year. In short, you're overreacting this early, and I understand hot takes are part of your typical narrative.

 

As far as the edge is concerned, I really doubt lacking confidence in JT is the reason why they are not hitting the edge. We didn't do that with Mack either. JT's history however has shown a lot of success in hitting the edge. Reich's history has however has not shown a lot of creativity when it comes to play calling (especially in the run game). He didn't call plays in Philly, and was ranked near the bottom if not the bottom in rushing when calling plays in LA.

 

On misdirection, talking primarily about Hines. There's plenty of misdirection type plays.

Man you just couldn’t be more wrong about Mack hitting the edge.  Just watch a cut up of just about any game of his.

[Bolts2Colts 284]

3 hours ago, John Waylon said:

No one is afraid to stack the box against Rivers. And they never have been. 
 

How many teams were ballsy enough to stack the box agains Peyton Manning? Or Andrew Luck? 
 

Likewise defenses are a lot more willing to let Rivers throw on them than they are to let us get our running game rolling. 
 

Defenses don’t want us to run the ball, and we don’t have a QB who can burn them for that enough to force them not to play us that way. 
 

So yeah, our running efficiency is down. Because they can get away with forcing that. 
 

I really don’t have much interest in hearing about Rivers passing efficiency when we can’t convert on 3rd down or in the red zone the way we struggle. Especially with defenses selling out to stop the run. 

How come the running game was so much more successful last year? Was everyone afraid to stack the box against Jacoby?  

[EastStreet 8,575]

48 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Man you just couldn’t be more wrong about Mack hitting the edge.  Just watch a cut up of just about any game of his.

"hitting" the edge, and zone runs over the tackle and bouncing out are two different things. Even Taylor is getting those types of carries. Funny thing is, Hines is rarely even getting those.

[Bolts2Colts 284]

5 hours ago, John Waylon said:

I really don’t have much interest in hearing about Rivers passing efficiency when we can’t convert on 3rd down or in the red zone the way we struggle. Especially with defenses selling out to stop the run. 

Rivers on 3rd down vs Bears elite D:

9-14, 118 yards, 114.6 QB rating, 1 sack. 
 

I have a feeling the Colts game plan will involve more deep passes than we’ve seen so far. Unless of course our defense is shutting the Browns down. Then it will be back to Martyball. 

[Nickster 767]

6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

"hitting" the edge, and zone runs over the tackle and bouncing out are two different things. Even Taylor is getting those types of carries. Funny thing is, Hines is rarely even getting those.

Ok East. 

[Nickster 767]

11 hours ago, Bolts2Colts said:

Rivers on 3rd down vs Bears elite D:

9-14, 118 yards, 114.6 QB rating, 1 sack. 
 

I have a feeling the Colts game plan will involve more deep passes than we’ve seen so far. Unless of course our defense is shutting the Browns down. Then it will be back to Martyball. 

Those look like pretty good 3rd down numbers.

[Boondoggle 73]

The Colts didn't really try Chicago on the edges because of their speed at LB.  And I don't blame them.  It's better to run at a defense like that.

 

But on that 16 yard run Taylor had early 4th quarter if they had run that from the far hash it would have gone for six.  Guaranteed.  Only the short hash side saved the Bears there.  In fact you see Roquan Smith (who can flat move) take a very conservative angle just to get to him.  Watch how effortlessly JT pulls away around that edge it's something.

 

Defenses are going to see that play on film and be very concerned in their game preps.

[Boondoggle 73]

Oh and also if you watch Taylor's next run after that (which didn't go for much) you'll see him pass up a chance to just bulldoze the hole in favor of a cutback that wasn't any better.  To me it looks like he's trying to find the big hole which isn't gonna be there more often than not in the NFL.

 

Give him a little more time.  He's gonna start poppin them soon.

[Moosejawcolt 1,395]

On 10/6/2020 at 6:08 PM, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

We heard Reich was going to be a excellent playcaller with a innovative play book. Well......it hasn't materialized.  And his on field decision making has been questionable also. 

 

I'm not saying fire him or put him on the Hot Seat but so far he hasn't been as advertised. 

TY looking like his best days behind him.  Pascal is our #2. Rivers is an absolute statue. Teams r attacking the run. U say play calling but I think it has more to do with talent or lack of. This offense resembles the one Brissett guided last year. Funny how fans blamed him but with Rivers its the  calling. Hmmmmmm...

interesting!!!

[Bolts2Colts 284]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

TY looking like his best days behind him.  Pascal is our #2. Rivers is an absolute statue. Teams r attacking the run. U say play calling but I think it has more to do with talent or lack of. This offense resembles the one Brissett guided last year. Funny how fans blamed him but with Rivers its the  calling. Hmmmmmm...

interesting!!!

At this point, it’s basically the same offense other than a rookie RB and Rivers, and a hobbled Burton, right? 
 

So I wouldn’t expect it to be dramatically improved, other than that Rivers has a much better YPA and completion percentage than Jacoby did last year, which are the key metrics Reich is focused on.  
 

Perhaps the OL is playing with some injuries we don’t know about. Nelson doesn’t look like himself and his PFF ranking reflects it.