Time to stop calling the Colts a Cover 2 defense

[krunk]

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2020/10/2/21497914/colts-scouting-journal-time-to-stop-calling-the-colts-a-cover-2-defense

[EastStreet]

Thanks. I've mentioned a few time the varied looks we've seen the past two games.'

 

I'm very happy that they are starting to "mix it up". I'm however not happy we seem to going more complex with a C3, and C3 hybrid. I'd prefer some C1 mixed in as much as anything else. The C3, or C3/man hybrid is full of reads and handoffs. Unless your DBs are incredibly smart and disciplined, it's a recipe for disaster (we had way too many miscommunications and failed reads).

 

The C3 also still allows opponents to exploit the short stuff, as well as the seam just like C2. I'd prefer an article that says "time to stop calling the Colts D, Charmin soft"

 

Anyway, happy for new looks. Just hope it doesn't backfire.

[CR91]

20 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Thanks. I've mentioned a few time the varied looks we've seen the past two games.'

 

I'm very happy that they are starting to "mix it up". I'm however not happy we seem to going more complex with a C3, and C3 hybrid. I'd prefer some C1 mixed in as much as anything else. The C3, or C3/man hybrid is full of reads and handoffs. Unless your DBs are incredibly smart and disciplined, it's a recipe for disaster (we had way too many miscommunications and failed reads).

 

The C3 also still allows opponents to exploit the short stuff, as well as the seam just like C2. I'd prefer an article that says "time to stop calling the Colts D, Charmin soft"

 

Anyway, happy for new looks. Just hope it doesn't backfire.

 

Can't just play cover 1 all the time. That's a lot of pressure on the corners on man to man situations.

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Can't just play cover 1 all the time. That's a lot of pressure on the corners on man to man situations.

I've said I want a good mix. There's a time to play zone, and a time to play man. And even in zone, there's a time to play closer to the LOS, and a time to hang back.

 

In short, I don't want us to play C1 all the time. But I want to play Charmin soft C2 less.

[CR91]

29 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I've said I want a good mix. There's a time to play zone, and a time to play man. And even in zone, there's a time to play closer to the LOS, and a time to hang back.

 

In short, I don't want us to play C1 all the time. But I want to play Charmin soft C2 less.

 

Playing straight up cover 2 with no disguise is yes soft, but mixing coverages and disguising pre-snap to post-snap actually makes it a good defensive scheme.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Playing straight up cover 2 with no disguise is yes soft, but mixing coverages and disguising pre-snap to post-snap actually makes it a good defensive scheme.

Agreed. My only concern is now they might be getting too cute with the C3 and C3 hybrid stuff. Takes an awful lot of grey matter with all the reads and hand offs. Not sure, but wouldn't doubt if it's one of the reasons Oke has looked pretty bad in coverage.

[bestQBever]

Love it. So many zones I saw on those clip that I really didn't anticipate that guy being responsible for that route. Fooled me pre snap.

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, bestQBever said:

Love it. So many zones I saw on those clip that I really didn't anticipate that guy being responsible for that route. Fooled me pre snap.

I like the increased "looks", but in every one of those vids there is a last release guy wide open. Vids 1 and 3 especially. A good QB will hit those, and they'll go for extra yards. We were also blessed with good pressure for the most part in those examples.

[Superman]

58 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I've said I want a good mix. There's a time to play zone, and a time to play man. And even in zone, there's a time to play closer to the LOS, and a time to hang back.

 

In short, I don't want us to play C1 all the time. But I want to play Charmin soft C2 less.

 

If the defenders are engaged at the snap, pattern matching zone is functionally the same as man coverage, right? It looks the same pre-snap. As long as they aren't playing 5-7 yards off the line, I'm fine with it.

[Indyfan4life]

Just now, Superman said:

 

If the defenders are engaged at the snap, pattern matching zone is functionally the same as man coverage, right? It looks the same pre-snap. As long as they aren't playing 5-7 yards off the line, I'm fine with it.

I'm fine with the D doing whatever they need to if they just stop playing 5-7 off like you said. It drives me insane when I see that happening. Just asking for a slant or quick dump over the middle to a TE/RB.

[VaAllDay757]

I prefer the cover 3 scheme more it takes away the big plays we just need to get better at blitzes

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If the defenders are engaged at the snap, pattern matching zone is functionally the same as man coverage, right? It looks the same pre-snap. As long as they aren't playing 5-7 yards off the line, I'm fine with it.

Not really. There's still plenty of hand offs and zone like coverage. It's still vulnerable to short and seam throws (like the C2/T2). And it requires a lot of the LBs in coverage. And like I mentioned, Oke has really struggled (not saying it's all due to C3).

 

I'm all for a C3 hybrid being in the mix. Like I said though, I just want a good mix.

[RollerColt]

25 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

I'm fine with the D doing whatever they need to if they just stop playing 5-7 off like you said. It drives me insane when I see that happening. Just asking for a slant or quick dump over the middle to a TE/RB.

Playing off like that is a big component of the “bend don’t break” defense. Basically, prevent the big deep plays and allow short completions and hope the talent is able to make a play and turnover the ball or hold the offense to 3 points or less. 
 

This was essentially how we played the Jets, especially in the first half. We were allowing Darnold to March down with relatively little pushback. But then we’d stall their offense or make a great play for an interception. 
 

We’ll see how it works against Foles, who is much more accurate than Trubisky. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

I'm fine with the D doing whatever they need to if they just stop playing 5-7 off like you said. It drives me insane when I see that happening. Just asking for a slant or quick dump over the middle to a TE/RB.

 

There are situations where playing off makes sense. Especially in a single high look, otherwise you have no depth to your defense and one missed tackle goes for a long TD. So if the nickel plays off the slot in outside technique, you're funneling the receiver toward the LBers, where hopefully a quick tackle is made. 

 

But just playing with cushions as SOP, or a high percentage of snaps, yeah, you'll get cooked in coverage, and your pass rush won't have a chance to influence the QB. That's basically what happened in the opener, and us Colts fans have nightmares about games where we suffered death by a thousand paper cuts in that same manner. Like SB44  . 

 

These last two games, the defense is allowing something like 160 passing yards/game, and has forced six turnovers and two safeties. The execution has been a lot better than it was in the opener.

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Not really. There's still plenty of hand offs and zone like coverage. It's still vulnerable to short and seam throws (like the C2/T2). And it requires a lot of the LBs in coverage. And like I mentioned, Oke has really struggled (not saying it's all due to C3).

 

I'm all for a C3 hybrid being in the mix. Like I said though, I just want a good mix.

There have been some mistakes this year -- not sure, but Rhodes end zone pick looked like a busted coverage by someone -- but any defense that plays a lot of zone is going to need time to work out the kinks. At least the past two games, those mistakes haven't been costly. 

 

As for Okereke, we'll see how that goes. He still needs refinement, but because of his range he'll get a reasonably long leash from the coaching staff. 

[EastStreet]

Here's some good reads if you want to understand the C3 hybrid or match rip/liz,

 

 

https://www.patspulpit.com/2019/3/4/18234062/film-room-pattern-match-zone-rip-liz-cover-3-match-mable-nick-saban-cleveland-browns

 

https://blogs.usafootball.com/blog/5615/how-to-understand-nick-saban-s-pattern-match-cover-3-defense

 

https://matchquarters.com/tag/cover-3/

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

There have been some mistakes this year -- not sure, but Rhodes end zone pick looked like a busted coverage by someone -- but any defense that plays a lot of zone is going to need time to work out the kinks. At least the past two games, those mistakes haven't been costly. 

Yea, the Rhodes INT was interesting. From some angles though looked like he might have been simply watching the QBs eyes.

 

But it'll be interesting to see as we face better QBs. If you look at those 3 vids, especially 1 and 3, the late release pass catcher was super wide open (not really covered at all). A good QB with a good OL eats that up and it's 30-40 yard gain.

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

As for Okereke, we'll see how that goes. He still needs refinement, but because of his range he'll get a reasonably long leash from the coaching staff. 

It'll be interesting to follow. Oke struggles vs the run at MIKE big time. He's looked pretty awful in coverage at times so far this year. The only areas I've seen him excel last year, and so far this year, is attacking the outside run where he's not in a lot of traffic. I can see a competent QB picking on our seam big time. If I'm Foles, I'm going after Oke and Willis. Willis has shown some coverage improvement this year, but we also haven't really played a good QB either though.

[Superman]

17 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Yea, the Rhodes INT was interesting. From some angles though looked like he might have been simply watching the QBs eyes.

 

Usually the technique is obvious from replay. That Rhodes play, it didn't look like he was playing the right technique, but I could be wrong. 

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Usually the technique is obvious from replay. That Rhodes play, it didn't look like he was playing the right technique, but I could be wrong. 

definitely questionable.

I'll take it though lol.