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Well I thought it before I heard even analysts say it. His Pro Day was the first time I actually heard of anyone else saying. I know he is capable of launching the ball many yards. We know he can do that, but to me there seems no drive behind the ball.

I watched his pro day from start to finish, and heard comments about his throws looking effortless, not one about them being powerless. I commented on here about a couple passes looking short in the early going, but it was pointed out that he made a convincing adjustment after the first 2 balls. Steve Young was even commenting that the short looking balls were actually intentional (I have no way to confirm, that is just what I heard him say) because he was throwing as if a defender was on the field, and he was positioning the ball in the best place for only the receiver to have access to it, in some cases intentionally bringing the receiver back to get the ball. If it had been Dilfer saying it, I wouldn't trust it. But Steve Young has been an excellent QB in the NFL, and I trust what he is saying the job requires.

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I watched his pro day from start to finish, and heard comments about his throws looking effortless, not one about them being powerless. I commented on here about a couple passes looking short in the early going, but it was pointed out that he made a convincing adjustment after the first 2 balls. Steve Young was even commenting that the short looking balls were actually intentional (I have no way to confirm, that is just what I heard him say) because he was throwing as if a defender was on the field, and he was positioning the ball in the best place for only the receiver to have access to it, in some cases intentionally bringing the receiver back to get the ball. If it had been Dilfer saying it, I wouldn't trust it. But Steve Young has been an excellent QB in the NFL, and I trust what he is saying the job requires.

No doubt his Pro day looked good, but during the season I'm saying the balled seemed to lack power. That could just be me, or even how college seems. Although I've never noticed it before with another QB.

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No doubt his Pro day looked good, but during the season I'm saying the balled seemed to lack power. That could just be me, or even how college seems. Although I've never noticed it before with another QB.

I haven't followed his whole career, but I have watched a few this year after all the "suck for luck" ^cowpatties^ started. I did not see powerless throws, so I can't have an informed chat with you about that. Haven't seen it.

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I haven't followed his whole career, but I have watched a few this year after all the "suck for luck" ^cowpatties^ started. I did not see powerless throws, so I can't have an informed chat with you about that. Haven't seen it.

People get confused with "effortless" and "powerless". it appears powerless because he looks like he's not putting any effort into his throws.

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I keep hearing the 'the evolution of the passing game' I still have no idea what that means exactly, in truth their is no 'evolution' of the passing game, the rule changes made it simpler for long completions or easy short completions, cant touch a guy after 5 yards? then how ya supposed to keep up with a guy like Andre Johnson or a Mike Wallace? not many can unless the refs dont make the call when a corner is getting physical after 5 yards, their is no 'evolution' of the passing game, simply put the rules changed so much now that ya got a pass happy league, thats not evolution, thats a commissioner changing a rule that DIDNT need to be changed, and yes I know that rule helped us to a GREAT extent but I have NEVER liked it

The rule changes are part of the evolution of the game but they are a comparatively small part. Let me ask you this:

Do you think that NFL offenses stay the same year in and year out? Did they look the same in the '40s as they did in the '60s? In the '60s as the '80s? In the '80s as the '00s?

Obviously, rules change... but even more than rules is the change in strategy. The ways an offenses attacks a defense and the ways defenses respond continuously change over time and that has a huge effect on statistics.

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People get confused with "effortless" and "powerless". it appears powerless because he looks like he's not putting any effort into his throws.

I'm talking about his arm movement. I'm talking about how the ball floats through the air without drive.

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Don't know where you've seen that. There's been plenty of drive in his passes that I've seen.

Like I said many times. It could be TV, it could be the pace of the college game. The only difference is no other QB has seemed that way.

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I'm talking about his arm movement. I'm talking about how the ball floats through the air without drive.

Luck throws the ball with different trajectory. On TV it will appear that the ball is floating because his passes tend to have a little more arch. You would also consider this to be a touch pass, and that's part of what Make's Luck special. He knows when to drill a pass into tight coverage and when to take the heat off.

If you watch game film on Luck, he'll usually put touch on hiss passes if the receiver is open. If it's tight coverage, then he'll drill it. I'm not worried about his arm strength, the drive behind the ball, etc... his pro day erased any doubt anyone may have had about these issues.

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Luck throws the ball with different trajectory. On TV it will appear that the ball is floating because his passes tend to have a little more arch. You would also consider this to be a touch pass, and that's part of what Make's Luck special. He knows when to drill a pass into tight coverage and when to take the heat off.

If you watch game film on Luck, he'll usually put touch on hiss passes if the receiver is open. If it's tight coverage, then he'll drill it. I'm not worried about his arm strength, the drive behind the ball, etc... his pro day erased any doubt anyone may have had about these issues.

What did his Pro Day do? Wow, he completed some passes, basically a backyard pitch and catch, from a script he knew. He knew which side the "blitz" was coming from. He didn't hit many fade passes in the redzone. Fleener had to turn and jump for a "fade." I'm pretty sure that isn't what the receiver does. If you watch closely the simulated pressure of the bean bag gets there a couple times before he throws.

Like I said before I'll hold off until he plays an NFL game.

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Ok but how many rookies get talked about like this? He'll never be just a rookie unless he is a total bust, but I really doubt that will happen.

If he become just an average QB, it will be considered a bust. With his hype it will be considered the biggest bust ever.

He has to become a star. Period. Anything short of that is unexceptable. We lost a hero, goat player in order to get this guy.

star or bust

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I watched his pro day from start to finish, and heard comments about his throws looking effortless, not one about them being powerless. I commented on here about a couple passes looking short in the early going, but it was pointed out that he made a convincing adjustment after the first 2 balls. Steve Young was even commenting that the short looking balls were actually intentional (I have no way to confirm, that is just what I heard him say) because he was throwing as if a defender was on the field, and he was positioning the ball in the best place for only the receiver to have access to it, in some cases intentionally bringing the receiver back to get the ball. If it had been Dilfer saying it, I wouldn't trust it. But Steve Young has been an excellent QB in the NFL, and I trust what he is saying the job requires.

Don't forget that when Andrew Luck overthrew the ball, he did it on purpose to get a ball over the imaginary defender...

Some of these excuses just sound ridiculous lol...

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What's wrong with personal opinion?

Because it seems a trite exaggeration and he's a national media figurehead. Somewhat irresponsible to try and claim an embellishment as truth. Unless that's what he really thinks, which I find bizarre.

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yeah, people need to realize...especially people who don't follow the draft, There is always a concensus NO.1 QB and despite what people say, nobody to this day know what a NFL ready QB looks like.

Just like Neo's first Jump program, Everybody falls the first time...I don't care how good you're gonna be.

It's up to the coaches to take a Talented kid like Luck and Make him either the Cornerstone of a Great offense or the Queen piece of a prolific Team.

Luck's are...not the strongest but strong enough. When people talk about his strength they are correct. Although Luck is by far the Most accurate QB i've seen throw in years, many of the Hitch throw will get pick off if he throws at that Velocity. It up to him and the Coaches to work on that.

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Don't forget that when Andrew Luck overthrew the ball, he did it on purpose to get a ball over the imaginary defender...

Some of these excuses just sound ridiculous lol...

I get it... You are jumping in, mid conversation, and aren't seeing where my comments were coming from. I'm not making excuses, and I know relatively little about Mr. Luck. While I really hope whoever the Colts plug in at QB turns out to be nearly as awesome as Manning, I have no preference for who that may be.

The discussion here was whether Luck's arm can be described as weak or powerless. Frankly, I wouldn't really care if the consensus was that he is awful, but my point is that I've seen nothing in his pro day or game film to suggest he is weak or powerless.

And no, one overthrown pass out of 50, outdoors, into the wind, is not bad. If you are expecting better, maybe a robot football league will start up soon.

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Why do some keep talking about Griffin's "ceiling" being higher? What does that even mean? How high does it have to be to win? Is his ceiling higher than Tom Brady's? You know Brady, the skinny, unathletic guy picked in the 6th round with multiple Super Bowl wins. Is his ceiling higher than Eli who has an average NFL arm and never talks? Peyton? Is his ceiling higher than 4 time MVP Peyton, too? Big Ben has won 2 Super Bowls and been in a 3rd? Does that mean Griffin is going to win 4 or 5 Super Bowls and be a multiple MVP? Ceiling has NOTHING to do with winning a Super Bowl. When it's the playoffs and it's the 4th quarter and it's his last drive and he has 2 minutes to go all the way down the field, will he shed a tackler and make a great throw or will he panic and throw an interception or a bad pass? That's what matters.

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yeah, people need to realize...especially people who don't follow the draft, There is always a concensus NO.1 QB and despite what people say, nobody to this day know what a NFL ready QB looks like.

Just like Neo's first Jump program, Everybody falls the first time...I don't care how good you're gonna be.

It's up to the coaches to take a Talented kid like Luck and Make him either the Cornerstone of a Great offense or the Queen piece of a prolific Team.

Luck's are...not the strongest but strong enough. When people talk about his strength they are correct. Although Luck is by far the Most accurate QB i've seen throw in years, many of the Hitch throw will get pick off if he throws at that Velocity. It up to him and the Coaches to work on that.

I'm not sure where you got that from, because I wouldn't say Andrew Luck is the most accurate quarterback in years. I give that to Sam Bradford, as he was incredibly accurate at Oklahoma. And I do think that Robert Griffin III is a little more accurate than Luck. Just watch him throw it, especially on the deep passes.

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I get it... You are jumping in, mid conversation, and aren't seeing where my comments were coming from. I'm not making excuses, and I know relatively little about Mr. Luck. While I really hope whoever the Colts plug in at QB turns out to be nearly as awesome as Manning, I have no preference for who that may be.

The discussion here was whether Luck's arm can be described as weak or powerless. Frankly, I wouldn't really care if the consensus was that he is awful, but my point is that I've seen nothing in his pro day or game film to suggest he is weak or powerless.

And no, one overthrown pass out of 50, outdoors, into the wind, is not bad. If you are expecting better, maybe a robot football league will start up soon.

What are you talking about? Who said I was being sarcastic about anything... ;)

And I didn't say you were making excuses, you yourself said it was Steve Young. Forgive me if I think some of these excuses just sound really silly. He underthrew the receiver because he was acting like their was an imaginary defender? Give me a break haha...

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What did his Pro Day do? Wow, he completed some passes, basically a backyard pitch and catch, from a script he knew. He knew which side the "blitz" was coming from. He didn't hit many fade passes in the redzone. Fleener had to turn and jump for a "fade." I'm pretty sure that isn't what the receiver does. If you watch closely the simulated pressure of the bean bag gets there a couple times before he throws.

Like I said before I'll hold off until he plays an NFL game.

Okay, that's fair to hold off your judgement until he plays in the NFL. Your question about his ball floating and not having drive behind them should be answered by his pro day. He had plenty of different types of throws to demonstrate that he can make all of the throws, including a deep bomb to answer questions of arm strength, deep out routes which he threw with a lot of velocity, and "floaters" as you like to call them, to demonstrate touch passes. That's why I had refered to his pro day. If you can't agree with this, then you may be choosing to be a contrarian, and not evaluating him objectively.
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What are you talking about? Who said I was being sarcastic about anything... ;)

And I didn't say you were making excuses, you yourself said it was Steve Young. Forgive me if I think some of these excuses just sound really silly. He underthrew the receiver because he was acting like their was an imaginary defender? Give me a break haha...

If the throws were scripted to be placed a certain way, and Young had access to that script, I would NOT agree that his comments are silly. I know Luck was working from a script, but have no clue whether Young saw it or not. Without any expert knowledge of pro day practices, I would have to assume all the scouts and the media had access to his script to better allow them to determine how he fared vs. what he was trying to do.

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If the throws were scripted to be placed a certain way, and Young had access to that script, I would NOT agree that his comments are silly. I know Luck was working from a script, but have no clue whether Young saw it or not. Without any expert knowledge of pro day practices, I would have to assume all the scouts and the media had access to his script to better allow them to determine how he fared vs. what he was trying to do.

Scouts and media did have access. They even said what type of pass is coming next in a few occasions.

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Scouts and media did have access. They even said what type of pass is coming next in a few occasions.

Okay, that's fair to hold off your judgement until he plays in the NFL. Your question about his ball floating and not having drive behind them should be answered by his pro day. He had plenty of different types of throws to demonstrate that he can make all of the throws, including a deep bomb to answer questions of arm strength, deep out routes which he threw with a lot of velocity, and "floaters" as you like to call them, to demonstrate touch passes. That's why I had refered to his pro day. If you can't agree with this, then you may be choosing to be a contrarian, and not evaluating him objectively.

I feel he did have a good Pro Day. Throws were good, but it isn't game time situation.

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I feel he did have a good Pro Day. Throws were good, but it isn't game time situation.

So I'm still trying to see what you've suggested is a weak/powerless arm, in a way that seperates it from what could be described as touch to make passes more catchable. I haven't seen it in games I've watched, or in his pro day.

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So I'm still trying to see what you've suggested is a weak/powerless arm, in a way that seperates it from what could be described as touch to make passes more catchable. I haven't seen it in games I've watched, or in his pro day.

Like I've told you before it comes that way across to me on his Stanford games. Could be the TV or college pace. His Pro was fine, but that isn't changing anything because it isn't game time.

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I'm not sure where you got that from, because I wouldn't say Andrew Luck is the most accurate quarterback in years. I give that to Sam Bradford, as he was incredibly accurate at Oklahoma. And I do think that Robert Griffin III is a little more accurate than Luck. Just watch him throw it, especially on the deep passes.

I've watched about 4 games from Griffin and a crap load from Luck.

Luck is the Most accurate game time thrower i've see. He puts everything on the money. Forget a deep pass, you only get 2-3 of those a game. And if it comes up, he can get it there.

But hitches, slants, crosses and post are Johnny on the Spot. More than Sam Bradford....Sam Bradford, seriously? AHAHA.

The only guy in recent memory who had as much bewteen the numbers, over the LB in front of the Safety accuracy was Philip Rivers.

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I've watched about 4 games from Griffin and a crap load from Luck.

Luck is the Most accurate game time thrower i've see. He puts everything on the money. Forget a deep pass, you only get 2-3 of those a game. And if it comes up, he can get it there.

But hitches, slants, crosses and post are Johnny on the Spot. More than Sam Bradford....Sam Bradford, seriously? AHAHA.

The only guy in recent memory who had as much bewteen the numbers, over the LB in front of the Safety accuracy was Philip Rivers.

If you laughed at Sam Bradford's accuracy, then your bias just exploded through the computer screen. He might be the most accurate college passer in recent memory. If you look at one simple stat, completion percentage, it's lower than Robert Griffin III's. Also, Robert Griffin III's yards per attempt is 10.7 yards compared to Andrew Luck's 8.7 yards.

Luck does not put everything on the money as you seem to claim, just like no other quarterback does.

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If you laughed at Sam Bradford's accuracy, then your bias just exploded through the computer screen. He might be the most accurate college passer in recent memory. If you look at one simple stat, completion percentage, it's lower than Robert Griffin III's. Also, Robert Griffin III's yards per attempt is 10.7 yards compared to Andrew Luck's 8.7 yards.

Luck does not put everything on the money as you seem to claim, just like no other quarterback does.

Look at Tim Tebows Completion Percentage at florida and tell me if any of that matter bro

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He underthrew the receiver because he was acting like their was an imaginary defender? Give me a break haha...

YES, if you watch his proday you will observe him scouting the field sometimes before throwing to his receiver. After the ball is hiked, his head will shift to the opposite side of where his receiver is, then scan the field, find his one receiver and throw the ball. It wouldn't suprise me if he was imagining defenders and other receivers on the field. His brain works in mysterious ways. His head is probably a constant game of Madden on All-Madden.

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YES, if you watch his proday you will observe him scouting the field sometimes before throwing to his receiver. After the ball is hiked, his head will shift to the opposite side of where his receiver is, then scan the field, find his one receiver and throw the ball. It wouldn't suprise me if he was imagining defenders and other receivers on the field. His brain works in mysterious ways. His head is probably a constant game of Madden on All-Madden.

It's a pro day where you throw passes, not a game...

Why do people on here always feel the need to defend Andrew Luck? You don't have to baby him around... he's a 22 year old man...

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It's a pro day where you throw passes, not a game...

Why do people on here always feel the need to defend Andrew Luck? You don't have to baby him around... he's a 22 year old man...

Probably cause he is the guy that replaced Manning but when we get the talent to go around him on offense I am sure he will be just fine

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It's funny how he says he saw John Elway in high school, but TRENT DILFER WAS 7/8 YEARS OLD WHEN JOHN WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL. This is why Dilfer tickes me off and is the reason he should NOT be up there talking. He thinks he's best after that D and Jamal Lewis won the SB. He's a low life.

I disagree on Dilfer. I've always found him to be very humble in regards to the SB win. Every time I've seen him reference it he always talks about the defense and Jamal Lewis and says he was a very small part of it.

I keep hearing the 'the evolution of the passing game' I still have no idea what that means exactly, in truth their is no 'evolution' of the passing game, the rule changes made it simpler for long completions or easy short completions, cant touch a guy after 5 yards? then how ya supposed to keep up with a guy like Andre Johnson or a Mike Wallace? not many can unless the refs dont make the call when a corner is getting physical after 5 yards, their is no 'evolution' of the passing game, simply put the rules changed so much now that ya got a pass happy league, thats not evolution, thats a commissioner changing a rule that DIDNT need to be changed, and yes I know that rule helped us to a GREAT extent but I have NEVER liked it

Well it was kind of already addressed but the rule changes you're talking about....that IS the evolution of the game. The game has evolved by way of rule changes to make football more offense and high scoring. That said though there are still teams that stick to the older formula of having a solid running game and a great defense. Two teams that come immediately to mind are Alabama and LSU. :)

I've watched about 4 games from Griffin and a crap load from Luck.

Luck is the Most accurate game time thrower i've see. He puts everything on the money. Forget a deep pass, you only get 2-3 of those a game. And if it comes up, he can get it there.

But hitches, slants, crosses and post are Johnny on the Spot. More than Sam Bradford....Sam Bradford, seriously? AHAHA.

The only guy in recent memory who had as much bewteen the numbers, over the LB in front of the Safety accuracy was Philip Rivers.

In regards to timing routes like hitches, slants, crosses, the deep out, etc...Nick Foles is considerably more accurate than Andrew Luck. I'm not saying Foles is a better QB, but on these types of throws he was, more often than not, more accurate than Luck.

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Like I've told you before it comes that way across to me on his Stanford games. Could be the TV or college pace. His Pro was fine, but that isn't changing anything because it isn't game time.

Find the video of him throwing the ball 55 yards accurately while falling down, using all arm with pressure all around him and come back here.

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In regards to timing routes like hitches, slants, crosses, the deep out, etc...Nick Foles is considerably more accurate than Andrew Luck. I'm not saying Foles is a better QB, but on these types of throws he was, more often than not, more accurate than Luck.

Well obviously this Accuracy thing is highly objective.

I think accuracy is hitting receiver in the numbers. You might think it's something else

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Well obviously this Accuracy thing is highly objective.

I think accuracy is hitting receiver in the numbers. You might think it's something else

Accuracy is putting the ball in the best position for the receiver to catch it. And that is not always in the numbers.

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It's a pro day where you throw passes, not a game...

Why do people on here always feel the need to defend Andrew Luck? You don't have to baby him around... he's a 22 year old man...

Of course we have to baby him. I just bought new pampers for him the other day.

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Simply put teams throw more NOT because of strategy BUT because of the wide receiver rule-cant touch one beyond 5 yards thats silly as I said, how else ya supposed to keep up with guys like Calvin Johnson or Andre Johnson, ya cant unless a the rule isnt called, which the refs consistency is a whole other argument, if anything has to do with strategy it has to do with athletic Quarterbacks being drafted more then ever before, thats strategy

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Well obviously this Accuracy thing is highly objective.

I think accuracy is hitting receiver in the numbers. You might think it's something else

If you hit the receiver in the numbers in a fading corner route it's going to get intercepted. Many, many times you don't want to hit the WR in the chest.

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