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Am I imagining things or is Phillip ripping it?


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8 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

you’re about the only one who thinks he still throws the ball with the same zip he once did. I’m glad you’re happy they’ve gone two weeks, against 0-3 times mind you, without him throwing picks that cost the team. “Preposterous”?! There’s a reason ONE team was in on him. Like I said, let’s see when they actually beat a team that has won a game. Hasn’t happened yet. 

Thanks, Dr. Buzzkill.

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8 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

you’re about the only one who thinks he still throws the ball with the same zip he once did. I’m glad you’re happy they’ve gone two weeks, against 0-3 times mind you, without him throwing picks that cost the team. “Preposterous”?! There’s a reason ONE team was in on him. Like I said, let’s see when they actually beat a team that has won a game. Hasn’t happened yet. 

I didn't see anyone say that.

Sure, games will get tougher, but he is a noticeable improvement over Brissett and that is what matters most.

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5 hours ago, Myles said:

I didn't see anyone say that.

Sure, games will get tougher, but he is a noticeable improvement over Brissett and that is what matters most.

There are about 20 QB’s who would have been a noticeable improvement over Brissett though if were being honest. The person who tagged me in the original post had like 6 quotes with a bunch of people saying Rivers had zip on the ball. Again, this isn’t an argument I started. Some guy tagged me in a post because he thought the week after Rivers throws for 214 and one TD against the New York Jets is a good time to chirp someone.

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5 hours ago, Myles said:

I didn't see anyone say that.

Sure, games will get tougher, but he is a noticeable improvement over Brissett and that is what matters most.

Not passing td wise

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29 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Not passing td wise

No but total offensive yards and points the Rivers led offense is better and that is without being on the team in the past and no preseason.  

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3 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

There are about 20 QB’s who would have been a noticeable improvement over Brissett though if were being honest. The person who tagged me in the original post had like 6 quotes with a bunch of people saying Rivers had zip on the ball. Again, this isn’t an argument I started. Some guy tagged me in a post because he thought the week after Rivers throws for 214 and one TD against the New York Jets is a good time to chirp someone.

To be fair, after the entire team looked like crap in week 1, you thought it was a good time to chirp about how you were right all along in that signing Rivers was a huge mistake.

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16 hours ago, Superman said:

 

 

Per PFF charting, he's 4/9 on passes 20+ yards downfield. He has one pass completed 33 yards past the line of scrimmage, against the Vikings. (To MAC; really good throw, but it didn't exactly explode out of his hand.)  Per NGS, average completed air yards is near the bottom of the league at 4.9. Intended air yards near the bottom at 6.9. Longest completed air distance near the bottom at 39.2. 

 

He's not slinging the ball all over the field. The only throw that really qualifies is the shot to TY.

 

His efficiency is good to see, outside of the turnovers and coming up short on third down. His y/a is really good, completion percentage excellent. He's been meh on third down and in the red zone. Again, it's early in the season, and the offense is still working through things.

Fair enough, I just know last year when it came to JB some were really critical of him because his Y/A was bad and Rivers is at 8.6. It seemed to a few that Y/A was the most important stat the way a few were posting. I understand your post better now though after your broke it down better.

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1 hour ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

To be fair, after the entire team looked like crap in week 1, you thought it was a good time to chirp about how you were right all along in that signing Rivers was a huge mistake.


Huge mistake? I just said he wasn’t the elite QB that people were pretending he was and that he’s lost a step. He’s been pretty average so far, and with his WR core depleted by injury, it’ll probably stay that way for the foreseeable future.

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26 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Fair enough, I just know last year when it came to JB some were really critical of him because his Y/A was bad and Rivers is at 8.6. It seemed to a few that Y/A was the most important stat the way a few were posting. I understand your post better now though after your broke it down better.

 

I wasn't critical of JB only because of his low y/a. It was his way of playing QB, and the y/a was a simple statistical expression of his play. It was also combined with an increasing time to throw, and hesitance to throw the ball down the field. Rivers doesn't play QB the way JB does. He hasn't started throwing the ball down field so far, yet he still has a noticeably higher y/a than JB did this time last year. Kind of illustrates what I was saying about JB's lack of efficiency last season.

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5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I wasn't critical of JB only because of his low y/a. It was his way of playing QB, and the y/a was a simple statistical expression of his play. It was also combined with an increasing time to throw, and hesitance to throw the ball down the field. Rivers doesn't play QB the way JB does. He hasn't started throwing the ball down field so far, yet he still has a noticeably higher y/a than JB did this time last year. Kind of illustrates what I was saying about JB's lack of efficiency last season.

Yeah Rivers has a quicker release which helps so even when he throws short it is quick. That makes it tougher on defenses to respond and the RB's and WR's will gain more yards because of it. I get what you are saying with your last post, he hasn't really thrown many real deep balls. The one to TY was a beauty but dropped unfortunately.

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You keep taking weapons away from Rivers every single week .I don5 think this team even understands they either trade for a WR now or fade into an 8 and 8 season you all will blame on Rivers .Go get a freaking WR and stop ignoring the talent that has been lost this year !!!!! I’m sick of dumpster diving !!!!! Show us you are going for it .Im sickened by the lack of knowledge of how far this team is away from a Supebowl with these injuries.WAKE UP BALLARD or QUIT !!!!!!!

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On 9/28/2020 at 7:11 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not sure why anyone doubted him to be at least good. So far he has been very good actually and had we beat the Jags I would even say great. 38 for QB's is just a number now days. That really isn't old in todays league for that position. He may play until he's 40 or 41?? Look at Brady and Brees.

If you’re never hit much you can last a while so this is very true for these two they’ll just start to deteriorate in their own physical abilities by themselves 

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7 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:


Huge mistake? I just said he wasn’t the elite QB that people were pretending he was and that he’s lost a step. He’s been pretty average so far, and with his WR core depleted by injury, it’ll probably stay that way for the foreseeable future.

I’d say he’s been better than average – he had kind of a bad Week 1 (as many teams & players did in their 1st live action after no joint practices or preseason games) and he still had the team in a position to tie or win late and if TY Hilton catches either of the passes he dropped, we may well have won.

 

The following week against the Vikings, his only interception was a good pass that MAC allowed to be deflected & picked. He also hit Hilton with a perfect 40 yard pass in the end zone that was dropped. Nonetheless, Taylor was running well and there was no need for Philip to pad his stats, he did enough to win the game.

 

The next game against the Jets, we got 2 touchdowns & a safety as the defense outscored the Jets on their own, so Rivers didn’t need to do much to win but led 2 touchdown & 2 field goal drives, resulting in a blowout in which he sat for ½ of the 4th Quarter and reserves got playing time.

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On 9/28/2020 at 10:36 PM, Grigson's Gaffes said:


Yeah his arm strength is still just as great as it was when he came into the league day 1 LOL let’s see him fire some out routes to the flats and see if it holds up. Different ball game when you’re not beating up on the New York Jets of the world. The Colts best games have been when they’re running the ball, that isn’t a coincidence. In 3 games the colts have played one team with A win. Let’s see how Sunday goes before you start gloating and tagging me out of nowhere.

 

We beat the vikings who lost to the titans by 1 point 31-30.  The vikings are a good team and proved it by putting up 30 points against the titans

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27 minutes ago, PrNum1 said:

 

We beat the vikings who lost to the titans by 1 point 31-30.  The vikings are a good team and proved it by putting up 30 points against the titans

They’re 0-3 and have given up 31 and 43 in their 2 other games. They’ve also lost 2 of the 3 games by multiple scores.

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15 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

They’re 0-3 and have given up 31 and 43 in their 2 other games. They’ve also lost 2 of the 3 games by multiple scores.

I wonder what happened from last year's playoff Vikings.  Yeah, they were close with the titans, but the titans opponents' cumulative record is 1-8.  So we don't know enough about the Titans to call them a playoff team either.  Then the Vikings vs Green Bay was never really close.  They were down by 20 points or so going into the 4th.  Then obviously we imposed our will upon them for most the game.

 

I don't really get why they aren't the team they were last year.  I  was looking through their roster and I don't notice a huge turnover.  Of course losing Hunter and Barr is never going to be helpful, but their offense, specifically their passing offense has been what's really held them back.

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1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I wonder what happened from last year's playoff Vikings.  Yeah, they were close with the titans, but the titans opponents' cumulative record is 1-8.  So we don't know enough about the Titans to call them a playoff team either.  Then the Vikings vs Green Bay was never really close.  They were down by 20 points or so going into the 4th.  Then obviously we imposed our will upon them for most the game.

 

I don't really get why they aren't the team they were last year.  I  was looking through their roster and I don't notice a huge turnover.  Of course losing Hunter and Barr is never going to be helpful, but their offense, specifically their passing offense has been what's really held them back.


It’s a complete head scratcher to me as well. That team SHOULD be really good. They have coaching and talent, for some reason it just hasn’t worked yet. Of the 0-3 teams I would think they have the best shot at turning it around. Maybe Diggs meant more to that offense than we know,  but time will tell.

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2 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:


It’s a complete head scratcher to me as well. That team SHOULD be really good. They have coaching and talent, for some reason it just hasn’t worked yet. Of the 0-3 teams I would think they have the best shot at turning it around. Maybe Diggs meant more to that offense than we know,  but time will tell.

I mean he's "good" but it's not like he's franchise altering good.  Certainly not a centerblock.  Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit.  The inability to hold teams to lower point totals is at least arguable.  But much of it doesn't compute.  

 

Still, small sample size, and there's still much of the season to perform.   We'll see..

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Phil is certainly enjoying this Colts OL so far.  Look for him to get better as the season progresses.  And keep in mind, before the Chargers went to complete trash, "Philcember" was a real thing.  Will need it this year with our December schedule.

 

Ridiculous stat from PFF:

 

Rivers pressures through week 3, 2020: 17 total

 

Rivers pressures last season with LAC: 14 per game

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On 9/29/2020 at 1:38 PM, Grigson's Gaffes said:

Again, this isn’t an argument I started.

 

Yeah it is.  You chiming in on multiple threads weeks ago about Rivers noodle-arm started your narrative that Rivers hasn't had zip going back to last season.  I can go back and pull receipts if you like.  :D

 

On 9/29/2020 at 1:38 PM, Grigson's Gaffes said:

Some guy tagged me in a post because he thought the week after Rivers throws for 214 and one TD against the New York Jets is a good time to chirp someone.

 

tenor.gif

 

@ me.  haha  The stats are irrelevant.  So is the opponent.  This is about Rivers arm-strength, which you have been saying for the last few weeks is gone .  Anyone watching the game can see with their own eyes that Rivers still has zip.

 

Don't try to change your argument like it has anything to do with stats or the opponent.  Rivers can still sling it.  Period.  Just admit it.  :thmup:

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48 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Yeah it is.  You chiming in on multiple threads weeks ago about Rivers noodle-arm started your narrative that Rivers hasn't had zip going back to last season.  I can go back and pull receipts if you like.  :D

 

 

tenor.gif

 

@ me.  haha  The stats are irrelevant.  So is the opponent.  This is about Rivers arm-strength, which you have been saying for the last few weeks is gone .  Anyone watching the game can see with their own eyes that Rivers still has zip.

 

Don't try to change your argument like it has anything to do with stats or the opponent.  Rivers can still sling it.  Period.  Just admit it.  :thmup:

You’re a strange individual. My argument has always been that he has in fact lost velocity on his throws and that it’s not coming back. If you think he throws the ball like he did 10 years ago then you’re either delusional or have no idea what you’re watching when you watch football on Sundays. (Very possible) 

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2 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

You’re a strange individual.

 

Personal attack?  Let's focus on my opinions and posts, bud.  :thmup:

 

2 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

My argument has always been that he has in fact lost velocity on his throws and that it’s not coming back.

 

Can you support this argument with facts?  Because the eye-test says he still has plenty of velocity.  If there really is any loss of velocity, it is to be expected as he ages anyway, and seems so minimal as to be irrelevant.

 

14 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

If you think he throws the ball like he did 10 years ago then you’re either delusional or have no idea what you’re watching when you watch football on Sundays. (Very possible)

 

Another personal attack?  Didn't you also call your fellow members "mouthbreathers" in a previous post...  Do you always lash out with personal attacks when your opinion is challenged?  Strange.  :thinking:

 

But anyway, back on topic:  nobody has said he has the same zip as 10 years ago, but you seem to be the only one making a point about his loss of velocity being substantial enough to comment on.  It looks like he has as much zip as anyone not named Rodgers or Mahomes.

 

He definitely has enough velocity to make all the throws needed in this offense, so I'm glad the Colts signed him.  Especially when you factor in his experience, leadership, and intangibles.

 

If we disagree about that, fine, but don't make personal attacks on your fellow members because they disagree with your opinion.  :hat:

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7 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

You’re a strange individual. My argument has always been that he has in fact lost velocity on his throws and that it’s not coming back. If you think he throws the ball like he did 10 years ago then you’re either delusional or have no idea what you’re watching when you watch football on Sundays. (Very possible) 

I’ve been closely watching Philip Rivers for his entire professional career and he never displayed the impressive cannon of an arm that some of his peers possessed –his game (and unique delivery) has always been about accurate & timely passing, supported by a good running game that made opposing defenses pick their poison. The ball would usually arrive on time & on target, with occasional deep passes to keep the defense honest and prevent them from crowding the line of scrimmage. That hasn’t changed, as evidenced by Hilton’s dropped TD pass against Minnesota, and deep, downfield passes to MAC.

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55 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Personal attack?  Let's focus on my opinions and posts, bud.  :thmup:

 

 

Can you support this argument with facts?  Because the eye-test says he still has plenty of velocity.  If there really is any loss of velocity, it is to be expected as he ages anyway, and seems so minimal as to be irrelevant.

 

 

Another personal attack?  Didn't you also call your fellow members "mouthbreathers" in a previous post...  Do you always lash out with personal attacks when your opinion is challenged?  Strange.  :thinking:

 

But anyway, back on topic:  nobody has said he has the same zip as 10 years ago, but you seem to be the only one making a point about his loss of velocity being substantial enough to comment on.  It looks like he has as much zip as anyone not named Rodgers or Mahomes.

 

He definitely has enough velocity to make all the throws needed in this offense, so I'm glad the Colts signed him.  Especially when you factor in his experience, leadership, and intangibles.

 

If we disagree about that, fine, but don't make personal attacks on your fellow members because they disagree with your opinion.  :hat:


Since this whole thing has just been me stating facts and referencing numbers to back it up and you replying with “nuh-uh, stats don’t matter”, you really think Rivers has elite arm strength? He is accurate but in terms of zip and how the ball looks leaving his hand there is a clear difference between him and the upper echelon of QB’s in this league. His numbers are more on pace to resemble 2019 than 2018 and that was my whole point. That he wasn’t going to recapture any magic of yesteryear and that the 2020 version of Rivers would more resemble the 2019 one than the 2018 or 2008 one. Beating two bad teams at home doesn’t change things.

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1 minute ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

Since this whole thing has just been me stating facts and referencing numbers to back it up

 

What facts and what numbers?  I haven't seen any relating to his velocity... just box score stats.

 

2 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

you really think Rivers has elite arm strength?

 

Never said that.  I actually said he doesn't have the same zip as the elite guys like Rodgers and Mahomes.

 

3 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

His numbers are more on pace to resemble 2019 than 2018 and that was my whole point.

 

I thought was your original point was that he lost velocity and won't get it back?  Now your point is about stats?

 

4 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

Beating two bad teams at home doesn’t change things.

 

Again, neither opponent nor stats have anything to do with his velocity throwing the football.

 

Quit trying to change your point.  He still has velocity.  It's not elite, but it didn't fall off a cliff either.

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On 9/29/2020 at 7:07 PM, Riversrun said:

You keep taking weapons away from Rivers every single week .I don5 think this team even understands they either trade for a WR now or fade into an 8 and 8 season you all will blame on Rivers .Go get a freaking WR and stop ignoring the talent that has been lost this year !!!!! I’m sick of dumpster diving !!!!! Show us you are going for it .Im sickened by the lack of knowledge of how far this team is away from a Supebowl with these injuries.WAKE UP BALLARD or QUIT !!!!!!!

You dont know what your talking about .....  this team is loaded with talent at wr.  Just because they are young doesnt mean they are not good .   hilton is a pro bowler jack doyle is a pro bowler .  mo allie cox has been on fire a top talent tight end .  Pascal was the colts best wr last year he is a great wr.   With young guys like fountain dulin patmon , colts are fine at wide wr .  pittman is only out for a couple weeks and cambell is coming back also .  this team lost no one for the season weapon wise .

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On 9/28/2020 at 11:54 PM, Grigson's Gaffes said:

you’re about the only one who thinks he still throws the ball with the same zip he once did. I’m glad you’re happy they’ve gone two weeks, against 0-3 times mind you, without him throwing picks that cost the team. “Preposterous”?! There’s a reason ONE team was in on him. Like I said, let’s see when they actually beat a team that has won a game. Hasn’t happened yet. 

calm down your getting all worked up for nothing .  phillip is playing fine they been moving the ball fine.  Just because they only let him throw it 25 times a game of course his stats are not gonna be huge.   a balanced offense is fine

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2 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

What facts and what numbers?  I haven't seen any relating to his velocity... just box score stats.

 

 

Never said that.  I actually said he doesn't have the same zip as the elite guys like Rodgers and Mahomes.

 

 

I thought was your original point was that he lost velocity and won't get it back?  Now your point is about stats?

 

 

Again, neither opponent nor stats have anything to do with his velocity throwing the football.

 

Quit trying to change your point.  He still has velocity.  It's not elite, but it didn't fall off a cliff either.


Ok, I’ll make this clear. Philip Rivers has lost a step, his passes don’t have the same velocity they once did. He’s no longer an elite QB, he’s very average. If Rivers has to throw 40+ in a game, the Colts are probably going to lose. Is he better than Brissett? Yes. Is he the QB I would have preferred them to sign in the off-season? No. But it is what it is. I understand why they did, but he’s no savior. Those are my exact feelings on this topic. I’ll gladly admit if I get proven wrong on any of these things. 

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3 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

Ok, I’ll make this clear. Philip Rivers has lost a step, his passes don’t have the same velocity they once did.  He’s no longer an elite QB, he’s very average.

 

That's your opinion.  That's fine.

 

And I can respectfully disagree without calling you a "mouthbreather", "delusional", or insulting your football intelligence.  :D

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On 9/28/2020 at 3:55 PM, DontEverGiveUp said:

Let's just hope the Colts end up doing something with it.

We could also say that this is a very good situation for PR to come in to. Let's hope he ends up doing something with it. 

On 9/29/2020 at 4:07 PM, Riversrun said:

You keep taking weapons away from Rivers every single week .I don5 think this team even understands they either trade for a WR now or fade into an 8 and 8 season you all will blame on Rivers .Go get a freaking WR and stop ignoring the talent that has been lost this year !!!!! I’m sick of dumpster diving !!!!! Show us you are going for it .Im sickened by the lack of knowledge of how far this team is away from a Supebowl with these injuries.WAKE UP BALLARD or QUIT !!!!!!!

Who's taking weapons away....what? How is this even a point?

 

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On 9/28/2020 at 6:11 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not sure why anyone doubted him to be at least good. So far he has been very good actually and had we beat the Jags I would even say great. 38 for QB's is just a number now days. That really isn't old in todays league for that position. He may play until he's 40 or 41?? Look at Brady and Brees.

Exactly, 5 years younger than Brady, 4 years younger than Brees, only 1 year older than Rodgers yet Rivers is old and washed and Rodgers is MVP?!

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4 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:


Ok, I’ll make this clear. Philip Rivers has lost a step, his passes don’t have the same velocity they once did. He’s no longer an elite QB, he’s very average. If Rivers has to throw 40+ in a game, the Colts are probably going to lose. Is he better than Brissett? Yes. Is he the QB I would have preferred them to sign in the off-season? No. But it is what it is. I understand why they did, but he’s no savior. Those are my exact feelings on this topic. I’ll gladly admit if I get proven wrong on any of these things. 

If any QB has to throw 40 times, they're more than likely going to lose as their most often playing from behind.

 

Right now:

-Rivers has his 3rd best PFF rating of the last 10 years

-#1 in completion %

-#1 in accuracy rating and catchable pass rate

-#5 in yards per attempt

-#3 in pressured completion rate

 

He's also throwing guys open, and we're #3 in receiver YAC per target.

 

As far as velocity, he's looked fine. Has he lost some, maybe, but he's shown plenty of zip at times. And you don't have to throw lasers when you are accurate. 

 

Not saying Rivers is the second coming, but aside from his 2 INTs in game 1, he's looked great. Those passes to MAC on intermediate to deep sail routes were pretty as can be.

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5 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:


Ok, I’ll make this clear. Philip Rivers has lost a step, his passes don’t have the same velocity they once did. He’s no longer an elite QB, he’s very average. If Rivers has to throw 40+ in a game, the Colts are probably going to lose. Is he better than Brissett? Yes. Is he the QB I would have preferred them to sign in the off-season? No. But it is what it is. I understand why they did, but he’s no savior. Those are my exact feelings on this topic. I’ll gladly admit if I get proven wrong on any of these things. 

I'm not sure if you realize this, but NFL QBs as a whole have a win percentage of about 25% when throwing over 40 times in a game.  This is not exclusive to Rivers and is not a valid criticism.

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