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Weeks 1 and 2 for stat heads (QB, WR, DL, doghouse, and misc)


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25 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

A little deeper dive and comparisons of W1 and 2.

 

 

Below are 

1. QB Stats and comments

2. Pass catcher separation stats and comments

3. DL separation stats and comments

4. Pass rush stats and comments

5. Tackle stats and comments

6. Dog house stats (drops and missed tackles) and comments

7. Pass charts from W1 and 2 from Nextgen

 

The TLDR

1. Jax game plan was pretty simple looking at the stats if it wasn't already obvious. Attack our soft zone. Surprised MN didn't take note.

2. Rivers is 3rd in Time to Throw (lowest) through 2 weeks (only 0.03 off #1) and 3rd in completion %. Tied for 3rd in INTs too ouch (T for 7th if you remove the last one).

3. Our pass catchers are pretty mediocre in getting separation. 

4. Autry is doing pretty darn good at DE. Muhammad might be a better pressure guy than we thought.

5. Our DL wasn't really better better in W2. Cousins' time to throw was 38% higher than Minshew's, and threw it 30% more. The stats are near the same all things considered.

6. While there's no cushion stats for the overall D, many stats would suggest our DBs played closer to the LOS vs MN. Perhaps not more man, but limited free release/cushion.

7. TY is the only drop so far. Okereke is leading the team with missed tackles per snap.

 


QB Stats

TtT - Time to throw (lowest to highest)
WK1 Minshew #2T lowest (#17 in W2)
WK2 Cousins #31 (27th in WK1)
Note - Rivers was #2T W1 and #2 W2

 

IAY - Intended air yards (lowest to highest)
W1 Minshew #2 (W2 #25)
W2 Cousins #31 (W1 #29)
Note - Rivers was #9 W1 and #23 W2

 

AGG% - Aggressive % (lowest to highest)
W1 Minshew #2 (#24 W2)
W2 Cousins #15 (#29 W1)
Note - Rivers was #27 W1 and #20 W2

 

Completion % (highest to lowest)
WK1 Minshew #1 (18 WK2)
WK2 Cousins #32 (#6 W1)
Note - Rivers was #5 W1 and #3 W2


O Comments - 
Rivers - being first and second in time to throw in the first 2 weeks is a breath of fresh air from last year. Aside from the W1 INTs (W2 INT was not on him), he's doing what you want in terms of both TtT and Completion % (top 5 both weeks). I'm glad to see the AGG% go down in W2, but W1 is somewhat expected in a close game or playing from behind. You don't want to be too conservative, but you don't want to be higher than 25 either. IAY will vary game to game based on gameplan, and you don't want to be too high or two low in your AVG. The swing from W1 to 2 is a bit understandable given who we were playing.

Colts Passing D Comments -
Jax - If anyone didn't clearly understand Jax's game plan vs the Colts, the stats make it crystal clear in that they wanted to attack our soft zone. Minshew's #2 TtT, #2 lowest IAY, #2 AGG%, and #1 completion % make it painfully obvious. Hats off to their OC, and paper bag over the head to our D gameplan and for not making quick adjustments. We made Minshew look like a surgeon.

Vikings - It's no wonder folks think our DL got more pressure vs the Vikes. Cousins' horribly high TtT gave us a lot more opportunity/time to see it. And his high IAY and low completion % gave our DBs opportunity to defend. 

 

 

WR/TE Separation (2.84 yards is league AVG)
Week 1
Jax

Conley 6.14
Eifert 5.13
Cole 4.93
Shenault 3.1
Chark 2.54
Colts
MAC 3.42
Doyle 2.62
Campbell 2.58
Hilton 2.35
Pascal 1.29

 

Week 1 Comments
Jax - Another eye popping stat in Jax's gameplan. 4 of 5 Jax pass catchers were above league average in separation, 3 of 5 significantly above. Again, made our soft zone look silly. I really wish they gave game by game cushion stats as well (although we all can guess).
Colts - Having 4 of 5 pass catchers below league average is a bit scary, especially when one of those guys is Hilton. Doyle was one of the better guys in the league last year in separation, so guessing this is a blip. Another indicator though that MAC has some pretty good potential. 

 

Week 2 (2.84 League AVG)
MN

Smith 3.28
Jefferson 3.15
Johnson 2.86
Thielen 2.14
Rudolph 0.53
Colts
Dulin 4.16
Hilton 2.72
Pascal 2.6
Pittman 2.08
MAC 2.04

 

Week 2 Comments
MN - Another indicator we likely played more man in W2. While there were 3 of 5 over the league average, they weren't near as far over as Jax in W1. 
Colts - This is one of the reasons I'd like to see Dulin get some additional targets. TY did a bit better this week, but still below league AVG. Big delta for MAC, but expected to an extent becoming the #1 TE. 


Defensive Pass Rush AVG Separation from QB
(League AVG is 4.51 yards)
Week 1
Jax
Allen 4.45
Bryan 4.51
Smoot 4.68
Chaisson 5.06
Colts
Autry 3.54
Buckner 4.67
Houston 5.31
Stewart 5.37

 

Week 1 Comments
Jax - about what you would expect. Only one below the league AVG, so OL did a great job. It should however be expect given Rivers' extremely low time to throw.
Colts - Given Minshew's #3 time to throw that week, this is an exceptional job by Autry coming from the outside, and understandable for the rest.

 

Week 2
MN

Odenigbo 4.79
Ngakoue 5.04
Holmes 5.25
Johnson 5.83
Colts 
Muhammad 3.6
Houston 3.94
Buckner 4.13
Autry 4.58

 

Week 2 Comments
MN - simply great job by the Colts OL keeping everyone higher than the league AVG. And I'm sure the OL is loving the big reduciton in this year's TtT. If Rivers continues to be top 5, this will be a big help to the OL in terms of wear and tear, and overall freshness late in games, and late in year.
Colts - What a great number from Muhammad, who most see as a run stuffer. Great numbers all around, but shoujld be expected given Cousin's super high TtT. In short, the Colts DL had 38% more time, and 30% more opportunity (attempts) to get home in week 2.

 

 

Pass Rush Stats (passing)
Indy D - WK1 / WK2
OL Rank - Jax 26th / MN 23rd
Opponent Passing Attempts - 20 / 26
Pressures - 9 (7 DL, 2 DB) / 11 (11DL)
QB Hits - 4 (3 DL, 1 DB) / 7 (7 DL)
Hurries - 5 (4 DL, 1 DB) / 4 (4 DL)
Blitz - 6 (5 LB, 1 DB) / 6 (4 LB / 2 DB)
Sacks - 4 (3 DL, 1 DB) / 3 (3 DL)
Knock downs - 0 / 3 (3 DL)

 

Misc D Stats
Passes Defended - 1 (DB) / 9 (8 DB, 1 LB)
TFL - 5 (4 DL, 1 DB) / 3 (2 DL, 1 LB)
INT - 0 / 3 (3 DB)

 

Comments - Overall, not a huge difference. Combined pressures only increased by 2 in Week 2, which is probably smaller than one would expect with having 38% more time to get to the QB, and 30% more passing than Week 1. 

 

 

Tackles (combined)
Week 1 (43 total plays / 19 of 20 pass / 23 rush)
DL 15
LB 20
DB 16

Week 2 (44 total plays / 11 of 26 pass / 18 rush)
DL 14
LB 12
DB 16

 

Comments - Pretty clear our DBs were playing closer up given the DB Ts week 2, when there was nearly half the completions, yet same number of Ts. 


Doghouse stats
Week 1
Drops - 0
Missed Ts - Buckner 1, Oke 1, Rock 1, Walker 1
Week 2
Drops - Hilton 1
Missed Ts - Moore 1, Oke 1, Walker 1, Stewart 1

 

Comments - less drops overall so far, and TY does have an occasional one. Not worried, but boy was that a big drop. On missed Ts, not surprised to see Oke's name there both weeks, but a little surprised to see Walker, Moore, Rock, and especially Buckner.

 

Pass Charts - Click to enlarge

 

Week 1

pass-chart_MIN604610_2020-REG-1_16000339

pass-chart_RIV651634_2020-REG-1_16000338

Week 2

pass-chart_COU709400_2020-REG-2_16006325

pass-chart_RIV651634_2020-REG-2_16006326

Interesting numbers to say the least.  Im curious to how that will change as we progress thru the season. 

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Nice post.

 

Didn't TY have 2 drops in game 1 though? Both at end of game?

 

And what about MAC for int in game 2?

 

The drop numbers seem to be off.

 

Also seems like pretty much most of Minshew's passes came inside the numbers, where Cousins was trying to attack outside of the numbers, with not much up the middle of the field.

 

Rivers attacks all over the field.

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I enjoy seeing all these stats and numbers, and the differences in week 1 to week 2. I am also going to treat game 1 as a preseason game, being that it’s obvious this team wasn’t anywhere near ready with poor game management and planning/adjustments. Jacksonville simply pulled our shirts over our head and gave a gut punch. While we could have easily won that game, Hilton drops and the Rivers INTs on poor decisions just kept us in a hole. I honestly believe as the season goes on, Phil will cut down on the interceptions and TY will remember how to catch the ball again. 

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4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Interesting numbers to say the least.  Im curious to how that will change as we progress thru the season. 

Yup. Given all the changes this year, I'll be scouring all the #s mid week after each game. I'm going to start looking at the Jets numbers and personnel this evening or tomorrow. 

3 minutes ago, w87r said:

Nice post.

 

Didn't TY have 2 drops in game 1 though? Both at end of game?

 

And what about MAC for int in game 2?

 

The drop numbers seem to be off.

 

Also seems like pretty much most of Minshew's passes came inside the numbers, where Cousins was trying to attack outside of the numbers, with not much up the middle of the field.

 

Rivers attacks all over the field.

Thank you sir. Just doing my normal mid week dig.

 

Nope, TY only shows 1 on all the sites. I did forget to list MAC's drop though, but only 2 total. 

https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

 

Minshew was 90% less than 10 yards. Jax game plan really provided a blueprint to attack our zone. I surprised MN OC didn't take note. 

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Just now, EastStreet said:

Yup. Given all the changes this year, I'll be scouring all the #s mid week after each game. I'm going to start looking at the Jets numbers and personnel this evening or tomorrow. 

Thank you sir. Just doing my normal mid week dig.

 

Nope, TY only shows 1 on all the sites. I did forget to list MAC's drop though, but only 2 total. 

https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

 

Minshew was 90% less than 10 yards. Jax game plan really provided a blueprint to attack our zone. I surprised MN OC didn't take note. 

that's what worries me going forward, there's definitely a blueprint out there

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Just now, csmopar said:

that's what worries me going forward, there's definitely a blueprint out there

All the stats pointed to us either playing more man, or at least playing closer up to the LOS in game 2 to decrease the free WR releases that burnt us W1. It's not like it wasn't a blueprint last year too though lol. 

 

I'm not anti-zone. I'm anti super soft zone, and I'm anti too much zone. In W1, I was super disappointed in the lack of adjustments as it was clear early what they were trying to do. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

I enjoy seeing all these stats and numbers, and the differences in week 1 to week 2. I am also going to treat game 1 as a preseason game, being that it’s obvious this team wasn’t anywhere near ready with poor game management and planning/adjustments. Jacksonville simply pulled our shirts over our head and gave a gut punch. While we could have easily won that game, Hilton drops and the Rivers INTs on poor decisions just kept us in a hole. I honestly believe as the season goes on, Phil will cut down on the interceptions and TY will remember how to catch the ball again. 

I think the 2 INTs in W1 might have been a kick in the head for Rivers. Not that I think he'll be super conservative, but I do think it was a wake up call. That whole W1 game plan, was just bad, on both sides of the ball.

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Not sure what to make of MAC's really low avg separation. On his biggest catch...he was all alone for 10 yards on a blown coverage. And on another big play...he was all alone on a dump off pass for probably 10 yards as well. But his average separation was the lowest on the team. 

 

To offset those two plays and end up such a low average...he must have been draped the rest of the game. Might not matter with his size...and Rivers' propensity to throw it up to a big pass catcher...but I was just surprised by that number.

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33 minutes ago, csmopar said:

that's what worries me going forward, there's definitely a blueprint out there

 

It's been out there since last season. Cousins was a special type of awful to have that low of a completion percentage and passer rating. Shades of Will Grier late last season. That game was techinically 4 games ago...so maybe the Colts are becoming a defense that either play lights out or bad...with little in between.

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2 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

Not sure what to make of MAC's really low avg separation. On his biggest catch...he was all alone for 10 yards on a blown coverage. And on another big play...he was all alone on a dump off pass for probably 10 yards as well. But his average separation was the lowest on the team. 

 

To offset those two plays and end up such a low average...he must have been draped the rest of the game. Might not matter with his size...and Rivers' propensity to throw it up to a big pass catcher...but I was just surprised by that number.

His separation in W1 was much higher. Keep in mind he had some targets where he was indeed draped. The drop he had for instance where it bounced off his chest.

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19 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

His separation in W1 was much higher. Keep in mind he had some targets where he was indeed draped. The drop he had for instance where it bounced off his chest.

 

Is it avg separation on routes? Or targets? 

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. Given all the changes this year, I'll be scouring all the #s mid week after each game. I'm going to start looking at the Jets numbers and personnel this evening or tomorrow. 

Thank you sir. Just doing my normal mid week dig.

 

Nope, TY only shows 1 on all the sites. I did forget to list MAC's drop though, but only 2 total. 

https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

 

Minshew was 90% less than 10 yards. Jax game plan really provided a blueprint to attack our zone. I surprised MN OC didn't take note. 

My head hurts now.  Thanks for that.

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19 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Is it avg separation on routes? Or targets? 

from nextgen

 

Quote

How much separation a receiver is getting from the nearest defender (in yards) at the time of catch/incompletion. The below chart only includes WR’s and TE’s.

 

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Wow this is some impressive analysis.  Have you considered applying for a position with the team? :D

 

Couple points on Rivers: 

 

1. The lack of separation makes his completion percentage even more admirable. 


2. One of his strengths is that he throws with so much anticipation. He often throws before the receiver is even open. However, if he and the receiver are not 100% on the same page in terms of timing, or if the defense does something unexpected, there is more risk of interceptions.  I expect him to be more in sync with receivers as the season progresses. 

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@EastStreet - excellent deep dive. :thmup:

 

I am certain Derek Carr is lower as well on TtT (higher ranked) since a quick release and YAC are things he relies on as opposed to throwing it farther. Could also explain their offense humming so far. 

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2 minutes ago, Bolts2Colts said:

Wow this is some impressive analysis.  Have you considered applying for a position with the team? :D

 

Couple points on Rivers: 

 

1. The lack of separation makes his completion percentage even more admirable. 

Yep, it sure does. 

2 minutes ago, Bolts2Colts said:


2. One of his strengths is that he throws with so much anticipation. He often throws before the receiver is even open. However, if he and the receiver are not 100% on the same page in terms of timing, or if the defense does something unexpected, there is more risk of interceptions.  I expect him to be more in sync with receivers as the season progresses. 

Yup, anticipation is a double edged sword. If you look at film of his first INT in game one, He was baited a bit into throwing into double coverage. Looked like single coverage to start out with, but Henderson passed off him man and came back to help double TY. Rivers was already anticipating and loading up for the throw thinking Henderson would continue on. Pretty sure earlier routes he kept going. IMO, the DC probably planned that, and if he did, hats off to him. What bothered me a bit was that TY's route seemed a bit lazy, and his effort on the ball was pretty subpar.

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6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

@EastStreet - excellent deep dive. :thmup:

 

I am certain Derek Carr is lower as well on TtT (higher ranked) since a quick release and YAC are things he relies on as opposed to throwing it farther. Could also explain their offense humming so far. 

Thanks bud. Carr is 6th lowest TtT and 5th in completion %. He's had some very nice games this year. I expect him to continue to roll now that he has some good weapons to catch. His IAY is 4th shortest, just a tad over Mahomes. The LVR/Pats game should be fun his week. I'm glad we play later so I can watch it.

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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

 

WR/TE Separation (2.84 yards is league AVG)
Week 1
Jax

Conley 6.14
Eifert 5.13
Cole 4.93
Shenault 3.1
Chark 2.54
Colts
MAC 3.42
Doyle 2.62
Campbell 2.58
Hilton 2.35
Pascal 1.29

 

Week 1 Comments
Jax - Another eye popping stat in Jax's gameplan. 4 of 5 Jax pass catchers were above league average in separation, 3 of 5 significantly above. Again, made our soft zone look silly. I really wish they gave game by game cushion stats as well (although we all can guess).
Colts - Having 4 of 5 pass catchers below league average is a bit scary, especially when one of those guys is Hilton. Doyle was one of the better guys in the league last year in separation, so guessing this is a blip. Another indicator though that MAC has some pretty good potential. 

 

Week 2 (2.84 League AVG)
MN

Smith 3.28
Jefferson 3.15
Johnson 2.86
Thielen 2.14
Rudolph 0.53
Colts
Dulin 4.16
Hilton 2.72
Pascal 2.6
Pittman 2.08
MAC 2.04

 

Week 2 Comments
MN - Another indicator we likely played more man in W2. While there were 3 of 5 over the league average, they weren't near as far over as Jax in W1. 
Colts - This is one of the reasons I'd like to see Dulin get some additional targets. TY did a bit better this week, but still below league AVG. Big delta for MAC, but expected to an extent becoming the #1 TE. 

I’m curious to learn when they measure separation because there were times when the ball was slow to get to the receiver and the corner had time to close that separation 

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1 minute ago, Zoltan said:

I’m curious to learn when they measure separation because there were times when the ball was slow to get to the receiver and the corner had time to close that separation 

posted above

 

Quote

How much separation a receiver is getting from the nearest defender (in yards) at the time of catch/incompletion. The below chart only includes WR’s and TE’s.

 

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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Note - Rivers was #2T W1 and #2 W2

 

This is why you generally have to play like we did in week 2.  Even with the most time to throw in the league, Rivers has 3 INTs and could have more.  Rivers is still a very good QB and you can compete with him, but as the numbers show, he is going to be aggressive.  He's going to force several balls, throw a few jump balls every week.  He just will.  At this stage, you don't want him throwing it 45 times.  If it's that type of game and you are forced to throw it 45 times, that's one thing, but in Jax, we threw it 45 times leading most of the game.  

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2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

All the stats pointed to us either playing more man, or at least playing closer up to the LOS in game 2 to decrease the free WR releases that burnt us W1. It's not like it wasn't a blueprint last year too though lol. 

 

I'm not anti-zone. I'm anti super soft zone, and I'm anti too much zone. In W1, I was super disappointed in the lack of adjustments as it was clear early what they were trying to do. 

 

 

I'm with you on zone versus marshmellow soft zone.  

 

As the one guy said, is there a stat to show the distance from the LOS for routes thrown to or something?  Could the difference also be attributed to what appeared to be a short route gameplan (Jax) v a longer route GP MN?

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21 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

posted above

 

 

Thanks I must of missed it,

with that definition I think Rivers could be contributed to some of the lack of separation, just because of the lack of zip on the ball because it seems there have been quite of few times when the receiver is waiting for the ball to get there and the defender has time to recover.

 

Now I'm not saying its all him or his arm strength because just overall offense timing on plays and comfortability with the quarterback/receivers could affect it as well. I would be interested to see if it improves throughout the season.

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5 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

This is why you generally have to play like we did in week 2.  Even with the most time to throw in the league, Rivers has 3 INTs and could have more.  Rivers is still a very good QB and you can compete with him, but as the numbers show, he is going to be aggressive.  He's going to force several balls, throw a few jump balls every week.  He just will.  At this stage, you don't want him throwing it 45 times.  If it's that type of game and you are forced to throw it 45 times, that's one thing, but in Jax, we threw it 45 times leading most of the game.  

Not sure I understand what you are saying. Rivers has one of the lowest TtTs, not the most. Rivers has 2 INTs that are on him. The 3rd was all on MAC. The first was his getting baited is a bit understandable. The second was in come from behind mode, which is what led to most of his INTs last year. Regardless, 2 are squarely on him. 

 

The W1 one game plan was stone cold dumb vs Jax. Should have never started tossing all over the place and giving up on the run (which Reich owned up to). But yes, Rivers will throw up 50/50 balls. But that's something a QB is supposed to do. He just needs to have WRs and TEs on the same page that are capable of winning 50/50 balls.

 

Overall though, the overall majority of his W1 passes were pretty safe, His AGG% can be managed via game plan and play calling, but that doesn't mean a 40/25 run/pass ratio is required. We play the Jets this weekend, and they are good vs the run. We'll need to throw more than we did last week. Not saying we need to go crazy like we did vs Jax, but it won't be a mirror of the MN game either.

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18 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I'm with you on zone versus marshmellow soft zone.  

 

As the one guy said, is there a stat to show the distance from the LOS for routes thrown to or something?  Could the difference also be attributed to what appeared to be a short route gameplan (Jax) v a longer route GP MN?

Not sure I understand what you are asking.

 

"Cushion" is the distance between the WR/TE and the DB at the time of the snap. Basically how far the DB is playing off the LOS. 

 

Here's the Nextgen def

Quote

 

Average Cushion (CUSH)

The distance (in yards) measured between a WR/TE and the defender they’re lined up against at the time of snap on all targets.

 

 

You can find the WR Cushion stats from Nextgen for any WR/TE that has at least 8 targets on the year (for year AVG), Or per game if they had at least 5 targets. But I have not been able to find a Cushion stat for the D (how far on average a DB or team is playing off a WR/TE). So in short, you can go look each week at opposing WRs/TEs, and get an idea how we covered each, but nothing that rolls it up for our D, or for a specific DB.

 

For the Jax game, only one WR had 5 or more targets. His average cushion was 6.1 yards. To compare that to our WRs, TY was only given 4.1 yards, and Campbell only 4.2. So pretty clear we were giving Jax's WRs more cushion than they ours.

 

Vs MN, we gave Theilen 5.4 yards. They gave Pittman 6.1, TY 5.9, and MAC 5.5. 

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30 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

Thanks I must of missed it,

with that definition I think Rivers could be contributed to some of the lack of separation, just because of the lack of zip on the ball because it seems there have been quite of few times when the receiver is waiting for the ball to get there and the defender has time to recover.

 

Now I'm not saying its all him or his arm strength because just overall offense timing on plays and comfortability with the quarterback/receivers could affect it as well. I would be interested to see if it improves throughout the season.

Chemistry is huge. It should improve as the year goes on. He's a new QB, in a new system, with all new pass catchers. And Covid... 

 

He's had enough zip on balls, he just doesn't bullet every ball like Brissett. Not saying his arm strength isn't declining, but he's never been a bullet launcher.

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31 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Not sure I understand what you are asking.

 

"Cushion" is the distance between the WR/TE and the DB at the time of the snap. Basically how far the DB is playing off the LOS. 

 

Here's the Nextgen def

 

You can find the WR Cushion stats from Nextgen for any WR/TE that has at least 8 targets on the year (for year AVG), Or per game if they had at least 5 targets. But I have not been able to find a Cushion stat for the D (how far on average a DB or team is playing off a WR/TE). So in short, you can go look each week at opposing WRs/TEs, and get an idea how we covered each, but nothing that rolls it up for our D, or for a specific DB.

 

For the Jax game, only one WR had 5 or more targets. His average cushion was 6.1 yards. To compare that to our WRs, TY was only given 4.1 yards, and Campbell only 4.2. So pretty clear we were giving Jax's WRs more cushion than they ours.

 

Vs MN, we gave Theilen 5.4 yards. They gave Pittman 6.1, TY 5.9, and MAC 5.5. 

Thanks.  What I am trying to say is from the perspective of the offense.  Ie. how much time does it take to run the routes or distance from the LOS that they travel when the ball comes out.  What I am saying is is there is probably data that confirms what seemed to be a shorter passing gameplan for JAx and a longer gameplan for MINN.  I don't know if this makes since coming across or not.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Not sure I understand what you are saying. Rivers has one of the lowest TtTs, not the most. .

 

I see now.  I was listening to PFF, talking about how much more time he's had to throw and confused the stats.

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1 minute ago, #12. said:

 

I see now.  I was listening to PFF, talking about how much more time he's had to throw and confused the stats.

Yea, he's got tons more time (if he needs it) this year behind our OL. Chargers OL was ranked like 29th last year. Our OL is probably very happy with his low TtT though. Their jobs are a whole lot easier.

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2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Yea, he's got tons more time (if he needs it) this year behind our OL. Chargers OL was ranked like 29th last year. Our OL is probably very happy with his low TtT though. Their jobs are a whole lot easier.

Campbell was going to a handful running those long crossers with that TTT like he was v JAx.  We really don’t have anyone else  unless TY started doing it.

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5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Campbell was going to a handful running those long crossers with that TTT like he was v JAx.  We really don’t have anyone else  unless TY started doing it.

Hines has the speed to do that, and could easily run out of the slot. I think Reich even mentioned it. Dulin also has speed, and runs like bull to.

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27 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Hines has the speed to do that, and could easily run out of the slot. I think Reich even mentioned it. Dulin also has speed, and runs like bull to.

Last year I was so confused that Hines didn’t play a important roll with all the Campbell injuries. He can do almost all those gadget plays and the slot. . He isn’t as good of a route runner and not as big but he is basically a lesser version Campbell. Hopefully with Rivers we see that this year.

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5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Last year I was so confused that Hines didn’t play a important roll with all the Campbell injuries. He can do almost all those gadget plays and the slot. . He isn’t as good of a route runner and not as big but he is basically a lesser version Campbell. Hopefully with Rivers we see that this year.

He's likely faster than TY now, and about the same height. If he can catch a check down, he can run across the middle. 

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Hines has the speed to do that, and could easily run out of the slot. I think Reich even mentioned it. Dulin also has speed, and runs like bull to.

Yeah.  I was thinking of just the receivers, but hell Yeah.  Why not Hines?

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56 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Yeah.  I was thinking of just the receivers, but hell Yeah.  Why not Hines?

Reich talked about replacing Campbell earlier this week. Check out the front page of the site. Pascal will officially be the starter, but he mentioned several getting work in the slot. He talked about Hines, Pittman, TY, Dulin, and TEs running out of the slot. The TE think is really a meh, as their line up position and routes are already very similar to slot. 

 

I called it earlier in the year before the season that Pascal would be worked more at slot as Pittman took more and more snaps at X. Things are just expedited now. Many on the board have talked about Hines getting time in the slot for 2 years now. I've always thought that if Campbell could stay healthy, he and TY would eventually flip spots anyway. Reich hinted at Campbell moving outside a few times, and that would likely mean TY running some inside slot routes.

 

IDK, Pascal makes a good "big or bully" slot, but doesn't bring traditional speed slot traits. I'd prefer Dulin or Hines get a shot. I also wouldn't mind TY moving in, and using Fountain or Dulin at Z. Patmon could fit in the mix too, if they wanted to run jumbo out of the slot (Pittman or Patmon), or let Patmon work outside opposite Pittman. Lots of combos we could try. 

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