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Coaching/GM seat getting hot? (MERGED)


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My over reaction is Ballard and or Reich’s seat just got a whole lot warmer.  Pure speculation but I feel an ultimatum was handed down from the top to start winning.  There were bold moves made this offseason with how they acquired Rivers, Buckner and Taylor. These draft picks besides Leonard, Q and Smith need to start producing.  Those along with Walker are players to build around but the rest are either role players at best or undecided. 
 

It’s year 4(I can accept 3yrs bc the pagano’s year was a dud) with this front office.  Colts haven’t won the division in 5 years.  This is playoffs or bust mode to me.  I could easily see coordinators being fired after this year but a overhaul is possible.   
 

Disclaimer:  I understand Luck retired.  It’s a crappy situation and not fair.  I’ve said from the get go him leaving would ultimately cost Reich and Ballard their jobs. It’s not their fault but that is business and people get fired all the time for similar situations.  It’s ultimately their job to put a competitive team out there regardless of the situation.  

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Lol,  also 4th and 1 and you send a 170 lb back up the middle deep in the red zone where the defence will stack up and you have a beast of a running back you drafted for plays like this to go up the m

...and Hooker was back to his usual invisibility.

Both are so overrated by this fan base it’s comical.Reich is outcoached almost every single game and the GM lol guess he thinks TY Hilton and Mack are pictures of health year after year huh ? Absolute

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On 9/14/2020 at 1:18 AM, AustinnKaine said:

Run the Damn Ball

 

Loss wasn't because of running. They ran excellently when Mack was in the game.

It's HOW you run when you do it. If you can't convert 4th and 1 at the opponent's end zone then maybe you're in for a long day running.

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On 9/13/2020 at 8:27 PM, coltsfanatic24 said:

The defensive coordinator should certainly be on the hot seat. I think the entire defensive scheme needs to change. Zone coverage with inconsistent pass rush is too easy to beat. Too much talent on the defensive side of the ball to be this bad. 

 

I'm not sure it's the scheme. More a matter of execution. We (Colts fans) complained about scheme under Tony Dungy, we wanted the scheme everyone else was running. Okay. In comes Chuck Pagano and his vaunted Baltimore scheme, how'd that go? (mind you, I think Manusky was a better DC than he was given credit for).

 

Minshew was getting the ball out FAST so the pass rush couldn't get home but that meant things needed to be tighter behind and it wasn't. I am not 100% sure that was schematic.

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On 9/14/2020 at 1:23 AM, GoColts8818 said:

Which still doesn’t stop the other teams QB from completing 95% of his passes.  Remember when Peyton Manning beat Miami without having the ball for a quarter of the game?  If your defense can’t stop the other teams offense TOP doesn’t mean much.  For the record the Colts won TOP today 33:23 to 26:37.  Didn’t help much did it?

 

Exactly! Tony Dungy would preach 'EXECUTION' non stop. His offense was simple, defense was simple. You've got to execute. In retrospect, Rivers was mainly good in the game but for 3 or 4 sloppy passes and things came unraveling because there was no room for error. When the room for error is marginal, you have to execute perfectly. The Colts were sloppy mainly on defense. That game should have been a double digit W.

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  • Shive changed the title to Coaching/GM seat getting hot? (MERGED)
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2 hours ago, Myles said:

You get a solid confirmation of that from 1 game?   The first game of a season where there was no preseason.  

no but i do see where he's getting that notion from. It is a bit concerning.  I said in another post that if we don't look better by week 3 in all phases, then I'll really start being concerned.

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1 hour ago, csmopar said:

no but i do see where he's getting that notion from. It is a bit concerning.  I said in another post that if we don't look better by week 3 in all phases, then I'll really start being concerned.

That's reasonable though, because you'd be basing that concern on a larger data set. We wrecked KC last season, yet they won the SB. Any team can win any given week and some teams just match up really well against other teams. If we see the same issues continuing week after week, freaking out would definitely be warranted.

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On 9/13/2020 at 6:14 PM, Riversrun said:

Both are so overrated by this fan base it’s comical.Reich is outcoached almost every single game and the GM lol guess he thinks TY Hilton and Mack are pictures of health year after year huh ? Absolute certainty they get fired if they don’t make playoffs lol this is Paethetic honestly letting Gardner destroy this team .Humiliating 

 

the only absolute certainty is that you are wrong.

 

 

On 9/13/2020 at 6:04 PM, JPFolks said:

0-3 in coaching first games. 

0-4 for the GM. 

Uninspired play calling, especially in the second half. 

Vaunted rushing game tepid. Vaunted O-Line looked average.

Our first pick was barely visible and had no impact. 

Superstar trade player invisible all game. 

QB acquisition looked as bad or worse than last season. 

Secondary play horrendous.  Our Defense made Minshew look like Drew Brees last year, 19/20 passing.  The defense picked right up from last year. 2nd best % in history?

 

People will talk.  

 

On paper, we lost to the shallowest depth (by their own coaches admission) team in the league and even with multiple starters hurt, they shut us down when it counted over and over. 

 

On the plus side we're still in the hunt for the #1 pick! Perhaps 3rd time will be the charm for #1 QB picks in Indy?

Or perhaps they will crawl out of this hole too.

 

They better or the talking will turn to shouting.  Reich said they had the talent to win it all. If that is true then his coaching was to blame. 

 

Really?  After ONE GAME which comes off the most unusual offseason in the past 15 years (probably much, much longer). 

 

 

On 9/13/2020 at 7:36 PM, JPFolks said:

Wasn't thinking about fans. Who thinks about them? Clearly not the Colts or NFL.  Pagano at most should have left with the GM. Hindsight proved that to be true.

 

And if Grigson's win % got him fired then what about Ballard's? Fans hated Grigson and what do you know, Irsay agreed with them and fired him first. Huh... funny that. 

 

The team wasn't ready. The play calling was flat. The defense was flat minus a couple sacks.  

 

 

To Pagano, yes hindsight shows he should have been fired with Grigson.  however with the info they had at the time I still have no problem with them having kept Pagano around for a year with Ballard.

 

To Grigson, who said his win % got him fired?  His inability to field a competent OL is what got him fired.

 

On 9/14/2020 at 12:33 AM, Moosejawcolt said:

So how do we change? Ballard has drafted light defensive players to fit this zone scheme. Changing schemes would almost result in s complete tear down

 

No it wouldn't...not even close.  They could switch to a Wade Philips/Vic Fangio 3-4 defense pretty easily if they wanted to.  Personally I'd just like to see them be more aggressive.  Something like a Steve Spagnuolo/Marvin Lewis defensive scheme which would also largely work with the players we have currently.

 

 

23 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

I shouldn't have said "Ballard's scheme"...but from his own quote about the T2 defense...it would imply that it's his preference for a scheme.

 

But even if the scheme is on the coaches...he is responsible for getting the players for that scheme...so also should shoulder some of the criticism when that scheme isn't working. It's very rarely 100% on the coaching staff when there are issues. 

 

 

actually in this case I think  you were correct.  It was either Ballard or McDaniels that chose the tampa-2.  It wasn't Reich's decision. 

 

17 hours ago, Thunderbolt said:

I hear you Lucky, just stating the facts.  Reich has had many opportunities and chances to improve this team in many ways the last few years, and it hasn't happen....Latest one for example is the game yesterday.  Reich should have done a lot better with personnel changes, ex: why wasn't Taylor carrying the workload, and having him to run more since we are a first run team, instead using Hines on key plays... The defense, which he is to oversee has not improved much since trading for D. Buckner.  The zone defense is obviously not working, as you can see all the missed assignments yesterday.  The Colts made a star out of a sophomore QB Minshew.  Just frustrated that's all, waiting for some drastic improvement....

 

All of your posts are hilarious over-exaggeration but the bolded is especially stupid.  The defense has played ONE GAME since having traded for Buckner.  ONE!   Perspective is an amazing thing.

 

 

3 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

My over reaction is Ballard and or Reich’s seat just got a whole lot warmer.  Pure speculation but I feel an ultimatum was handed down from the top to start winning.  There were bold moves made this offseason with how they acquired Rivers, Buckner and Taylor. These draft picks besides Leonard, Q and Smith need to start producing.  Those along with Walker are players to build around but the rest are either role players at best or undecided. 
 

It’s year 4(I can accept 3yrs bc the pagano’s year was a dud) with this front office.  Colts haven’t won the division in 5 years.  This is playoffs or bust mode to me.  I could easily see coordinators being fired after this year but a overhaul is possible.   
 

Disclaimer:  I understand Luck retired.  It’s a crappy situation and not fair.  I’ve said from the get go him leaving would ultimately cost Reich and Ballard their jobs. It’s not their fault but that is business and people get fired all the time for similar situations.  It’s ultimately their job to put a competitive team out there regardless of the situation.  

 

I guarantee you that did not happen. 

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On 9/13/2020 at 6:49 PM, rockywoj said:

Pretty positive HOF Dungy would’ve taken those give me 3 pts early, instead of going for it 4th and 1.  I fundamentally disagree with not taking those points that early, already up 7-0.   My one complaint about Reich is this trendy “aggressiveness”, to the sacrifice of early 3 point give me’s, for those missed points seem to always come back and bite ya.  Maybe not the reason for the loss, but a coaching decision I loathe.

I thought the same thing. 

I said to my brother the Colts would regret not kicking that field goal. 

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Reich shouldn't be fired but his play-calling has certainly grown stale. I don't know if that is a product of the QB play or what, but he def doesn't seem like the same innovate guy he started out.

 

DC needs to be on the hot seat. Actually think the defensively philosophy needs to be trashed all together. We do a great job of letting QB's get into rhythm for long stretches. Safeties on the back end make no impact plays. RBs catching out the backfield have been something we give up repeatedly.

 

Tired of sitting back in the zone or Tampa 2 

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On 9/13/2020 at 5:04 PM, JPFolks said:

0-3 in coaching first games. 

0-4 for the GM. 

Uninspired play calling, especially in the second half. 

Vaunted rushing game tepid. Vaunted O-Line looked average.

Our first pick was barely visible and had no impact. 

Superstar trade player invisible all game. 

QB acquisition looked as bad or worse than last season. 

Secondary play horrendous.  Our Defense made Minshew look like Drew Brees last year, 19/20 passing.  The defense picked right up from last year. 2nd best % in history?

 

People will talk.  

 

On paper, we lost to the shallowest depth (by their own coaches admission) team in the league and even with multiple starters hurt, they shut us down when it counted over and over. 

 

On the plus side we're still in the hunt for the #1 pick! Perhaps 3rd time will be the charm for #1 QB picks in Indy?

Or perhaps they will crawl out of this hole too.

 

They better or the talking will turn to shouting.  Reich said they had the talent to win it all. If that is true then his coaching was to blame. 

What plays could they have called in the 2nd half that would have indicated inspired play calling?

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Reich seems to be a aggressive play caller. They need someone to run the defense like that. Seems Reich and Eberflus philosophy is totally different. This is why Eberflus would be the first to go. Then Reich can find someone who thinks the same way.  

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If this team has so much talent, and the draft picks have all been great, then someone needs to be held responsible. I’m not saying fire Reich, but the possibility has to be open at the end of the year if things don’t turn around. People are under the impression he’s a good coach because he goes for it on 4th down, but there’s a lot more that goes into it than that.

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Maybe they need to focus on playing football...since they are a football team...instead of all the other "stuff" they seem to be focused on. They just lost to the worst team in the league and looked like crap doing it.   :flaming:

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3 minutes ago, k9copinmd said:

Maybe they need to focus on playing football...since they are a football team...instead of all the other "stuff" they seem to be focused on. They just lost to the worst team in the league and looked like crap doing it.   :flaming:

Yeah I don’t think the “other stuff” was a factor in the loss.  

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4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

distractions are never a good thing. Regardless of the reason

I don’t think that was a distraction and I don’t think Frank devoted much time to it and I don’t think it took away from him preparing for the game.  It’s not like I think he was sitting in meetings where he’d go over the game plan and thinking man what should I do for the anthem?  This seems like a reach to condemn something that some didn’t like to start with and say it’s impacting the game when it’s not.

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Eberflus, that is about it because the D looked bad the last month of last season as well. Reich's job isn't and shouldn't be in jeopardy at all. Now if we go 7-9 again or worse and miss the playoffs, I will change my tune. Ballard is considered by almost every owner as a top 10 GM in the league, he will be fine at least another 2 or 3 years.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Eberflus, that is about it because the D looked bad the last month of last season as well. Reich's job isn't and shouldn't be in jeopardy at all. Now if we go 7-9 again or worse and miss the playoffs, I will change my tune. Ballard is considered by almost every owner as a top 10 GM in the league, he will be fine at least another 2 or 3 years.

Spot on.  I don’t expect any changes in season at all but I do think if things don’t get figured out there is a very high chance Eberflus could be gone in the off-season.

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4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t think that was a distraction and I don’t think Frank devoted much time to it and I don’t think it took away from him preparing for the game.  It’s not like I think he was sitting in meetings where he’d go over the game plan and thinking man what should I do for the anthem?  This seems like a reach to condemn something that some didn’t like to start with and say it’s impacting the game when it’s not.

im not talking about that.  I'm talking about the skipping of practice for a day the other week. Whether or not it directly impacts, i cant say and neither can you. But for years we've heard that distractions are bad and to limit distractions. So the theory is there. Because its very obvious, this team needs for practice time.  And badly.

 

and what did Frank do for the anthem? I missed the pre-game stuff. 

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1 minute ago, csmopar said:

im not talking about that.  I'm talking about the skipping of practice for a day the other week. Whether or not it directly impacts, i cant say and neither can you. But for years we've heard that distractions are bad and to limit distractions. So the theory is there. Because its very obvious, this team needs for practice time.  And badly.

 

and what did Frank do for the anthem? I missed the pre-game stuff. 

He kneeled.  I took other stuff to mean that.  As much time was missed this off-season for a variety of reasons I don’t think one day is the end of the world.  Is it perfect?  No.  Can it be made up?  Yes.

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1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

He kneeled.  

:corner:

 

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

 As much time was missed this off-season for a variety of reasons I don’t think one day is the end of the world.  Is it perfect?  No.  Can it be made up?  Yes.

maybe, we'll see. still think distractions should be limited or eliminated as much as possible.

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3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

:corner:

 

maybe, we'll see. still think distractions should be limited or eliminated as much as possible.

I think missing a day of a practice was an attempt to do that.  If they did nothing it would have been a bigger story that hung over them (and other teams) and it would have festered with the players.  

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1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think missing a day of a practice was an attempt to do that.  If they did nothing it would have been a bigger story that hung over them (and other teams) and it would have festered with the players.  

That is a valid point as well. With that said, if it were me, I’d held a player meeting, talked about it and their experiences, then practiced. In the end, while these players are human and no doubtly are well aware of what’s going on, they’re getting paid to play football and win. So when practice times hit, that’s what needs to be done. But it quite obviously is not my call.
 

I actually did this with my platoon back in June when this all happened. I made time to sit them all down, let everyone voice their opinions and concerns and ideas. At the end of it, we had to complete our mission. And we did. Granted not the exact same thing, but I think you can see what I mean. 

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Here is a interview Eberflus did today. He talked about what happened Sunday and why. He also mentioned they were trying some new things. Plus how they will try to fix it.

 

Good let’s hope it works. 

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Here is a interview Eberflus did today. He talked about what happened Sunday and why. He also mentioned they were trying some new things. Plus how they will try to fix it.

 

I don’t expect much from interviews like this. Softball questions and coach speak answers. But the bottom line is whether or not this guy has the ability and skills to change their coverage schemes. Because hey..... they’re NOT working! And they will never work with a QB who gets the ball out quickly. The theme of the week has to be: Tighten Up. Close those gaps and don’t let them dink you to death. The fact that this has to be said at this point in Flus’ time here as DC is so frustrating. I’m hoping for better days on D.....but really wondering if this DC has what it takes to create a winning defense. 

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9 hours ago, Shive said:

That's reasonable though, because you'd be basing that concern on a larger data set. We wrecked KC last season, yet they won the SB. Any team can win any given week and some teams just match up really well against other teams. If we see the same issues continuing week after week, freaking out would definitely be warranted.

good post

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13 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

What plays could they have called in the 2nd half that would have indicated inspired play calling?

Oh I don't know, perhaps something that wouldn't require your 38 year old QB to toss over 45 passes? Or maybe not running up the middle with a 170 pound receiving back when you just spent a trade up 2nd round pick on a up the middle monster back? Or maybe something a little more innovative on 4th down plays, or perhaps just taking the points and taking the other team seriously early in the game? How about something that wouldn't placate a back up QB and risk blowing up another drive? (Sure, they scored a play later, but that play could have easily cost us a TD.  Everyone knew, incl. the defense, what was going to happen when he entered the game.  On and on.  It wasn't like we were 3 TD's down, it was a tight game that could have used some running game to make it less predictable.  They had multiple injuries on their very shallow depth team in the second half, but they couldn't call plays to effectively take advantage of that fact.  20 points against arguably the worst team on our schedule? That was the best our "genius" "innovative" coach could do against inferior talent?  If that WAS his best effort, how do we compete the rest of the season? If it was less than he could do, why did he phone it in? Did he believe the Jags were tanking and would let a second rate effort beat them so they could get the #1 pick?  It looked more like WE were going for the #1 pick than the Jags.  They looked inspired.  We looked bored and sleepy by comparison.  

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15 hours ago, Shive said:

That's reasonable though, because you'd be basing that concern on a larger data set. We wrecked KC last season, yet they won the SB. Any team can win any given week and some teams just match up really well against other teams. If we see the same issues continuing week after week, freaking out would definitely be warranted.

We have seen the same issues.  The final 6 games of last year looked much like this game.  They say players have been upgraded, holes have been plugged and they're new season healthy.  Then you give up another of the two worst defensive performances (1 incompletion in two games out of a handful?) something that is unheard of in NFL history?  The team looked exactly as unprepared and disengaged as it did last year.  So yes, that is already cause for concern.  Many different players, same coaches, same GM.  Same problems.  By far our easiest away game of the season.  How many more flat games are needed for you to be concerned? 1? 2 out of 3?  After the season regardless of the record? 

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11 hours ago, Hoose said:

I don’t expect much from interviews like this. Softball questions and coach speak answers. But the bottom line is whether or not this guy has the ability and skills to change their coverage schemes. Because hey..... they’re NOT working! And they will never work with a QB who gets the ball out quickly. The theme of the week has to be: Tighten Up. Close those gaps and don’t let them dink you to death. The fact that this has to be said at this point in Flus’ time here as DC is so frustrating. I’m hoping for better days on D.....but really wondering if this DC has what it takes to create a winning defense. 

Rhoades also did a interview and talked how they won’t be playing so far off and will play closer to the line of scrimmage.

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5 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Oh I don't know, perhaps something that wouldn't require your 38 year old QB to toss over 45 passes? Or maybe not running up the middle with a 170 pound receiving back when you just spent a trade up 2nd round pick on a up the middle monster back? Or maybe something a little more innovative on 4th down plays, or perhaps just taking the points and taking the other team seriously early in the game? How about something that wouldn't placate a back up QB and risk blowing up another drive? (Sure, they scored a play later, but that play could have easily cost us a TD.  Everyone knew, incl. the defense, what was going to happen when he entered the game.  On and on.  It wasn't like we were 3 TD's down, it was a tight game that could have used some running game to make it less predictable.  They had multiple injuries on their very shallow depth team in the second half, but they couldn't call plays to effectively take advantage of that fact.  20 points against arguably the worst team on our schedule? That was the best our "genius" "innovative" coach could do against inferior talent?  If that WAS his best effort, how do we compete the rest of the season? If it was less than he could do, why did he phone it in? Did he believe the Jags were tanking and would let a second rate effort beat them so they could get the #1 pick?  It looked more like WE were going for the #1 pick than the Jags.  They looked inspired.  We looked bored and sleepy by comparison.  


Wow.

 

Overreact much?

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5 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Oh I don't know, perhaps something that wouldn't require your 38 year old QB to toss over 45 passes?

So, you don't know.  When the Colts were winning or tied they were still running the ball regularly, so I guess it was inspired play calling.

5 hours ago, JPFolks said:

 

Or maybe not running up the middle with a 170 pound receiving back when you just spent a trade up 2nd round pick on a up the middle monster back?

You mean like the similar play with the 170 pound receiving back (actually he's 200lbs but don't worry about facts) that he scored on a 12 yard TD run earlier in the game?

5 hours ago, JPFolks said:

 

Or maybe something a little more innovative on 4th down plays, or perhaps just taking the points and taking the other team seriously early in the game?

Innovative, inspired, give some specific examples?  Also the Colts went for it on 4th down in the redzone in the 1st half, I thought is was uninspired 2nd half play calling.

5 hours ago, JPFolks said:

 

How about something that wouldn't placate a back up QB and risk blowing up another drive? (Sure, they scored a play later, but that play could have easily cost us a TD. 

I didn't understand the JB play call either, but isn't that an example of inspired play calling

5 hours ago, JPFolks said:

 

Everyone knew, incl. the defense, what was going to happen when he entered the game.  On and on.

This seems to be a common narrative but how?  JB is not a running, athletic QB, nor did he run a lot of bootlegs to his left last year, so how exactly did everyone know what was going to happen?  Again that was in the 1st half and the Colts scored a TD.

5 hours ago, JPFolks said:

 

  It wasn't like we were 3 TD's down, it was a tight game that could have used some running game to make it less predictable.  They had multiple injuries on their very shallow depth team in the second half, but they couldn't call plays to effectively take advantage of that fact.  20 points against arguably the worst team on our schedule? That was the best our "genius" "innovative" coach could do against inferior talent?  If that WAS his best effort, how do we compete the rest of the season? If it was less than he could do, why did he phone it in? Did he believe the Jags were tanking and would let a second rate effort beat them so they could get the #1 pick?  It looked more like WE were going for the #1 pick than the Jags.  They looked inspired.  We looked bored and sleepy by comparison.  

So basically, you don't have any ideas on what they could have done, you just like complaining that what they did do didn't work.

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5 hours ago, JPFolks said:

We have seen the same issues.  The final 6 games of last year looked much like this game.  They say players have been upgraded, holes have been plugged and they're new season healthy.  Then you give up another of the two worst defensive performances (1 incompletion in two games out of a handful?) something that is unheard of in NFL history?  The team looked exactly as unprepared and disengaged as it did last year.  So yes, that is already cause for concern.  Many different players, same coaches, same GM.  Same problems.  By far our easiest away game of the season.  How many more flat games are needed for you to be concerned? 1? 2 out of 3?  After the season regardless of the record? 

I think this criticism is valid. For a team that uses analytics (not just data collection), evolutionary computer simulations could have identified comparative weaknesses in the defensive scheme. The primary advantage of using science in engineering (yes, even football games) is reducing risks. You don't have to play a perfect game, just a better game than your competition. In this regard, you don't practice until you get it right, you practice until you can't get it wrong.

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Both Ballard and Reich should be on the hot seat. Reich because Rivers is his guy and if he fails miserably at 25 mil. that is on Reich. Especially if Cam stars for Patriots at 1 million. Ballard because he chose to trade our no. 1 pick for Buckner and give him a big contract to be our missing piece to our defense. If our defense struggles all season and Kinlaw turns into a beast at a rookie contract then that is the kind of decision that gets people fired

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16 minutes ago, BigO said:

Both Ballard and Reich should be on the hot seat. Reich because Rivers is his guy and if he fails miserably at 25 mil. that is on Reich. Especially if Cam stars for Patriots at 1 million. Ballard because he chose to trade our no. 1 pick for Buckner and give him a big contract to be our missing piece to our defense. If our defense struggles all season and Kinlaw turns into a beast at a rookie contract then that is the kind of decision that gets people fired

Horse dung.

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27 minutes ago, BigO said:

Both Ballard and Reich should be on the hot seat. Reich because Rivers is his guy and if he fails miserably at 25 mil. that is on Reich. Especially if Cam stars for Patriots at 1 million. Ballard because he chose to trade our no. 1 pick for Buckner and give him a big contract to be our missing piece to our defense. If our defense struggles all season and Kinlaw turns into a beast at a rookie contract then that is the kind of decision that gets people fired

They added Buckner to be a guy who improves the defense. Not to be the missing piece. That's something you've made up. Obviously. If you look at last year's defense, there was more than one missing piece.  

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