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3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Generally people watch and change their viewpoints over time when they gain new information. I can't believe you are literally criticizing me over that in a sport such as football where we have sample sizes and we have to learn as we go during a season. The bad coaching supports it, the bad team, the lack of effort on offense and defense. If you watched the Jets play during the last 18 games with Adam Gase you'd agree with me. 

 

I'm criticizing the overreactions.

 

If, God forbid, we lose a close game to the Jets, how bad will your overreactions be?

 

Will you jump the bandwagon again to grab your torch and pitchfork and start calling for heads to roll?  Again?

 

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Were we watching the same Taylor?   Because I thought he looked tantalizingly fast, talented, and physical for a rookie RB.   Also looked better catching the ball than I ever expec

Taylor should have gotten the ball on that 4th and 1.

And the history of bad threads from the ol Nickster continues...  

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6 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Jets lost nearly the their whole wr corp and their best back is gore 

Thank you for using "corp" not core.  

 

Sorry to be off topic, but people using "core" when they mean "corp" is a pet peeve of mine :).

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Just now, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I'm criticizing the overreactions.

 

If, God forbid, we lose a close game to the Jets, how bad will your overreactions be?

 

Will you jump the bandwagon again to grab your torch and pitchfork and start calling for heads to roll?  Again?

 

What team did I jump the bandwagon too? I don't recall rooting for another team. I stand by my Jags reaction. Even if I underrated them, that gives no excuse for Reich and the coaching staff to do so over and over again. It's beyond ridiculous now that they would take the same opponent so lightly every time. 

 

The Jets would literally be worse than losing to the Jags in the sense that they don't care anymore. The Jags are showing they care with how they played both us and Tenn. The Jets don't even try. Once again, worst team in the NFL, injured all over, worst coach in the NFL, and they are literally mailing it in if you pay attention to them (my Aunt is a Jets fan, so I do to an extent). All they do is check it down with screen passes and run it down the middle (they won't even have Bell to do so). 

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21 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I think you're going to change your argument each week to fit your narrative.  Because for some illogical reason, you have chosen the "JT Unimpressive" hill to make your stand.

 

Last week, it was an "unimpressive" stat-line at 22 yds on 9 carries (you kept beating that drum over and over and over), and being "unimpressive" between the tackles.

 

This week, his stat-line is much better at 100+ yds and 1 TD on 26 carries (even though you're still nitpicking his sub 4.0 avg).  So "leaving yds on the field" is your main gripe now because he ran well between the tackles (dude was a people-mover this week), but didn't break off a big run?  Did you watch the game?  Did you notice that almost every time he hit the hole, it was with both hands covering the ball, and he finished almost every run with both hands over the ball?  Hmmm... maybe the gameplan this week wasn't getting cute to get extra yds, maybe it was protecting the ball, ie no turnovers, which is what lost us the game last week...  hmmm... controlling the clock... hmmm... doing exactly what they did to get a dominant win... hmmm... just maybe!

Unimpressive means just that.  I personally have been unimpressed with the guys running compared to his hype.  It is what I observed on how poor he is running laterally with the LOS.  I have said what he has done well and that he will be valuable but I don't think he is going to be one of the top type of RBs.  I haven't changed anyting.

 

Now one thing I've said over and over, is that I meant last week unimpresive running.

 

For instance.  The UDFA from Jax has been very impressive.  He has 32 carries for around 170 and JT has the same number of carries for around 120.

 

My position is just about any NFL RB probably gains at least 101 yds on 26 carries behind this Oline.  I thought over all he looked average.  Poor cutting the ball up field, but good finishing runs with power.  I think we are going to need another guy.  

 

one thing I've said numerous times is that we have needed a short yardage guy for about 20 years, and we have one.  That's great.

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13 hours ago, Nickster said:

I don’t think that has anything to do with what I’m talking about.  Colts like to run parallel to the line of scrimmage. JT is not suited for that. I think this is fairly obvious.

 

We need another player who can run laterally.  He is food running North south when the hole is where it is supposed to be. 
 

Several times he ran right into the pile when there were yds to the left or right. Just watch the cut ups If you don’t beleive me.

 

Ok I do think you have a valid point but you're also way exaggerating it imo.  I think both Taylor and Wilkins perform better in power blocking scheme than they do in the zone/stretch.  However I think both will be fine in a zone/stretch, it's just not using them to the best of their abilities.  Colts already use both zone and power blocking but the ratio currently highly favors zone.  If Reich is the coach we want him to be he'll recognize this and adjust to using more power blocking.

 

 

 I do think he left some yards on the field, but at the same time proclaiming after his very first start that we need someone else is very premature. :P

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10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I mean he’s just the first Colts rookie running back to do it since Vick Ballard did it and the second to do it since Joseph Addai.

Well man since Edge, the Colts haven't really put much stock in rbs

 

17 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

I have to agree with you.  I wasn't blown away.  Good first start, but he has room to improve.

 

I honestly thought Wilkins looked better.  He's certainly a capable #2.  I never understood why so many people wanted to get rid of him.  From day one, every time he's gotten an opportunity he's been solid as hell.

I thought Wilkins looked a little better too.  I think they need to let him carry more, but I really think they need another guy.  They need an RB that can run lateral and cut in additon to JT and Wilkins even downhill type of style.

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Well man since Edge, the Colts haven't really put much stock in rbs

 

They did spend first round picks on both Addai and Donald Brown.  Wilkins actually reminds me quite a bit of Donald Brown.

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11 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

Wow , just wow. 2nd NFL game, first as a starter on a brand new team. He averaged over 2,050 yds a year in the Big 10 in his 3 years and you say he lacks vision and definitely lacks lateral quickness. Are you saying he never had it or he lost it since college? How many backs in the B10 average over 2.050 yds per year? How can you do that when you lack vision and lateral quickness?

Every Wisco back since Ron Dayne has had Huge numbers and hardly any of them have been good pros.  Look up Wisco RBs man.  Huge huge numbers every year since the mid 90s.  

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17 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Thank you for using "corp" not core.  

 

Sorry to be off topic, but people using "core" when they mean "corp" is a pet peeve of mine :).

i th ink you mean corps

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11 hours ago, Nickster said:

You don’t have to talk about me behind my back.  I’m right here.

 

JK.  You dudes are funny though.  Some of you seem to have a lot personally invested in My opinion of Jonathan Taylor’s 35 NFL carries for 123 yds.

 You forgot to add his 8 receptions for 76 yards, so he has 43 touches for 199 yards (4.63 yards per touch) in his 1st two games as a pro.

 

That is more than Zeke had in his 1st two games, 45 touches for 139 yards (3.09 yards per touch)

And not too far behind Barkley (45 touches for 236 yards)  

 

And both of them were game 1 starters.

 

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10 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Ok I do think you have a valid point but you're also way exaggerating it imo.  I think both Taylor and Wilkins perform better in power blocking scheme than they do in the zone/stretch.  However I think both will be fine in a zone/stretch, it's just not using them to the best of their abilities.  Colts already use both zone and power blocking but the ratio currently highly favors zone.  If Reich is the coach we want him to be he'll recognize this and adjust to using more power blocking.

 

 

 I do think he left some yards on the field, but at the same time proclaiming after his very first start that we need someone else is very premature. :P

Thanks man.  I have said I have not been impressed man.  That is not an exaggeration.  I have not been overly impressed with his runnning yet.  


Impressed with power.  Yes, said so today.  Impress with straght line speed.  Yes, said so last week.  

 

The stretch is vital to many teams offense.  It's what made the Colts so deadly in the Manning era.  You can't just drop those plays and play smashmouth 80s style FB inthe leage

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11 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

They did spend first round picks on both Addai and Donald Brown.  Wilkins actually reminds me quite a bit of Donald Brown.

Addai was pretty good his first two years.  He was drafted that highly for his pass pro in the manning era.  He was one of the best I've every seen at picking up the blitzer, etc.

 

Taylor reminds me of Brown only much bigger.  Brown had crazy straight line acceleration but often got lost running the stretch.  

 

There was the Trich debacle.  

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8 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

 You forgot to add his 8 receptions for 76 yards, so he has 43 touches for 199 yards (4.63 yards per touch) in his 1st two games as a pro.

 

That is more than Zeke had in his 1st two games, 45 touches for 139 yards (3.09 yards per touch)

And not too far behind Barkley (45 touches for 236 yards)  

 

And both of them were game 1 starters.

 

Yeah, I messed up the thread from the beginning.  I should have entilted the thread "JT Unimpressive Running" when I started it.  That is what I meant. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Thanks man.  I have said I have not been impressed man.  That is not an exaggeration.  I have not been overly impressed with his runnning yet.  


Impressed with power.  Yes, said so today.  Impress with straght line speed.  Yes, said so last week.  

 

The stretch is vital to many teams offense.  It's what made the Colts so deadly in the Manning era.  You can't just drop those plays and play smashmouth 80s style FB inthe leage

 

again the exaggeration lol.  I didn't say they need to drop the stretch play and switch to zmashmouth 80s style FB running. 

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1 minute ago, Rackeen305 said:

This is obviously "not true" - Donald J Trump

People can be impressed or not impressed with whomever they want.  Just like me, I've never been impressed with Wilkins, he goes down on first contact too often for my liking.  He's opportunistic and has great speed so when the hole is there he hits it fast but he's not an impressive runner.  Nickster has every right to not be impressed with JT.  

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5 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

again the exaggeration lol.  I didn't say they need to drop the stretch play and switch to zmashmouth 80s style FB running. 

Fair enough.  I don't think what I said was exaggerative, but that often depends on perception.

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Fair enough.  I don't think what I said was exaggerative, but that often depends on perception.

 

my point was that the colts already utilize both power blocking and zone blocking.  I saw both in the game yesterday.  Currently though, they run more zone than power.  I think and hope they will alter that to running more power than zone which plays to the strengths of both Taylor and Wilkins.  Power blocking can be done from the shotgun.  Doesn't require an I-formation and FB anymore. :)

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31 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Thanks man.  I have said I have not been impressed man.  That is not an exaggeration.  I have not been overly impressed with his runnning yet.  


Impressed with power.  Yes, said so today.  Impress with straght line speed.  Yes, said so last week.  

 

The stretch is vital to many teams offense.  It's what made the Colts so deadly in the Manning era.  You can't just drop those plays and play smashmouth 80s style FB inthe leage

Lets start then. If JT was not impressive to you on the offensive side of the ball, can you tell me who or what was? Lets just say that JT has already done something which hasn't been done in like 7 years with the Colts. A rookie run for 100+ yrds in a game.

 

What else does he need to do to be impressive by your standards via 2 games in his rookie season? ............break the single game rushing record?

 

Or are you saying the way/style in which he has done it, isnt't your favorite way of doing things (which makes no since to me. Barkley is different from Alvin Kamara, from Sony Michel, from Mark Ingram, etc. So is JT. By the way, I dont think any RB can be Edge 2.0. They don't grow on trees like that. A RB such as Edge who's that size, but yet still faster(4.38) than Barkley and JT. By the way, name me another team running the stretch as you alluded to? 

 

More teams are going to the multi-factor QB than stretch plays, but I can be wrong... (see Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Mahomes, even Justin Herbert) 

 

BTW, Peyton Manning or no one who plays close to him wont be walking through any team's doors anytime soon. Perhaps Sunshine, but even Sunshine is different from Peyton.

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15 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

my point was that the colts already utilize both power blocking and zone blocking.  I saw both in the game yesterday.  Currently though, they run more zone than power.  I think and hope they will alter that to running more power than zone which plays to the strengths of both Taylor and Wilkins.  Power blocking can be done from the shotgun.  Doesn't require an I-formation and FB anymore. :)

 

Oh I agree.  My comment about I is that I think he would have been well suited for that kind of downhill running.  I also think he is better suited for a pro set than single back.  You can run power with a single back, but you still can't be predictable and run stright on every play.  That is the advantage of a pro set.  The D doesn't know who will get the ball.  It's not as hard to key on a single back.

 

That's why the lateral runs are so important.  They set up the play action.  You can key on the back but when the QB pulls the string, you can be left with your pants down when you do that. 

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13 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Lets start then. If JT was not impressive to you on the offensive side of the ball, can you tell me who or what was? Lets just say that JT has already done something which hasn't been done in like 7 years with the Colts. A rookie run for 100+ yrds in a game.

 

What else does he need to do to be impressive by your standards via 2 games in his rookie season? ............break the single game rushing record?

Nope.  not looking for single game rushing record.  Maybe a better game than James Robinson has had running the ball?  Maybe  exceeding league average ypc in  a game?  Maybe showing some vision and hitting a hole that "isn't there?" Maybe getting more yds that is blocked a few times?  Maybe being a little creative in the hole?

 

I've said several times that is speed and power finishing runs are impressive and that he will be the short yardage back we've needed literlly for a couple of decades.

 

But it's mostly eye test.  I think he is going to be limited and will need a complementary RB to take some of the plays that he is not particularly suited for. 

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Nope.  not looking for single game rushing record.  Maybe a better game than James Robinson has had running the ball?  Maybe actually exceeding league average ypc in  a game?

 

I've said several times that is speed and power finishing runs are impressive and that he will be the short yardage back we've needed literlly for a couple of decades.

 

But it's mostly eye test.  I think he is going to be limited in the type of plays he is going to excel at and will need a complementary RB to take some of the plays that he is not particularly suited for. 

 

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30 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

my point was that the colts already utilize both power blocking and zone blocking.  I saw both in the game yesterday.  Currently though, they run more zone than power.  I think and hope they will alter that to running more power than zone which plays to the strengths of both Taylor and Wilkins.  Power blocking can be done from the shotgun.  Doesn't require an I-formation and FB anymore. :)

Issa Rae Dancing GIF

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2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Nick all of your points are super subjective. Once Campbell got hurt, to spark the team and to move forward, it was the play of JT that gave coach Frank confidence that his play calling could still work, and not be a repeat of Jacksonville. After the Campbell injury the Colts ran the ball like 3-4 straight plays, resulting in a TD if im not mistaken.

 

As I mentioned earlier:

Or are you saying the way/style in which he has done it, isnt't your favorite way of doing things (which makes no since to me. Barkley is different from Alvin Kamara, from Sony Michel, from Mark Ingram, etc. So is JT. By the way, I dont think any RB can be Edge 2.0. They don't grow on trees like that. A RB such as Edge who's that size, but yet still faster(4.38) than Barkley and JT. By the way, name me another team running the stretch as you alluded to? 

 

More teams are going to the multi-factor QB than stretch plays, but I can be wrong... (see Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Mahomes, even Justin Herbert) 

 

BTW, Peyton Manning or no one who plays close to him wont be walking through any team's doors anytime soon. Perhaps Sunshine, but even Sunshine is different from Peyton.

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28 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

my point was that the colts already utilize both power blocking and zone blocking.  I saw both in the game yesterday.  Currently though, they run more zone than power.  I think and hope they will alter that to running more power than zone which plays to the strengths of both Taylor and Wilkins.  Power blocking can be done from the shotgun.  Doesn't require an I-formation and FB anymore. :)

 

Oh and the Colts almost kept a FB this year.  They must have been considering to put some I or pro type sets in there.  I think JT would be more "impressive" in that type of scheme.

 

THere appears  be a trend emerging to go back to 2 back offenses too.

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

What team did I jump the bandwagon too? I don't recall rooting for another team. I stand by my Jags reaction.

 

I didn't say you jumped onto another teams bandwagon, I'm saying you jump off the Colts bandwagon.

 

Which is what you'll do if we lose to the Jets.  And then you'll hop back on the Colts bandwagon if the Colts beat a 3-0 Bears team, and then off if we lose to the Browns, and then on, and then off...

 

Like last week when you made a thread wanting us to "convince you to keep watching" as if the wheels had completely fallen off the Colts bandwagon.  Yet here you are all optimistic after a dominant win...

 

Your up-and-down back-and-forth posts make Colts fans look like fairweather fans.  And I don't mean that as an attack or criticism, I'm just letting you know that, as a fellow Colts fan, it's embarrassing to me.

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1 minute ago, Rackeen305 said:

Nick all of your points are super subjective. Once Campbell got hurt, to spark the team and to move forward, it was the play of JT that gave coach Frank confidence that his play calling could still work, and not be a repeat of Jacksonville. After the Campbell injury the Colts ran the ball like 3-4 straight plays, resulting in a TD if im not mistaken.

 

As I mentioned earlier:

Or are you saying the way/style in which he has done it, isnt't your favorite way of doing things (which makes no since to me. Barkley is different from Alvin Kamara, from Sony Michel, from Mark Ingram, etc. So is JT. By the way, I dont think any RB can be Edge 2.0. They don't grow on trees like that. A RB such as Edge who's that size, but yet still faster(4.38) than Barkley and JT. By the way, name me another team running the stretch as you alluded to? 

 

More teams are going to the multi-factor QB than stretch plays, but I can be wrong... (see Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Mahomes, even Justin Herbert) 

 

BTW, Peyton Manning or no one who plays close to him wont be walking through any team's doors anytime soon. Perhaps Sunshine, but even Sunshine is different from Peyton.

Well yeah man.  Impression is totally and utterly objective.

 

But these things are not subjective.

 

JT has averaged 3.5 ypc which is .6 below league average. This is a fact not subjective.

 

In yesterday's, game JT average 3.9 ypc which is .2 below league average.  This is a fact.

 

In last weeks game, JT averaged 2.2 ypc and the other RBs averaged 5ypc. THis is a fact

 

In yesterday.s game, JT average 3.9 ypc and Wilkins averaged 4.4 ypc.  This is a fact.

 

Last year, the Colts averaged 4.5 ypc a whopping 1 ypc more than JT has averaged rushing the ball. This is a fact.

 

Fellow Rookie James Robinson has averaged 5.1 ypc which is a whoppoing 1.6 ypc more than JT.  This is a fact.  Robinson was also an UDFA.

 

Fellow Rookie Clyde Edwards-Hilaire has average 5.0 ypc.  This is a fact.

 

 

 

Now this is not a fact, but most people agree that Indy has one of if not the best Olines in football.  

 

So yes the impression i get is mainly subjective but I think there is some evidence to back up what I subjectively see right now.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Oh and the Colts almost kept a FB this year.  They must have been considering to put some I or pro type sets in there.  I think JT would be more "impressive" in that type of scheme.

 

THere appears  be a trend emerging from a few teams to go back to 2 back offenses too.

 

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2 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I didn't say you jumped onto another teams bandwagon, I'm saying you jump off the Colts bandwagon.

 

Which is what you'll do if we lose to the Jets.  And then you'll hop back on the Colts bandwagon if the Colts beat a 3-0 Bears team, and then off if we lose to the Browns, and then on, and then off...

 

Like last week when you made a thread wanting us to "convince you to keep watching" as if the wheels had completely fallen off the Colts bandwagon.  Yet here you are all optimistic after a dominant win...

 

Your up-and-down back-and-forth posts make Colts fans look like fairweather fans.  And I don't mean that as an attack or criticism, I'm just letting you know that, as a fellow Colts fan, it's embarrassing to me.

Oh well. I'm not a stupid, naive, casual fan. I'm smart enough to realize when this team is underperforming or doing wrong. I'm not to going to blindly be optimistic about every little thing. I'll praise them when they do well, and bash them when they do bad. Like an actual fan. Also, I'm bi-polar. My up and and down, and back and forth posts fit someone of my condition. I get embarrassed when this team can't beat a team like Jax in Jax and can't win an opener in years.

 

Then you have the nerve to criticize me after I'm optimistic after a dominant win. As if Colts fans should be robotic creatures that blindly cheer the team 100% of the time no matter what and question nothing. So you hate when fans are negative, but you criticize them for being optimistic? I critizice you for acting non-human. :nono:

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The one thing I will say to this threads point, if I had to be critical of yesterday’s game, is that he did leave some yards in the field. Yards that I think Wilkins could eek out, which I think he showed once he came in. Of course, the Vikes D was a little worn by then, but still.

 

Just saying, hope to see him improve his elusiveness a bit, also, patience/vision.

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1 minute ago, krunk said:

Bruh do you ever go to bed?

YEah, usually around 8 or 9 o clock Central.  But I get up at 3 or 4!  Sucks.  I am just like my Dad in that respect.

 

I have a lot of time at my computer at work right now

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

So you hate when fans are negative, but you criticize them for being optimistic?

 

I understand when fans are negative when there's something to be negative about, like last week.  That was a sloppy game.  There was some very normal reaction to it in this forum afterward.

 

Or optimism after a win like yesterday.  That's a normal reaction.

 

What I don't understand is the OVERreaction.  The "hot seat" threads, the "Fire Reich" threads, and the "convince me to keep watching" threads after a loss...  or the "Ballard is a genius" or "Super Bowl?" threads after a win.  :dunno:

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1 minute ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Are you saying I am?

I don't think so, but I think you like when the fanbase is like that so they are trained not to question anything and just blindly cheer anything. Like taking away their freedom of expression.

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9 minutes ago, krunk said:

Bruh do you ever go to bed?

 But bruh but my 809 posts pales in comparaison to your 12,543.  Wow.  That's . . . a lot of posts.

 

oops correction  18,407 posts.  :D

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1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I don't think so, but I think you like when the fanbase is like that so they are trained not to question anything and just blindly cheer anything. Like taking away their freedom of expression.

 

No, I just prefer reasonable discussions to unreasonable ones.

 

"The OLine needs to protect Rivers better so he isn't making bad throws off his back foot" or "The D need to play more man-press because this soft off-zone isn't working" are reasonable discussions.

 

"Fire Reich/Ballard" or "Convince me to keep watching" are not reasonable discussions.

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9 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

No, I just prefer reasonable discussions to unreasonable ones.

 

"The OLine needs to protect Rivers better so he isn't making bad throws off his back foot" or "The D need to play more man-press because this soft off-zone isn't working" are reasonable discussions.

 

"Fire Reich/Ballard" or "Convince me to keep watching" are not reasonable discussions.

The bolded isn't meant to be, it's meant to be a temporary overreaction to vent. Nothing more, nothing less. 

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3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Well yeah man.  Impression is totally and utterly objective.

 

But these things are not subjective.

 

JT has averaged 3.5 ypc which is .6 below league average. This is a fact not subjective.

 

In yesterday's, game JT average 3.9 ypc which is .2 below league average.  This is a fact.

 

In last weeks game, JT averaged 2.2 ypc and the other RBs averaged 5ypc. THis is a fact

 

In yesterday.s game, JT average 3.9 ypc and Wilkins averaged 4.4 ypc.  This is a fact.

 

Last year, the Colts averaged 4.5 ypc a whopping 1 ypc more than JT has averaged rushing the ball. This is a fact.

 

Fellow Rookie James Robinson has averaged 5.1 ypc which is a whoppoing 1.6 ypc more than JT.  This is a fact.  Robinson was also an UDFA.

 

Fellow Rookie Clyde Edwards-Hilaire has average 5.0 ypc.  This is a fact.

 

 

 

Now this is not a fact, but most people agree that Indy has one of if not the best Olines in football.  

 

So yes the impression i get is mainly subjective but I think there is some evidence to back up what I subjectively see right now.

 

 

Looking at the numbers. If you are going to use this as your benchmark, Could you please tell me where Rivers rank by the numbers and if Rivers is playing as well or better than the numbers? Because this team will only go as far as the QB takes them.

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1 minute ago, Rackeen305 said:

Looking at the numbers. If you are going to use this as your benchmark, Could you please tell me where Rivers rank by the numbers and if Rivers is playing as well or better than the numbers? Because this team will only go as far as the QB takes them.

Uhh, no.

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