Did Indy Covet Love

[dw49 738]

I didn't think so as there were some trades around #25 . That would mean the Colts could have traded into the mid 20's. The report that GB moved up to get ahead of the Colt's , who were said to had targeted him at pick # 2.2 , was strongly denied by Ballard. I tend to believe him .

 

Anyway , here's an update on how Love has looked so far ....

 

The Athletic's Matt Schneidman wrote that Jordan Love "has yet to even provide a glimpse at why the Packers traded up to draft him in the first round."

Love was featured in the "Falling Stock" section of the Packers' training camp recap, largely because of his arm. Schneidman writes, "Nobody expected him to take the world by storm in his first nine practices, but every throw he makes seems like a touch pass and he’s had some accuracy issues early on." Love was a highly debated prospect coming out of Utah State for this exact reason. While he made unbelievable plays at times, Love had notable accuracy and interception issues on tape. The Packers likely have two seasons to groom Love with Aaron Rodgers' contract essentially preventing him from leaving before that, but it appears they have their work cut out with development. Love's raw tools are what made the Packers trade up for him in the later portion of the 2020 first round.

[John Hammonds 1,552]

Looks like another one of those good decisions by CB, as seen in retrospect.

[dw49 738]

19 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Looks like another one of those good decisions by CB, as seen in retrospect.

 

It's early but if he were a Colt , I would hate reading that write-up.

[PeterBowman 1,492]

So just based on this early write up, Eason has shown more than Love.

[AwesomeAustin 711]

I think Tua will have the best chance to succeed from this draft class.  Everyone else has huge question marks.  Was a bad year to need a QB.  
 

Eason was drafted in the perfect spot for a low risk high reward investment.  Chances are extremely high he won’t become a franchise QB but maybe he can replace Brissett and be a high level backup.  That would be a great use of a 4th rd pick. 

[jvan1973 5,603]

21 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I think Tua will have the best chance to succeed from this draft class.  Everyone else has huge question marks.  Was a bad year to need a QB.  
 

Eason was drafted in the perfect spot for a low risk high reward investment.  Chances are extremely high he won’t become a franchise QB but maybe he can replace Brissett and be a high level backup.  That would be a great use of a 4th rd pick. 

Tuas injury history should scare miami

[B~Town 216]

Never got the hype but it is still way to early to make any judgement on how his career will pan out. 

[NewColtsFan 9,739]

I don’t know why posters think the know enough about rookies in a month.    A month that comes after a bizarre offseason.

 

But people have already jumped to conclusions, because that’s what fans like to do....  it’s like predicting the outcome of a marathon based on the first mile....   crazy. 

[AwesomeAustin 711]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Tuas injury history should scare miami

Oh most definitely.  I could see every QB in this draft under achieving.  Burrow is in a QB wasteland, going to Cleveland or Jacksonville would probably be the only worse situations.  Miami isnt much better but I like their coach.  Hopefully they keep aria protected and he learns to also protect himself.  Herbert will get his shot but I see him flaming out as a starter after 7yrs.  Love is not a franchise QB.  Packers were dumb to trade up for him and will regret wasting that pick.  Reminds of that kid Denver drafted from Memphis that never could crack the lineup bc he never got better. Paxton Lynch I believe.  I did forget about Hurts in Philly.  That may turn out to be the perfect coach and new age QB combination that could win some games.  If Wentz goes down again(he will), Hurts may surprise some people. 
 

Eason has a shot at developing behind a decent QB in Rivers and getting his chance.  I still think our future franchise QB is not on the team. He was my 2nd favorite prospect behind Tua, hopefully he develops. 

[dw49 738]

15 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t know why posters think the know enough about rookies in a month.    A month that comes after a bizarre offseason.

 

But people have already jumped to conclusions, because that’s what fans like to do....  it’s like predicting the outcome of a marathon based on the first mile....   crazy. 

 

I don't think anyone , for sure not me , has come to any "conclusions." However , if I were a Packer fan , I would not like to be reading that Love is not showing much "arm talent" in camp. That's how the evaluation reads to me. It's like back in 2013 with Werner. He showed no explosion and was being stymied in practice by some journeyman right tackle. I thought "ugh" to myself.  It's fine if a player has the attributes and needs to refine them. But if those Love reports are accurate , IMO, it sounds like he doesn't throw the ball like a first round pick would be expected to . JMO...

[NewColtsFan 9,739]

7 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

I don't think anyone , for sure not me , has come to any "conclusions." However , if I were a Packer fan , I would not like to be reading that Love is not showing much "arm talent" in camp. That's how the evaluation reads to me. It's like back in 2013 with Werner. He showed no explosion and was being stymied in practice by some journeyman right tackle. I thought "ugh" to myself.  It's fine if a player has the attributes and needs to refine them. But if those Love reports are accurate , IMO, it sounds like he doesn't throw the ball like a first round pick would be expected to . JMO...

It’s one thing to be disappointed early...   it’s another to jump to conclusions.   I know you haven’t, but reading some of the other posts, it seems some already have.   Part of the nature of fandom. 

[funktacious2 473]

In fairness, I can't recall if there were any actual reports that the Colts might move up for him. I think the Packers just thought we might and really wanted him so they took the plunge.

[Hark 431]

In Ballard we trust

[ReMeDy 443]

Ballard said, "There was no effort to try to get into the first round. We were comfortable with where we were at. Matter of fact, I was eating popcorn, just hanging out, from about Pick 19 to 32."

https://www.colts.com/news/jonathan-taylor-michael-pittman-jr-julian-blackmon-chris-ballard-day-2-nfl-draft

 

So yea, if what Ballard says is true, then Ballard was eating popcorn even when Love was on the board.

[AwesomeAustin 711]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

It’s one thing to be disappointed early...   it’s another to jump to conclusions.   I know you haven’t, but reading some of the other posts, it seems some already have.   Part of the nature of fandom. 

I’m one of those totally jumping to conclusions.  Jumped a long time ago.  I think he will be a bust and not see a 2nd contract from the packers thats anymore than a prove it deal. I’ve only watched about 2-3hrs of film on him but that’s bc I didn’t like what I saw and stopped.  I’m nobody tho so could easily be 100% wrong lol

[Jared Cisneros 4,142]

9 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

Ballard said, "There was no effort to try to get into the first round. We were comfortable with where we were at. Matter of fact, I was eating popcorn, just hanging out, from about Pick 19 to 32."

https://www.colts.com/news/jonathan-taylor-michael-pittman-jr-julian-blackmon-chris-ballard-day-2-nfl-draft

 

So yea, if what Ballard says is true, then Ballard was eating popcorn even when Love was on the board.

You beat me to it. Was about to post this. It's also on the Colts youtube website when they interview him. Another clue is on "with the next pick" where Ballard asks his scouts the day before the draft happens "who do we like better, Taylor or Pittman?" So they had Taylor and Pittman in their heads to choose before day 1, before Love got chosen. They had no interest in Love.

[dw49 738]

28 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You beat me to it. Was about to post this. It's also on the Colts youtube website when they interview him. Another clue is on "with the next pick" where Ballard asks his scouts the day before the draft happens "who do we like better, Taylor or Pittman?" So they had Taylor and Pittman in their heads to choose before day 1, before Love got chosen. They had no interest in Love.

 

It was Rapoport that reported the Colts were trying o move up and draft Love. It no doubt was proved to be false.

[WifiGuy 424]

some had us trading up into the top 5-7 to get him.....  and you know who you are young lady

[Architects08 234]

He might turn out to be a good qb, but I was so happy that we didnt draft him. 

[DaveA1102 1,352]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t know why posters think the know enough about rookies in a month.    A month that comes after a bizarre offseason.

 

But people have already jumped to conclusions, because that’s what fans like to do....  it’s like predicting the outcome of a marathon based on the first mile....   crazy. 

 

Didn't Aaron Rodgers have one of the worst training camps in history in his rookie year?

[jlid 49]

I didn't want Love, so I'm glad we didn't trade up for him, but I have a feeling we either tried, or spread false rumors that we were going to try. The Packers leapfrogged the Seahawks and Ravens to take him, and he wasn't going there...And GM's seem to have a lot more information than we ever know about other team's targets.  It's the same reason we traded up 3 spots for Taylor (though that one is more cut and dry because there was a decent chance Jax was gonna take him).  And we were the only team anywhere near that range that made sense to fear.  Again, whether it was true or not, I'd bet there was information floating around that we did in fact covet him

 

But it's also worth noting that if we did covet him, we would have traded up for him even if we thought he was going to drop to 34 because that 5th year option is more valuable on a QB than whatever asset we would have to give up

[jvan1973 5,603]

6 hours ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Didn't Aaron Rodgers have one of the worst training camps in history in his rookie year?

Who keeps track of such things?

[RollerColt 2,780]

He's got time to learn. In the meantime, he's going to have to adjust to the speed of the NFL. We take that for granted as fans, but from every rookie it's one of the first things they notice is how much faster everything, and I mean everything, is. 

 

He's no longer at Utah St. So now he's going to be facing the top players of the nation. Yes, even those 3rd stringers are high-level athletes. 

[NewColtsFan 9,739]

7 hours ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Didn't Aaron Rodgers have one of the worst training camps in history in his rookie year?

I don’t remember...   that was roughly 15 years ago.   And Rodgers didn’t play his first three years with the Packers as Favre couldn’t decide if he was retiring or not.   So Rodgers got buried behind a HoFer.   

[Superman 9,562]

14 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

It was Rapoport that reported the Colts were trying o move up and draft Love. It no doubt was proved to be false.

 

I don't disagree with this. But it's pretty obvious the Colts were interested in Love. Was there enough interest to take him at some point in the first two rounds? I don't think we'll ever have a satisfactory answer to that. But they showed plenty of interest, for months, which makes it hard to believe that they didn't like him.

 

Add to that their need for a young QB, then assumptions get made.

Rapoport has made "reports" with less information than that.

[DougDew 2,766]

19 hours ago, dw49 said:

"Nobody expected him to take the world by storm in his first nine practices, but every throw he makes seems like a touch pass and he’s had some accuracy issues early on." 

There was a huge Love love fest on this forum near the end of last season.  When I saw the first highlight tape back then, the bolded is also what I saw.  While he was very good at dropping the ball over the defender and into the receivers hands, that ball trajectory dominated the highlight tape.  I didn't see the arm strength or zip that others saw, and my suspicions were confirmed when he threw only 1 to 1.5 mph better than Jake Fromm, who got skewered on this forum for having a weak arm (which he does not).  

 

Love could be a great QB, but I didn't see the arm talent that was being raved about.

[shasta519 3,062]

16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

There was a huge Love love fest on this forum near the end of last season.  When I saw the first highlight tape back then, the bolded is also what I saw.  While he was very good at dropping the ball over the defender and into the receivers hands, that ball trajectory dominated the highlight tape.  I didn't see the arm strength or zip that others saw, and my suspicions were confirmed when he threw only 1 to 1.5 mph better than Jake Fromm, who got skewered on this forum for having a weak arm (which he does not).  

 

Love could be a great QB, but I didn't see the arm talent that was being raved about.

 

When did he throw slower than Fromm? In some drill at the Combine?

 

From tape analysis...Love has very strong zip...the best in this past draft. Here is a chart of QBs using video frame analysis:

 

 

Source: https://medium.com/@thetim_dix/nfl-draft-how-strong-is-joe-burrows-arm-b69abd897399#:~:text=all their problems.-,TL%3BDR,throws the other QBs cannot.

 

If he can reduce his release, and more importantly, his trigger time...he is going to be a very good NFL QB.

 

[DougDew 2,766]

9 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

When did he throw slower than Fromm? In some drill at the Combine?

 

From tape analysis...Love has very strong zip...the best in this past draft. Here is a chart of QBs using video frame analysis:

 

 

Source: https://medium.com/@thetim_dix/nfl-draft-how-strong-is-joe-burrows-arm-b69abd897399#:~:text=all their problems.-,TL%3BDR,throws the other QBs cannot.

 

If he can reduce his release, and more importantly, his trigger time...he is going to be a very good NFL QB.

 

Why would digital video frame analysis be a better measure than actual throws?  Is this the kind of remote science based junk bad NFL teams use to make decisions?

 

At the combine, he was measured at 1 to 1.5mph better, not worse, than Fromm.  Actual throws.  Not measurements based on video analysis.  Both Love and Fromm were mid pack of all of the QBs who threw at the combines over the past few years.

 

Seemingly corroborated by what's actually happening in GB training camp.

[Myles 4,326]

I was never on the Love bandwagon.  I seen a bit of Brissett in him.   Releasing the ball too late and trying to make up for it with a hard thrown ball.   I'm not an expert though and could very well be off the mark.  

I liked Eason better and was thrilled to get Pittman, Taylor and Blackman before having to take Eason.   

[DougDew 2,766]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

I was never on the Love bandwagon.  I seen a bit of Brissett in him.   Releasing the ball too late and trying to make up for it with a hard thrown ball.   I'm not an expert though and could very well be off the mark.  

I liked Eason better and was thrilled to get Pittman, Taylor and Blackman before having to take Eason.   

Personally, I compared Love to Wentz, and thought that his combination of mobility and short ball accuracy and touch would be a good fit for Reich's offense.  (Another member pointed out that Love lacked the arm that Wentz has).  OTOH, I did not think that Love was a fireballer with accuracy who would be a bomber or a guy throwing a lot of deep outs....needing strong arm, timing, and accuracy.  All three qualities are the typical 1st round NFL arm talent, IMO, and Love's arm lacked something to be as highly rated as people thought he was.

  

[Dingus McGirt 1,662]

23 minutes ago, Myles said:

I was never on the Love bandwagon.  I seen a bit of Brissett in him.   Releasing the ball too late and trying to make up for it with a hard thrown ball.   I'm not an expert though and could very well be off the mark.  

I liked Eason better and was thrilled to get Pittman, Taylor and Blackman before having to take Eason.   

I prefer to describe it as "the Love Boat."  But, I realize that is dating myself as you youngsters don't get the reference.  

 

[pacolts56 3,910]

3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Who keeps track of such things?

Aaron Rodgers?

 

[Myles 4,326]

9 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

I prefer to describe it as "the Love Boat."  But, I realize that is dating myself as you youngsters don't get the reference.  

 

I watched that show a bunch when I was young.  

[shasta519 3,062]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Why would digital video frame analysis be a better measure than actual throws?  Is this the kind of remote science based junk bad NFL teams use to make decisions?

 

At the combine, he was measured at 1 to 1.5mph better, not worse, than Fromm.  Actual throws.  Not measurements based on video analysis.  Both Love and Fromm were mid pack of all of the QBs who threw at the combines over the past few years.

 

Seemingly corroborated by what's actually happening in GB training camp.

 

This is tape-based analysis...from actual game throws. I don't know if teams use frame counting analysis...but they definitely use tape to scout players...not necessarily Combine drills. 

 

And the Combine drill numbers I found...had them equal throwing to one side and Love 1 MPH ahead to the other side.

 

I don't know what's happening in GB's training camp...but it's not because he doesn't have a strong arm.

 

[dw49 738]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't disagree with this. But it's pretty obvious the Colts were interested in Love. Was there enough interest to take him at some point in the first two rounds? I don't think we'll ever have a satisfactory answer to that. But they showed plenty of interest, for months, which makes it hard to believe that they didn't like him.

 

Add to that their need for a young QB, then assumptions get made.

Rapoport has made "reports" with less information than that.

 

I said it was false as Ballard seems to never get caught making a false statement. Rapoport said GB "heard"  the Colts were trying to move up to take Love. I don't doubt the Colts had interest but IMO , they had NO INTENTIONS of moving up. Also they did do a lot of scouting but we , as you said , don't even know if they like him with pick 2.2. If you go by sound bites from our war room , it was a choice between Pittman and Taylor.Maybe Love had already been picked when that conversation was recorded ? Could be.

[Coffeedrinker 3,537]

Love is probably struggling because he has a new OC, new HC and 10 out 11 players on the offense are new to him.  Oh wait, that was the reason he struggled in college.

 

@Superman, I agree the Colts spent time  months before the draft scouting him, but I personally think they came away figuring he was not worth a 1st round pick.  I think if Love had been there in the 4th round they have have picked him over Eason.

[Superman 9,562]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

I said it was false as Ballard seems to never get caught making a false statement. Rapoport said GB "heard"  the Colts were trying to move up to take Love. I don't doubt the Colts had interest but IMO , they had NO INTENTIONS of moving up. Also they did do a lot of scouting but we , as you said , don't even know if they like him with pick 2.2. If you go by sound bites from our war room , it was a choice between Pittman and Taylor.Maybe Love had already been picked when that conversation was recorded ? Could be.

 

Yeah, we don't have enough context on that conversation.

 

I do agree that when Ballard says they weren't going to trade up, that he's telling the truth. But it seems other teams were concerned about a team trading up for Love, maybe the Colts. That might be why the Packers came up for him. So I don't know if the smoke that Rapoport reported was fake or not. It might have been.

 

53 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Love is probably struggling because he has a new OC, new HC and 10 out 11 players on the offense are new to him.  Oh wait, that was the reason he struggled in college.

 

@Superman, I agree the Colts spent time  months before the draft scouting him, but I personally think they came away figuring he was not worth a 1st round pick.  I think if Love had been there in the 4th round they have have picked him over Eason.

 

Whether they thought he was worth a first or not, they obviously weren't interested in trading up for him. Once they traded out of #13, it should have been obvious that they weren't going to draft a QB early. If they wanted a QB on Day 1, they wouldn't have traded that pick so early.

 

If Love had lasted to the second round, don't know what the Colts do. Maybe they had a 25-30ish grade on him, and if he falls to them in the second, maybe they feel compelled to make the pick. But they were obviously happy to take Pittman and Taylor, so it doesn't seem like they were holding their breath waiting for Love to drop.

 

But I don't think it matters that he's struggling in camp. Not at this point. People had their minds made up about Daniel Jones this time last year. And countless other examples. It's too early to make any kind of determination about Love right now.

[crazycolt1 7,557]

He is not a Colt so I don't give it much thought. 

Besides, it's way too early to make such judgments. 

[Four2itus 5,224]

Covet? I highly doubt it. Fans here sure did.

 

Consider? Absolutely. 

[dw49 738]

1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

Covet? I highly doubt it. Fans here sure did.

 

Consider? Absolutely. 

 

I highly doubt it too. I was just trying to word it so it wouldn't get moved to another forum.