Luck Retirement One Year On: Are We Better?

[Yoshinator]

Just now, NannyMcafee said:

 

Im excited about this current team. Even Philip Rivers. This team is SB bound. 

Agreed. I think we are the 3rd best team right now in the AFC behind the Chiefs and Ravens, but we can beat them on a good day. It'll be an interesting year. I just feel so much better on defense with Buckner. What a difference he makes!

[2006Coltsbestever]

55 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I'd like to make it clear. I never said Andrew was a bad, or untalented QB. So stop acting like that IS what I said, or IS what I mean. You can be a great player. Doesn't make you a winner. 

 

However, I am willing to admit, that I am biased against Andrew. To me, he doesn't deserve to be in the ring of honor. A lot of fans agree with my point of view, and I wouldn't be shocked if they weren't biased as well. 

 

If Peyton never won a SB, it would have been a major knock against him, just like it is a major knock against Dan Marino or Kelly. He would be considered a great regular season QB... 

 

Andrew wasn't a player we had never seen the likes of before. There were QBs on his level while he was drafted, during his draft, and players after his draft that have done just as well or better. Because a couple of them have SB wins. 

 

Yeah.. Grigson and Chuck Pagano also had winning records. I guess that, in the smallest sense of the word, make them winners too. Some of you defended them too though, so. 

 

I might be biased against Andrew because of how he retired when he did, to my one and only sports team that I had high hopes and aspirations for a SB in the very near future. 

 

But you guys are just as biased for him. 

 

Call me stupid. Call my posts a "steaming pile of horse dung". Call my post a hot mess. whatever makes you feel smarter i guess.

 

Its still your opinion that regular season wins make you a winning individual. But Brady is considered the Goat in sports right now because he has 6 rings. If he didn't, he wouldn't even be considered that good. If he didn't have 1 SB, he wouldn't be considered a winner.

 

To each their own. I'd appreciate it if those who disagree wouldn't feel the need to say my opinion as horse dung, or a hot mess. But I can't control any of those who disagree. Again. To each his own. 

 

Do we need to keep talking about it? Or do you feel the need to call me stupid too? Does it make you feel better about yourself as a person when you put someone else down for their opinions? Hey, im just curious. 

 

Did I spell everything right? Did I use proper grammar? I hope so. 

Andrew belongs in Ring of the Honor and it isn't even debatable. He won 4 playoff games, and had seasons of throwing for 40 TD's and 39 TD's. He won a playoff game at Mile High vs Peyton and Von Miller. He isn't a HOFamer that I get but if Harbaugh is in our Ring, than Andrew should be a shoe in.

[Dark Superman]

Outside the QB position, the Colts are a much better team in terms of talent. Do I think Philip Rivers can win with this team? Absolutely. Playoff contenders by a mile. But if Andrew Luck was still here healthy and able to play with this group of guys, this Colts team is Super Bowl Caliber. Rivers is a damn good QB and I'm so happy we landed him, but Andrew Luck was special. Andrew Luck won a lot of games while being surrounded by the worst roster in the NFL for multiple years. I can't think of many guys who did more with less than Andrew Luck. I see so many people labeling him as a bust and quitter. He was one of the best things to ever happen to this franchise and his career should've ended with multiple Super Bowl victories and multiple years of being in the discussion of Player of the Year. It's a shame terrible management killed his career before Ballard and Reich had the chance to come in and surround Luck with the kind of talent Reich and Ballard have brought to Indianapolis in three and a half years. 

[Yoshinator]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Andrew belongs in Ring of the Honor and it isn't even debatable. He won 4 playoff games, and had seasons of throwing for 40 TD's and 39 TD's. He won a playoff game at Mile High vs Peyton and Von Miller. He isn't a HOFamer that I get but if Harbaugh is in our Ring, than Andrew should be a shoe in.

To put it in Military terms, Luck should be "dishonorably discharged" from the ring of honor the way he put this team in terrible shape by the timing of his retirement. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

48 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Ballard was * how the Luck family handled everything going on with Andrew. 

 

Andrew is highly talented. Good enough to be a SB winning QB. Talent wise, was up there with the best of them. 

 

I just dont understand why I have to respect him like he was at Peytons level.

 

He waited until a week before the season to retire. To me, that is disrespectful to your current team, and fans. You threw the season into the dumpster walked away into the sunset a happy man (according to reports). To me that screams a player who isnt dedicated. Feels no obligation to his "team", and took the out. 

 

Did you know Pat Mcafee is considered one if the goats of punters? And yet, i dont see him as selfish. Maybe because he didn't wait until a week before the season that you were considered SB favorites. 

 

If Andrew left when the last regime got fired, I honestly wouldn't have felt personally betrayed. It doesn't help that he waited for the news to break to tell people, which means, he would have waited even longer to tell everyone. Let alone a week before the season. The sooner the better. Youre telling me as a 7 year vet, you didn't know that football makes you hurt? It wasn't until a week before the season that you decided it was gonna hurt too much? The way everything with Andrew was handled, with all the injuries the last 4 years, it was all secret. Cant tell anyone anything. Keep it all under wraps.... to me tbat is deceptive. How anyone can feel anything but lied to for 3-4 years of injuries is beyond me. 

 

Anyways. I am biased against him, and his actions have gone a long way towards my biased opinion. 

Nobody thinks he was on Peyton's level, not 1 person does. Peyton if the not the GOAT is in the top 3 ever at worse. I hate the way he quit too as does @Jared Cisneros on the team too but he belongs in the Ring, JMO.

[NannyMcafee]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Andrew belongs in Ring of the Honor and it isn't even debatable. He won 4 playoff games, and had seasons of throwing for 40 TD's and 39 TD's. He won a playoff game at Mile High vs Peyton and Von Miller. He isn't a HOFamer that I get but if Harbaugh is in our Ring, than Andrew should be a shoe in.

 

I can agree with that. He should be in the ring of honor because Jim is... if Jim gets in, Andrew gets in. It is something I overlooked. 

 

Growing up watching the likes of Peyton like I did, may have put too strict a level on my expectations of people in the HOF or ROH.

 

But again, I have overlooked Jim being in the ROH. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I can agree with that. He should be in the ring of honor because Jim is... if Jim gets in, Andrew gets in. It is something I overlooked. 

 

Growing up watching the likes of Peyton like I did, may have put too strict a level on my expectations of people in the HOF or ROH.

 

But again, I have overlooked Jim being in the ROH. 

Yeah I loved Jim and he was great for us in 1995. We got robbed against Pitt and should've made the SB. He wasn't the QB Luck was though, JMO.

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I loved Jim and he was great for us in 1995. We got robbed against Pitt and should've made the SB. He wasn't the QB Luck was though, JMO.

He was as good as Luck in 95 IMO. IMO, Jim wasn't near as talented, but he had more "clutch", and more heart. 

 

Yup, got robbed. Didn't that game (Pitt) lead directly to the adoption of instant replay.

[Four2itus]

“How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours.” — Wayne Dyer

 

I have chosen to give Andrew Luck  the benefit of the doubt, that the path he followed to his early retirement, was one infinitely tougher than any fan has had to endure because of his decision... 

 

.............and yes, he absolutely deserves, and will be, in the ring of honor. I guess if it comes to the choice to either drink the blue koolaid, or the poison of resentment, I'll take the koolaid. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

He was as good as Luck in 95 IMO. IMO, Jim wasn't near as talented, but he had more "clutch", and more heart. 

 

Yup, got robbed. Didn't that game (Pitt) lead directly to the adoption of instant replay.

Yep. Kordell going out of bounds in the end zone and coming back in to catch a TD was a call you can't miss. No replay in 1995.

[Imgrandojji]

We owe more of our recovery to Jacoby Brissett than some fans on this forum are going to be willing to admit.

 

When a team loses its star quarterback there's always a potential for a true cascade failure where confidence begins to suffer across the board and the collapse of one group fosters the collapse of others.  We saw that happen just this last year with the Steelers when Roethlisberger went down in week 2.

 

By winning early, Brissett did a LOT to cauterize the wound and prevent things from getting as bad as they could have been.  All of a sudden we were hoping rather than despairing, and had made the transition to underdogs successfully.  That was Brissett's doing, almost more than Reich's or Ballard's.

 

Even though he fell off a cliff in the second half, Brissett's year left us in a position where we could face the future with optimism.  He bought us fans time to recover emotionally, annd brought a team that everyone thought would be fighting for draft picks into the playoff hunt for most of the season.   He did well. 

 

Now we'll see how Rivers can improve on the work Brissett did to right the ship.  But make no mistake, Rivers isn't here if Brissett is the sucking chest wound some folks here seem to think he is.  By just missing the playoffs, Brissett convinced Rivers that this situation was an opportunity to compete, which is why we have him.  He and Marlon Mack are probably the two biggest reasons our recovery has gone as well as it has.

[Kangaroo]

Much better overall, but definitely not at QB

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

We owe more of our recovery to Jacoby Brissett than some fans on this forum are going to be willing to admit.

 

When a team loses its star quarterback there's always a potential for a true cascade failure where confidence begins to suffer across the board and the collapse of one group fosters the collapse of others.  We saw that happen just this last year with the Steelers when Roethlisberger went down in week 2.

 

By winning early, Brissett did a LOT to cauterize the wound and prevent things from getting as bad as they could have been.  All of a sudden we were hoping rather than despairing, and had made the transition to underdogs successfully.  That was Brissett's doing, almost more than Reich's or Ballard's.

 

Even though he fell off a cliff in the second half, Brissett's year left us in a position where we could face the future with optimism.  He bought us fans time to recover emotionally, annd brought a team that everyone thought would be fighting for draft picks into the playoff hunt for most of the season.   He did well. 

 

Now we'll see how Rivers can improve on the work Brissett did to right the ship.  But make no mistake, Rivers isn't here if Brissett is the sucking chest wound some folks here seem to think he is.  By just missing the playoffs, Brissett convinced Rivers that this situation was an opportunity to compete, which is why we have him.  He and Marlon Mack are probably the two biggest reasons our recovery has gone as well as it has.

JB inherited a tough situation, but he didn't cauterize the wound, and he didn't right the ship. He was a good team mate, played hard, and represented the team well, which is all we can ask given the situation. He was given an opportunity most would dream of. The optimism however comes from Ballard's acquisitions which include Rivers. No need to wax poetic and beat the dead horse over and over again. 

[Imgrandojji]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

JB inherited a tough situation, but he didn't cauterize the wound, and he didn't right the ship. He was a good team mate, played hard, and represented the team well, which is all we can ask given the situation. He was given an opportunity most would dream of. The optimism however comes from Ballard's acquisitions which include Rivers. No need to wax poetic and beat the dead horse over and over again. 

JB did right the ship and he did prevent things from getting much worse than they were. 

 

Again, it's easy to forget because our last memory of Brissett was him struggling in the second half and not being able to finish what he started, but if he hadn't had some strong games out the gate, I doubt we have Rivers right now.

 

Rivers is in his last 1-2 years as a player, he's not going to come to a 5-11 team and try to make winners of them.  I can say with some confidence that if Brissett didn't hold us pretty close to the .500 mark, Rivers is probably a Titan right now.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

JB did right the ship and he did prevent things from getting much worse than they were. 

 

Again, it's easy to forget because our last memory of Brissett was him struggling in the second half and not being able to finish what he started, but if he hadn't had some strong games out the gate, I doubt we have Rivers right now.

 

Rivers is in his last 1-2 years as a player, he's not going to come to a 5-11 team and try to make winners of them.  I can say with some confidence that if Brissett didn't hold us pretty close to the .500 mark, Rivers is probably a Titan right now.

Had we made the Playoffs and went 10-6 last season, JB would be the starter heading into this year IMO. We easily could've if it wasn't for missed kicks and him being injured and not playing vs Miami.

[Yoshinator]

9 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

JB did right the ship and he did prevent things from getting much worse than they were. 

 

Again, it's easy to forget because our last memory of Brissett was him struggling in the second half and not being able to finish what he started, but if he hadn't had some strong games out the gate, I doubt we have Rivers right now.

 

Rivers is in his last 1-2 years as a player, he's not going to come to a 5-11 team and try to make winners of them.  I can say with some confidence that if Brissett didn't hold us pretty close to the .500 mark, Rivers is probably a Titan right now.

Lets pretend Chad Kelly and Brian Hoyer would of got us the no1 pick in the draft (constituting "much worse" than they were). Would that of actually been worse? We would have a rookie Joe Burrow right now and would have taken the first step toward rebuilding this team back to where we were with Luck.

 

I'm happy getting Buckner, but lets face it, we are screwed after this year at QB if Rivers doesn't come back. We'll either have to sign another veteran in FA, draft a QB next year to compete with Eason and Kelly (a year later now and a year behind what Burrow would be in delevopment), or make a trade which will cost a lot of draft capital. In no way besides getting Buckner is the team better for Brissett holding us together for the first half of the season. He indirectly screwed us at the QB position after this year.

[Yoshinator]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Had we made the Playoffs and went 10-6 last season, JB would be the starter heading into this year IMO. We easily could've if it wasn't for missed kicks and him being injured and not playing vs Miami.

I agree with the bolded 100%. However, it doesn't mean Brissett is a good QB, and it doesn't mean that hypothetical 10-6 record would of told the true story of how good or bad Brissett was and is as a QB. Ballard did the right thing by signing Rivers and drafting Eason. Just the fact that he's paying Brissett $20 million to sit on the bench and signed Rivers for $25 million to start over him shows how little faith he has in Brissett. All of his talk is just talk when complements Brissett. Actions speak louder than words.

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I agree with the bolded 100%. However, it doesn't mean Brissett is a good QB, and it doesn't mean that hypothetical 10-6 record would of told the true story of how good or bad Brissett was and is as a QB. Ballard did the right thing by signing Rivers and drafting Eason. Just the fact that he's paying Brissett $20 million to sit on the bench and signed Rivers for $25 million to start over him shows how little faith he has in Brissett. All of his talk is just talk when complements Brissett. Actions speak louder than words.

Oh I would rather have Rivers too and JB is off the books after this year anyway. If we stay relatively healthy, I have no reason to believe we can't go 10-6 with Rivers.

[Fluke_33]

On 8/27/2020 at 7:41 PM, EastStreet said:

He was as good as Luck in 95 IMO. IMO, Jim wasn't near as talented, but he had more "clutch", and more heart. 

 

Yup, got robbed. Didn't that game (Pitt) lead directly to the adoption of instant replay.

Such a special run.  I hope they commemorate it somehow this year. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

Such a special run.  I hope they commemorate it somehow this year. 

Yep still my 2nd favorite season ever as a Colts fan. I have only 2006 ahead of it because we won the SB. 2012 is my 3rd, what Luck did as a rookie was awesome! Back to 1995, we were better than Pitt and should've been AFC Champs. They got lucky.

[AZColt11]

I realize I'm late to this party, but I'll weigh-in to the question of the OP.

 

I think absolutely this roster is overall better than it was when Luck left.  The number of hits in the draft and the trade for Buckner deems it so.  It hasn't been very long of course, but I certainly don't think they're worse.  One could argue the QB position has taken a hit because I think most would agree they would rather have a healthy Luck in his prime than either Brissett or and aging Rivers.  But everywhere else I believe they are stronger and deeper than when Luck retired.  In fact, I would argue this is one of the better built rosters in the NFL right now.  You could also argue that the retiring of Luck ALLOWED the roster to be built up as it is.  I'm not entirely sure I buy-in to that because contracts can always be restructured to create cap room, but some have stated this.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

I realize I'm late to this party, but I'll weigh-in to the question of the OP.

 

I think absolutely this roster is overall better than it was when Luck left.  The number of hits in the draft and the trade for Buckner deems it so.  It hasn't been very long of course, but I certainly don't think they're worse.  One could argue the QB position has taken a hit because I think most would agree they would rather have a healthy Luck in his prime than either Brissett or and aging Rivers.  But everywhere else I believe they are stronger and deeper than when Luck retired.  In fact, I would argue this is one of the better built rosters in the NFL right now.  You could also argue that the retiring of Luck ALLOWED the roster to be built up as it is.  I'm not entirely sure I buy-in to that because contracts can always be restructured to create cap room, but some have stated this.

As of now, we are arguably the 3rd best team in the AFC if Rivers just plays good, not even great. Only KC and Baltimore are better IMO. Tennessee will battle us for the division. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I have to admit, it is nice going into a season thinking we are better than New England  . 

[Fluke_33]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yep still my 2nd favorite season ever as a Colts fan. I have only 2006 ahead of it because we won the SB. 2012 is my 3rd, what Luck did as a rookie was awesome! Back to 1995, we were better than Pitt and should've been AFC Champs. They got lucky.

same with me.  And it’s close with 2006 and 95.  
 

I still think we would have beaten the cowboys.  At least it would have been close.  

[Yoshinator]

6 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

I realize I'm late to this party, but I'll weigh-in to the question of the OP.

 

I think absolutely this roster is overall better than it was when Luck left.  The number of hits in the draft and the trade for Buckner deems it so.  It hasn't been very long of course, but I certainly don't think they're worse.  One could argue the QB position has taken a hit because I think most would agree they would rather have a healthy Luck in his prime than either Brissett or and aging Rivers.  But everywhere else I believe they are stronger and deeper than when Luck retired.  In fact, I would argue this is one of the better built rosters in the NFL right now.  You could also argue that the retiring of Luck ALLOWED the roster to be built up as it is.  I'm not entirely sure I buy-in to that because contracts can always be restructured to create cap room, but some have stated this.

I guess the argument is that with Luck, we still have a franchise QB for 6-8 more years. Without him, we have a 1 year band-aid in Rivers. I don't know if the 49ers would of traded us Buckner if the 1st round pick was a little later, but the roster would of been mainly the same besides some of the 2020 draft class, and we would of still had the 34th overall pick from the Redskins.

[AZColt11]

11 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I guess the argument is that with Luck, we still have a franchise QB for 6-8 more years. Without him, we have a 1 year band-aid in Rivers. I don't know if the 49ers would of traded us Buckner if the 1st round pick was a little later, but the roster would of been mainly the same besides some of the 2020 draft class, and we would of still had the 34th overall pick from the Redskins.

True.  I guess that would be the case for arguing they are better because Luck was gone then?  Don't get me wrong, I would rather have Luck than any of the QB's they have now, but the rest of the roster appears somewhat stronger, and as you said they likely would not have a centerpiece for the defense in Buckner if Luck were still here.

[Dingus McGirt]

At this point...

[csmopar]

On 8/27/2020 at 9:10 AM, Jared Cisneros said:

To put it in Military terms, Luck should be "dishonorably discharged" from the ring of honor the way he put this team in terrible shape by the timing of his retirement. 

I don’t agree with the analogy, but I agree with the sentiment. The closest his name should ever get to the Ring of Honor is a letter saying he’s not eligible. Heck, I think we should take that 2014 AFC Championship participation banner down and mail it to him. 

[Imgrandojji]

11 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Lets pretend Chad Kelly and Brian Hoyer would of got us the no1 pick in the draft (constituting "much worse" than they were). Would that of actually been worse?

Uhh yes?  Bottom feeding teams don't get team friendly deals very often from guys like Anthony Costanzo.

 

Bottom feeding teams usually have to pay a premium for talent because most guys don't want to be on a team that sucks.  This obviously applies both to UFAs and their own re-signs. Because we were in the playoff hunt until the wheels fall off it's a lot easier to sell the team to all our FAs, and keep the ones we want to stay. 

 

 By not sucking, we have much better access both to FA talent, like Rivers, and to retain the glue guys we already have on our roster, like Costanzo. 

 

I'll say it again because I very strongly feel the truth of this statement:  If Brissett doesn't win us those 7 games, Rivers goes elsewhere, possibly to the Titans or Bucs.

 

 

[EastStreet]

15 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

JB did right the ship and he did prevent things from getting much worse than they were. 

 

Again, it's easy to forget because our last memory of Brissett was him struggling in the second half and not being able to finish what he started, but if he hadn't had some strong games out the gate, I doubt we have Rivers right now.

 

Rivers is in his last 1-2 years as a player, he's not going to come to a 5-11 team and try to make winners of them.  I can say with some confidence that if Brissett didn't hold us pretty close to the .500 mark, Rivers is probably a Titan right now.

This is pure conjecture. Rivers is here because the organization is known for being a good one, we have a top 5 OL, and a good running game. All those things were apparent with or without JB. And the depth and talent only improved from 2018 to 2019. I'm sure Rivers sees himself (fact or fiction) on the same level as Luck, and he saw what the team was capable with Luck at times. It's like you're purposefully reaching to find a reason to credit JB with all the good, and none of the bad. I appreciate how he handled the tough situation he inherited, but it was also a golden opportunity that most fringe QBs would die for. 

[EastStreet]

15 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Had we made the Playoffs and went 10-6 last season, JB would be the starter heading into this year IMO. We easily could've if it wasn't for missed kicks and him being injured and not playing vs Miami.

I really doubt it. Irsay, Ballard, and Reich all know the kicking woes, so JB doesn't bare that responsibility in their eyes for that. They're not stupid, and know we could have very easily lucked into the playoffs with a few made kicks. They looked at the total picture though. The stats, the tape, etc., all were pretty clear.

 

One simply can't say the team would have done better if this individual (kicker) did X, and overlook the Y that another individual (JB) did or failed to do. Had the O not been anemic we wouldn't have been in so many tight games and reliant on so many kicks. I don't disagree the kicking game woes contributed to Ls, but I also know that the team got Ws despite poor performances by QB, and some of the Ls could have been Ws had we any semblance of a passing game. You have to be objective about both.

 

I also think Irsay wants butts in seats, appreciates the passing game (having had PM and AL) himself, and likely feels he knows what the majority of fans want. It's a business too.

[EastStreet]

15 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Lets pretend Chad Kelly and Brian Hoyer would of got us the no1 pick in the draft (constituting "much worse" than they were). Would that of actually been worse? We would have a rookie Joe Burrow right now and would have taken the first step toward rebuilding this team back to where we were with Luck.

If we're objective about Hoyer though, 

 

Pitt game - took over on the road, threw 3 TDs to 1 INT, had a higher QBR that most of JBs games, etc.. We were winning that game until mid 4Q, and also had a chance to win later but a missed FG did us in. 

 

Miami game - also led in the 4th Q with a chance to win. It was also an incredibly bad coaching week for Reich, who didn't do the team any favors. Didn't give Hoyer any reps with the 1st team going into a road game, and didn't RTDB on a team that was bottom 5 vs the run. Zero rushing TDs....

 

So in short, we want to give JB all the excuses about missed FGs, but give none for Hoyer in Pitt. We also ignore a horrible game week and game plan by Reich in Miami. 

15 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

I'm happy getting Buckner, but lets face it, we are screwed after this year at QB if Rivers doesn't come back. We'll either have to sign another veteran in FA, draft a QB next year to compete with Eason and Kelly (a year later now and a year behind what Burrow would be in delevopment), or make a trade which will cost a lot of draft capital. In no way besides getting Buckner is the team better for Brissett holding us together for the first half of the season. He indirectly screwed us at the QB position after this year.

I agree it's better to be really bad one year, instead of mediocre if the need is to get an QB. On the other hand, I think Rivers does well, and is back. And if he is not, I'd hope Ballard would make another move either for the draft or FA. Carr for instance is going to move from LV before too long, and I'd be happy with him. I think we'll also see surprises after the season, and likely some interesting QB story lines again.

[EastStreet]

14 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

Such a special run.  I hope they commemorate it somehow this year. 

 

14 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yep still my 2nd favorite season ever as a Colts fan. I have only 2006 ahead of it because we won the SB. 2012 is my 3rd, what Luck did as a rookie was awesome! Back to 1995, we were better than Pitt and should've been AFC Champs. They got lucky.

To both of you. My 2nd fav season too. I remember that year well. We had "blue" days at the office (I worked downtown). The whole city was going crazy. JH is a bit of a loon, but I'll always love him for that year. I'll also always hate him for being a MI QB, and a MI coach lol.

3 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Uhh yes?  Bottom feeding teams don't get team friendly deals very often from guys like Anthony Costanzo.

 

Bottom feeding teams usually have to pay a premium for talent because most guys don't want to be on a team that sucks.  This obviously applies both to UFAs and their own re-signs. Because we were in the playoff hunt until the wheels fall off it's a lot easier to sell the team to all our FAs, and keep the ones we want to stay. 

 

 By not sucking, we have much better access both to FA talent, like Rivers, and to retain the glue guys we already have on our roster, like Costanzo. 

 

I'll say it again because I very strongly feel the truth of this statement:  If Brissett doesn't win us those 7 games, Rivers goes elsewhere, possibly to the Titans or Bucs.

LOL, I don't know where to start.

 

1. AC didn't give us a team friendly deal. He's the second highest paid OT in the league. That's not "team friendly". It's actually not friendly at all given where he is ranked by most. He got paid, plain and simple.

 

2. AC isn't a top 5 OT. He's in the 6-15 range. PFF ranks him 9th, CBS not in the top 10 (gets honorable mention with a few others for just missing out), Athlon 10th, and PFN ranks him 13th.

 

3. I love AC, and ecstatic he came back, but there's no doubting AC is benefiting from having Q next to him, and opposing Ds going after our right side to avoid Q in the passing game.

 

4. And the biggest thing... If anything makes it hard on an OT, or OL in general, it's a QB with a high time to throw (JB second highest). AC agreed to re-sign less than a week before Rivers was signed, and the Rivers deal had been in the works for weeks. Who can say what AC weighed in making his decision, but it's not a reach that having a QB with one of the lowest time to throws could have been part of the decision. I'd bet he was absolutely aware of the Rivers deal being worked, and knew having Rivers would make his job a lot easier.

 

 

 

[Dingus McGirt]

On 8/29/2020 at 9:58 AM, csmopar said:

I don’t agree with the analogy, but I agree with the sentiment. The closest his name should ever get to the Ring of Honor is a letter saying he’s not eligible. Heck, I think we should take that 2014 AFC Championship participation banner down and mail it to him. 

Nah.  Captain Andrew Luck - Discharged for the Good of the Service in lieu of Court-Martial for Desertion.

[aaron11]

16 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

I'll say it again because I very strongly feel the truth of this statement:  If Brissett doesn't win us those 7 games, Rivers goes elsewhere, possibly to the Titans or Bucs.

i dont buy that, this is just some wild thought in your head not based in reality 

 

we have a good oline and rivers is connected to our coaches.   that was enough for him to come here, he didnt have many suitors either 

 

the titans had no interest and the bucs wanted brady over him 

[Imgrandojji]

9 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i dont buy that, this is just some wild thought in your head not based in reality 

 

we have a good oline and rivers is connected to our coaches.   that was enough for him to come here, he didnt have many suitors either 

 

the titans had no interest and the bucs wanted brady over him 

If we suck, like we did in 2017, does that O-line look as great? 

 

This is what I mean by cascade failure.  Guys like Q are going to do what they do regardless, elite players gonna elite, but if you don't have good play by the QB, it starts to snowball and key second-line players begin to lose their confidence and swagger and holes start to open up that weren't there to begin with. 

 

I mean even with the good start we had this year it didn't take more than a few weeks of frustration for guys like Eric Ebron to check out mentally.  Now imagine of he was checked out in week 4 instead of week 14.

 

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

If we suck, like we did in 2017, does that O-line look as great? 

 

This is what I mean by cascade failure.  Guys like Q are going to do what they do regardless, elite players gonna elite, but if you don't have good play by the QB, it starts to snowball and key second-line players begin to lose their confidence and swagger and holes start to open up that weren't there to begin with. 

 

I mean even with the good start we had this year it didn't take more than a few weeks of frustration for guys like Eric Ebron to check out mentally.  Now imagine of he was checked out in week 4 instead of week 14.

 

Using Ebron as an example just doesn't resonate. Ebron is thought of as a "me" guy by a majority of fans. While I think there's truth to that, we also treated him as a gun for hire, and he simply looked out for himself. The topic is very nuanced, and certainly is not an argument for JB "saving" things.

 

Ebron's frustration was as much, or more with the FO. He was unhappy with his declining snap count and usage. Let's not forget the meeting he had with Reich. Reports are he was also unhappy that the FO was not trying to extend him after his performance in 2018. So you have a guy that was phenomenal in 2018, then loses snaps, is not extended and unsure of his place, is playing hurt, on a team that is declining.

 

It's not shocking he elected to have surgery and get a head start on 2020 and a new team.

[Dark Superman]

On 8/27/2020 at 7:41 PM, EastStreet said:

He was as good as Luck in 95 IMO. IMO, Jim wasn't near as talented, but he had more "clutch", and more heart. 

 

Yup, got robbed. Didn't that game (Pitt) lead directly to the adoption of instant replay.

Harbaugh wouldn't have been able to take the Colts to the playoffs from 2012-2015. Saying he had more heart than Luck is laughable.

[Dark Superman]

On 8/25/2020 at 12:43 AM, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm 33, so I was just curious. He always seemed to me like a new-age stats and analytics guy to me. Surprised he was that old. He's definitely one of the top posters on the site.

Born in 1987?

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, DarkSu said:

Born in 1987?

Yes.