Luck Retirement One Year On: Are We Better?

[Nickster]

Assuming that Brady, Rogers, Roethilisberger, Brees, Wilson, Peyton, and Eli (I think he's a shoo in but I can see an argmument against it), and Mahomes barring injury all make the HOF, that would make 43 out of 54 superbowls that had an HOF QB at the helm.  That is 80% of the time, and that is alot.

 

Other really good to great QBs include Simms, Plunkett, and McMahon.  That is another 5 SBs bringing the total to 89% of the time SBs have been won by QBs who were at least very good.

 

Flacco was a good QB.  Johsnon was pretty great for a while when he could get on the field.

 

Rypien  had some good to great years.

 

Really the only average to below QBs I see on the list of SB winners are  Williams, Foles, Hostetler, and Dilfer.

 

So yeah, its "accurate" to say you don't NEED a great QB to win a SB, but it almost never happens.  By my calculations league average QBs have won 7 percent of the SBs.  That is not a high percentage.

 

You pretty much need an HOF level QB to win a SB.

 

 

[CurBeatElite]

On 8/24/2020 at 9:18 AM, Four2itus said:

This team is the most solid team I have seen in some time. The actual progression of the Dline is what could make it special. 

 

Health is my main concern once the games get going.  If healthy, this is the most complete team I have seen in a while.  

 

From week 1 last year to week 1 this year we have improved at QB (Rivers > Brissett), RB (addition of Taylor plus Rivers utilizes RBs as receivers much more than Brissett), WR (addition of Pittman plus another year of experience for Campbell, Pascal, and likely for whoever is our 5th/6th WR be it Dulin, Fountain, Johnson -- plus an unknown with Patmon), DL (addition of Buckner and Day, the news that Lewis looks very good, another year for Banogu), LB (another year of experience for Leonard, Okereke, Speed), DB (additions of Rhodes, Carrie, Wilson plus another year of experience for Willis and Ya Sin), and K (we, hopefully, can't be worse at kicking this year than we were last year).  I also think our return and perhaps overall ST play will be better with Campbell healthy, Hines really emerging as a PR late last year, and potential of guys like I. Rodgers/Dulin/D. Harris and others to emerge as KR threats.  Not sure they're going to make the team but Glasgow and Nix are both said to be stud ST guys.

 

We've stayed the same at P and LS.  We have another year of experience under the OL's belt, so maybe they can be even better but the starting 5 likely isn't going to change and we lost Haeg who was the swiss army knife backup (maybe Pinter can fill that void).  Then TE we lost Ebron and gained Burton (I'd say Ebron's more talented than Burton, but Burton to me seems more like a 'Reich' guy) and we have a healthy MAC with another year experience.

 

So really, overall the only position on the team where we may have dropped off would be TE (though, Ebron did, according to Ballard, kind of quit on the team last year).

 

On 8/24/2020 at 10:30 AM, Horsey said:

No. This team would be much better with Luck. All we are missing is an elite QB.

 

Rivers is if not elite, not too far from it.  He went to the probowl 2016, 2017, 2018 and had solid completion percentages and yards last year although he had a bit of an INT issue playing behind the worst line in the league.  Not saying he's better than Luck in Luck's prime, but he's still up in the top tier of QBs in the league.

 

19 hours ago, csmopar said:

I hesitated to throw Brissett in there but I got thinking, a year ago, if Luck was only in it half way, who’s to say he wouldn’t have retired the first time he felt sore or had a bad pop or something? So that’s why I’d rather go into battle with a QB who’s in it fully and got the full reps n such. 

 

Luck retired early before the season probably so he wouldn't retire mid-season if he got  injured again.  He said in his presser he was retiring because the constant injuries took away his love of the game.  Every time Luck stepped foot on the field in a Colts' uniform he gave 100%.

 

17 hours ago, csmopar said:

I'm not disputing that part. Not at all. But no one makes the decision to walk away from 500 million dollars (assumed life earnings had he stayed) over night.  It likely started creeping into his mind weeks to months before, at least at sometime in the 2019 off season.  So no one can say whether or not his heart or mind would have been fully into it had he infact chosen to stay. So it's a legit concern. We will just never know for sure and even Luck himself, won't ever know that for sure either

 

Luck got to keep a good chunk of his contract.  He has made boat loads of money on endorsements from Nike, DirectTV, BodyArmor and probably more.  Luck has a degree from Stanford and is highly intelligent, he'll be able to get a very well paying job fairly easily if he ever needs to.  He chose to walk away early so he could live a decent life for the rest of his life and he'll be just fine financially.  He had multiple serious injuries (kidney laceration, concussion) and then very nagging injuries to his shoulder and ankle/lower leg.  

 

Here's what he said in his retirement speech: ""I've been stuck in this process. I haven't been able to live the life I want to live. It's taken the joy out of this game. The only way forward for me is to remove myself from football. This is not an easy decision. It's the hardest decision of my life. But it is the right decision for me.""

 

He knew he wasn't fully invested in football anymore and he told that to the entire world.  Also, how can you blame him?  Have you ever been in a position where you were constantly in rehab or getting surgeries to attempt to fix injuries? If so, did you have a strong desire to continue doing the job you were doing that was the source of that?

 

When Luck played, he was always into it 100% and was one of the fiercest competitors in the entire NFL.

 

 

 

14 hours ago, CF4L said:

 

On paper but you still have to play the games. The Colts started off well at 5-2 but still missed the playoffs. 

Funny you mention the Bears that's the only SB they won. I do agree that you need more than QB to win championships but I think Luck is more talented and with a better roster and him I trust more than Philip Rivers which was what I thought the question was.

 

Unfortunately he lacked heart to play this game it was something he was good at but he was never passionate about it. Which is fine but not the makeup for a franchise QB either.

 

Luck was never passionate about the game of football?  Did you watch any games he actually played in while he was on the Colts?  The guy gave it his heart and soul every single time he stepped out there.  He was about as passionate of a player as I have ever seen in the horseshoe.  

 

Luckily, for him, he has other interests and is a very sharp individual with a superb education.  He can find something else to be passionate about and  still make a good living if he desires.  That by no means he 'was never passionate about football.'

 

1 hour ago, NannyMcafee said:

Andrew never proved much. And he retired before he could prove much of anything. 

 

Its easy to say he was talented because he was. However, Andrew was not a winning QB and was injury prone by the time he retired. 

 

If it came down to it, I would take Rivers over Andrew for various reasons including doubts that hes 100% on board with the football life. 

 

A guy like Andrew will continue to play sports outside of football, hence my opinion, protecting himself for his team in the off season wasn't of high priority. 

 

In essence. Andrew wasnt committed to staying healthy. 

 

Are we better without Andrew Luck? Yes. Because we have a QB who takes being a QB seriously both on and off the field. One who isn't playing dangerous sports outside of football. Like... idk.... snow boarding? 

 

Call me bitter. Im just using all the information regarding the latest version of Andrew Luck to form an overall picture of who he is. And that is an injury prone player who won't be on the field for an unknown amount of time because he either will get injured on the field, or get injured off the field. 

 

You have to know when to snow board and when not to... you cant trust a QB who doesn't take his health seriously in the off season. 

 

I'll take Rivers. RIVERS IS A QUARTERBACK who only plays QUARTERBACK. 

 

2 years later this team is better than it was with Andrew in 2018. They have most of the same players, with the additions of potential stars, along with up and coming 2nd year players. Im excited for this team. If Andrew comes back, trade him to the most likely team that will suck for their entire draft picks and draft a new guy along with more stars for this team. 

 

I still believe ballard is successfully building a dynasty. 

 

Andrew wasn't a winner?  He never had a losing season.  He was drafted #1 overall (the Colts were in this position for a reason, they were the worst team in the entire NFL) and took a 2-14 team to an 11-5 record (this team had a bad GM who was new at the job, a first year head coach who is now back to a defensive coordinator and missed a good chunk of the season unexpectedly due to cancer, and lacked talent across the roster).  He was a probowler as a rookie.  Year two he led the Colts to the top of the AFC South and won a playoff game vs. KC which was an absolutely unbelievable performance and he made several unreal plays in a comeback win.  He was a probowler again.  Year 3, he again led the Colts to the top of the AFC South and took us to the AFC Championship game while leading the NFL in touchdown passes and becoming a probowler for a 3rd straight year and threw for 300+ yards in 8 straight games which is an NFL record.  He missed > half of his 4th season.  He was playing with nagging injuries his 5th season and missed the entire 6th season due to injury.  He went 10-6, made the probowl, got named comeback player of the year and won a playoff game in his final season.     

 

So, to say Luck isn't a winner and never proved anything is an absolutely absurd statement.  The guy had a top 2 or 3 start to his career compared to all other QBs in NFL history.  He proved he was tough, he proved he was a winner, and he proved he was among the best QBs in the league by being a probowler every time he was able to play a full season.

 

Not sure if we can say he was injury prone at the end of his career.  He missed an entire season to recover from a shoulder injury that required multiple surgeries.  He came back and played a full 16 games.  By all accounts, it seems like our team doctors improperly diagnosed an injury to his lower leg and he was struggling to recover from it.  While Ballard has since fixed the OL, Grigson had Luck playing behind absolutely atrocious OLs and Luck was getting hit more than any other QB in the league (in many cases it looked like he was running for his life the second the ball got snapped).  Additionally, it sounds like the culture around Grigson was terrible (Frank Gore, Pat McAfee and others attest to this). 

 

Yes, it's unfortunate that Luck got hurt snowboarding in the offseason.  However, these guys are all young men and we can't expect them to lock themselves in a bubble or in a gym or film room all off season.  I'm sure every player in the NFL has hobbies outside of football.  Should we be mad at Isaiah Rodgers for posting a video of him bowling on his instagram (without a mask on even, oh my!)?  Snowboarding is not an overly dangerous sport, it's unfortunate that Luck got hurt doing it, but to say he wasn't committed to staying healthy off the field is also ludicrous - he came to training camp in shape and by all means kept himself healthy away from the football field.  Rivers has 9 kids, I highly doubt that when he's not at football practice or during the offseason that he doesn't do things like throw balls with them, take them in the ocean (more dangerous than a ski resort in many instances), ride bikes with them, goes on vacations with them, etc.etc...

[CF4L]

5 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

 

Luck was never passionate about the game of football?  Did you watch any games he actually played in while he was on the Colts?  The guy gave it his heart and soul every single time he stepped out there.  He was about as passionate of a player as I have ever seen in the horseshoe.  

 

Luckily, for him, he has other interests and is a very sharp individual with a superb education.  He can find something else to be passionate about and  still make a good living if he desires.  That by no means he 'was never passionate about football.'

 

 

 

 

 

Yes I did and I also saw the guy before him and there's no comparison as to who loved football more. 

 

Andrew played because he was good at it and sure liked it enough but the injuries etc piled up and it just wasn't fun for him anymore.  He doesn't live and die for this sport like Manning did. Manning was willing to come back after 4 neck procedures to still play football(and I'm glad he did even if it was elsewhere). Andrew Luck doesn't have that maniacal need to play this game like Manning, Brady etc.

 

He's not obligated to either but no I don't think he was that passionate about the sport he stuck around long enough to be set for life and not live in pain. Good for him but I wouldn't want someone who doesn't want to be all in either. He clearly wasn't in retrospect which is fine but not what you want out of your franchise QB.

 

[Sumo63]

Luck was rad, there's no scenario in which the 2020 colts would not be better with a healthy, motivated, Andrew Luck.  I miss the dude being in the league, and remain an Andrew Luck fan.

 

But in the immortal words of Wessling.......he gone....

 

We are winning it all this year though.  Rest assured, grumpy * Phillip Rivers will do what the even grumpier Jay Cutler never could, solidify his legacy.  This is the year to watch!

[Jackie Daytona]

On 8/24/2020 at 9:49 AM, Smonroe said:

 

I'm not sure we'll ever get better at the QB position than we were in the last 20 plus years.

Sure we will.  Brissets and Hasselbeck aren't hard to upgrade from ....

[Valpo2004]

I don't know if we where better overall than last year's team would have been with Luck under center.  

 

We are certainly better than any of the years that Luck actually took snaps.  

[Valpo2004]

21 hours ago, Nickster said:

Assuming that Brady, Rogers, Roethilisberger, Brees, Wilson, Peyton, and Eli (I think he's a shoo in but I can see an argmument against it), and Mahomes barring injury all make the HOF, that would make 43 out of 54 superbowls that had an HOF QB at the helm.  That is 80% of the time, and that is alot.

 

Other really good to great QBs include Simms, Plunkett, and McMahon.  That is another 5 SBs bringing the total to 89% of the time SBs have been won by QBs who were at least very good.

 

Flacco was a good QB.  Johsnon was pretty great for a while when he could get on the field.

 

Rypien  had some good to great years.

 

Really the only average to below QBs I see on the list of SB winners are  Williams, Foles, Hostetler, and Dilfer.

 

So yeah, its "accurate" to say you don't NEED a great QB to win a SB, but it almost never happens.  By my calculations league average QBs have won 7 percent of the SBs.  That is not a high percentage.

 

You pretty much need an HOF level QB to win a SB.

 

 

 

Are you talking about all SB's or just relatively recent ones.  Because Terry Bradshaw won a bunch of SB's with the Steelers and that is honestly the only reason he's in the HOF.  Look at his stats and he doesn't even come close to stacking up with the best QB's of the 70's.  

[VisitingChargersFan]

Hello Colts fans.  I am a visiting Chargers fan (thus the username) interested in seeing how the addition of Philip Rivers would be viewed by Colts fans.  Honestly, I have been fairly shocked by the tepid reception for Rivers so far among the Colts fanbase. 

 

The good news for you Colts fans is that barring a sudden decline, Rivers is much better than how you all are viewing him.  Also, he appears to be a very good fit for the Colts.  He is familiar with and has a good relationship with Reich.  His immobility is covered by arguably the best offensive line in the NFL, a far better offensive line than Rivers ever had with the Chargers.  His average arm strength is aided by getting to play the majority of his games in indoor stadiums.

 

Some things you may not know about Rivers include that his release has been timed as the fastest in the NFL.  He is an elite anticipatory passer.  When he has a pocket, he is adept at avoiding the pass rush from within the pocket and can see the field and throw from a multitude of different arm angles while doing it.  He is very good at reading defenses and his accuracy is well above average.

 

Over his career, Rivers has had seasons in which he led the NFL in one or more of: attempts, completions, completion percentage, passing yards, touchdowns, touchdown percentage, yards per attempt (three times), and quarterback rating.  He is 6th all time in passing yards and touchdowns (which measures the quantity of his production), but should move into 5th place past Dan Marino in both categories this season, and is one spot behind Peyton Manning at 10th all time in QB rating (which measures the quality of his production).

 

He is also fairly durable, having started every game his team has played over the past 14 seasons (224 consecutive regular season games and 11 playoff games, including one only 6 days after ACL surgery).  And he has done all of that despite having a below average to terrible offensive line for a dozen straight seasons, and likely the worst offensive line in the NFL in 2019 that feautured not a single starting caliber NFL player for most of the season and multiple players that should not be on an NFL roster at all even as a reserve.

 

I understand that Luck played his whole career as a Colt, that the team had some strong seasons with Luck at QB, that Luck had superior physcial gifts, and that Rivers may have been historically viewed as a disliked G-rated trash talking rival, but the stats pretty clearly demonstrate that Rivers is better than Luck (much more accurate, much better career QB rating), so I do not get the view of many here that "Luck is better than Rivers, but the rest of the team may be better overall now than it was two years ago."

 

Man, in my view and by way of encouragement, you guys should be really excited about the addition of Rivers and should be thinking deep playoff run or Super Bowl if your defense shows up to go along with what should easily be a top 10 and quite possibly a top 5 offense.  Rivers is a gigantic upgrade over Brissett.

 

If Rivers is still Rivers and the root cause of his 2019 season was the truly horrible offensive line as I suspect, I would not be surprised at all to see Rivers win the Comeback Player of the Year award (again) and also would not be surprised to see Rivers at least in the discussion as a potential MVP candidate as he was in 2018 (when Okung and Pouncey were healthy and holding together an otherwise suspect offensive line).

 

It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

[Smonroe]

Thanks @VisitingChargersFan

 

It was funny watching Hard Knocks the other night where they were highlighting Keenan Allen going against Chris Harris last season, and Harris had a bunch of INTs.  They were jokingly blaming them on Rivers.

 

He did make more than a few bad throws last season, but he shouldn't have to play hero ball this year.

[NannyMcafee]

On 8/25/2020 at 3:00 PM, CurBeatElite said:

 

Health is my main concern once the games get going.  If healthy, this is the most complete team I have seen in a while.  

 

From week 1 last year to week 1 this year we have improved at QB (Rivers > Brissett), RB (addition of Taylor plus Rivers utilizes RBs as receivers much more than Brissett), WR (addition of Pittman plus another year of experience for Campbell, Pascal, and likely for whoever is our 5th/6th WR be it Dulin, Fountain, Johnson -- plus an unknown with Patmon), DL (addition of Buckner and Day, the news that Lewis looks very good, another year for Banogu), LB (another year of experience for Leonard, Okereke, Speed), DB (additions of Rhodes, Carrie, Wilson plus another year of experience for Willis and Ya Sin), and K (we, hopefully, can't be worse at kicking this year than we were last year).  I also think our return and perhaps overall ST play will be better with Campbell healthy, Hines really emerging as a PR late last year, and potential of guys like I. Rodgers/Dulin/D. Harris and others to emerge as KR threats.  Not sure they're going to make the team but Glasgow and Nix are both said to be stud ST guys.

 

We've stayed the same at P and LS.  We have another year of experience under the OL's belt, so maybe they can be even better but the starting 5 likely isn't going to change and we lost Haeg who was the swiss army knife backup (maybe Pinter can fill that void).  Then TE we lost Ebron and gained Burton (I'd say Ebron's more talented than Burton, but Burton to me seems more like a 'Reich' guy) and we have a healthy MAC with another year experience.

 

So really, overall the only position on the team where we may have dropped off would be TE (though, Ebron did, according to Ballard, kind of quit on the team last year).

 

 

Rivers is if not elite, not too far from it.  He went to the probowl 2016, 2017, 2018 and had solid completion percentages and yards last year although he had a bit of an INT issue playing behind the worst line in the league.  Not saying he's better than Luck in Luck's prime, but he's still up in the top tier of QBs in the league.

 

 

Luck retired early before the season probably so he wouldn't retire mid-season if he got  injured again.  He said in his presser he was retiring because the constant injuries took away his love of the game.  Every time Luck stepped foot on the field in a Colts' uniform he gave 100%.

 

 

Luck got to keep a good chunk of his contract.  He has made boat loads of money on endorsements from Nike, DirectTV, BodyArmor and probably more.  Luck has a degree from Stanford and is highly intelligent, he'll be able to get a very well paying job fairly easily if he ever needs to.  He chose to walk away early so he could live a decent life for the rest of his life and he'll be just fine financially.  He had multiple serious injuries (kidney laceration, concussion) and then very nagging injuries to his shoulder and ankle/lower leg.  

 

Here's what he said in his retirement speech: ""I've been stuck in this process. I haven't been able to live the life I want to live. It's taken the joy out of this game. The only way forward for me is to remove myself from football. This is not an easy decision. It's the hardest decision of my life. But it is the right decision for me.""

 

He knew he wasn't fully invested in football anymore and he told that to the entire world.  Also, how can you blame him?  Have you ever been in a position where you were constantly in rehab or getting surgeries to attempt to fix injuries? If so, did you have a strong desire to continue doing the job you were doing that was the source of that?

 

When Luck played, he was always into it 100% and was one of the fiercest competitors in the entire NFL.

 

 

 

 

Luck was never passionate about the game of football?  Did you watch any games he actually played in while he was on the Colts?  The guy gave it his heart and soul every single time he stepped out there.  He was about as passionate of a player as I have ever seen in the horseshoe.  

 

Luckily, for him, he has other interests and is a very sharp individual with a superb education.  He can find something else to be passionate about and  still make a good living if he desires.  That by no means he 'was never passionate about football.'

 

 

Andrew wasn't a winner?  He never had a losing season.  He was drafted #1 overall (the Colts were in this position for a reason, they were the worst team in the entire NFL) and took a 2-14 team to an 11-5 record (this team had a bad GM who was new at the job, a first year head coach who is now back to a defensive coordinator and missed a good chunk of the season unexpectedly due to cancer, and lacked talent across the roster).  He was a probowler as a rookie.  Year two he led the Colts to the top of the AFC South and won a playoff game vs. KC which was an absolutely unbelievable performance and he made several unreal plays in a comeback win.  He was a probowler again.  Year 3, he again led the Colts to the top of the AFC South and took us to the AFC Championship game while leading the NFL in touchdown passes and becoming a probowler for a 3rd straight year and threw for 300+ yards in 8 straight games which is an NFL record.  He missed > half of his 4th season.  He was playing with nagging injuries his 5th season and missed the entire 6th season due to injury.  He went 10-6, made the probowl, got named comeback player of the year and won a playoff game in his final season.     

 

So, to say Luck isn't a winner and never proved anything is an absolutely absurd statement.  The guy had a top 2 or 3 start to his career compared to all other QBs in NFL history.  He proved he was tough, he proved he was a winner, and he proved he was among the best QBs in the league by being a probowler every time he was able to play a full season.

 

Not sure if we can say he was injury prone at the end of his career.  He missed an entire season to recover from a shoulder injury that required multiple surgeries.  He came back and played a full 16 games.  By all accounts, it seems like our team doctors improperly diagnosed an injury to his lower leg and he was struggling to recover from it.  While Ballard has since fixed the OL, Grigson had Luck playing behind absolutely atrocious OLs and Luck was getting hit more than any other QB in the league (in many cases it looked like he was running for his life the second the ball got snapped).  Additionally, it sounds like the culture around Grigson was terrible (Frank Gore, Pat McAfee and others attest to this). 

 

Yes, it's unfortunate that Luck got hurt snowboarding in the offseason.  However, these guys are all young men and we can't expect them to lock themselves in a bubble or in a gym or film room all off season.  I'm sure every player in the NFL has hobbies outside of football.  Should we be mad at Isaiah Rodgers for posting a video of him bowling on his instagram (without a mask on even, oh my!)?  Snowboarding is not an overly dangerous sport, it's unfortunate that Luck got hurt doing it, but to say he wasn't committed to staying healthy off the field is also ludicrous - he came to training camp in shape and by all means kept himself healthy away from the football field.  Rivers has 9 kids, I highly doubt that when he's not at football practice or during the offseason that he doesn't do things like throw balls with them, take them in the ocean (more dangerous than a ski resort in many instances), ride bikes with them, goes on vacations with them, etc.etc...

 

He was healthy for 3 years, and then nagging injuries for the rest of his career. He wasn't a winner in the sense of he never won a SB. You can win in the regular season all you want but if you dont win it all you arent a winner. 

 

I want a guy who's all about football at the QB position. He clearly didn't take his health seriously hence playing sports in the off season. It got him hurt. Theres a lot of debate on what injured his shoulder to begin with. 

 

Another way he didnt take his health seriously? Extending plays. The smartest guy on the team wasn't so smart when it came to injuries. 

 

Im fine with you loving Andrew and what he's done for this team, and im not prepared to argue with you about my view vs your view. I dont have the emotional energy to try and convince you my view is right for you. 

 

To each his own. My opinion is my own, and I stick by it. 

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

He was healthy for 3 years, and then nagging injuries for the rest of his career. He wasn't a winner in the sense of he never won a SB. You can win in the regular season all you want but if you dont win it all you arent a winner. 

Sorry but that comment is a huge pile of steaming horse dung. 

 

[Nickster]

4 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Are you talking about all SB's or just relatively recent ones.  Because Terry Bradshaw won a bunch of SB's with the Steelers and that is honestly the only reason he's in the HOF.  Look at his stats and he doesn't even come close to stacking up with the best QB's of the 70's.  

All SBs.  70s was a different game.  Bradshaw started his career badly but I think he was pretty good during their SB years.  I do understand what you are saying though.  From 75 to 83 TB was always top 6 to t in rating and near the top in y/a

[NannyMcafee]

50 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Sorry but that comment is a huge pile of steaming horse dung. 

 

 

Im sure my viewpoint is scewed being an outsider looking in. 

[VisitingChargersFan]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Thanks @VisitingChargersFan

 

It was funny watching Hard Knocks the other night where they were highlighting Keenan Allen going against Chris Harris last season, and Harris had a bunch of INTs.  They were jokingly blaming them on Rivers.

 

He did make more than a few bad throws last season, but he shouldn't have to play hero ball this year.

Harris has had good success against the Chargers, so I am glad that the Chargers found a way to end that.  Keenan Allen can't run by anyone in the secondary, but he is usually very good at getting quick separation with elite moves, but Harris did a very good job over the years of sticking with him even though Allen did make Harris look silly on one play in practice shown on the Hard Knocks episode.  The one historically good CB that Allen absolutely abused at will was Richard Sherman, who could not stay with Allen to save his life.

 

Rivers did throw more INTs last year, but I think that was primarily due to the direct and indirect effects of a poor offensive line.  He threw INTs because he was very frequently under almost immediate pressure and he threw INTs because he made a lot of poor decisions because he expected to be under immediate and game altering pressure on virtually every snap whether he actually was or not.  He took chances and played "hero ball" in situations that he would not have last year if he had had his usual below average offensive line instead of the absolutely horrible offensive line that he ended up having.

 

I think that Rivers having a great offensive line and Rivers knowing that he has a great offensive line will cure him of most of those mistakes that he made last year.  There is even part me that considers the possibility that with his best offensive line ever, he just might have his best season ever even at 38+ years of age (for most of the season).  I really do believe that he and the Colts will have a positive outcome in 2020.

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Im sure my viewpoint is scewed being an outsider looking in. 

Your comment suggest that players like Dan Marino and Jim Kelly and a very long list of players of were not winners. 

Super bowls are won by teams and not individual players. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 hours ago, VisitingChargersFan said:

Hello Colts fans.  I am a visiting Chargers fan (thus the username) interested in seeing how the addition of Philip Rivers would be viewed by Colts fans.  Honestly, I have been fairly shocked by the tepid reception for Rivers so far among the Colts fanbase. 

 

The good news for you Colts fans is that barring a sudden decline, Rivers is much better than how you all are viewing him.  Also, he appears to be a very good fit for the Colts.  He is familiar with and has a good relationship with Reich.  His immobility is covered by arguably the best offensive line in the NFL, a far better offensive line than Rivers ever had with the Chargers.  His average arm strength is aided by getting to play the majority of his games in indoor stadiums.

 

Some things you may not know about Rivers include that his release has been timed as the fastest in the NFL.  He is an elite anticipatory passer.  When he has a pocket, he is adept at avoiding the pass rush from within the pocket and can see the field and throw from a multitude of different arm angles while doing it.  He is very good at reading defenses and his accuracy is well above average.

 

Over his career, Rivers has had seasons in which he led the NFL in one or more of: attempts, completions, completion percentage, passing yards, touchdowns, touchdown percentage, yards per attempt (three times), and quarterback rating.  He is 6th all time in passing yards and touchdowns (which measures the quantity of his production), but should move into 5th place past Dan Marino in both categories this season, and is one spot behind Peyton Manning at 10th all time in QB rating (which measures the quality of his production).

 

He is also fairly durable, having started every game his team has played over the past 14 seasons (224 consecutive regular season games and 11 playoff games, including one only 6 days after ACL surgery).  And he has done all of that despite having a below average to terrible offensive line for a dozen straight seasons, and likely the worst offensive line in the NFL in 2019 that feautured not a single starting caliber NFL player for most of the season and multiple players that should not be on an NFL roster at all even as a reserve.

 

I understand that Luck played his whole career as a Colt, that the team had some strong seasons with Luck at QB, that Luck had superior physcial gifts, and that Rivers may have been historically viewed as a disliked G-rated trash talking rival, but the stats pretty clearly demonstrate that Rivers is better than Luck (much more accurate, much better career QB rating), so I do not get the view of many here that "Luck is better than Rivers, but the rest of the team may be better overall now than it was two years ago."

 

Man, in my view and by way of encouragement, you guys should be really excited about the addition of Rivers and should be thinking deep playoff run or Super Bowl if your defense shows up to go along with what should easily be a top 10 and quite possibly a top 5 offense.  Rivers is a gigantic upgrade over Brissett.

 

If Rivers is still Rivers and the root cause of his 2019 season was the truly horrible offensive line as I suspect, I would not be surprised at all to see Rivers win the Comeback Player of the Year award (again) and also would not be surprised to see Rivers at least in the discussion as a potential MVP candidate as he was in 2018 (when Okung and Pouncey were healthy and holding together an otherwise suspect offensive line).

 

It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

I think Rivers is an upgrade over JB and for most his career I have always thought of him as a top 10 QB in the league, couple of seasons even top 5. I am thrilled he is with us.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, Nickster said:

All SBs.  70s was a different game.  Bradshaw started his career badly but I think he was pretty good during their SB years.  I do understand what you are saying though.  From 75 to 83 TB was always top 6 to t in rating and near the top in y/a

Eli Manning won 2 SB's and statistically he doesn't come close to measuring up to Peyton, Brady, Brees, or even Rivers for that matter. His overall win/loss record doesn't either. 

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Eli Manning won 2 SB's and statistically he doesn't come close to measuring up to Peyton, Brady, Brees, or even Rivers for that matter. His overall win/loss record doesn't either. 

IMO if Eli’s name wasn’t Manning, his numbers would speak for themselves.  Take another look.  He was pretty good.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

IMO if Eli’s name wasn’t Manning, his numbers would speak for themselves.  Take another look.  He was pretty good.

I think he belongs in the HOFame but it is because he and his team beat the Pats twice in the SB - he won MVP in both, not saying he wasn't good but Rivers is better statistically and has a much better overall record. Without looking it up I think Eli was a .500 QB, Rivers is 123-101 during his career.

[Thunderbolt]

After we beat the Jags, we'll get better every week. We'll be 6-0 before you know it, believe it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Your comment suggest that players like Dan Marino and Jim Kelly and a very long list of players of were not winners. 

Super bowls are won by teams and not individual players. 

I would take Dan Marino over Terry Bradshaw that is for sure.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would take Dan Marino over Terry Bradshaw that is for sure.

Marino and Dan Fouts both were as talented as any QBs. They just happened to be on teams that were not good enough to win a super bowl. 

The QB position is the one who gets all the glory but there would be no glory without a very talented team around him. 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Marino and Dan Fouts both were as talented as any QBs. They just happened to be on teams that were not good enough to win a super bowl. 

The QB position is the one who gets all the glory but there would be no glory without a very talented team around him. 

 

Jim Kelly and Fran Tarkenton too. 

[ChargingColts]

On 8/24/2020 at 11:02 PM, EastStreet said:

I loved that Bears team lol. My best friend and cousin were huge Bears fans at that time. I had to endure the SB Shuffle wayyyyyyy too much. 

 

It's going to be interesting to see if Foles wins the job in Chicago this year. That's been a messy situation. Flacco might have been a good fit there too lol.

That 1985/86 Playoff/Superbowl run was a travesty for fans.  The Chicago Bears won 15 regular season games and reached the SuperBowl only losing on MNF to Dan Marino in Miami 38-24.

 

In the AFCCG the Dolphins hosted the Patriots in the rain and somehow lost.  

 

That would of been the most anticipated SuperBowl ever to watch the 15-1 Bears in a rematch with the Miami Dolphins and Dan Marino.  Bears beat the Patriots 46-10 and I believe would of beat the Dolphins but would of been a much better game.  Perhaps a 38- 21 Bears victory (and maybe the great Walter Payton would have scored a TD instead of the FB Matt Suey & William Perry).

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

He was healthy for 3 years, and then nagging injuries for the rest of his career. He wasn't a winner in the sense of he never won a SB. You can win in the regular season all you want but if you dont win it all you arent a winner. 

 

I want a guy who's all about football at the QB position. He clearly didn't take his health seriously hence playing sports in the off season. It got him hurt. Theres a lot of debate on what injured his shoulder to begin with. 

 

Another way he didnt take his health seriously? Extending plays. The smartest guy on the team wasn't so smart when it came to injuries. 

 

Im fine with you loving Andrew and what he's done for this team, and im not prepared to argue with you about my view vs your view. I dont have the emotional energy to try and convince you my view is right for you. 

 

To each his own. My opinion is my own, and I stick by it. 

Oh, Dear God....     what a hot mess....

 

You’re right, your opinion, you’re entitled time it.     I wouldn’t want my name associated with this, I’d be too embarrassed.   But maybe that’s just me. 
 

Good luck to you....    hoping we get something of a season so we don’t have more threads like this. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I agree. Andrew Luck gave his heart and soul to our team. He had 4 very good to great seasons. He played behind bad Lines and no running game for most of his career with the exception of 2018. He is a winner = his overall W/L record proves that, not everyone wins a SB. He even won 4 playoff games. If we wanted to get technical we could say Lamar Jackson has won 0 playoff games in 2 tries and he was the MVP.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree. Andrew Luck gave his heart and soul to our team. He had 4 very good to great seasons. He played behind bad Lines and no running game for most of his career with the exception of 2018. He is a winner = his overall W/L record proves that, not everyone wins a SB. He even won 4 playoff games. If we wanted to get technical we could say Lamar Jackson has won 0 playoff games in 2 tries and he was the MVP.

You see 4 very good to great seasons.   I don’t.

 

So many here don’t count 15 and 16 as good years because we went 8-8 and Luck played while beaten up.   But I’d submit those were two of Grigson’s worst teams.  Old, slow, and not very talented.   I think Luck dragged those teams to 8-8.   Without Luck,  I think those Colts teams go 4-12 just as we did in 17.   
 

I never would have guessed that Andrew Luck would be underrated after his career...   How sad. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You see 4 very good to great seasons.   I don’t.

 

So many here don’t count 15 and 16 as good years because we went 8-8 and Luck played while beaten up.   But I’d submit those were two of Grigson’s worst teams.  Old, slow, and not very talented.   I think Luck dragged those teams to 8-8.   Without Luck,  I think those Colts teams go 4-12 just as we did in 17.   
 

I never would have guessed that Andrew Luck would be underrated after his career...   How sad. 

I think Luck is the 3rd greatest QB in Colts history period. I know people love Bert and even Earl but I think Luck was better than both those guys. He was better than Harbaugh too. He wasn't Peyton or Unitas but who is  . I still wish he would come back but I don't see it happening.

[Nickster]

7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think he belongs in the HOFame but it is because he and his team beat the Pats twice in the SB - he won MVP in both, not saying he wasn't good but Rivers is better statistically and has a much better overall record. Without looking it up I think Eli was a .500 QB, Rivers is 123-101 during his career.

Manning’s teams won until his last few years in the league when he was washed up.  His record was really good until he was 35.  The team had their runs, won a couple, and couldn’t rebuild with an aging QB, and the Coughlin saga.

That said, he wouldn’t be HOF conversation material without the 2 SB runs.  The other playoff years weren’t great either.

 

but the SB years playoff runs were some of the best ever by anyone ever, which puts him in the hall.

 

 

lord I’d take Marino 1000 times over BrDahaw but that doesn’t mean TB wasn’t good.  He  was top 5 after his 1st 4 or so years in the league.  But hell no, he wasn’t Marino.

Their careers didn’t over lap though.  TB was out of the league when DM was a rook. 

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

You see 4 very good to great seasons.   I don’t.

 

So many here don’t count 15 and 16 as good years because we went 8-8 and Luck played while beaten up.   But I’d submit those were two of Grigson’s worst teams.  Old, slow, and not very talented.   I think Luck dragged those teams to 8-8.   Without Luck,  I think those Colts teams go 4-12 just as we did in 17.   
 

I never would have guessed that Andrew Luck would be underrated after his career...   How sad. 

I absolutely agree that Andrew drug a bad team into contention.  Great QB.  Too many wth throws at times but a miracle worker for Indy.  

[Nickster]

Fouts was overrated IMO.  That just chucked it down the field on defenses not designed to stop that kind of ball.  He had a couple of great years but they were stacked on offense.

 

indont think he’s as good as TB.  
 

I love fouts as an analyst.  He’s a real fan of the game and enjoys what he does.

[NannyMcafee]

10 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Your comment suggest that players like Dan Marino and Jim Kelly and a very long list of players of were not winners. 

Super bowls are won by teams and not individual players. 

 

I'd like to make it clear. I never said Andrew was a bad, or untalented QB. So stop acting like that IS what I said, or IS what I mean. You can be a great player. Doesn't make you a winner. 

 

However, I am willing to admit, that I am biased against Andrew. To me, he doesn't deserve to be in the ring of honor. A lot of fans agree with my point of view, and I wouldn't be shocked if they weren't biased as well. 

 

If Peyton never won a SB, it would have been a major knock against him, just like it is a major knock against Dan Marino or Kelly. He would be considered a great regular season QB... 

 

Andrew wasn't a player we had never seen the likes of before. There were QBs on his level while he was drafted, during his draft, and players after his draft that have done just as well or better. Because a couple of them have SB wins. 

 

Yeah.. Grigson and Chuck Pagano also had winning records. I guess that, in the smallest sense of the word, make them winners too. Some of you defended them too though, so. 

 

I might be biased against Andrew because of how he retired when he did, to my one and only sports team that I had high hopes and aspirations for a SB in the very near future. 

 

But you guys are just as biased for him. 

 

Call me stupid. Call my posts a "steaming pile of horse dung". Call my post a hot mess. whatever makes you feel smarter i guess.

 

Its still your opinion that regular season wins make you a winning individual. But Brady is considered the Goat in sports right now because he has 6 rings. If he didn't, he wouldn't even be considered that good. If he didn't have 1 SB, he wouldn't be considered a winner.

 

To each their own. I'd appreciate it if those who disagree wouldn't feel the need to say my opinion as horse dung, or a hot mess. But I can't control any of those who disagree. Again. To each his own. 

 

Do we need to keep talking about it? Or do you feel the need to call me stupid too? Does it make you feel better about yourself as a person when you put someone else down for their opinions? Hey, im just curious. 

 

Did I spell everything right? Did I use proper grammar? I hope so. 

[Yoshinator]

9 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I am willing to admit, that I am biased against Andrew. To me, he doesn't deserve to be in the ring of honor. A lot of fans agree with my point of view, and I wouldn't be shocked if they weren't biased as well. 

 

If Peyton never won a SB, it would have been a major knock against him, just like it is a major knock against Dan Marino or Kelly. He would be considered a great regular season QB... 

 

Andrew wasn't a player we had never seen the likes of before. There were QBs on his level while he was drafted, during his draft, and players after his draft that have done just as well or better. Because a couple of them have SB wins. 

 

Yeah.. Grigson and Chuck Pagano also had winning records. I guess that, in the smallest sense of the word, make them winners too. Some of you defended them too though, so. 

 

I might be biased against Andrew because of how he retired when he did, to my one and only sports team that I had high hopes and aspirations for a SB in the very near future. 

 

But you guys are just as biased for him. 

 

Call me stupid. Call my posts a "steaming pile of horse dung". Call my post a hot mess. whatever makes you feel smarter i guess.

 

Its still your opinion that regular season wins make you a winning individual. But Brady is considered the Goat in sports tight now because he has 6 rings. If he didn't, he wouldn't even be considered that good. If he didn't have 1 SB, he wouldn't be considered a winner.

 

To each their own. I'd appreciate it if those who disagree wouldn't feel the need to say my opinion as horse dung, or a hot mess. But I can't control any of those who disagree. Again. To each his own. 

 

Do we need to keep talking about it? Or do you feel the need to call me stupid too? Does it make you feel better about yourself as a person when you put someone else down for their opinions? Hey, im just curious. 

 

Did I spell everything right? Did I use proper grammar? I hope so. 

Great post, my friend. I'm biased against him too. Not because he didn't win us a SB or make one, but because I feel he wasted my time. Andrew went through the hard times with Pagano and Grigson, re-signed a second contract with the Colts, had Ballard as his GM, and abruptly quit after a fun 2018 season just as things were getting good and he started to have a great team around him (including an elite o-line).

 

That's the bottom line, he wasted my time, he wasted Irsay's time, Reich's time, Ballard's time and all his teammates time. He had little to no passion for the game and hardly cared about it, and I'll never forgive him for all that.

[NannyMcafee]

17 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Great post, my friend. I'm biased against him too. Not because he didn't win us a SB or make one, but because I feel he wasted my time. Andrew went through the hard times with Pagano and Grigson, re-signed a second contract with the Colts, had Ballard as his GM, and abruptly quit after a fun 2018 season just as things were getting good and he started to have a great team around him (including an elite o-line).

 

That's the bottom line, he wasted my time, he wasted Irsay's time, Reich's time, Ballard's time and all his teammates time. He had little to no passion for the game and hardly cared about it, and I'll never forgive him for all that.

 

Ballard was * how the Luck family handled everything going on with Andrew. 

 

Andrew is highly talented. Good enough to be a SB winning QB. Talent wise, was up there with the best of them. 

 

I just dont understand why I have to respect him like he was at Peytons level.

 

He waited until a week before the season to retire. To me, that is disrespectful to your current team, and fans. You threw the season into the dumpster walked away into the sunset a happy man (according to reports). To me that screams a player who isnt dedicated. Feels no obligation to his "team", and took the out. 

 

Did you know Pat Mcafee is considered one if the goats of punters? And yet, i dont see him as selfish. Maybe because he didn't wait until a week before the season that you were considered SB favorites. 

 

If Andrew left when the last regime got fired, I honestly wouldn't have felt personally betrayed. It doesn't help that he waited for the news to break to tell people, which means, he would have waited even longer to tell everyone. Let alone a week before the season. The sooner the better. Youre telling me as a 7 year vet, you didn't know that football makes you hurt? It wasn't until a week before the season that you decided it was gonna hurt too much? The way everything with Andrew was handled, with all the injuries the last 4 years, it was all secret. Cant tell anyone anything. Keep it all under wraps.... to me tbat is deceptive. How anyone can feel anything but lied to for 3-4 years of injuries is beyond me. 

 

Anyways. I am biased against him, and his actions have gone a long way towards my biased opinion. 

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Ballard was * how the Luck family handled everything going on with Andrew. 

 

Andrew is highly talented. Good enough to be a SB winning QB. Talent wise, was up there with the best of them. 

 

I just dont understand why I have to respect him like he was at Peytons level.

 

He waited until a week before the season to retire. To me, that is disrespectful to your current team, and fans. You threw the season into the dumpster walked away into the sunset a happy man (according to reports). To me that screams a player who isnt dedicated. Feels no obligation to his "team", and took the out. 

 

Did you know Pat Mcafee is considered one if the goats of punters? And yet, i dont see him as selfish. Maybe because he didn't wait until a week before the season that you were considered SB favorites. 

 

If Andrew left when the last regime got fired, I honestly wouldn't have felt personally betrayed. It doesn't help that he waited for the news to break to tell people, which means, he would have waited even longer to tell everyone. Let alone a week before the season. The sooner the better. 

 

Anyways. I am biased against him, and his actions have gone a long way towards my biased opinion. 

Agree with all of this. He gave us no time to prepare for 2019. It would of been better if he just retired after Grigson left and gave Ballard a complete fresh start in 2017. We would probably have a rookie that year like Watson or Mahomes (in a trade up) that would have broken out for us and been our franchise QB. Ballard scouted Mahomes in KC the year prior and was very high on him, so it wouldn't of been out of this world if we traded up for him if Luck was gone in 2017.

[NannyMcafee]

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Agree with all of this. He gave us no time to prepare for 2019. It would of been better if he just retired after Grigson left and gave Ballard a complete fresh start in 2017. We would probably have a rookie that year like Watson or Mahomes (in a trade up) that would have broken out for us and been our franchise QB. Ballard scouted Mahomes in KC the year prior and was very high on him, so it wouldn't of been out of this world if we traded up for him if Luck was gone in 2017.

 

The only thing worse than that would have been retiring week 1 of the regular season. I dont understand why people hate on me so much for not kissing Andrews *. 

 

If Andrew comes back, I hope Ballard trades him for a fortune. You'd see this team be that dynasty without having to worry about a QB whom isnt fully dedicated. 

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

The only thing worse than that would have been retiring week 1 of the regular season. I dont understand why people hate on me so much for not kissing Andrews *. 

 

If Andrew comes back, I hope Ballard trades him for a fortune. You'd see this team be that dynasty without having to worry about a QB whom isnt fully dedicated. 

They do the same to me. Luck was a great QB when healthy. It isn't about how good he was though. It's his lack of passion, lack of heart, and the way he shamelessly quit on the organization and all of it's fans. That's why a number of us on this forum are so bitter about it. It's like leaving your wife when she's in the hospital about to have surgery.

[NannyMcafee]

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

They do the same to me. Luck was a great QB when healthy. It isn't about how good he was though. It's his lack of passion, lack of heart, and the way he shamelessly quit on the organization and all of it's fans. That's why a number of us on this forum are so bitter about it. It's like leaving your wife when she's in the hospital about to have surgery.

 

Or more like everyone been around you and your gf for the last 7 years, and then everyone's like this is the year they're getting married, and a week before the wedding you up and say never mind. Bye Felicia. 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Or more like everyone been around you and your gf for the last 7 years, and then everyone's like this is the year they're getting married, and a week before the wedding you up and say never mind. Bye Felicia. 

Haha yeah, that's probably a better example. Or another one is you are in a real war and you go AWOL on your squad when the battle starts, letting them all die (an extreme example). In any case, I no longer miss him and have no respect for him. He showed his true colors and how much class he has. We move on without him.

[NannyMcafee]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Haha yeah, that's probably a better example. Or another one is you are in a real war and you go AWOL on your squad when the battle starts, letting them all die (an extreme example). In any case, I no longer miss him and have no respect for him. He showed his true colors and how much class he has. We move on without him.

 

Im excited about this current team. Even Philip Rivers. This team is SB bound.