Luck Retirement One Year On: Are We Better?

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I loved that Bears team lol. My best friend and cousin were huge Bears fans at that time. I had to endure the SB Shuffle wayyyyyyy too much. 

 

It's going to be interesting to see if Foles wins the job in Chicago this year. That's been a messy situation. Flacco might have been a good fit there too lol.

Yeah my mom even watched football that season (1985)  . She always tells me that was the best team ever. They should've went undefeated I will admit that. Marino got them for their only loss. 18-1 is still damn impressive. The SB against the Pats was a joke, they toyed with them. 

[EastStreet]

20 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah my mom even watched football that season (1985)  . She always tells me that was the best team ever. They should've went undefeated I will admit that. Marino got them for their only loss. 18-1 is still damn impressive. The SB against the Pats was a joke, they toyed with them. 

They were entertaining if nothing else. Loved the Fridge and Payton. I became a 100% Colts fan in Dec83, but the Bears got a lot of love from Indy folks given the history and not having a team for so long. I didn't really care about the Bears if I'm honest (most of my family were Cowboys and Steelers fans), but I always cheered for them with my friends and family who were fans.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, EastStreet said:

They were entertaining if nothing else. Loved the Fridge and Payton. I became a 100% Colts fan in Dec83, but the Bears got a lot of love from Indy folks given the history and not having a team for so long. I didn't really care about the Bears if I'm honest (most of my family were Cowboys and Steelers fans), but I always cheered for them with my friends and family who were fans.

I always figured you younger than that. How old are you out of curiousity?

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

They were entertaining if nothing else. Loved the Fridge and Payton. I became a 100% Colts fan in Dec83, but the Bears got a lot of love from Indy folks given the history and not having a team for so long. I didn't really care about the Bears if I'm honest (most of my family were Cowboys and Steelers fans), but I always cheered for them with my friends and family who were fans.

Yeah I was never a Bears fan either but 1985 was pretty cool. A lot of people loved that team  . I was a Colts fan once the move happened in 1984 eventhough we sucked until Dickerson arrived in 1987.

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I always figured you younger than that. How old are you out of curiousity?

I think he is older than me, I am 49. 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I always figured you younger than that. How old are you out of curiousity?

Nope, born early 70s. I feel a lot younger than that though lol. 

 

I was 100% Blue the day the trucks pulled in.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I was never a Bears fan either but 1985 was pretty cool. A lot of people loved that team  . I was a Colts fan once the move happened in 1984 eventhough we sucked until Dickerson arrived in 1987.

I think he is older than me, I am 49. 

I'm 33, so I was just curious. He always seemed to me like a new-age stats and analytics guy to me. Surprised he was that old. He's definitely one of the top posters on the site.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, EastStreet said:

Nope, born early 70s. I feel a lot younger than that though lol. 

 

I was 100% Blue the day the trucks pulled in.

Yeah you are my age basically. I started watching sports in the late 70's but like you became a Colts fan once we got a team. I have been a Cubs fan forever but we have no baseball team, I chose them over the Reds at an early age. Around here it was the Cubs or Reds.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm 33, so I was just curious. He always seemed to me like a new-age stats and analytics guy to me. Surprised he was that old. He's definitely one of the top posters on the site.

I was a math/science guy growing up :-) and never lost my love for stats and analytics. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm 33, so I was just curious. He always seemed to me like a new-age stats and analytics guy to me. Surprised he was that old. He's definitely one of the top posters on the site.

You grew up with Peyton, I am glad you were able to witness that era. 2003-2009 was unreal.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

I was a math/science guy growing up :-) and never lost my love for stats and analytics. 

I love stats too. I was always great in math. Stats show a lot but not everything. It doesn't show clutchness, heart, or leadership. Having said that stats are very important to determine things.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah you are my age basically. I started watching sports in the late 70's but like you became a Colts fan once we got a team. I have been a Cubs fan forever but we have no baseball team, I chose them over the Reds at an early age. Around here it was the Cubs or Reds.

I live for ND and Colts football. Love the Pacers and IU BB, but much bigger FB fan that BB these days. I cheer for both the Cubs and Reds as doubly painful as that has been lol. Probably a bigger Cubs fan, but loved Johnny Bench and Pete Rose. 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I was a math/science guy growing up :-) and never lost my love for stats and analytics. 

Same here. I look at things through stats and analytics as well and could never get my parents and friends to think that way. Luckily, there's people online to talk to that have a high level of understanding of football when your friends and family refuse to cooperate!  

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I love stats too. I was always great in math. Stats show a lot but not everything. It doesn't show clutchness, heart, or leadership. Having said that stats are very important to determine things.

Yup, just part of the picture. 

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You grew up with Peyton, I am glad you were able to witness that era. 2003-2009 was unreal.

I'm spoiled rotten when it comes to football and the Colts, and I love it! Been very fortunate as a fan.  

[Yoshinator]

I never got into the draft though until 2009. I remember watching colt mccoy and jordan shipley play in college back then and thinking they were first round picks. Little did I know at that point!  

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I live for ND and Colts football. Love the Pacers and IU BB, but much bigger FB fan that BB these days. I cheer for both the Cubs and Reds as doubly painful as that has been lol. Probably a bigger Cubs fan, but loved Johnny Bench and Pete Rose. 

Tell me about it, I had to wait forever for the Cubs to finally win a WS. They have been solid now for a while and good this year. I am Pacers fan as well and they just flopped in the playoffs 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Same here. I look at things through stats and analytics as well and could never get my parents and friends to think that way. Luckily, there's people online to talk to that have a high level of understanding of football when your friends and family refuse to cooperate!  

Nothing wrong with casual fans lol. Some just want to tune and watch. I have a lot of friends that are like that, but have several that love stats too. My best friend back in Indy is a huge Colts fan, but could care less about stats. I probably talk more FB with my stat head friends though. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I never got into the draft though until 2009. I remember watching colt mccoy and jordan shipley play in college back then and thinking they were first round picks. Little did I know at that point!  

It is probably because the draft was almost meaningless to us until then because we had Peyton and were winning so much. The draft over the last few years has been critical.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Nothing wrong with casual fans lol. Some just want to tune and watch. I have a lot of friends that are like that, but have several that love stats too. My best friend back in Indy is a huge Colts fan, but could care less about stats. I probably talk more FB with my stat head friends though. 

Yeah, my mom is a broncos fan, and she knows the players, so I'll come over on Sunday and watch the games with her. It's still fun and she gets genuinely excited. She always gets confused when I get upset over individual players hurting me in fantasy and I have to explain it to her.  Broncos get a td, I cheer with her, it's the wrong receiver, i get upset.  

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Tell me about it, I had to wait forever for the Cubs to finally win a WS. They have been solid now for a while and good this year. I am Pacers fan as well and they just flopped in the playoffs 

It was indeed a long wait. I've been pretty happy with them this year so far. Cinci is just a dumpster fire lol. 

 

Pacers really irritate me. Swept two years in a row. I love VO, but he's not the answer to lead this team as the #1 guy. The FO needs to get another true legit superstar. We've got a lot of great pieces, just doesn't feel like we have an identity. I think we would have made the series close if Sabonis wasn't out, but still doubt we would have gone far. I'm running out of patience with IU BB too. Nice recruiting class this year though. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm spoiled rotten when it comes to football and the Colts, and I love it! Been very fortunate as a fan.  

Yeah it is tough to have Peyton and Luck your entire life, then don't. Rivers is a nice upgrade though from JB.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah, my mom is a broncos fan, and she knows the players, so I'll come over on Sunday and watch the games with her. It's still fun and she gets genuinely excited. She always gets confused when I get upset over individual players hurting me in fantasy and I have to explain it to her.  Broncos get a td, I cheer with her, it's the wrong receiver, i get upset.  

I don't do Fantasy. I've been really tempted, but too much of a time drain lol. I played in two leagues one year, and won one of them. I know it's taken the joy out of the game for a few friends and if I'm honest, detracted for me too. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It was indeed a long wait. I've been pretty happy with them this year so far. Cinci is just a dumpster fire lol. 

 

Pacers really irritate me. Swept two years in a row. I love VO, but he's not the answer to lead this team as the #1 guy. The FO needs to get another true legit superstar. We've got a lot of great pieces, just doesn't feel like we have an identity. I think we would have made the series close if Sabonis wasn't out, but still doubt we would have gone far. I'm running out of patience with IU BB too. Nice recruiting class this year though. 

I lived for IU basketball when Bobby Knight was there. I even like Davis at the beginning. I still follow them but it isn't the same IMO as it was in the 80's and 90's. If we had Sabonis the Miami series probably goes 7 but we still probably lose. He makes a huge difference. Pacers won't go over the Cap and spend big money for another star. That has always been the problem with them.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I don't do Fantasy. I've been really tempted, but too much of a time drain lol. I played in two leagues one year, and won one of them. I know it's taken the joy out of the game for a few friends and if I'm honest, detracted for me too. 

I never did Fantasy until 2015. I always thought winning was more important than stats is why. I got talked into doing it and have been addicted since 2015. I have won my 12 man league 2 years in a row now. It does suck though you have to root for players you don't like at times lol. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah, my mom is a broncos fan, and she knows the players, so I'll come over on Sunday and watch the games with her. It's still fun and she gets genuinely excited. She always gets confused when I get upset over individual players hurting me in fantasy and I have to explain it to her.  Broncos get a td, I cheer with her, it's the wrong receiver, i get upset.  

When the Broncos got Peyton they were my 1b. I am so glad Peyton won that important 2nd SB. That 2nd SB is huge history wise.

[Patagonia Chris]

4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

How can you say no at this point?

This team is much more talented than last year and the depth is also much better. 

Yes the QB has to be good but the QB position is not what makes a team ready for a super bowl. 

If that were the case why didn't the Colts win more than one super bowl with Manning? 

The very reason Brady is wearing his rings is because of the teams he played on. 

Example- The 85 Bears. Jim McMahon was not a great QB by no means. 

 

What passes for defense now isn't even a semblance of what the Bears were able to do. The changes in rules to favor the QB in the modern era has completely changed how teams approach team building. Making a comparison to a team from 35 years ago isn't a valid comparison. I mean Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl with an all time great defense. This defense isn't the Ravens or Bears of those eras.

[EastStreet]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I never did Fantasy until 2015. I always thought winning was more important than stats is why. I got talked into doing it and have been addicted since 2015. I have won my 12 man league 2 years in a row now. It does suck though you have to root for players you don't like at times lol. 

I like it from a strategy perspective, but it takes a lot to time. And I hate cheering for some players lol.

 

Hitting the pillow. Y'all be good.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

What passes for defense now isn't even a semblance of what the Bears were able to do. The changes in rules to favor the QB in the modern era has completely changed how teams approach team building. Making a comparison to a team from 35 years ago isn't a valid comparison. I mean Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl with an all time great defense. This defense isn't the Ravens or Bears of those eras.

Yeah I think the 5 best defenses I have ever seen are the 78 Steelers when I first started watching, 85 Bears, 86 Giants with LT, 2000 Ravens, and the 2015 Broncos. 2002 Bucs get an honorable mention. Our defense isn't close to those. 2013 Seahawks were awesome too. 2000 Ravens were probably #1.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I think the 5 best defenses I have ever seen are the 78 Steelers when I first started watching, 85 Bears, 86 Giants with LT, 2000 Ravens, and the 2015 Broncos. 2002 Bucs get an honorable mention. Our defense isn't close to those. 2013 Seahawks were awesome too. 2000 Ravens were probably #1.

I would love to see the 78 Steelers play today with 70's rules  . No teeth Lambert would probably clothesline the opposing teams best offensive WR or RB and laugh about it. Back then he wouldn't get ejected.

[Patagonia Chris]

27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I think the 5 best defenses I have ever seen are the 78 Steelers when I first started watching, 85 Bears, 86 Giants with LT, 2000 Ravens, and the 2015 Broncos. 2002 Bucs get an honorable mention. Our defense isn't close to those. 2013 Seahawks were awesome too. 2000 Ravens were probably #1.

 

Pretty wild that Kerry Collins faced Trent Dilfer in a Super Bowl, huh?

[2006Coltsbestever]

26 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

Pretty wild that Kerry Collins faced Trent Dilfer in a Super Bowl, huh?

Yeah that is strange, who would've thought that??

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, CF4L said:

 

On paper but you still have to play the games. The Colts started off well at 5-2 but still missed the playoffs. 

Funny you mention the Bears that's the only SB they won. I do agree that you need more than QB to win championships but I think Luck is more talented and with a better roster and him I trust more than Philip Rivers which was what I thought the question was.

 

Unfortunately he lacked heart to play this game it was something he was good at but he was never passionate about it. Which is fine but not the makeup for a franchise QB either.

As I said in another thread, What made Luck so fun to watch is what contributed to the demise of his career. 

Add his infamous snowboarding incident that just added to the injury issues. 

 

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

What passes for defense now isn't even a semblance of what the Bears were able to do. The changes in rules to favor the QB in the modern era has completely changed how teams approach team building. Making a comparison to a team from 35 years ago isn't a valid comparison. I mean Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl with an all time great defense. This defense isn't the Ravens or Bears of those eras.

That was not the point I was attempting to make. 

My point was a team does not have to have a great QB to win the super bowl. If they have the talent and are deep enough to cover injuries they have a very good chance.

Also if they are disciplined enough to avoid penalties (especially at crucial times of the game) the odds go up. 

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Texans are about to fall apart soon, this may be their last competitive year for awhile. Tennessee is really good, and they will be our competition in the division. Very underrated team. I'll say we finish 10-6/11-5, the Titans finish 9-7, and the Texans finish 7-9/8-8. The Jags are going to be in the mix for the no1 pick obviously.

Texans roster is aging, I think Hopkins helped to make Watson more than Watson helped Hopkins so I think that's really going to hurt them.  Hopkins was their version of TY for us.

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Jags might be in lose for Lawrence mode  

It's the Jags, im sure somehow they will find a way to bungle that one. You're also assuming Lawrence comes out this year, with the NCAA granting current players another year of eligibility, he could stay, however unlikely it is. 

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

That was not the point I was attempting to make. 

My point was a team does not have to have a great QB to win the super bowl. If they have the talent and are deep enough to cover injuries they have a very good chance.

Also if they are disciplined enough to avoid penalties (especially at crucial times of the game) the odds go up. 

Agreed. I will say this, however: If you want to win multiple Super Bowls and become a "dynasty" you need a really good QB who can provide stability for years to come. 

 

We all know the main example of this, so I'll try someone else: Russell Wilson and the Seahawks. His defense is not even close to what it was during the early years, yet Wilson has helped lead his team to the playoffs nearly every season. If you have that kind of QB, who can get you those seasonal wins and into the playoffs, all bets are off. 

 

I'm 100% a supporter of what you're saying though. A stacked team with a deep bench is more than capable of winning it all. The Eagles come to mind. 

[landrus13]

4 hours ago, RollerColt said:

Agreed. I will say this, however: If you want to win multiple Super Bowls and become a "dynasty" you need a really good QB who can provide stability for years to come. 

 

We all know the main example of this, so I'll try someone else: Russell Wilson and the Seahawks. His defense is not even close to what it was during the early years, yet Wilson has helped lead his team to the playoffs nearly every season. If you have that kind of QB, who can get you those seasonal wins and into the playoffs, all bets are off. 

 

I'm 100% a supporter of what you're saying though. A stacked team with a deep bench is more than capable of winning it all. The Eagles come to mind. 

Jags a few years ago. Didn't win the SB but got to the AFC title game with Bortles and actually led most of that game. That defense was pretty good. Not at the level of those defenses but still pretty good. Might have won that game if they had a better QB though. Not really comparable because they sucked the next year but it's along those lines.

[NannyMcafee]

Andrew never proved much. And he retired before he could prove much of anything. 

 

Its easy to say he was talented because he was. However, Andrew was not a winning QB and was injury prone by the time he retired. 

 

If it came down to it, I would take Rivers over Andrew for various reasons including doubts that hes 100% on board with the football life. 

 

A guy like Andrew will continue to play sports outside of football, hence my opinion, protecting himself for his team in the off season wasn't of high priority. 

 

In essence. Andrew wasnt committed to staying healthy. 

 

Are we better without Andrew Luck? Yes. Because we have a QB who takes being a QB seriously both on and off the field. One who isn't playing dangerous sports outside of football. Like... idk.... snow boarding? 

 

Call me bitter. Im just using all the information regarding the latest version of Andrew Luck to form an overall picture of who he is. And that is an injury prone player who won't be on the field for an unknown amount of time because he either will get injured on the field, or get injured off the field. 

 

You have to know when to snow board and when not to... you cant trust a QB who doesn't take his health seriously in the off season. 

 

I'll take Rivers. RIVERS IS A QUARTERBACK who only plays QUARTERBACK. 

 

2 years later this team is better than it was with Andrew in 2018. They have most of the same players, with the additions of potential stars, along with up and coming 2nd year players. Im excited for this team. If Andrew comes back, trade him to the most likely team that will suck for their entire draft picks and draft a new guy along with more stars for this team. 

 

I still believe ballard is successfully building a dynasty. 

[Nickster]

Well no.  We are not a better football team without Andrew Luck.  With Luck last year we would have been contenders and even better this year.  

 

So no.  We are not better than we were before Luck's retirement.  We still wouldn't have been able to beat KC last year, but we should have been able to close the gap this year.

[Nickster]

On 8/24/2020 at 8:52 AM, DaveA1102 said:

 

Sad, but entirely probable.  Only one Superbowl from it too.

Yeah, but it was kinda a QB like mega era.  Manning was great, but so were Brady, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Brees, etc.  Those teams won alot of Superbowls.

 

Manning did somewhat choke in the playoffs no doubt.  But he was also asked to do more against elite teams than anyone else.  

 

Luck's teams were Grigson trash, and he was friggin amazing.  Too many bad decisions sometimes but extremely underappreicaited IMO

[Patagonia Chris]

7 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

That was not the point I was attempting to make. 

My point was a team does not have to have a great QB to win the super bowl. If they have the talent and are deep enough to cover injuries they have a very good chance.

Also if they are disciplined enough to avoid penalties (especially at crucial times of the game) the odds go up. 

That makes sense.