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Brissett feels he’s still starter material.


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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Even if you think Jacoby is wrong.,,,   Even if you think he’s delusional....   don’t you at least want a guy who believes in himself?   I sure do. 
 

I don’t give two cents about JB’s contract.   I only care about him helping the team both on and off the field.   That’s all that matters.

Honestly, folks amaze me with their thoughts sometimes. Any QB who is currently backing up a starter, and doesn't believe he is capable of playing starter football......I want no where near this team. 

 

Perhaps they would "feel better" if he said, "I'm not a starter....I'm a backup, and that's my ceiling". It might make those fans happy, but it would make me nauseous. 

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I said Jacoby not Andrew luck

That's a good one Jacoby. I'm out of breath.   Ok, one more time.  lol!

Since it looks like you're looking for a rehash with more than "nothing"... Here ya go. I'd challenge that both of your posts were highly anecdotal with very little substance. Here's a bit of substanc

2 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

I disagree with your evaluation and don't see how Blake Bortles failing in the NFL "demonstrates " anything that proves Brissett's skill level. 

You don't?  Really?  The fact that Bortled washed out with a better roster around him doesn't suggest something to you about a guy who's still here?

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15 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

You don't?  Really?  The fact that Bortled washed out with a better roster around him doesn't suggest something to you about a guy who's still here?

 

No I don't. It has nothing to do with Brissett not having good accuracy , field vision or his ability to read a defense. This is why Ballard is moving on. This is also why he's still on our roster. If some GM's in the league had your evaluation ( around 11th -15th... I guess that's what you said) , they would have traded him before the April draft. Seems to me the evidence points to Brissett being valued by the Colts and the teams that had need for a QB ,as a back-up. But hey .. your entitled to your opinion but that crazy Bortles comparison certainly proves zero.

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1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Ballard didn't gamble by paying Brissett starter QB money. 

The contract Brissett signed has not effected signing anyone Ballard wanted to sign. They signed Rivers didn't they? They also signed Buckner to a pretty huge contract didn't they? 

They still are expected to lead the NFL in cap space in 2021. 

Using JBs contract as a negative is fruitless. 

 

It was definitely a gamble...nothing forced Ballard to give JB that money...or set it up in a way that most of the gtd cap hit was the following year. I love 95% of what Ballard does...but it seems like he has become infallible. I don't care whose money it is...he gambled...he gave JB a huge raise...and then put a huge $21M cap hit into the following year because he was betting that JB would prove capable and they could re-sign him this past offseason to a big multi-year deal and re-introduce him as the starting QB going forward (and effectively move on from the Luck era). It was going to be a tremendous victory lap for Ballard and Reich. But it was far from a guarantee...and it didn't work...so now they are stuck with a $21M backup QB...and had to shell out $25M more to get Rivers. There is no way having QBs account for $50M+ on the 2020 salary cap was an expected outcome when Luck retired.

 

Unless you are on Zoom calls with Ballard...how do you know what impact it has (or will have) on roster construction? This is quite the assertion that I have seen multiple times. 

 

It's $21M in cap space that they no longer have...more than 10% of the salary cap this year on a backup QB. It's also $21M in cap they can't roll over...which would be really valuable with some guys needing new contracts (the fact that the cap could go down due to COVID makes it even more valuable now unfortunately). 

 

And yes...the deal is a negative value...as far as roster construction is concerned. You can spin about his locker room presence, leadership or whatever...but as it pertains to roster construction and production in a salary cap league...he is a negative value at that cost. Again...it's not about whose money is being wasted...it's about the value and how it helps the team.

 

But we can agree on the fact that this debate is a fruitless endeavor. I know no one's going to change their opinion...but that fact doesn't change my opinion...the same one I had when they gave JB that deal. 

 

And to think...so many Colts fans (including many here) crucified JAC for signing and then having to trade Foles...and eat some dead cap space. Yet the Foles deal ended up costing JAC only $2.5M more in cap space than JB will cost the Colts...and JAC got back a 4th round pick and moved on.

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24 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

It was definitely a gamble...nothing forced Ballard to give JB that money...or set it up in a way that most of the gtd cap hit was the following year. I love 95% of what Ballard does...but it seems like he has become infallible. I don't care whose money it is...he gambled...he gave JB a huge raise...and then put a huge $21M cap hit into the following year because he was betting that JB would prove capable and they could re-sign him this past offseason to a big multi-year deal and re-introduce him as the starting QB going forward (and effectively move on from the Luck era). It was going to be a tremendous victory lap for Ballard and Reich. But it was far from a guarantee...and it didn't work...so now they are stuck with a $21M backup QB...and had to shell out $25M more to get Rivers. There is no way having QBs account for $50M+ on the 2020 salary cap was an expected outcome when Luck retired.

 

Unless you are on Zoom calls with Ballard...how do you know what impact it has (or will have) on roster construction? This is quite the assertion that I have seen multiple times. 

 

It's $21M in cap space that they no longer have...more than 10% of the salary cap this year on a backup QB. It's also $21M in cap they can't roll over...which would be really valuable with some guys needing new contracts (the fact that the cap could go down due to COVID makes it even more valuable now unfortunately). 

 

And yes...the deal is a negative value...as far as roster construction is concerned. You can spin about his locker room presence, leadership or whatever...but as it pertains to roster construction and production in a salary cap league...he is a negative value at that cost. Again...it's not about whose money is being wasted...it's about the value and how it helps the team.

 

But we can agree on the fact that this debate is a fruitless endeavor. I know no one's going to change their opinion...but that fact doesn't change my opinion...the same one I had when they gave JB that deal. 

 

And to think...so many Colts fans (including many here) crucified JAC for signing and then having to trade Foles...and eat some dead cap space. Yet the Foles deal ended up costing JAC only $2.5M more in cap space than JB will cost the Colts...and JAC got back a 4th round pick and moved on.

“Ballard has become infallible”?!?    Wrong.

 

Ballard has always been fallible.   Because he’s human.   Humans make mistakes.   Everyone does.   Even Bill Belichick.  He makes mistakes too.

 

And if you’re going to blame Ballard for the Jacoby contract then you’d better give him all the credit for being so far below the cap that he can afford the JB cap hit, the new Buckner contract, the new AC contract, and the Rivers contract.   All that, and we are still way below the cap — 7th most available money this year. And ‘21 projections show we have the most cap space next year.

 

In other words, you’re complaining over nothing.   There isn’t a problem but you feel the need to + and moan anyway.   Over nothing.   Congrats. 

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6 hours ago, Myles said:

Where are you seeing "hate" for Brissett?    Saying he isn't a good starter isn't hate for him being the backup.   

I don't think he is the best back up in the league.   That would probably be Andy Dalton, Nick Foles, Tua and a couple more may be in the running.   Brissett is a top 5 backup for sure though.   

Seriously?  People on here want him cut no questions asked.   

Foles will be the starter in Chicago and will Tua in Miami.  Maybe not right away, but as soon as he's ready 

So that would make Fitz the backup, and I'll give you Fitz as better.  Dalton eh.   He's about on par with JB.  I wouldn't trade JB for Dalton.

 

Again I am not a JB fan as a starter, but he's a damn good backup for this team, especially with a new starter that he can help along the way.   

There is a lot more to being a backup QB in the NFL that just taking keel down snaps in a blow out. My guess is that Rivers wouldn't give up JB for any other back up in the league.

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28 minutes ago, WifiGuy said:

There is a lot more to being a backup QB in the NFL that just taking keel down snaps in a blow out.

I agree. This is what I posted in another thread....

 

"If you think the only thing a QB can contribute is their play on the field, you might want to educate yourself"

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3 hours ago, shasta519 said:

Now I am not saying he had the best situation in the NFL last year...but it certainly was not a bad one. He had all offseason to take the QB1 snaps in practice and develop rapport. He had an elite OL that gave him time...and a strong running game to open things up and move the chains. Injuries to WRs are not ideal...but they are not enough to make a QB look as bad as JB did for the last half of last season...where he was in the conversation for the worst starting QB in the NFL. 

Do not mention he was talked about being a pro bowl player when the team was 5-2. That wouldn't fit your narrative. 

Just after his injury and the injuries to the receiving crew have you entered the picture with making your opinion. 

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8 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

That's because he had an unsustainable TD %...propped up by playcalling near the EZ and short yardage TDs. After the DEN game...9 of his 14 passing TDs came from within 5 yards (8 from within 4 yards). But at that point in the season...the Colts had ran only 11 more pass plays than run plays...but had a 14:4 passing to rushing TD ratio (and one was of those rushing TDs was JB on a scramble).

 

It was just TD distribution...and it was going to regress big time...which it did. 

 

Did it regress because of playcalling, or because of team injuries? You're placing a lot on Brissett's shoulders that was out of his control. Ebron quitting on the team, Hilton being injured and Campbell being a non-factor late was a big part of that too. Check my guess, but I'm assuming something like 12-13 of those TDs were to those guys. I do remember Jack Doyle having one, and maybe Chester Rogers, but it's been a year now. 

 

I'm not saying by any measure that Brissett was putting up 40 TDs last year, but 29-31 if he was healthy and the team stayed healthy wasn't out of the question. Maaaaybe even 33-35 but that's pushing the top edge of the stats. I just don't think its fair to lay all the blame at this dude's feet when the situation he got when he came back after being injured was really, really rough. 

Ultimately, JB really fits in the dead center of how the various members of the forum view him. He's not nearly as terrible as people say, and he's not as good as other people say. The truth is more in the average, really. Frank Reich did a fantastic job utilizing Brissett's strengths, and it shows- with us winning what? 5 of 7, and even beating the eventual SB champs on their own turf. 

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8 hours ago, Dark_Indy said:

 



Ultimately, JB really fits in the dead center of how the various members of the forum view him. He's not nearly as terrible as people say, and he's not as good as other people say. The truth is more in the average, really. Frank Reich did a fantastic job utilizing Brissett's strengths, 

I agree with this.  The only thing he lost was potential.  I think Ballard and Reich seen that he hadn't improved on his flaws from college and 2017.    1 or 2 reads.   Slow release.  Anticipation issues.  These are all still a big part of his game which lowered his ceiling to the good backup level.  He can still improve and I hope he does and gets to start on a team again.  

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On 8/16/2020 at 10:06 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I like Fitz, I wonder how we do under a coach like BB? He would probably be more consistent.

A solid OL and good coach would likely do wonders for him.

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On 8/16/2020 at 11:22 PM, WoolMagnet said:

Whatever.

could you write That down on paper...... SOFT paper.  Then i could “use” it for something at least.

I didnt waste time reading.  All i said was i’m sick of the childish JB bashing.  Thats it.  I dont believe i singled you out... but ok.

You criticized someone for not giving detail, so I gave detail. Providing straight forward facts is not bashing, which is what I did.

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On 8/17/2020 at 12:13 AM, NewColtsFan said:


For the record...   At New England, Jacoby was 3 behind Garroppolo, not Stidham. 
 

JB has been with the Colts since September of 17.   Stidham wasn’t even drafted by NE until 2019.  

Good catch. 

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20 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

You pretty much covered everything there. The JB apologists were all over anyone who was critical of JB all season...so of course they are sick of the JB criticism...they were wrong and there's nothing left to say.

 

JB didn't have a great WR corps (do most QBs?)...but assuming he would have taken advantage even if he did is just a guess. He won't throw deep, doesn't have anticipation and stares down reads...so the passing offense is more limited because of him...and more weapons won't change that.

 

I will say...Reich holding back JB is one that I had not heard. I would argue that Reich is responsible for any success that JB had. He did a fantastic job scheming for JB early in the season...which (not coincidentally) were JB's best games. Of course scheming is always easier against very poor pass defenses (like HOU and ATL)...and before certain tendencies are identified on tape. Unfortunately, once teams adjusted to the short passing game...and with JB's refusal to throw deep...there was little Reich could do. So basically he just took the ball out of JB's hands...and played out the string. And it was not fun to watch.

Yup. Our passing game seemed like it was limited to the short to intermediate boundaries for the most part. Teams started ignoring both middle and deep. Not hard when a D only has to pay attention to 4 of 9 areas of the field.

 

I'm really looking forward to the balance once again, and being a threat in the seam and deep. I don't want Rivers tossing it deep all the time, just a few good and unexpected shots a game, and being able to do it when we need it. Opposing Ds will have a hell of a lot harder time this year game planning. I'm confident Hines will will do well in the passing game, but I hope Rivers also utilizes Mack and Taylor more than we used Mack last year. And I get a bit giddy thinking of the slots and TEs scorching the seam.  

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6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

You criticized someone for not giving detail, so I gave detail. Providing straight forward facts is not bashing, which is what I did.

I dont wanna argue with you .... i enjoy your posts.

However, i dont remember asking for details.  Your post tagged me and another dude.  Did you mean that person asked for details?  I only said i was tired of the constant JB BASHING (not from you, from anyone).

  And actually, while I really like JB as a person and value him on the team, i too thought we needed an upgrade at QB.

  But to say he is “trash” as some gave, or that he’ll never be a starter, is ridiculous imo.

  And the reason i didnt read the whole thing was not out of disrespect to you, but rather laziness on my part.  I tend to skip over long posts.  Haha.

  I will go back, at some point, and read it just out of respect for you.

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6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. Our passing game seemed like it was limited to the short to intermediate boundaries for the most part. Teams started ignoring both middle and deep. Not hard when a D only has to pay attention to 4 of 9 areas of the field.

Reich limited our passing game with Luck in 2018 as well.

We seemed to run an offense that was more safe and relied heavily (too heavy imo) on the running game at some points.  We never tried to put teams away, rather played a style that jept things close and tried to win at the end.  This put Vinny in a position to win or lose fames for us in the 4th quarter.  We all know how that worked last year.  We discussed this the last two years or so.  The offense wasnt “dummed down” for JB , rather revolved more around game management as i remember it.

  And no, this isnt a “JB apologist post”, just an observation.

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9 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Reich limited our passing game with Luck in 2018 as well.

We seemed to run an offense that was more safe and relied heavily (too heavy imo) on the running game at some points.  We never tried to put teams away, rather played a style that jept things close and tried to win at the end.  This put Vinny in a position to win or lose fames for us in the 4th quarter.  We all know how that worked last year.  We discussed this the last two years or so.  The offense wasnt “dummed down” for JB , rather revolved more around game management as i remember it.

  And no, this isnt a “JB apologist post”, just an observation.

I disagree with the majority of this. Luck threw for almost 40 times a game and was 5th in the league in yards. He spread the ball around very very well to a ton of different pass catchers, and play calling was pretty open in terms of routes. That's not limited. We threw it 644 times and ran the ball 408 times (61% passing), and Luck was #2 in pass attempts.

 

As far a being dumbed down, I disagree as well. Part of dumbing a game plan down for a QB is running it more. Last year we threw 513 times, and ran 471 times. Reich even said the playbook was limited, and talked about opening things up as the year went along. Having an O that revolves around game management is literally taking less risk in the passing game, and a form of dumbing down.

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15 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I disagree with the majority of this. Luck threw for almost 40 times a game and was 5th in the league in yards. He spread the ball around very very well to a ton of different pass catchers, and play calling was pretty open in terms of routes. That's not limited. We threw it 644 times and ran the ball 408 times (61% passing), and Luck was #2 in pass attempts.

 

As far a being dumbed down, I disagree as well. Part of dumbing a game plan down for a QB is running it more. Last year we threw 513 times, and ran 471 times. Reich even said the playbook was limited, and talked about opening things up as the year went along. Having an O that revolves around game management is literally taking less risk in the passing game, and a form of dumbing down.

Hmm.  I dont remember that.  But i do remember the “game management.”  Luck had better receiving options in ‘18, i do remember that.

I think i have the covid “brain fog.”

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8 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Hmm.  I dont remember that.  But i do remember the “game management.”  Luck had better receiving options in ‘18, i do remember that.

I think i have the covid “brain fog.”

Luck's WRs in 2018 were rag tag. His second leading WR was Rogers. He had musical chairs at X (Grant/Inman/Pascal). He only had Ebron at TE for the most part in 2018, as opposed to both Doyle and Ebron for most of 2019. Only Hilton eclipsed 500 yards as a WR. Still, Luck was top 5 in yards throwing to a ton of different folks. He threw 100+ yards to 11 different pass catchers over the year. Both had Hines, but Luck was the only one that threw to him.

 

Not sure how you can say #2 in pass attempts and top 5 in yards is anywhere close to game management.

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1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

Reich limited our passing game with Luck in 2018 as well.

We seemed to run an offense that was more safe and relied heavily (too heavy imo) on the running game at some points.  We never tried to put teams away, rather played a style that jept things close and tried to win at the end.  This put Vinny in a position to win or lose fames for us in the 4th quarter.  We all know how that worked last year.  We discussed this the last two years or so.  The offense wasnt “dummed down” for JB , rather revolved more around game management as i remember it.

  And no, this isnt a “JB apologist post”, just an observation.

Aw cmon, the offense was 'dummied down" for JB...no doubt about it.

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28 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

As it would be for any QB starting his 1st year.

He wasn't a rook, and started in 2017.

2019 was his first year starting in a Reich O, just like it was Luck's 1st year in a Reich O in 2018. 

One could say JB had two years to digest the Reich O, were as Luck was brand new, not to mention coming off a missed year and rusty.

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6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

He wasn't a rook, and started in 2017.

2019 was his first year starting in a Reich O, just like it was Luck's 1st year in a Reich O in 2018. 

One could say JB had two years to digest the Reich O, were as Luck was brand new, not to mention coming off a missed year and rusty.

Whatever.  At least JB didn’t quit.

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9 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Whatever.  At least JB didn’t quit.

Come on man.....

First you say they didn't dumb things down for JB. Then you said they did because he was a 1st year player. Now your deflecting with a jab at Luck for quitting lol. I'm not happy with Luck either, but him quitting has zero relevance here. I do agree that Brissett has more heart than Luck, but that's not the issue.

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2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Come on man.....

First you say they didn't dumb things down for JB. Then you said they did because he was a 1st year player. Now your deflecting with a jab at Luck for quitting lol. I'm not happy with Luck either, but him quitting has zero relevance here. I do agree that Brissett has more heart than Luck, but that's not the issue.

I NEVER said they didnt dumb things down for JB.  I said Frank went more run-oriented which kept games closer.  And i dont see JB as the type of QB (like Luck and Peyton) who could, at times, take over a game.  Heck,  Big Q and others were wanting more running, and with that OL, it made some sense, but limited our capabilities to score.  Was it in part for JB?  Probably?  Maybe?  But it was what the coaching staff obviously wanted.  Even in ‘18 Luck, i felt Frank played a little safe.  Then the next week he’d be aggressive on 4th downs.  I think Frank was “finding his lane” as a coach as well.

  For some reason it is either JB is a star or a bust.  He is neither.  But i just dont think his full story is written..... obviously.  No, i dont think he lived up to what we “expected”.  But i could say the same of Luck and Peyton. (Not putting JB in their class,) But let the guy start a few seasons (not here necessarily) before we label him. 
  Guys like Parcells, Belichek, Reich, and Ballard see potential in the guy.  And, like it or not, i’ll take their word over ANY of us wanna-be GMs here on this board.

  Is JB a top 10 QB in the league?  No.  Will he ever be?  Probably not.  But he definitely has the tools and potential to be a Serviceable starter imo, if he ever gets more game snaps.  My opinion, sure, but unless someone can see the future,  I’ll give the guy the benefit of the doubt, just like some pretty influential coaches in this league have.

 

Lets not make light of JB following 2 1st overall picks.  I think we all expected too much.  We had 2 decades really of HOF caliber QB play.  Theres no way JB was gonna live up to that, especially the way things played out.

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53 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

I NEVER said they didnt dumb things down for JB.  I said Frank went more run-oriented which kept games closer.

Here's what you posted.

Quote

 The offense wasnt “dummed down” for JB , rather revolved more around game management as i remember it.

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Here's what you posted.

 

 

 

Well good for you.  
i’m sure your mama is proud if that one.

i’m gonna call Irsay and recommend you for Gm since you seem to always be right.

.   Whatever dude.  I’ll stick with my opinion tho.  I still dont think they dummed anything down.  No more than any new QB would require.

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11 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:


  Guys like Parcells, Belichek, Reich, and Ballard see potential in the guy.  And, like it or not, i’ll take their word over ANY of us wanna-be GMs here on this board.

 

Belichek traded him away.   Ballard brought in a 38 year old QB and drafted another.  

So I think "their word" is that he is not good starter material.  

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On 8/17/2020 at 9:37 AM, WifiGuy said:

I really don't get the hate for JB on this forum.  Especially as the backup QB.  He is arguably the best backup in the NFL.   

 

Why would any team NOT want the best backup player at a position?    Wouldn't you all like to have the best backup RB in the NFL?  The best LT? the best OC?   

 

Is it because of the money?   That's stupid if so,   it hasn't hurt the team and its not your money to spend. 

 

JB gives us the best chance to continue  winning if PR goes down.

 

Yea last yr was rough, but it was rough for the whole team,  Too many injuries.

 

Do I want him to be a starter for the Colts?  No not at this time,   BUT he's the freaking backup!!!! And I'll take that any day!!!!

 

 


I haven’t seen anybody hating on JB.  And I agree that he’s one of the best backups in the league.  But he’s not a permanent solution as a starter and he’s too big a paycheck right now for backup...although having him may end up being a blessing this season.  Not only do we have COVID to tangle with, we also have a starter who’s closing in on 40.

 

And I’d certainly feel more confident with him under center than Eason or Kelly.

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On 8/19/2020 at 8:11 AM, Myles said:

Belichek traded him away. 

Because he had Garoppolo and Brady and needed WR help

 

Quote

 

 Ballard brought in a 38 year old QB and drafted another.  

So I think "their word" is that he is not good starter material.  

brissett definitively proved that he is starter material.  What he isn't, is a guy who will carry a team into the playoffs.  Something Rivers HAS done in the past.

 

Bringing in Rivers doesn't mean Brissett sucks.  Because Brissett doesn't suck.  He took a flawed team with talent but some serious holes, that a lot of people were predcting 6-10 or worse, and broke even with them during his starts.  The team played above its preseason predictions in the wake of Luck's retirement and Brissett had something to do with that. 

 

Brissett gets more criticism than he deserves because the season ended on a sour note and the team fell out of playoff contention.  Nevermind that his play had a lot to do with why a team that suddenly lost its star QB just before Week 1 was ever in the playoff hunt to begin with.  The success we had with Brissett is why Irsay and ballard think an upgrade at QB would put us over the top.  Frankly, given where a lot of fans were before week 1, the overall result of last year is a credit to Brissett.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Because he had Garoppolo and Brady and needed WR help

 

brissett definitively proved that he is starter material.  What he isn't, is a guy who will carry a team into the playoffs.  Something Rivers HAS done in the past.

 

Bringing in Rivers doesn't mean Brissett sucks.  The fact that Ballard upgraded means only that he or Irsay feel they need elite QB to get their team over the hump and back into playoff contention. 

 

Nothing here implies anything other than that Brissett is a decent starter.  they just wanted more than a decent starter given the state of the team at the moment.

I disagree.  So far 2 teams passed on JB as a stArter.  He'll get Nother chAnce to compete for the stArter spot, but it may never happen.  He is in the grey area.  Good back up, below average stArter.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If JB was in Washington he would be the starter. Smith's leg injury takes him out of the convo and JB is better than Haskins or Allen. So JB could start for other teams, that is just one.

I wouldn’t bet that JB is better than Haskins.  Wasn’t he a rookie last year?   Why shouldn’t he get better?    JB may be better, but I don’t think it’s a lock by any means. 

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24 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I wouldn’t bet that JB is better than Haskins.  Wasn’t he a rookie last year?   Why shouldn’t he get better?    JB may be better, but I don’t think it’s a lock by any means. 

Yeah Haskins was a rook last year but as of now JB is better IMO, I guess it could be a battle.

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