The key to 2020 success

[danlhart87]

The Colts have had several games where they fall behind early and have to play catch up by going away from the running game. 

 

This year play stout D and stop players at the line of scrimmage and get the early lead and let Mack and Taylor shred the clock.

[danlhart87]

sorry it posted by accident had to edit 

[Yoshinator]

22 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

The Colts have had several games where they fall behind early and have to play catch up by going away from the running game. 

 

This year play stout D and stop players at the line of scrimmage and get the early lead and let Mack and Taylor shred the clock.

Yep, run the ball and control the clock on offense while stopping the run and pressuring the QB on defense.

 

Buckner is going to be a major part of the latter and should provide some relief for the secondary. I can't wait to see Mack and Taylor get 10-15 carries a game each while Hines picks up catching duties. If this running attack is used and coached properly, watch out!

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yep, run the ball and control the clock on offense while stopping the run and pressuring the QB on defense.

 

Buckner is going to be a major part of the latter and should provide some relief for the secondary. I can't wait to see Mack and Taylor get 10-15 carries a game each while Hines picks up catching duties. If this running attack is used and coached properly, watch out!

If we can get early leads it should be pretty much over because at that point we can run and wear teams down battering them with our O.Line and RB's. 

[NannyMcafee]

Man, its been too long since the Colts played on all cylinders (2005?). Let's do it! 2020! 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

Man, its been too long since the Colts played on all cylinders (2005?). Let's do it! 2020! 

Yeah from 2005-2007 seasons we played every game all out. That 3 year record was 39-9 and playoff record was 4-2 with a SB win. We should've 3-peated in that time frame.

[Yoshinator]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If we can get early leads it should be pretty much over because at that point we can run and wear teams down battering them with our O.Line and RB's. 

We'll be able to do that to bad and mediocre teams 100%. With good teams we'll have to slowly wear them down with the run throughout the game and outscore them over time. Maybe a 7 point lead at the half and keep up the pressure to control the clock, pass when necessary, and win by 10-14 at the end.

 

The best way for this team to win is player balance. 15 carries with Mack and Taylor a game to keep them fresh. Hopefully Rivers doesn't have to pass the ball more than 30-35 times a game. Play good defense, get the receivers and TEs involved, and you have a good and happy team that can win most weeks and challenge for the SB.  

[NannyMcafee]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah from 2005-2007 seasons we played every game all out. That 3 year record was 39-9 and playoff record was 4-2 with a SB win. We should've 3-peated in that time frame.

 

Dont tell me what we should have done! Lol.... i already know... *sobs*

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We'll be able to do that to bad and mediocre teams 100%. With good teams we'll have to slowly wear them down with the run throughout the game and outscore them over time. Maybe a 7 point lead at the half and keep up the pressure to control the clock, pass when necessary, and win by 10-14 at the end.

 

The best way for this team to win is player balance. 15 carries with Mack and Taylor a game to keep them fresh. Hopefully Rivers doesn't have to pass the ball more than 30-35 times a game. Play good defense, get the receivers and TEs involved, and you have a good and happy team that can win most weeks and challenge for the SB.  

Mack is good so we know what we got there, he isn't great or anything but has speed and is in the good category. Taylor looks like a beast but until we see him in the NFL the jury is still out. I think he will be good at worse. For the life of me I can't see Taylor being like Trent. Our O.Line is GREAT so that helps.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Mack is good so we know what we got there, he isn't great or anything but has speed and is in the good category. Taylor looks like a beast but until we see him in the NFL the jury is still out. I think he will be good at worse. For the life of me I can't see Taylor being like Trent. Our O.Line is GREAT so that helps.

I think Mack is above-average, his problem is he's kinda injury-prone. If he stays healthy, I trust him. That's a big IF though. Love Taylor. IMO, the best RB in this year's draft class. He would be a first rounder in other classes and if the rb position wasn't devalued. He should be as good as Mack at least, if not better. Definitely higher potential and ceiling. The O-Line is going to open up gaping holes for these guys. Going to be glorious to watch if they both stay healthy.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Dont tell me what we should have done! Lol.... i already know... *sobs*

I hear ya, I am still happy with the run we had. I just wish we would've finish the decade by beating the Saints in the SB. We won 1 so it justifies all of our other wins. It is better to be compared to the 90's Braves than the 90's Bills or Jazz. We won the big one 

[NannyMcafee]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I hear ya, I am still happy with the run we had. I just wish we would've finish the decade by beating the Saints in the SB. We won 1 so it justifies all of our other wins. It is better to be compared to the 90's Braves than the 90's Bills or Jazz. We won the big one 

 

It could have been worse, obviously. Its just hard not thinking that with a one of a kind like peyton we should have had multiples. Its ok. I will take the one. It was the best feeling ever! 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I hear ya, I am still happy with the run we had. I just wish we would've finish the decade by beating the Saints in the SB. We won 1 so it justifies all of our other wins. It is better to be compared to the 90's Braves than the 90's Bills or Jazz. We won the big one 

Oddly enough, I'm a braves fan as well in baseball, so I know how that feels two-fold! Been very frustrating the last 19 years losing in the playoffs.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

It could have been worse, obviously. Its just hard not thinking that with a one of a kind like peyton we should have had multiples. Its ok. I will take the one. It was the best feeling ever! 

Yeah I think like that too, then I think what Dolphins fans think when they had freakin Dan Marino and won 0. That makes me feel ok  

[2006Coltsbestever]

I know off topic but imagine having a QB like Dan Marino for 17 years and win 0 SB's. Marino is a top 10 QB of all-time by any measure. Like Jim Kelly (who IMO is top 20 of all-time) with the Bills 4 straight SB's but no wins. Barry Sanders with the Lions too, just a waste of the best talents we have seen. Peyton at least got us to the promise land once. So yeah it could be worse.

 

Brady won a lot of SB's but he had the best coach ever which gave him an advantage. He will do well in Tampa but they aren't winning no SB. I see playoffs for them but no SB.

 

Back on topic - Rivers should throw early, get us a lead and let the O.Line devastate teams in the 2nd half.

[NannyMcafee]

48 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I think like that too, then I think what Dolphins fans think when they had freakin Dan Marino and won 0. That makes me feel ok  

 

Thats a wound too big to heal...

 

Youre right! 

[EastStreet]

I think some folks are underestimating our passing game. We should be aiming for good balance, at least for the first 3 quarters. Top 5 OL, a QB that can read the entire field and can get the ball out quickly, new weapons in the passing game, two great RBs, etc, etc.... Every team/game will be a bit different, but we should be able to mix it up very well, and keep Ds guessing and defending the entire field. 

 

 

[stitches]

I'm going to be boring and very predictable but the reality is our success this year depends on how well our passing offense functions and in particular how well Rivers plays. He doesn't need to throw for 4000 yards but he does need to be efficient, to have some situational big plays and he needs to make the defense at least defend the intermediate to long passing game, thus opening up opportunities for the run game with less stacked boxes.

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

I'm going to be boring and very predictable but the reality is our success this year depends on how well our passing offense functions and in particular how well Rivers plays. He doesn't need to throw for 4000 yards but he does need to be efficient, to have some situational big plays and he needs to make the defense at least defend the intermediate to long passing game, thus opening up opportunities for the run game with less stacked boxes.

Yup. Last year, our lack of passing O put an immense amount of pressure on the D, OL, and running game. Especially later in the year. If Rivers can execute, the whole machine will work better. Balance is a beautiful thing.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

49 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. Last year, our lack of passing O put an immense amount of pressure on the D, OL, and running game. Especially later in the year. If Rivers can execute, the whole machine will work better. Balance is a beautiful thing.  

I can actually see Rivers throwing for around 4000 yards although I think we will run a lot too. Rivers will provide more of a balance on offense than what JB did.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Last season we passed for 3108 yards and ran for 2130 yards. This season I can see the same rushing wise = around 2100 but passing yardage should be up to around 3800 at least with Rivers. That will give us a pretty tough offense to stop.

[NannyMcafee]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Last season we passed for 3108 yards and ran for 2130 yards. This season I can see the same rushing wise = around 2100 but passing yardage should be up to around 3800 at least with Rivers. That will give us a pretty tough offense to stop.

 

And one of the best kickers coming out of college. 

[EastStreet]

33 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I can actually see Rivers throwing for around 4000 yards although I think we will run a lot too. Rivers will provide more of a balance on offense than what JB did.

I think we can have a top 5ish O, with both a top 10ish running and passing game. I really don't care about setting the world on fire passing, or running... but I want to be able to exploit whatever weakness the opposing team's D has, be it running or passing. We've got 2 great backs, and we have some very nice pass catchers. 

 

Is it week 1 yet?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

I think we can have a top 5ish O, with both a top 10ish running and passing game. I really don't care about setting the world on fire passing, or running... but I want to be able to exploit whatever weakness the opposing team's D has, be it running or passing. We've got 2 great backs, and we have some very nice pass catchers. 

 

Is it week 1 yet?

I agree, balance is the key. I wish week 1 was here and they officially announce we are playing.

[AZColt11]

Old time hock.......er, football!

[Imgrandojji]

Ehh, I expect our clock management to take a big step backwards assuming Rivers starts for 16 games.  Brissett is a possession guy, but Rivers is a gunslinger which means that even if he's doing everything he's supposed to we'll still be advancing the ball much quicker and reducing our own time of possession.  That is the primary flaw of that Rivers/Bledsoe/Favre type of QB.

 

Also yeah, with Phillip Rivers at QB, we aren't running as much as last year.  A guy like Brissett you can talk into playing your game, but a name brand like Rivers, you get a guy like that you're playing his offense if you don't want to get into a huge ego battle. 

 

Rivers is going to want to throw and he's not gonna be as nice about it as Brissett was because he's much more of a diva than Brisset could ever possibly become.  If he's given any chance at all to audible, we're going to be throwing at least 2/3 of the time and if Reich  tries to force him to do it "his" way Rivers will demand a trade.  That's just how it goes with a guy who's already made his money and doesn't have to put up with nonsense from the coaching staff anymore.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

14 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Ehh, I expect our clock management to take a big step backwards assuming Rivers starts for 16 games.  Brissett is a possession guy, but Rivers is a gunslinger which means that even if he's doing everything he's supposed to we'll still be advancing the ball much quicker and reducing our own time of possession.  That is the primary flaw of that Rivers/Bledsoe/Favre type of QB.

 

Also yeah, with Phillip Rivers at QB, we aren't running as much as last year.  A guy like Brissett you can talk into playing your game, but a name brand like Rivers, you get a guy like that you're playing his offense if you don't want to get into a huge ego battle. 

 

Rivers is going to want to throw and he's not gonna be as nice about it as Brissett was because he's much more of a diva than Brisset could ever possibly become.  If he's given any chance at all to audible, we're going to be throwing at least 2/3 of the time and if Reich  tries to force him to do it "his" way Rivers will demand a trade.  That's just how it goes with a guy who's already made his money and doesn't have to put up with nonsense from the coaching staff anymore.

I’m gonna have to disagree. I think Rivers is at a point in his career where he just wants to win.

I don’t think he’s gonna be throwing any tantrums about stats. He’s already got stats that put him in the HoF discussion, the only thing missing on his resume is a .

 

No way he demands a trade, Indy is probably the best situation he could have asked for, and his best chance at a SB. Just run the ball, play defense, and get the dub.

[Imgrandojji]

52 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

I’m gonna have to disagree. I think Rivers is at a point in his career where he just wants to win.

I don’t think he’s gonna be throwing any tantrums about stats. He’s already got stats that put him in the HoF discussion, the only thing missing on his resume is a .

 

No way he demands a trade, Indy is probably the best situation he could have asked for, and his best chance at a SB. Just run the ball, play defense, and get the dub.

with a gunslinger type QB, "wants to win" and "wants to throw" are basically the same thing.  

 

It's just something you have to accept when working with that type of QB.  It's in their blood, it's the way they think.  It's the thing they make a career of being the best they can be at doing.  To get the most out of gunslingers they need need the latitude to do their thing, and their thing is throwing footballs  Because they honestly think that that IS the best way to help the team win.. 

 

Rivers is convinced that the best way to help his team win is nearly always going to be to put the ball in the air for the chance of a big gain.  If he didn't honestly believe that with all his heart he'd probably be retired right now.  So yes, I expect him to be anxious to make the air game work, and I think Reich has the choice between working with Rivers on that point, or having a frank disagreement on best tactics with his starting QB and everything that goes with it.

 

I also think that Reich knows this and if he isn't already fully prepared to modify his tactics to support the type of QB Ballard gives him, then he's less of a head coach than I personally think he is.  A coach who can't take two different offensive packages and come up with the best offensive scheme for each of them is a one trick pony and guys like that don't last long in the NFL.  We will see changes based on who's under center.

 

We've got a different QB from last year, and we're probably going to see a different offense with a lot more big-drive plays, because that's what Rivers has made a career of doing and he's way too old of a dog to learn too many new tricks at this point.  The consequence of that is lowered TOP.  Be ready for it, because it's going to happen.

 

If they really are going to try to be a more grindy team like last year before the injuries piled up, I have absolutely no idea what the holy flaming buttery heck Rivers is doing here, because he is the antithesis of a grinding QB and trying to play that style with Rivers under center would be playing straight into Rivers' weaknesses as a quarterback. I can't see Reich being that stupid.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Imgrandojji said:

Ehh, I expect our clock management to take a big step backwards assuming Rivers starts for 16 games.  Brissett is a possession guy, but Rivers is a gunslinger which means that even if he's doing everything he's supposed to we'll still be advancing the ball much quicker and reducing our own time of possession.  That is the primary flaw of that Rivers/Bledsoe/Favre type of QB.

 

Also yeah, with Phillip Rivers at QB, we aren't running as much as last year.  A guy like Brissett you can talk into playing your game, but a name brand like Rivers, you get a guy like that you're playing his offense if you don't want to get into a huge ego battle. 

 

Rivers is going to want to throw and he's not gonna be as nice about it as Brissett was because he's much more of a diva than Brisset could ever possibly become.  If he's given any chance at all to audible, we're going to be throwing at least 2/3 of the time and if Reich  tries to force him to do it "his" way Rivers will demand a trade.  That's just how it goes with a guy who's already made his money and doesn't have to put up with nonsense from the coaching staff anymore.

Honestly... 

 

I think you’re 100% wrong from the first word to the last word and every word in between.  I have no idea where you got these thoughts,  so I’m completely stunned.    I don’t think you know Rivers, or football, or people, or Ballard or Reich.   Other than all that, you’re spot on...

 

I don’t recall you ever making a post like this before, but we all post a whopper every once in a while — me included.   But this one is yours.   Wowza!  
 

Good luck! 
 

[Imgrandojji]

52 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Honestly... 

 

I think you’re 100% wrong from the first word to the last word and every word in between.  I have no idea where you got these thoughts,  so I’m completely stunned.    I don’t think you know Rivers, or football, or people, or Ballard or Reich.   Other than all that, you’re spot on...

 

I don’t recall you ever making a post like this before, but we all post a whopper every once in a while — me included.   But this one is yours.   Wowza!  
 

Good luck! 
 

I'm not throwing shade at Rivers, but it's what you get when you get a name brand guy who's a gunslinger.  I mentioned successful gunslingers like Bledsoe and Favre as comps because Rivers fits that mold. 

 

Rivers' greatest stength is as a thrower.  It's the thing he does that has kept him playing  in the NFL as long as he has.  I don't think you'll be getting the most you can get out of Rivers if you stubbornly refuse to play to his strengths, and sooner or later a guy who's paid his dues like Rivers is gonna get irritable if you try to make him play to his weaknesses.

 

This is the reason I didn't want to sign Rivers.  He's not a bad QB and as gunslingers go he's one of the best of his generation, but if there's an active NFL QB whose playing style was the exact antithesis of the culture Reich spent the last year developing, it's probably Rivers.  His entire history is of a guy who wants to throw and is very, very good at it.  You'd have a hard job convincing me he's going to change literally everything about his game in order to be shoehorned into a Reich style offense that not only doesn't play to his strengths but actively plays against them. 

 

This isn't some rookie or marginal QB desperate for his chance to shine, this is a guy who's paid his dues and is going to be expecting to have some input on how the offense is run, just like any other longtime veteran QB,  Reich could do what he wanted with Brissett because Brissett didn't really have any leverage and is a team player anyway.  Rivers is a different cat, he's got a reason to be confident in his own ability and a significant pool of his own experience and knowledge of the game.  He is less likely to mold his game to his coach's exact specifications, and it would be demeaning one of Rivers' greatest assets -- his decade and a half of NFL experience -- to even expect that of him.

 

With a guy like Brissett coach-QB relationship was mostly top down, with Reich calling most of the shots, because Brissett is still paying his dues.  But you don't do that with a veteran QB with many years experience.  The coach QB relationship this year is going to be a collaboration between Reich, Rivers and the OC.  Otherwise there will be friction because Rivers has earned the right to not be dictated to or micromanaged like Brissett often was.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

@Imgrandojji I think you’re making a lot of assumptions about Rivers and Reich when I’m assuming you know neither of them personally.  Nor what was going on behind the scenes between coaches and QBs in the past or what will in the future.

 

And some of Rivers most successful teams were early in his career when he was playing Marty-ball handing it to LT and relying on a great defense. Not being a gunslinger.

[Imgrandojji]

Bottom line:  If you think we're going to be as much of a grinding team as last year, given the personnel we have right now, you've got another think coming.  Last year the run set up the pass.  With a much better thrower under center, I very much believe the pass will set up the run.

 

Mack will get less carries, Rivers will get more throwing attempts than Brissett did.   This is an inevitable regression to the mean anyway because last year with Brissett I believe the Colts had among the lowest pass% of any team in the NFL, and now we've got a guy with a good arm behind a strong offensive line.   It would be stupid NOT to throw more than we did last year.

 

One of the reasons we were among the top rushing attacks last year, besides having a good 1-2 punch at RB, is that we had a lot of games with under 30 pass attempts.  They're not gonna play the same way with Rivers because to put it quite bluntly, it would be stupid to do so. That, and we have reason to trust Rivers' arm more than Brissett's anyway, he's stronger and more accurate across the board so yeah, passing's going up, the only question is how far.

[danlhart87]

8 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Bottom line:  If you think we're going to be as much of a grinding team as last year, given the personnel we have right now, you've got another think coming.  Last year the run set up the pass.  With a much better thrower under center, I very much believe the pass will set up the run.

 

Mack will get less carries, Rivers will get more throwing attempts than Brissett did.   This is an inevitable regression to the mean anyway because last year with Brissett I believe the Colts had among the lowest pass% of any team in the NFL, and now we've got a guy with a good arm behind a strong offensive line.   It would be stupid NOT to throw more than we did last year.

 

One of the reasons we were among the top rushing attacks last year, besides having a good 1-2 punch at RB, is that we had a lot of games with under 30 pass attempts.  They're not gonna play the same way with Rivers because to put it quite bluntly, it would be stupid to do so. That, and we have reason to trust Rivers' arm more than Brissett's anyway, he's stronger and more accurate across the board so yeah, passing's going up, the only question is how far.

Rivers can pass all he wants in the 1st half.

If we go into the 2nd half with decent lead let Mack and Taylor do the rest.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

19 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

It would be stupid NOT to throw more than we did last year.

 

It all depends on how the opponents play us on defense.

 

Rivers is a savvy vet.  If they come out with an 8-man box, he will audible to a pass and attack downfield.  But if he sees two deep safeties, he'll go with the run play.  We're not gonna throw the ball just because we want to.

 

I think you're overthinking all of this gunslinger-mentality, Reich-style offense, HC-QB relationship stuff.  It's about winning the game by taking what the defense gives you, whether you run the damn ball and play defense like we did against the Chiefs last year, or throw all over the yard like we did against Houston last year.  That's Reichs offensive approach, and I think Rivers and Brissett have both bought into that.

[NewColtsFan]

15 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

I'm not throwing shade at Rivers, but it's what you get when you get a name brand guy who's a gunslinger.  I mentioned successful gunslingers like Bledsoe and Favre as comps because Rivers fits that mold. 

 

Rivers' greatest stength is as a thrower.  It's the thing he does that has kept him playing  in the NFL as long as he has.  I don't think you'll be getting the most you can get out of Rivers if you stubbornly refuse to play to his strengths, and sooner or later a guy who's paid his dues like Rivers is gonna get irritable if you try to make him play to his weaknesses.

 

This is the reason I didn't want to sign Rivers.  He's not a bad QB and as gunslingers go he's one of the best of his generation, but if there's an active NFL QB whose playing style was the exact antithesis of the culture Reich spent the last year developing, it's probably Rivers.  His entire history is of a guy who wants to throw and is very, very good at it.  You'd have a hard job convincing me he's going to change literally everything about his game in order to be shoehorned into a Reich style offense that not only doesn't play to his strengths but actively plays against them. 

 

This isn't some rookie or marginal QB desperate for his chance to shine, this is a guy who's paid his dues and is going to be expecting to have some input on how the offense is run, just like any other longtime veteran QB,  Reich could do what he wanted with Brissett because Brissett didn't really have any leverage and is a team player anyway.  Rivers is a different cat, he's got a reason to be confident in his own ability and a significant pool of his own experience and knowledge of the game.  He is less likely to mold his game to his coach's exact specifications, and it would be demeaning one of Rivers' greatest assets -- his decade and a half of NFL experience -- to even expect that of him.

 

With a guy like Brissett coach-QB relationship was mostly top down, with Reich calling most of the shots, because Brissett is still paying his dues.  But you don't do that with a veteran QB with many years experience.  The coach QB relationship this year is going to be a collaboration between Reich, Rivers and the OC.  Otherwise there will be friction because Rivers has earned the right to not be dictated to or micromanaged like Brissett often was.

You don’t think any of this was talked about before Rivers signed with the team?   You don’t think Ballard talked about his vision?   You don’t think Reich talked about his vision?

 

I think you’re 100% wrong on Rivers.  Literally.   I don’t find anything to agree with in this post either.   Sorry.

[hoosierhawk]

17 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Bottom line:  If you think we're going to be as much of a grinding team as last year, given the personnel we have right now, you've got another think coming.  Last year the run set up the pass.  With a much better thrower under center, I very much believe the pass will set up the run.

 

Mack will get less carries, Rivers will get more throwing attempts than Brissett did.   This is an inevitable regression to the mean anyway because last year with Brissett I believe the Colts had among the lowest pass% of any team in the NFL, and now we've got a guy with a good arm behind a strong offensive line.   It would be stupid NOT to throw more than we did last year.

 

One of the reasons we were among the top rushing attacks last year, besides having a good 1-2 punch at RB, is that we had a lot of games with under 30 pass attempts.  They're not gonna play the same way with Rivers because to put it quite bluntly, it would be stupid to do so. That, and we have reason to trust Rivers' arm more than Brissett's anyway, he's stronger and more accurate across the board so yeah, passing's going up, the only question is how far.

We were a grinding team last year because we had to be. No team was at all threatened by JB because they knew he wasn't going to throw deep and he wasn't consistently able to spot wide open receivers. With Rivers we will be much better balanced team and with Rivers I think it will open up our running game more because the opposition this year has to worry about our passing game.

I believe our running game will surpass last year and for damn sure our passing game will surpass last year.

[crazycolt1]

17 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

I'm not throwing shade at Rivers, but it's what you get when you get a name brand guy who's a gunslinger.  I mentioned successful gunslingers like Bledsoe and Favre as comps because Rivers fits that mold. 

 

Rivers' greatest stength is as a thrower.  It's the thing he does that has kept him playing  in the NFL as long as he has.  I don't think you'll be getting the most you can get out of Rivers if you stubbornly refuse to play to his strengths, and sooner or later a guy who's paid his dues like Rivers is gonna get irritable if you try to make him play to his weaknesses.

 

This is the reason I didn't want to sign Rivers.  He's not a bad QB and as gunslingers go he's one of the best of his generation, but if there's an active NFL QB whose playing style was the exact antithesis of the culture Reich spent the last year developing, it's probably Rivers.  His entire history is of a guy who wants to throw and is very, very good at it.  You'd have a hard job convincing me he's going to change literally everything about his game in order to be shoehorned into a Reich style offense that not only doesn't play to his strengths but actively plays against them. 

 

This isn't some rookie or marginal QB desperate for his chance to shine, this is a guy who's paid his dues and is going to be expecting to have some input on how the offense is run, just like any other longtime veteran QB,  Reich could do what he wanted with Brissett because Brissett didn't really have any leverage and is a team player anyway.  Rivers is a different cat, he's got a reason to be confident in his own ability and a significant pool of his own experience and knowledge of the game.  He is less likely to mold his game to his coach's exact specifications, and it would be demeaning one of Rivers' greatest assets -- his decade and a half of NFL experience -- to even expect that of him.

 

With a guy like Brissett coach-QB relationship was mostly top down, with Reich calling most of the shots, because Brissett is still paying his dues.  But you don't do that with a veteran QB with many years experience.  The coach QB relationship this year is going to be a collaboration between Reich, Rivers and the OC.  Otherwise there will be friction because Rivers has earned the right to not be dictated to or micromanaged like Brissett often was.

I think Rivers being a seasoned vet he will conform to Frank's style of play. He knows this is his last chance and I think he is smart enough to know not to have that gunslinger mentality. 

Part of the reason he has had that gunslinger mentality you speak is from not having a complete team around him. The Chargers won and lost on the arm of Rivers. 

When Rivers had LT on the team he didn't throw near as much. His best receiver in his history was a TE in Gates. 

IMO he is not as much a gunslinger as you make him out to be. 

[Imgrandojji]

40 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think Rivers being a seasoned vet he will conform to Frank's style of play. He knows this is his last chance and I think he is smart enough to know not to have that gunslinger mentality. 

Part of the reason he has had that gunslinger mentality you speak is from not having a complete team around him. The Chargers won and lost on the arm of Rivers. 

When Rivers had LT on the team he didn't throw near as much. His best receiver in his history was a TE in Gates. 

IMO he is not as much a gunslinger as you make him out to be. 

Like I said, it'll be a collaboration, but that does mean that Reich will move his goalposts too. 

 

With a better thrower under center he'd be dumb NOT to throw more.  So yes, rationalizations and sophistry aside, what I originally said is true.  if Rivers starts 16 games well see maybe as much as 10 more pass attempts a game with Rivers than we did with Brissett under center.  Mainly because under Brissett we were bottom 5 in pass attempts so a certain normalization is to be expected anyway.  Reich really picked his spots carefully to throw with Brissett as his QB.

 

 The dominance of the run game last year is a bit of a chicken and egg question, it stepped up in the second half because it became obvious that we couldn't count on the passing attack.  We hopefully won't have that problem this year, so the passing game will get more emphasis as a simple regression to mean.

 

it's great that Mack was up to such a significant role in the rushing attack but I wouldn't want to count on that because that's a great way to break a RB.  Running backs wear out very quickly if you abuse them.  That's another reason I expect the air game to be emphasized, especially with a good OL that should, in theory, give Rivers a better chance to see his targets than he had in that last year with the Chargers.

 

But at the end of the day, yes, you are going to see more downfield throws because it's a weapon in Rivers' arsenal in a way that it wasn't with Brissett.  And yes, that does mean that time of possession is going to suffer as a result.  Ideally that'll mean we get more offensive scoring chances due to being able to keep the defense guessing since we have valid weapons for both the air and the ground game.  Under Brissett the pressure was to limit the number of drives so that the 1-2 drives where Brissett was able to create scoring chances would be difference makers.  This year we'll be more aggressive, because we have the weapons to be more aggressive.

 

The question is, can we manage the clock and still generate scoring chances and control the opponent defensively in a situation where we're going to have a greater number of total drives.  We've got the weapons to do it, I guess we'll see

[Imgrandojji]

bottom line -- having a better air game means quicker drives and shorter time of possession per drive.  It's the tradeoff you sign up for when you bring in a guy with a bigtime arm.  That's going to put more pressure on the D who are going to have to stand up to more possessions by the opposing offense because our drives won't last as long with a guy who can take 10-25 yard chunks off the field in individual plays. 

 

One of the reason Brissett had among the lowest passing attempts per game is because we dragged out our drives and burned 4-5 minutes at a time on successful drives.  Rivers is going to break off some big gainers that shorten that, leading to more total possessions for both teams and much less time for the offense on the field in any given drive.  That's also gonna ask the D to stand up to more offensive possessions by the opposing team.  It's just the nature of the style of football he plays.  It's why a more offensive driven style isn't always necessarily better than a style focused on possession. 

 

Ideally we incorporate what Rivers can do into a game plan that still preserves that possession style, and it's nice to know that we can do that in low scoring games when the opposing D is keeping Rivers off the board.  But we're  going to see less of a pure possession offense and more of a hybrid style, which means you have to accept that tradeoff and figure out how to use it to your best advantage.

 

On the positive side of the tradeoff, that does also mean less wear and tear on Mack and the other RBs because they won't be running into the teeth of a prepared defense quite as often, so there's that to look forward to.  If the defense has to be aware of Rivers, Mack could go off this year and stay fresher and healthier much deeper into the season.  That would be fun to watch.

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Like I said, it'll be a collaboration, but that does mean that Reich will move his goalposts too. 

 

With a better thrower under center he'd be dumb NOT to throw more.  So yes, rationalizations and sophistry aside, what I originally said is true.  if Rivers starts 16 games well see maybe as much as 10 more pass attempts a game with Rivers than we did with Brissett under center.  Mainly because under Brissett we were bottom 5 in pass attempts so a certain normalization is to be expected anyway.  Reich really picked his spots carefully to throw with Brissett as his QB.

 

 The dominance of the run game last year is a bit of a chicken and egg question, it stepped up in the second half because it became obvious that we couldn't count on the passing attack.  We hopefully won't have that problem this year, so the passing game will get more emphasis as a simple regression to mean.

 

it's great that Mack was up to such a significant role in the rushing attack but I wouldn't want to count on that because that's a great way to break a RB.  Running backs wear out very quickly if you abuse them.  That's another reason I expect the air game to be emphasized, especially with a good OL that should, in theory, give Rivers a better chance to see his targets than he had in that last year with the Chargers.

 

But at the end of the day, yes, you are going to see more downfield throws because it's a weapon in Rivers' arsenal in a way that it wasn't with Brissett.  And yes, that does mean that time of possession is going to suffer as a result.  Ideally that'll mean we get more offensive scoring chances due to being able to keep the defense guessing since we have valid weapons for both the air and the ground game.  Under Brissett the pressure was to limit the number of drives so that the 1-2 drives where Brissett was able to create scoring chances would be difference makers.  This year we'll be more aggressive, because we have the weapons to be more aggressive.

 

The question is, can we manage the clock and still generate scoring chances and control the opponent defensively in a situation where we're going to have a greater number of total drives.  We've got the weapons to do it, I guess we'll see

I guess your interpretation of gunslinger is different than mine. 

So let me get this right, By us throwing more down field you are saying we need to control the clock? How does that work? 

If we suffer in the time of possessions category, how does that relate to controlling the clock? 

 I do agree we will throw more but not at the rate you are suggesting. 

I can see Rivers throwing to his RBs and TEs just as much as he does his WRs.