The WR no one is talking about.

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

I also thought a big problem with Brissett last year was that he was often slow going through his reads (or just wasn't looking through all of them).  Rivers, on the other hand, has been very solid in this aspect and doesn't seem to shy away from spreading the ball out.  Rivers also has had a lot of success with the kind of hybrid RB/WR (e.g., Darren Sproles, Austin Ekeler).  We have Hines who fills a similar niche there, but I also think Campbell can be used very similarly since he is so fast and athletic.  Regardless, I think Campbell is a major beneficiary of having a new (hopefully improved) QB on this team.

It almost seemed like he looked for TY, then skipped the middle of the field, and looked for the sideline guy (normally the X/Pascal). I think Rivers will see the entire field and make Ds pay if they get lazy covering the seam routes. I expect Campbell's route tree to grow this year, and his usage to be all over the place. If he can stay healthy, he's a good candidate to take over Z (TY's spot) at some point.

 

And I agree River's usage of RBs in the passing game. Hines looked like a boss in the passing game with Luck. Rivers over his career was better than Luck throwing to RBs, so Hines (and Mack/Taylor) should benefit. We really do have a nice assortment of receiving options, and a lot of both speed and size this year. There's no reason Rivers shouldn't see a resurgence if the WRs and TEs stay healthy. Even if TY is hobbled, we still have a lot of weapons. 

4 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

Although he only had 2 catches last year, I was impressed with the little we saw on Dulin.  Also, since he came from a small D2 school, I expect he'll make a big improvement between year 1 and year 2 as he is now used to the NFL speed and coaching. I hope he steps up and makes the team, even if his main contributions are on special teams.

I love Dulin's potential. He looked great returning, and has great measurables. So long as he can catch the ball, and run decent routes, I'm betting he makes the team. I could see him developing at either Z or slot. If he makes a nice jump in year 2, I could see him emerging as a legit weapon.

 

4 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

This definitely seems to be our deepest WR group going into a season in quite a while.  I think TY, Pittman, Pascal and Campbell are pretty much locks to make the team.  I assume we'll keep 6 WRs and think it's gonna be a tough battle for the last two slots with Patmon, Dulin, Fountain, and M. Johnson (who impressed me last year).  I also won't be shocked if Chad Williams or DeMichael Harris make some waves in training camp, especially if Harris proves he can be a legit KR. 

I agree on depth and talent. It's been a while since we had so much potential. Just need to stay healthy. We had a lot of potential last year too, but a mix of injury and QB limitation stagnated things. We have no excuse now. 

 

I'm guessing

X - Pittman, Pascal (will run a lot out of slot too)

Slot - Campbell, Dulin

Z - TY, Fountain

 

I really think Patmon needs a year on the PS. If he can start playing up to his size, he'll be hard to keep off the field. He's my #7. I like Johnson, I just think he's got a lower ceiling than the rest. He's a guy I'd love to hide on the PS and is my #8. He'll have a lot of comp though given his size/measurables. He and Williams will likely battle it out. I also like Harris, but his mix of slight build and small school background is a lot to overcome in year 1. I love his speed though, and his flexibility to be a running threat like Hines to an extent.

 

Returner will have a lot of comp this year. I like Hines and Dulin to be the two main guys. Rodgers IMO has a leg up on Harris, but it's hard to tell. I also think Rodgers benefits being a DB (needed in the roster), over Harris's WR/RB profile (less need for those).

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Don’t forget Johnson. We will see if Dulin’s ST abilities helps him make it over Johnson. But with Pitman and Pascal it will probably be hard for Johnson  to  make it.

[Imgrandojji]

On 8/10/2020 at 3:50 PM, NannyMcafee said:

Parris Cambell. 

 

I think we have forgotten the potential of this guy, and with drafting Pittman, he will just be in the slot where is does his best work.

 

Can anyone say the Colts WR group is underrated this year? 

 

 

College highlights:

 

When he starts showing up when it matters I'll start talking about Parris Campbell.  

 

To be endlessly in love with potential at the expense of the present is to become the Cardinals or Dolphins.  I'd like to think we're smarter than that

 

Or to put the same thing another way why don't you tell me what you think the difference is between Campbell and Phillip Dorsett.  I'll wait.

[NannyMcafee]

28 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

When he starts showing up when it matters I'll start talking about Parris Campbell.  

 

To be endlessly in love with potential at the expense of the present is to become the Cardinals or Dolphins.  I'd like to think we're smarter than that

 

Or to put the same thing another way why don't you tell me what you think the difference is between Campbell and Phillip Dorsett.  I'll wait.

 

 No one is in love with Cambell. 

 

And the difference is obviously completely different men. As much as people didn't like Dorsett hes still in this league. 

 

There are a lot of what ifs in the WR room, everyone knows that. But Ballard has proven that his staff does their homework on these players. So to act like Ryan Grigsons staff, and Chris Ballards staff do an equally fine job, is a bit ridiculous. Another difference would be who drafted who...? 

 

Ballard has built this team from nothing so when one of his players has his rookie year derailed by injuries im going to pay close attention and be excited for his potential. 

 

I am also excited about Trey Burton on our team because he's on our team. 

 

Its okay for you to look at players as bleak until they prove otherwise. Its also okay for me to be excited about players until they prove otherwise. 

 

Another thing is Cambell has more time with Rivers than any of the other WRs in the building per Colts media. 

[CurBeatElite]

On 8/14/2020 at 10:41 PM, EastStreet said:

I really think Patmon needs a year on the PS. If he can start playing up to his size, he'll be hard to keep off the field. He's my #7. I like Johnson, I just think he's got a lower ceiling than the rest. He's a guy I'd love to hide on the PS and is my #8. He'll have a lot of comp though given his size/measurables. He and Williams will likely battle it out. I also like Harris, but his mix of slight build and small school background is a lot to overcome in year 1. I love his speed though, and his flexibility to be a running threat like Hines to an extent.

 

Returner will have a lot of comp this year. I like Hines and Dulin to be the two main guys. Rodgers IMO has a leg up on Harris, but it's hard to tell. I also think Rodgers benefits being a DB (needed in the roster), over Harris's WR/RB profile (less need for those).

 

Patmon was very productive his last two years in college (61 receptions for 816 yards as a junior, 58 receptions for 762 yards as a senior).  I tend to think he's already fairly refined as a WR.  Plus he's got excellent size, he's strong (15 reps at 225 at combine), fast (4.48 forty at combine), and athletic.  I think he's got as good, if not better, of a shot as Fountain to make the squad... Fountain spent almost all of his rookie year on the PS and missed all year last year w/ a bad injury (even though he looked better last year than he did as a rookie).  Again, weird not having any preseason for us fans to judge the players, but I get the sense that Ballard and the coaching staff is pretty high on Patmon.

 

In terms of returners, I think Hines pretty much sealed himself in as punt returner after his end to last season (2 in one game vs. Carolina was ridiculous).  It will be interesting to see if the additional roster spots allow the team to  keep a guy who is kind of designated as 'kick returner' (which would be the only way I see Harris making the real roster instead of PS).  That said, I kind of doubt it and think we'd more likely use it to keep both Brissett and Eason on the roster and potentially for depth at a position of concern (right now, I'd say that's S or OL).  Looking through the rosters Ballard has had since his time as GM of Indy, we've kept 10 DBs (5 CBs/5 S's), 11 DBs (5 CBs/6 S's) and 10 DBs (5 CBs/5 S's).  Right now, with Tell taking the year off, I see the 4 CBs as essential locks being Rhodes, Carrie, Ya Sin and Moore.  Then I see Hooker, Willis, and Odum as 3 locks at S with Rutledge and T. Wilson both likely making the initial roster to total 5 S's (potential one gets axed or Rutledge demoted to PS when Blackmon returns).  That leaves Rodgers battling for a 5th CB spot with Pitts, Porter, T. Smith and Reed (all guys who have mainly been practice squad guys and Reed an UDFA rookie).  I'd think Rodgers has a pretty good shot at making the team based on who his competition is and the fact that he was drafted.  Ability to return kicks and contribute on STs will be a major plus.  That said, Ballard's previous teams have seen either 5 or 6 WRs.  I think TY, Campbell, Pittman and Pascal are locks with 4-5 talented guys fighting for 1-2 remaining spots.  My guess would be Dulin and Patmon (Dulin's ability to contribute on STs as a gunner and returner giving him an edge over other guys) are those 2 guys... but who knows, just hopefully the coaches/FO make the right decisions without getting to see these guys play live preseason games.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Patmon was very productive his last two years in college (61 receptions for 816 yards as a junior, 58 receptions for 762 yards as a senior).  I tend to think he's already fairly refined as a WR.  Plus he's got excellent size, he's strong (15 reps at 225 at combine), fast (4.48 forty at combine), and athletic.  I think he's got as good, if not better, of a shot as Fountain to make the squad... Fountain spent almost all of his rookie year on the PS and missed all year last year w/ a bad injury (even though he looked better last year than he did as a rookie).  Again, weird not having any preseason for us fans to judge the players, but I get the sense that Ballard and the coaching staff is pretty high on Patmon.

 

In terms of returners, I think Hines pretty much sealed himself in as punt returner after his end to last season (2 in one game vs. Carolina was ridiculous).  It will be interesting to see if the additional roster spots allow the team to  keep a guy who is kind of designated as 'kick returner' (which would be the only way I see Harris making the real roster instead of PS).  That said, I kind of doubt it and think we'd more likely use it to keep both Brissett and Eason on the roster and potentially for depth at a position of concern (right now, I'd say that's S or OL).  Looking through the rosters Ballard has had since his time as GM of Indy, we've kept 10 DBs (5 CBs/5 S's), 11 DBs (5 CBs/6 S's) and 10 DBs (5 CBs/5 S's).  Right now, with Tell taking the year off, I see the 4 CBs as essential locks being Rhodes, Carrie, Ya Sin and Moore.  Then I see Hooker, Willis, and Odum as 3 locks at S with Rutledge and T. Wilson both likely making the initial roster to total 5 S's (potential one gets axed or Rutledge demoted to PS when Blackmon returns).  That leaves Rodgers battling for a 5th CB spot with Pitts, Porter, T. Smith and Reed (all guys who have mainly been practice squad guys and Reed an UDFA rookie).  I'd think Rodgers has a pretty good shot at making the team based on who his competition is and the fact that he was drafted.  Ability to return kicks and contribute on STs will be a major plus.  That said, Ballard's previous teams have seen either 5 or 6 WRs.  I think TY, Campbell, Pittman and Pascal are locks with 4-5 talented guys fighting for 1-2 remaining spots.  My guess would be Dulin and Patmon (Dulin's ability to contribute on STs as a gunner and returner giving him an edge over other guys) are those 2 guys... but who knows, just hopefully the coaches/FO make the right decisions without getting to see these guys play live preseason games.

I've watched quite a few vids of Patmon, and it matches what most of the talking had to say. And that's he needs to work on routes and getting in and out of breaks better. The scheme he came from didn't do him a lot of favors in terms of refinement. If you get a chance to watch his film, you'll see how un-crisp his breaks are. He's way behind Pittman in that aspect. He's also kind of a one-speed guy, and not as versatile as Pittman (at least right now). The big thing is though, he doesn't play near to his size. That's what worries me more than the breaks and routes. 

 

All in all, I just can't see us keeping 3 Xs (Pittman, Pascal, and Patmon) on the roster this year. I could see them moving Pascal to #2 slot, but doubt they'd do it this year. Patmon really can only play X, while Dulin or Fountain can play all three positions.

 

I agree on Hines. He'll kill it this year returning. I think Dulin will as well. I'd love to see Rodgers involved, just not sure we'll trust him this early. He's a tiny little dude. He's another I think would benefit from a year on the PS. I don't see Harris making it.

 

But like you said, who knows lol. 

[CurBeatElite]

9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I've watched quite a few vids of Patmon, and it matches what most of the talking had to say. And that's he needs to work on routes and getting in and out of breaks better. The scheme he came from didn't do him a lot of favors in terms of refinement. If you get a chance to watch his film, you'll see how un-crisp his breaks are. He's way behind Pittman in that aspect. He's also kind of a one-speed guy, and not as versatile as Pittman (at least right now). The big thing is though, he doesn't play near to his size. That's what worries me more than the breaks and routes. 

 

All in all, I just can't see us keeping 3 Xs (Pittman, Pascal, and Patmon) on the roster this year. I could see them moving Pascal to #2 slot, but doubt they'd do it this year. Patmon really can only play X, while Dulin or Fountain can play all three positions.

 

I agree on Hines. He'll kill it this year returning. I think Dulin will as well. I'd love to see Rodgers involved, just not sure we'll trust him this early. He's a tiny little dude. He's another I think would benefit from a year on the PS. I don't see Harris making it.

 

But like you said, who knows lol. 

 

Not sure on Patmon not playing his size - I see plenty of tape on him using his height and leaping ability to create separation and make impressive catches.  And, coming from WSU vs. USC I'd expect Patmon to be a little less refined than Pittman (who also has a father who had a long NFL career).  I also don't really see what Dulin or Fountain possess which is significantly greater than Patmon where they're able to play all 3 WR positions and Patmon can strictly play one without a chance to develop a bit with NFL coaching.

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Not sure on Patmon not playing his size - I see plenty of tape on him using his height and leaping ability to create separation and make impressive catches.  And, coming from WSU vs. USC I'd expect Patmon to be a little less refined than Pittman (who also has a father who had a long NFL career).  I also don't really see what Dulin or Fountain possess which is significantly greater than Patmon where they're able to play all 3 WR positions and Patmon can strictly play one without a chance to develop a bit with NFL coaching.

Patmon is for sure limited to X/bully slot. It's very rare for 6-4 WR to play Z or traditional slot. Those two positions require fluidity, quick/light feet, and smooth/multi-speed route runners. Patmon is a one speed/build up speed guy with heavy feet, and not very fluid in the breaks. Dulin and Fountain possess those characteristics and could fit as a X, Z, or slot.. Dulin is sudden, fast, quick/agile, and plays bigger than his 6-1 height. Fountain is very similar. His biggest issue out of college was technique, and per the FO, he cleaned that up last summer before getting injured. 

 

Not saying Patmon can't improve, but he's simply a different type of WR all together compared to Dulin and Fountain. He could end up being a terrific X, but he'll never be a Z or traditional slot.

 

 

Here's Patmon's NFL.com profile

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/dezmon-patmon/32195041-5416-2967-3c9d-d58aabb33560

 

As far as him not playing to his size, Lance mentions it (as does other reviews), but I'd recommend watching Stanford and Cal games for examples of smaller DBs getting the better of him.