Colts QB Room in 2020 is better than any current #1 pick

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Cynthia Frelund of NFL.com has ranked all 32 teams by their "QB Room".

 

If ya'll don't know Ms. Frelund, you should do a little research.  She's pretty dang good at her job!  

 

Anyway, here's her ranking:

https://www.nfl.com/videos/game-theory-ranking-top-players-at-the-qb-position

 

Now, if anyone wants to correct me if I'm wrong, I welcome that with open arms.  But it appears that the Colts QB Room comes in at #9, outranking SEVEN (7) QBs that were selected with the #1 overall pick.  And every QB room ranked above the Colts (#1-#8) doesn't have a single QB that was selected higher than Rivers (#4).

 

And that's just talking about the starting QB.  When you include our backup QBs (Brissett, Kelly, and Eason), we're talking about a pretty stacked QB Room.  I'm not sure #9 is too low...  

[Yoshinator]

4 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Cynthia Frelund of NFL.com has ranked all 32 teams by their "QB Room".

 

If ya'll don't know Ms. Frelund, you should do a little research.  She's pretty dang good at her job!  

 

Anyway, here's her ranking:

https://www.nfl.com/videos/game-theory-ranking-top-players-at-the-qb-position

 

Now, if anyone wants to correct me if I'm wrong, I welcome that with open arms.  But it appears that the Colts QB Room comes in at #9, outranking SEVEN (7) QBs that were selected with the #1 overall pick.  And every QB room ranked above the Colts (#1-#8) doesn't have a single QB that was selected higher than Rivers (#4).

 

And that's just talking about the starting QB.  When you include our backup QBs (Brissett, Kelly, and Eason), we're talking about a pretty stacked QB Room.  I'm not sure #9 is too low...  

I love Cynthia, she's a great analytics expert and really knows what she's talking about! Though some of her fantasy rankings are a little wacky, I will admit.

 

I'll take 9th honestly. That would mean Rivers is a draftable QB in 10 and 12 team fantasy leagues to start, and he can lead us when need be. Just because a QB is no1 overall doesn't mean they're great. In fact, there are QB's taken all over the first round that are better than the no1 overall QB selections. That should give us hope for next year.

[Chucklez]

Your QB room is only as good as your starter though....Would anyone here say Rivers is the 9th best QB in the league at this point? Don't get me wrong, i think he is in a position to succeed and should improve on last year, but a lot of other QB's behind our line would too.....

I would easily take the following over Rivers at the moment (in no particular order):

 

- Drew Brees
- Deshaun Watson
- Mahomes
- L. Jackson
- M. Ryan
- Aaron Rodgers

- Carson Wentz

- Kyle Murray
- Dak P.

- Kirk Cousins
- M. Stafford
- R. Wilson

And i would certainly take a risk on someone like these guys for the long term factor as well:

- Joe Burrow
- Cam Newton

- Jimmy G

- Baker Mayfield

[Coffeedrinker]

9 hours ago, Chucklez said:

Your QB room is only as good as your starter though....Would anyone here say Rivers is the 9th best QB in the league at this point? Don't get me wrong, i think he is in a position to succeed and should improve on last year, but a lot of other QB's behind our line would too.....

I would easily take the following over Rivers at the moment (in no particular order):

 

- Drew Brees
- Deshaun Watson
- Mahomes
- L. Jackson
- M. Ryan
- Aaron Rodgers

- Carson Wentz

- Kyle Murray
- Dak P.

- Kirk Cousins
- M. Stafford
- R. Wilson

And i would certainly take a risk on someone like these guys for the long term factor as well:

- Joe Burrow
- Cam Newton

- Jimmy G

- Baker Mayfield

I think this is a bit more realistic.

[holeymoley99]

Wait you crossed off Lamar Jackson by accident, I assume anyway

[2006Coltsbestever]

51 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Wait you crossed off Lamar Jackson by accident, I assume anyway

Yeah the rest of @Coffeedrinker post is pretty accurate though but Lamar is better I agree. 

[jmac_48]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah the rest of @Coffeedrinker post is pretty accurate though but Lamar is better I agree. 

Meh: He's a RB playing QB...

 

[Chucklez]

@Coffeedrinker are you seriously trying to tell me you wouldn’t have D. Watson, L. Jackson or M. Ryan over Phillip Rivers at this point in Rivers’ career?

 

You’re crazy man!

[Chucklez]

5 hours ago, jmac_48 said:

Meh: He's a RB playing QB...

 

 

True in Lamar's first year in the league, but not last year.... but even if it was true for last year, I'm just going to leave these stats here:....

 

L. Jackson 2019 passing stats:

401 attempts  -  3,127 yards (avg 7.8)  -  36 TD  -  6 INTs  -  Passer rating: 113.3

 

P. Rivers 2019 passing stats:

591 attempts  -  4,615 yards (avg 7.8)  -  23 TD  -  20 INTs  -  Passer rating: 88.5

 

I know which QB i'd prefer.... especially as this ignores Lamar's value as a runner and elusiveness. Also yes i see your trapdoor emoji, but i get the feeling that other people feel this way..... so i wanted to just crush that narrative.

 

Also, people please dont get me wrong, i think Phillip will do well with us and is definitely an upgrade for us. I was merely making the point that while he should be great (especially behind our O-line), let's not get too carried away thinking we have one of the leagues best QB's, because we don't. He will do a good enough job to not hold the team back, which is more than we could hope for last year at the position.

[Coffeedrinker]

13 hours ago, holeymoley99 said:

Wait you crossed off Lamar Jackson by accident, I assume anyway

 

12 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah the rest of @Coffeedrinker post is pretty accurate though but Lamar is better I agree. 

I debated about that one, TBH.  I know he had a great season but I only watched him a couple of times, against KC early in the season and against the Titans in the playoffs.  In those games, as a football player he is impressive, speed, stronger than you'd think, reads the field well while running, and fearless, all excellent traits but as a QB he is not accurate in that critical 8-12 yard range and his progressions are usually limited to half the field. So when comparing him to Rivers as a QB, he is not as good.  On the flip side of that, if I had to pick one for a team I'd probably go with Jackson because of age and the fact that he seems like a hard worker and someone who works hard to improve his craft, so I don't think we've seen the best of Jackson yet.

[Coffeedrinker]

2 hours ago, Chucklez said:

@Coffeedrinker are you seriously trying to tell me you wouldn’t have D. Watson, L. Jackson or M. Ryan over Phillip Rivers at this point in Rivers’ career?

 

You’re crazy man!

See above on explanation of Jackson.  And IMO Watson is one of the most over-rated players in the league and Matt Ryan is pretty much the same as Rivers, so one or the other the results will be the same.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

See above on explanation of Jackson.  And IMO Watson is one of the most over-rated players in the league and Matt Ryan is pretty much the same as Rivers, so one or the other the results will be the same.

I do like Matt Ryan and Watson too but your post was on cue with the exception of Lamar. Watson still hasn't won any big games in the playoffs. Lamar won the MVP.

[Coffeedrinker]

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I do like Matt Ryan and Watson too but your post was on cue with the exception of Lamar. Watson still hasn't won any big games in the playoffs. Lamar won the MVP.

Yeah, even with someone like Watson, you like his toughness (both mental and physical) he doesn't have a monster arm but he has good arm and he is improving as well.  Even last year, he still looks like a primarily first read QB.  And if his first read isn't open and there is a rush, he panics (One of the big reasons why I'm not a Eason fan).

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I do like Matt Ryan and Watson too but your post was on cue with the exception of Lamar. Watson still hasn't won any big games in the playoffs. Lamar won the MVP.

 

Watson is 1-2 in the playoffs...same as Luck after his first two trips...but Watson was much better on the field (8 INT vs 1 INT...for example). 

 

It's rare for QBs at that age (outside of  Mahomes or Wilson) to immediately perform big and win big in the playoffs...Colts fans should know that...we saw it with both Luck and Peyton. This lack of playoff success (to date) is also an argument that I hear about Dak (and now Lamar) as well...just seems like a bit of a double standard. 

 

And looking at Watson's stats in his first two playoff years...it compares favorably to just about anybody not named Mahomes. And he's still a few years from entering that prime age range of 28-32...where most of the great QBs peak and start winning big in the postseason. That's a scary thought...and I would take Watson in a heartbeat.

 

And we are just talking about the playoffs...Watson's regular season production has been fantastic.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

Watson is 1-2 in the playoffs...same as Luck after his first two trips...but Watson was much better on the field (8 INT vs 1 INT...for example). 

 

It's rare for QBs at that age (outside of  Mahomes or Wilson) to immediately perform big and win big in the playoffs...Colts fans should know that...we saw it with both Luck and Peyton. This lack of playoff success (to date) is also an argument that I hear about Dak (and now Lamar) as well...just seems like a bit of a double standard. 

 

And looking at Watson's stats in his first two playoff years...it compares favorably to just about anybody not named Mahomes. And he's still a few years from entering that prime age range of 28-32...where most of the great QBs peak and start winning big in the postseason. That's a scary thought...and I would take Watson in a heartbeat.

 

And we are just talking about the playoffs...Watson's regular season production has been fantastic.

How is it a double standard?  Manning had the tag for years that he could not win in a big game, until he did.  when comparing Watson and Luck first two years, Watson had a solid running game, a top 3 WR and a top defense.  Luck had a solid running game, a top WR in Wayne and a horrible defense.  They both had bad offensive lines.  Another item to note, after 2 years in the league Luck was 1-2 in the playoffs.  After 2 years in the league Watson was 0-1 in the playoffs.

[shasta519]

48 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

How is it a double standard?  Manning had the tag for years that he could not win in a big game, until he did.  when comparing Watson and Luck first two years, Watson had a solid running game, a top 3 WR and a top defense.  Luck had a solid running game, a top WR in Wayne and a horrible defense.  They both had bad offensive lines.  Another item to note, after 2 years in the league Luck was 1-2 in the playoffs.  After 2 years in the league Watson was 0-1 in the playoffs.

 

Watson only played 6 games in his rookie season before going on IR. He was 3-3 over those first 6 starts (interestingly...same as Luck). But if we are talking about playoffs...we can only look at their first two trips to compare (they were both in their age 23 and 24 seasons as well). And in that comparison...they were both 1-2...but Watson had better stats. 

 

Watson did have Hopkins the past two years...but he only had a good defense in 2018 (last year's defense was awful...just look at what JB was able to do...or what happened in the Divisional game). The run game (led by Lamar Miller and Carlos Hyde the past two years) was solid because of Watson...who is a threat on the ground and chips in 400-500 yards and half dozen TDs on the ground each year.

 

But I was only using the Luck comparison as one data point...the list of good-great QBs who took a few seasons (or playoff trips) before winning big games in the playoffs...is long...like really long. The fact that Watson hasn't won any big games by age 24...is not unique to him. And I don't think it's a fair standard...because nearly all of these other QBs peaked in the age 27-32 range...and that is when they started winning big games (aside from the clear best two QBs in the NFL right now...Mahomes and Wilson). 

 

Watson will only be 25...so I think it's far too early to judge him on his ability to win big games. His stats...both in the regular season and playoffs...show he's a top 10 QB. I would take him in a heartbeat if I could. My real fear is that BB somehow gets his hands on Watson.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Watson is a top 10 QB today IMO but when we faced them in the 2018 playoffs I didn't fear him because we had Luck. I fear guys like Mahomes, Lamar, Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, and even Tom at age 100  

[Coffeedrinker]

39 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Watson only played 6 games in his rookie season before going on IR. He was 3-3 over those first 6 starts (interestingly...same as Luck). But if we are talking about playoffs...we can only look at their first two trips to compare (they were both in their age 23 and 24 seasons as well). And in that comparison...they were both 1-2...but Watson had better stats. 

 

Watson did have Hopkins the past two years...but he only had a good defense in 2018 (last year's defense was awful...just look at what JB was able to do...or what happened in the Divisional game). The run game (led by Lamar Miller and Carlos Hyde the past two years) was solid because of Watson...who is a threat on the ground and chips in 400-500 yards and half dozen TDs on the ground each year.

 

But I was only using the Luck comparison as one data point...the list of good-great QBs who took a few seasons (or playoff trips) before winning big games in the playoffs...is long...like really long. The fact that Watson hasn't won any big games by age 24...is not unique to him. And I don't think it's a fair standard...because nearly all of these other QBs peaked in the age 27-32 range...and that is when they started winning big games (aside from the clear best two QBs in the NFL right now...Mahomes and Wilson). 

 

Watson will only be 25...so I think it's far too early to judge him on his ability to win big games. His stats...both in the regular season and playoffs...show he's a top 10 QB. I would take him in a heartbeat if I could. My real fear is that BB somehow gets his hands on Watson.

 

 

It's fine you feel that way and I don't want you to take my posts as telling you I think you're wrong, just that we look at different things from a QB.

[shasta519]

14 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Watson is a top 10 QB today IMO but when we faced them in the 2018 playoffs I didn't fear him because we had Luck. I fear guys like Mahomes, Lamar, Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, and even Tom at age 100  

 

Well...sure Watson was only 23 in 2018.

 

Mahomes and Wilson aside...Watson is so much younger than those guys when they became the players we now know. A 27 year-old Watson could be a much scarier opponent...especially if you have a motivated BB coaching him. 

 

No guarantees of course...but I am only taking a handful of QBs on my team over Watson right now. And as much as I was onboard with Rivers (even before he signed)...Rivers isn't one of those QBs. The Colts can still win with him though...but the margin for error won't be there.

[crazycolt1]

8 hours ago, Chucklez said:

 

True in Lamar's first year in the league, but not last year.... but even if it was true for last year, I'm just going to leave these stats here:....

 

L. Jackson 2019 passing stats:

401 attempts  -  3,127 yards (avg 7.8)  -  36 TD  -  6 INTs  -  Passer rating: 113.3

 

P. Rivers 2019 passing stats:

591 attempts  -  4,615 yards (avg 7.8)  -  23 TD  -  20 INTs  -  Passer rating: 88.5

 

I know which QB i'd prefer.... especially as this ignores Lamar's value as a runner and elusiveness. Also yes i see your trapdoor emoji, but i get the feeling that other people feel this way..... so i wanted to just crush that narrative.

 

Also, people please dont get me wrong, i think Phillip will do well with us and is definitely an upgrade for us. I was merely making the point that while he should be great (especially behind our O-line), let's not get too carried away thinking we have one of the leagues best QB's, because we don't. He will do a good enough job to not hold the team back, which is more than we could hope for last year at the position.

You can't just hand pick Jackson's and River's stats from last year and expect to be taken serious.

The quality of the two teams they played for was night and day. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Well...sure Watson was only 23 in 2018.

 

Mahomes and Wilson aside...Watson is so much younger than those guys when they became the players we now know. A 27 year-old Watson could be a much scarier opponent...especially if you have a motivated BB coaching him. 

 

No guarantees of course...but I am only taking a handful of QBs on my team over Watson right now. And as much as I was onboard with Rivers (even before he signed)...Rivers isn't one of those QBs. The Colts can still win with him though...but the margin for error won't be there.

I would love to have Watson as our QB so don't get me wrong, he would fit our team perfect. I don't think he is a top 5 QB though like Luck was.

[Chucklez]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

You can't just hand pick Jackson's and River's stats from last year and expect to be taken serious.

The quality of the two teams they played for was night and day. 

 

One was the league MVP.... the other nearly threw more INT than TDs.

I get that context is important as well as the pieces around the QB, but let's be real.... but good / bad teams around you or not.... that is a stark difference.

If you are telling me that if someone said we could have Lamar Jackson on the team this year, or Philip Rivers that you would choose Philip, you are either crazy or just bare faced lying.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Chucklez said:

 

One was the league MVP.... the other nearly threw more INT than TDs.

I get that context is important as well as the pieces around the QB, but let's be real.... but good / bad teams around you or not.... that is a stark difference.

If you are telling me that if someone said we could have Lamar Jackson on the team this year, or Philip Rivers that you would choose Philip, you are either crazy or just bare faced lying.

Where did I say anything or tell you anything but the fact of the talent level between the two teams?

If you can't comprehend that Rivers threw more interceptions because he was having to play from behind then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

[a06cc]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Where did I say anything or tell you anything but the fact of the talent level between the two teams?

If you can't comprehend that Rivers threw more interceptions because he was having to play from behind then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

No that’s just not true at all. The Chargers had leads and Rivers lost them games. Last season wasn’t the only season the guy threw 20 INT’s in a season. He follows with a better season. I hoping for that trend to continue. 

[crazycolt1]

38 minutes ago, a06cc said:

No that’s just not true at all. The Chargers had leads and Rivers lost them games. Last season wasn’t the only season the guy threw 20 INT’s in a season. He follows with a better season. I hoping for that trend to continue. 

It does not take a lot of football knowledge to know when a QB has no running game and one of the worst offensive lines in the league that he will struggle. When the QB has to put the team on his back and score every time the offense gets the ball of course he is going to throw interceptions. 

Even Peyton Manning had 9 years of throwing 15 interceptions or more. 

[Chucklez]

@crazycolt1 - the point that i am trying to make is simply that Rivers isnt the 9th best QB in the league at this point. If you put all of those players i mentioned in my list above behind the same line, you cant tell me you wouldnt be surprised if they had better seasons.

Having said that, I think Rivers is going to do well behind our line, because our line is freakin awesome. I am not trying to tear Philip down or say that he isnt going to be good for us. I was just trying to point out that he isnt 9th best overall. Not anymore at this stage of his career.