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I Hate to Bring Up Old Thread Topics But Who Is The Most Overrated Colt?


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Most overrated on the roster is Chad Kelly,  has never played a single regular season game and people think he’s the next Peyton Manning

I’d give you a rec just for having Beet as an avatar, but you don’t get one since Vinny isn’t on the roster.     And he’s still the GOAT.  

9 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

That was kinda my original point... your opinion, my opinion, "expert" opinion, doesn't matter, it's all just opinion, neither right or wrong, just opinion.

If you’re trying to say everyone is entitled to their own opinion, you won’t get a word of disagreement from me.

 

But.... 

 

If, instead, you’re trying to say all opinion is equal, no matter who, then I’m going to disagree strongly.  Those are different positions, and I’m not sure which you’re stating?   

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1 minute ago, holeymoley99 said:

Jim Brown averaged  104.3 yards per game for crying out loud, Sanders 2nd at 99.8,  if you look way down you find Smith 15th at 81.2

Emmitt = 3 SB wins, played with 1 arm at NY and didn't quit on his team. Emmitt also won the rushing Title 4 years in a row and is the all-time leader in rushing yards and TD's. He rarely fumbled either. Jim Brown fumbled quite a bit, that is just an intangible that is key.

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

If you’re trying to say everyone us entitled to their own opinion, you won’t get a word if disagreement from me.

 

But.... 

 

If, instead, you’re trying to say all opinion is equal, no matter who, then I’m going to disagree strongly.   Those are different positions, and I’m not sure which you’re stating?   

I think he is saying everyone is entitled to their own opinion 

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1 minute ago, holeymoley99 said:

Brown missed 1 game, 1 in his entire career not sure how hat is crying over a stub toe

He only played 9 seasons. He said he couldn't take the beating anymore. Emmitt played 15. The stub toe committ was more of a sarcastic comment.

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9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

If, instead, you’re trying to say all opinion is equal, no matter who, then I’m going to disagree strongly.   Those are different positions, and I’m not sure which you’re stating?

 

I'm saying he is using certain kinds of stats to prove his opinion "right", when those same certain stats are going to prove him "wrong" in other cases.  But regardless it still just boils down to being his opinion, which is neither right or wrong, it's just his opinion.

 

Case in point:  he says Jerry Rice is the GOAT.  If he's going to use stats (facts as he calls them) to support that, then were talking about career records like receptions, yds, TDs, playoff and SB records, etc. IE CAREER records.

 

Those same sort of CAREER records and stats support Vinny as the GOAT, IE FGs made, points scored, OT FGs, playoff and SB records, etc.

 

But now he's using a different argument to say Brown is better than Emmitt, who has better career stats when it comes to total yds, total TDs, playoff and SB stats, longevity of career, etc.

 

@holeymoley99 is cherry-picking whatever stats support his opinion, which is fine, we all do that.  But it's just opinion, he's neither right or wrong, just very opinionated...  haha

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Actually I'm not I'm consistent if you look at what I posted. Brown had the shorter career than Smith but with better numbers which is exactly what I pointed out with Tucker vs Vinny now if i said Smith over Brown that would be going against the grain however I did not to be clear.....

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6 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Brown played 9 years and led the league in rushing 8 times....his avg per carry dwarfs Smith also

To be honest with you out of respect I would probably rank Brown #1 because he set the tone for all other RB's but Emmitt holds the records and IMO played against better competition.

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Just now, holeymoley99 said:

Actually I'm not I'm consistent if you look at what I posted. Brown had the shorter career than Smith but with better numbers which is exactly what I pointed out with Tucker vs Vinny now if i said Smith over Brown that would be going against the grain however I did not to be clear.....

 

But what makes Rice the GOAT if it's not his career stats?

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3 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

But what makes Rice the GOAT if it's not his career stats?

Everyone just says Rice is the GOAT but Emmitt isn't?? I am puzzled with that too. Rice had Montana and Young most of his career so why should Emmitt be penalized for having a great Line 5 or 6 years in his career? 

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Times he was 1st team All Pro vs years played (Same argument I had in favor of Tucker),  years leading league in Rec yards vs years played (Again same argument in favor of Tucker)....we dont have % for position players like kickers at our disposal like how many drops Rice had, how many yards post contact for Brown....so cant use those 

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I dont penalize Emmitt for having a great line, does it help of course it does. The per game averages he put up, yards per carry a full yard less every time than Brown a FULL yard, yards per game, time lead league in rushing vs years in league. He just pales vs brown

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29 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Guess we have different criteria for experts but sure most would consider him so even those that hate him and I do but BB is an expert 

BB seems a more expert in not knowing what the rules are. Or not knowing what his staff is up to. 

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2 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Times he was 1st team All Pro vs years played (Same argument I had in favor of Tucker),  years leading league in Rec yards vs years played (Again same argument in favor of Tucker)....we dont have % for position players like kickers at our disposal like how many drops Rice had, how many yards post contact for Brown....so cant use those 

 

See, those are cherry-picked stats.

 

You ask 100 people what makes Rice the GOAT, and you're the only one that would use those particular stats.  The other 99 are using his career stats, playoff stats, SB stats, etc.

 

Like I've said, this is all just your opinion.  I can use career stats to support my opinion because (in my opinion) "your greatest ability is your availability", so the longer the career, the better.  I agree about Rice, I disagree about Brown, Gonzalez, and I disagree about Tucker.  :dunno:

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7 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

I dont penalize Emmitt for having a great line, does it help of course it does. The per game averages he put up, yards per carry a full yard less every time than Brown a FULL yard, yards per game, time lead league in rushing vs years in league. He just pales vs brown

Brown was awesome I agree. I just don't understand how people can say Rice is the best WR ever but Emmitt isn't the best RB ever. It is based on longevity and records and rings why Rice is considered the best, so Emmitt should be too based on that thinking. Randy Moss was far more talented than Rice was, I could say Moss was the GOAT by my eye test. He was faster and taller than Rice was and uncoverable.

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27 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I'm saying he is using certain kinds of stats to prove his opinion "right", when those same certain stats are going to prove him "wrong" in other cases.  But regardless it still just boils down to being his opinion, which is neither right or wrong, it's just his opinion.

 

Case in point:  he says Jerry Rice is the GOAT.  If he's going to use stats (facts as he calls them) to support that, then were talking about career records like receptions, yds, TDs, playoff and SB records, etc. IE CAREER records.

 

Those same sort of CAREER records and stats support Vinny as the GOAT, IE FGs made, points scored, OT FGs, playoff and SB records, etc.

 

But now he's using a different argument to say Brown is better than Emmitt, who has better career stats when it comes to total yds, total TDs, playoff and SB stats, longevity of career, etc.

 

@holeymoley99 is cherry-picking whatever stats support his opinion, which is fine, we all do that.  But it's just opinion, he's neither right or wrong, just very opinionated...  haha

Ok...   thanks...   I’ve stayed out of this debate...   when you get down to debating which Hall of Famer is best then it’s all about the personal opinion.    And many (most?) cherry pick stats to support their opinion.

 

These kind of debates don’t do anything for me.  It’s like debating things like favorite music or group?   Favorite food or ice cream?   Favorite movie or piece of art?   It’s rare when anyone changes their mind.

 

Best RB?   You can also make an argument for Walter Payton or OJ Simpson?   Everyone has a favorite and there’s an argument for all. 

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You exactly prove my point about why Rice is and Emmitt isnt, it isnt just about longevity it is what you did with it. In the NBA Wilt is the best ever and he didnt have the longest career but put up numbers no one will ever ever touch, you cant do it for 1 year or 2 years you need some time but in no way does it have to be the longest time, overall starts JUST based on longevity does not the greatest make as I have been saying and Smith is the perfect example....

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50 pts and 25 rebounds per game for an entire season.....30.1 pts over career and 22.9 reb for a career , 46 minutes a game over a career, avg Center height during his era was 6'10 (A false narrative over the years he was much taller than those he play against he was not )

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

RB's like Brown and Sanders would cry over a stub toe.

I hope I’m missing sarcasm here.  Jim brown and Barry were tough as nails. 
 

edit: you clarified the sarcasm later.  My bad!

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9 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

I hope I’m missing sarcasm here.  Jim brown and Barry were tough as nails. 
 

edit: you clarified the sarcasm later.  My bad!

Yeah I was being sarcastic, I even got a confused look from NCF. In my original post I left off the sarcasm font. I figured most would know I was joking about the stub toe part.

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9 hours ago, holeymoley99 said:

You exactly prove my point about why Rice is and Emmitt isnt, it isnt just about longevity it is what you did with it. In the NBA Wilt is the best ever and he didnt have the longest career but put up numbers no one will ever ever touch, you cant do it for 1 year or 2 years you need some time but in no way does it have to be the longest time, overall starts JUST based on longevity does not the greatest make as I have been saying and Smith is the perfect example....

I think Kareem was better but Wilt was a monster. Kareem won 6 League MVP's and 6 NBA Titles, 3 NCAA Titles as well and is the all-time leading scorer. Kareem just has a better resume just like Rice has compared to other WR's.

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The 5 best RB's in no order are probably Brown, Sanders, Payton, Dickerson, and Emmitt from my eye test. All can make a case for being the GOAT. Out of respect, most people do put Brown at #1 but Emmitt does hold the main records.

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Kareem definitely a great player, scoring wise, rebound wise,taking over a game no one did it quite like Will. If you put Will on the Celtic squads Bill Russell was on Wilt would have the rings Bill does, those club had Hall Of Famer's All Stars all the way through lineup. Wilt won 4 mvp's in reality could have won many more,player's voted on the award back then and Wilt was not as well liked as Bill Russell (Biggest snub was 1961-62...Will averaged 31 MORE points per game then Russell, not 31 points a game 31 MORE points a game then the voted on MVP, crazy...)

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14 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Kareem definitely a great player, scoring wise, rebound wise,taking over a game no one did it quite like Will. If you put Will on the Celtic squads Bill Russell was on Wilt would have the rings Bill does, those club had Hall Of Famer's All Stars all the way through lineup. Wilt won 4 mvp's in reality could have won many more,player's voted on the award back then and Wilt was not as well liked as Bill Russell (Biggest snub was 1961-62...Will averaged 31 MORE points per game then Russell, not 31 points a game 31 MORE points a game then the voted on MVP, crazy...)

It was before my time regarding Wilt and Russell but I would definitely take Wilt over Russell. Wilt was much more dominant and could play in this era today, he had the size and strength to do so. Russell was on stack teams back in the 60's so he won more but Wilt was the better player. I would take Shaq over Russell as well. 

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15 hours ago, holeymoley99 said:

WR- Rice

RB-Brown

QB- Too close as opposed to other positions

TE-Gonzalez

 

It's what I have for other spots

How do you Gonzalez over Gronk?

 

Yards per game

 

Gronk:  68.3

Gonzo:  56

 

Yards per reception 

 

Gronk:   15.1

Gonzo:   11.4

 

TD/Game%

 

Gronk:  .68

Gonzo:  .41

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5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

How do you Gonzalez over Gronk?

 

Yards per game

 

Gronk:  68.3

Gonzo:  56

 

Yards per reception 

 

Gronk:   15.1

Gonzo:   11.4

 

TD/Game%

 

Gronk:  .68

Gonzo:  .41

I would take Gronk if both were in their primes but it is close.

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Saying who is the GOAT is 100% all opinions.

Was Brady anymore talented than Manning?

Was J. Rice anymore talented than M. Harrison or Tim Brown?

Was E. Smith anymore talented than B.Sanders, J. Brown or W. Payton? 

It could be argued that Sanders and Payton did more with less. Sanders also quit early in his career just like Brown did. 

We can all hand pick the stats to suit ourselves and make our own argument. That don't mean one opinion is any better that another. 

 

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16 hours ago, holeymoley99 said:

WR- Rice

RB-Brown

QB- Too close as opposed to other positions

TE-Gonzalez

 

It's what I have for other spots

I will go with:

WR - Marvin Harrison

RB - Emmitt just to be different, you already picked Brown

QB - Peyton

TE - Gronk

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16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would take Gronk if both were in their primes but it is close.

Gonzo didn't have Brady his whole career either.  

If Gates, Winslow or Sharp would have had Brady their careers how would they be looked at? 

It's all how you look at things. 

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Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Gonzo didn't have Brady his whole career either.  

If Gates, Winslow or Sharp would have had Brady their careers how would they be looked at? 

It's all how you look at things. 

It is all opinion anyway I agree with you and Winslow was my favorite TE growing up. The Chargers were fun to watch with he, Fouts, Joiner.

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