I Hate to Bring Up Old Thread Topics But Who Is The Most Overrated Colt?

[csmopar]

5 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Vinateri has made some very clutch kicks in this career, but I would not refer to him as the GOAT

He leads every category of kickers and is by far the most clutch. You’re probably the only person to ever say he’s not the GOAT at the kicker position

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

He leads every category of kickers and is by far the most clutch. You’re probably the only person to ever say he’s not the GOAT at the kicker position

He not only holds the records of kickers. he holds the record for the most points scored in NFL history for any NFL player. 

Personally I think his career is over as his age has caught up to him but for anyone to say he is not the GOAT of kickers is not only wrong, it's horse dung. 

[Dogg63]

Morten Andersen's take on it:

 

“I’m taking Vinatieri just cause of his resume,” Andersen said. “He did it in Super Bowls he did it in the snow, he’s done it in all kinds of weather. So I’m going to take Vinatieri right now, but Tucker is certainly capable.”

However, Andersen didn’t give just one player when asked about the greatest kicker of all time.

“There’s a couple of good guys,” Andersen said. “Vinatieri is right up there, Tucker is right up there. I feel like I belong,” Andersen said.

“I feel [Jan] Stenerud belongs, Gary [Anderson] belongs, Jason Hanson, I don’t think you can just say this is the guy; there are several guys that are right up there in the top tier.”

[John Hammonds]

2 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

This.  It’s put up or shut up time for Tyquan.  I’d also give honorable mention to Malik Hooker.  Hasn’t lived up to the ball magnet hype thus far.  Show and tell time for him as well.  

Should I start the conspiracy theory that  Paris Campbell may already be behind the eight ball?

Try this on for size:  Every time we draft somebody from Ohio State, it all seems to go badly.  Or, at least, to just sit in the ho-hum pile.  Consider:

2003 D2 - Mike Doss Safety - 102 tackles his first year, then started to miss games.  released after 2006.

2004 D3 - Ben Hartsock Tight End - Reserve.  Played behind Marcus Pollard and Dallas Clark. released after 2005.

2007 D1 - Anthony Gonzales Receiver - Um...  Bust.  bust bust bust.

2007 D3 - Quinn Pitcock Defensive Tackle - Retired after one season, with bouts of depression and video game addiction.

2007 D5 - Roy Hall Receiver - Reserve that suffered horrific special teams injury.  Waived in 2009.

2014 D2 - Jack Mewhort Guard - Played well, but kept getting hurt.  Retired in 2018.

2017 D1 - Malik Hooker Safety - Injuries have kept him from being the ball hawk he was supposed to be.

2018 D2 - Tyquan Lewis Defensive Line - Often injured, hasn't shown much as a difference maker.

2019 D2 - Paris Campbell Receiver - Multiple injuries rookie year limited playing time and effectiveness.

[a06cc]

I’m not saying he isn’t a bad player. I just feel he is over hyped. He’ll have a few good moments.  My most overrated Colt is Anthony Castonzo. We got whip against the Rams. He was just getting used and abused by Robert Quinn. I’m not bashing him by no means. He’ll have his moments. I just think he’s an okay player. Glad Quenton Nelson is next to him. 

[PrincetonTiger]

26 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

Morten Andersen's take on it:

 

“I’m taking Vinatieri just cause of his resume,” Andersen said. “He did it in Super Bowls he did it in the snow, he’s done it in all kinds of weather. So I’m going to take Vinatieri right now, but Tucker is certainly capable.”

However, Andersen didn’t give just one player when asked about the greatest kicker of all time.

“There’s a couple of good guys,” Andersen said. “Vinatieri is right up there, Tucker is right up there. I feel like I belong,” Andersen said.

“I feel [Jan] Stenerud belongs, Gary [Anderson] belongs, Jason Hanson, I don’t think you can just say this is the guy; there are several guys that are right up there in the top tier.”

Great statement by MA

[crazycolt1]

19 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Great statement by MA

Had Anderson or Hanson been on a team of New England's and or the Colts caliber they could have very well had as many points. 

[PrincetonTiger]

25 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Had Anderson or Hanson been on a team of New England's and or the Colts caliber they could have very well had as many points. 

Agreed

[Coltsman1788]

1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

Should I start the conspiracy theory that  Paris Campbell may already be behind the eight ball?

Try this on for size:  Every time we draft somebody from Ohio State, it all seems to go badly.  Or, at least, to just sit in the ho-hum pile.  Consider:

2003 D2 - Mike Doss Safety - 102 tackles his first year, then started to miss games.  released after 2006.

2004 D3 - Ben Hartsock Tight End - Reserve.  Played behind Marcus Pollard and Dallas Clark. released after 2005.

2007 D1 - Anthony Gonzales Receiver - Um...  Bust.  bust bust bust.

2007 D3 - Quinn Pitcock Defensive Tackle - Retired after one season, with bouts of depression and video game addiction.

2007 D5 - Roy Hall Receiver - Reserve that suffered horrific special teams injury.  Waived in 2009.

2014 D2 - Jack Mewhort Guard - Played well, but kept getting hurt.  Retired in 2018.

2017 D1 - Malik Hooker Safety - Injuries have kept him from being the ball hawk he was supposed to be.

2018 D2 - Tyquan Lewis Defensive Line - Often injured, hasn't shown much as a difference maker.

2019 D2 - Paris Campbell Receiver - Multiple injuries rookie year limited playing time and effectiveness.

Wow...I knew the Colts hadn’t really had much success with Ohio State players but didn’t realize the list was so extensive.  I’m not willing to write off Paris just yet but my enthusiasm has waned considerably from when he was first  drafted. I’m just hoping he can stay reasonably healthy and see the field this year.  Didn’t play or do much last year. 

[PrincetonTiger]

@John Hammonds

  you forgot Art Schlichter 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

He leads every category of kickers and is by far the most clutch. You’re probably the only person to ever say he’s not the GOAT at the kicker position

Actually he ranks around 25th all time in career field goal percentage. So out of say 7 billion people in the world I am the only one? Wow.

[Myles]

10 hours ago, shasta519 said:

Throw out the first season...and it’s 17-15. That’s not bad...but it’s not very good.

17-15 is pretty good considering the starting QB quit just weeks before the season started.   

[crazycolt1]

33 minutes ago, Myles said:

17-15 is pretty good considering the starting QB quit just weeks before the season started.   

20-12 would have looked a little better had Adam hit his kicks. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

16 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Vinateri has made some very clutch kicks in this career, but I would not refer to him as the GOAT

[coltsva]

15 hours ago, Myles said:

I think a 21-27 record is very good for what Ballard had to deal with.  

I agree that in his first 3 years, CB has had some difficult circumstances to deal with, which is why I still think he's the right guy here. All I'm saying is there will come a time in the next 3 years where the valid reasons for a .500 or below record, and not making the playoffs, will no longer be valid reasons, they will be excuses. The results on the field in terms of record, need to happen starting now, in year 4. Otherwise, CB is just another GM.

(not talking Super Bowl, talking obvious progress)

[John Hammonds]

I've not even considered Vinateri has the most overrated player on the team.  For the simple reason that he's not on the team.

[Myles]

11 minutes ago, coltsva said:

I agree that in his first 3 years, CB has had some difficult circumstances to deal with, which is why I still think he's the right guy here. All I'm saying is there will come a time in the next 3 years where the valid reasons for a .500 or below record, and not making the playoffs, will no longer be valid reasons, they will be excuses. The results on the field in terms of record, need to happen starting now, in year 4. Otherwise, CB is just another GM.

(not talking Super Bowl, talking obvious progress)

I agree and I think the current roster is very good and capable of winning 10-12 games.  

[Rayjay]

The 49th best quarterback in the NCAA with a QB rating of 143.9 (best year) - Jason Eason. (barely made the top 50).  NFL quarterbacks are rarely below 155 QB rating in NCAA.  Meaning, Eason is a project.  

 

[shasta519]

5 hours ago, Myles said:

17-15 is pretty good considering the starting QB quit just weeks before the season started.   

 

But Luck quit before the Ballard's third season...and according to many here...JB is a legit starting QB (or at the very least...the league's best backup). 

 

So...you have one of the league's top GMs with three offseasons to build a team...and a legit backup QB to step in and start...and that team wins 7 games. That's less than the 2018 team that had no Luck for half the season and bad/hurt Luck for the other half.

 

Regardless of missed kicks last season...they were the 19th ranked defense and 19th ranked offense (according to DVOA)...that is basically an average team...or a .500 record team (sort of like 17-15). Either JB was a terrible QB or the roster wasn't as strong as we hoped. I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

With Luck...the team was better than average no doubt...but they also started 1-5...before Luck started playing like an MVP and they rattled off 9 wins against the league's second easiest schedule. 

 

I am not saying Ballard hasn't done a good job building the roster...I just don't think the team results have been nearly as great...or at least not commensurate with the praise he gets. It's fine to judge him on the process...which is what nearly everyone does...but we have to recognize that the team results need to get better fast.

 

[shasta519]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

20-12 would have looked a little better had Adam hit his kicks. 

 

Even if with a few extra kicks and a couple wins...Colts probably still have similar DVOA rankings and a negative point differential. They just weren't a very good team.

[holeymoley99]

Justin Tucker IMO is the best kicker ever, Most special team player of the month awards in history, best fg % in history, 4x first team all Pro, NFL All Decade team 2010-2020 ( Unanimous selection), fastest kicker to 1,000 points. If you had one choice life on the line player has to make the kicker who isnt rolling with Tucker ?? 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 8/2/2020 at 8:13 PM, John Hammonds said:

Should I start the conspiracy theory that  Paris Campbell may already be behind the eight ball?

Try this on for size:  Every time we draft somebody from Ohio State, it all seems to go badly.  Or, at least, to just sit in the ho-hum pile.  Consider:

2003 D2 - Mike Doss Safety - 102 tackles his first year, then started to miss games.  released after 2006.

2004 D3 - Ben Hartsock Tight End - Reserve.  Played behind Marcus Pollard and Dallas Clark. released after 2005.

2007 D1 - Anthony Gonzales Receiver - Um...  Bust.  bust bust bust.

2007 D3 - Quinn Pitcock Defensive Tackle - Retired after one season, with bouts of depression and video game addiction.

2007 D5 - Roy Hall Receiver - Reserve that suffered horrific special teams injury.  Waived in 2009.

2014 D2 - Jack Mewhort Guard - Played well, but kept getting hurt.  Retired in 2018.

2017 D1 - Malik Hooker Safety - Injuries have kept him from being the ball hawk he was supposed to be.

2018 D2 - Tyquan Lewis Defensive Line - Often injured, hasn't shown much as a difference maker.

2019 D2 - Paris Campbell Receiver - Multiple injuries rookie year limited playing time and effectiveness.

Starting to see a trend hahaha

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 hours ago, holeymoley99 said:

Justin Tucker IMO is the best kicker ever, Most special team player of the month awards in history, best fg % in history, 4x first team all Pro, NFL All Decade team 2010-2020 ( Unanimous selection), fastest kicker to 1,000 points. If you had one choice life on the line player has to make the kicker who isnt rolling with Tucker ?? 

I am rolling with Vinny if I had to choose 1 kicker all-time with the game on the line. Vinny in the 2001, 2003, and 2006 playoffs made more big kicks than any kicker in NFL history. He made more big kicks in those playoffs than any kicker has in NFL history. Without him we probably don't beat the Ravens in 2006, he was 5-5 that game scoring all of our points. He also made the game winning FG in the 2001 and 2003 SB's. In 2001 that kick he made in the snow against the Raiders to send it to OT, I doubt hardly any other kicker could make that.

[WoolMagnet]

On 7/31/2020 at 3:04 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

Yes, leaving in an injured Brissett for the 2nd half as he falls apart and doing nothing about it means they didn't care. Same with Vinny. They just watched helplessly as they lost game after game. Don't use Kelly, destroy Brissett's confidence and let him look bad while probably destroying his trade value is a bad look on Reich. However, you can spin it into anything you want. That's your right. 

Seriously?

Kelly?

[holeymoley99]

I wouldnt trust Vinny with my dog's life let alone my own, you never know what Vinny you are going to get.  He's 25 all time in make which isnt awful but it is definitely not top 10 let alone #1. Many kickers  have made kicks in snow,rain, etc.. and many have made it with the game on the online, he was fortunate to be on some real good teams cant deny that and lasted a long time also cant deny but HUGE difference between 83% in career vs 90, not like comparing 89 or even 88 vs 90 but 83....no thanks 

 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/10-greatest-kickers-nfl-history

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, holeymoley99 said:

I wouldnt trust Vinny with my dog's life let alone my own, you never know what Vinny you are going to get.  He's 25 all time in make which isnt awful but it is definitely not top 10 let alone #1. Many kickers  have made kicks in snow,rain, etc.. and many have made it with the game on the online, he was fortunate to be on some real good teams cant deny that and lasted a long time also cant deny but HUGE difference between 83% in career vs 90, not like comparing 89 or even 88 vs 90 but 83....no thanks 

 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/10-greatest-kickers-nfl-history

 

You put up a list where he is #5 and then say he is not top 10? 

As far as him protecting my dog I hear he is pretty good with a rifle. 

Your post makes no sense. 

[holeymoley99]

I make perfect sense, he isnt top 10 by any means he is 25th best, I didnt make the list referenced someone who among many who had Tucker first as an example (Didnt think it was that hard to decipher sorry if anyone else didnt get it).   Sorry but any kicker in modern NFL who goes 78.6 % on PAT and 68% on Fg's during an entire season isnt kicking for anyone or animal i care about, to say otherwise is kinda insane i.m.o. and can't say ignore it but it occurred, if Tucker ever falls off like that I'd say the same BUT if and buts are facts, just saying.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

I make perfect sense, he isnt top 10 by any means he is 25th best, I didnt make the list referenced someone who among many who had Tucker first as an example (Didnt think it was that hard to decipher sorry if anyone else didnt get it).   Sorry but any kicker in modern NFL who goes 78.6 % on PAT and 68% on Fg's during an entire season isnt kicking for anyone or animal i care about, to say otherwise is kinda insane i.m.o. and can't say ignore it but it occurred, if Tucker ever falls off like that I'd say the same BUT if and buts are facts, just saying.

Why are you only going by last season?? Of course he was bad last season but he is now 47 years old. In 2006 with us he made 89.3% of his FG's and 100% of his extra points. He was also 5-5 in the playoffs at Baltimore and we won the SB. I am taking that kicker over anyone. Using last season as a gauge makes no sense. Vinny also had a few years in NE where he made over 90% of his FG's and 100% of his extra points. Using last year is nonsense.

[2006Coltsbestever]

30 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Why are you only going by last season?? Of course he was bad last season but he is now 47 years old. In 2006 with us he made 89.3% of his FG's and 100% of his extra points. He was also 5-5 in the playoffs at Baltimore and we won the SB. I am taking that kicker over anyone. Using last season as a gauge makes no sense. Vinny also had a few years in NE where he made over 90% of his FG's and 100% of his extra points. Using last year is nonsense.

To add to this he made 96.8% of his FG's and 100% of his extra points in 2014 with us. He is the GOAT and it isn't even close. Go by what he did in his prime not when he is farting dust  

[2006Coltsbestever]

Justin Tucker is an amazing kicker but he has only played 8 seasons. Lets see how he kicks in year 20 if he last that long. In 2014, that was Vinny's 19th season and his best % wise.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

55 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

I make perfect sense, he isnt top 10 by any means he is 25th best, I didnt make the list referenced someone who among many who had Tucker first as an example (Didnt think it was that hard to decipher sorry if anyone else didnt get it).   Sorry but any kicker in modern NFL who goes 78.6 % on PAT and 68% on Fg's during an entire season isnt kicking for anyone or animal i care about, to say otherwise is kinda insane i.m.o. and can't say ignore it but it occurred, if Tucker ever falls off like that I'd say the same BUT if and buts are facts, just saying.

 

If Tucker keeps it up until he is 47, and IF his stats are better than Vinny at 47, AND if he ends up with 5+ ... THEN we can talk about Tucker being the GOAT..

 

OH, and he has to make a kick more iconic, memorable, and deserving of a nickname than "the snow kick", because if you type "the snow kick" into google, guess what the first thing to pop up is?!? ...  yeah, that's right...

 

 

And guess what's second?  (say what you want about the Pagano/Grigson era, that game in Buffalo was one of the best things to ever happen in the NFL, there's nothing that compares to football games in the snow)

 

 

Until then... Tucker can be what Vanderjagt was during his Colts career... "the most accurate kicker in NFL history"...

[holeymoley99]

In Vinny's career has been his best year was still only 93.9 % and only went over 90% 3 seasons....Tucker's best season 97.4 % and over 90% 5 seasons already so even when we remove Vinny' worst years (which as a body of work doesnt make any sense) even at his best he pales in comparison. Most likable you can argue, longest tenured yep, greatest not by a long shot not even close in all honesty. 

 

Tucker already 4X 1st team All Pro -  Viny 3X and Vanderjagt 1X 

Tucker has won a Super Bowl, Vanderjagt never has

Tucker All Decade team, Vanderjagt never was

Tucker #1 all time F.G. %, Vandy #10, Vinny #25

 

None of this above is opinion just fact

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 hours ago, holeymoley99 said:

In Vinny's career has been his best year was still only 93.9 % and only went over 90% 3 seasons....Tucker's best season 97.4 % and over 90% 5 seasons already so even when we remove Vinny' worst years (which as a body of work doesnt make any sense) even at his best he pales in comparison. Most likable you can argue, longest tenured yep, greatest not by a long shot not even close in all honesty. 

 

Tucker already 4X 1st team All Pro -  Viny 3X and Vanderjagt 1X 

Tucker has won a Super Bowl, Vanderjagt never has

Tucker All Decade team, Vanderjagt never was

Tucker #1 all time F.G. %, Vandy #10, Vinny #25

 

None of this above is opinion just fact

You left out Vinny's 2014 season where he was 96.8% on FG's and 100% on extra points. That was in year 19. All I am saying is Justin Tucker hasn't played long enough to justify saying he is the GOAT. His numbers will dwindle when he starts getting older, it happens to every player. So if Justin Tucker hypothetically has a poor season in year 15 for example are you going to just use that as an example. Vinny was bad last year but he is 47 years old and ready to retire but has been great most of his career.

[runthepost]

21 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

If Tucker keeps it up until he is 47, and IF his stats are better than Vinny at 47, AND if he ends up with 5+ ... THEN we can talk about Tucker being the GOAT..

 

OH, and he has to make a kick more iconic, memorable, and deserving of a nickname than "the snow kick", because if you type "the snow kick" into google, guess what the first thing to pop up is?!? ...  yeah, that's right...

 

 

And guess what's second?  (say what you want about the Pagano/Grigson era, that game in Buffalo was one of the best things to ever happen in the NFL, there's nothing that compares to football games in the snow)

 

 

Until then... Tucker can be what Vanderjagt was during his Colts career... "the most accurate kicker in NFL history"...

Probably would of been easier to go for 2 instead of that kick

[Freenyfan102]

Hooker

[holeymoley99]

I would absolutely use any bad year Tucker has when looking at his entire career, you have to when being objective.....Jim Brown was better then E.Smith but played many fewer games and seasons why is longevity only a kicker requirement ? Is George Blanda better than Tucker too ?  When asked Billcheck didnt say Vinny nor Gostkowski two players he knows better than anyone he said Tucker......hmmm

[Myles]

Tucker just hasn't played long enough to be considered the greatest of all time.  He is on track though.  

[holeymoley99]

How many games is enough though, Jim Brown is considered best rb of all time by most and played 118 games, Tucker is at 128 and counting. Wondering if games played is different by position in people's minds ? Do we simply write off bad seasons like they never happen ?

[Lucky Colts Fan]

On 8/5/2020 at 9:51 AM, holeymoley99 said:

None of this above is opinion just fact

 

You can use whatever facts you want to support your opinion, just like I can use whatever I want to support mine.

 

Vinny doesn't have any bad kicks with nicknames like "Wide Right" that lost a SB.  But he does have good kicks with nicknames like "The Snow Kick".

 

Tucker doesn't have ANY kicks with nicknames because his kicks aren't really that memorable.  They're just routine.  Kinda like Vanderjagts were.  Vinny is an icon in NFL history.  You can't say that about Tucker right now.

[PrincetonTiger]

@Lucky Colts Fan

  You got it right AV is one a few ICONs of NFL Kickers