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3 minutes ago, Myles said:

I can see that.   The choice just might be hard if Rodgers was still playing like himself and Carr was looking for a huge contract.  

 

Maybe I have trouble not thinking of Derek's brother as well.  David had a bad career.

I've just never liked Rodgers to be honest. He's good no doubt, but just doesn't resonate for one reason or another. Probably his personality lol. He'll likely want a boatload, whereas I think Carr will be a better value. And frankly I'd prefer a 5ish year deal with Carr to a 2 year aging Rodgers. 

 

Yup, David was not near as good IMO. I first really noticed Derek in 2016. Had an associate who was a Raiders fan, and we talked football a good deal that year. I also remember him having a really good game, beating us late in 2016. I think he threw 3 or 4 TDs. The ate us up that game.

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On 8/19/2020 at 3:34 PM, EastStreet said:

I've just never liked Rodgers to be honest. He's good no doubt, but just doesn't resonate for one reason or another. Probably his personality lol. He'll likely want a boatload, whereas I think Carr will be a better value. And frankly I'd prefer a 5ish year deal with Carr to a 2 year aging Rodgers. 

 

Yup, David was not near as good IMO. I first really noticed Derek in 2016. Had an associate who was a Raiders fan, and we talked football a good deal that year. I also remember him having a really good game, beating us late in 2016. I think he threw 3 or 4 TDs. The ate us up that game.

Rodgers has never had a 1st round pick on offence. Let that sink in. Rodgers is at least top 3 in terms of pure qb talent. I would say Rodgers, Favre, Elway. and Marino were the best in terms of pure physical qb talent. I truly beleive these 4 would have succeeded under any system under any coach.  I really cant say that about the Montanas,Bradys....hell even the Mannings of the world. Oh and David Carr. Well he got the s..t kicked out of him in his 1st 3 years. No qb could have survived that punishment  and not have been scarred for life.

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On 8/19/2020 at 3:34 PM, EastStreet said:

I've just never liked Rodgers to be honest. He's good no doubt, but just doesn't resonate for one reason or another. Probably his personality lol. He'll likely want a boatload, whereas I think Carr will be a better value. And frankly I'd prefer a 5ish year deal with Carr to a 2 year aging Rodgers. 

 

Yup, David was not near as good IMO. I first really noticed Derek in 2016. Had an associate who was a Raiders fan, and we talked football a good deal that year. I also remember him having a really good game, beating us late in 2016. I think he threw 3 or 4 TDs. The ate us up that game.

Oh and Derek.  Hes soft. Gruden is doing every mind trick in the book to toughen him up. What does Derek do?Goes on twitter and whines  or his feelings get hurt. No thanks

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10 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Rodgers has never had a 1st round pick on offence. Let that sink in. Rodgers is at least top 3 in terms of pure qb talent. I would say Rodgers, Favre, Elway. and Marino were the best in terms of pure physical qb talent. I truly beleive these 4 would have succeeded under any system under any coach.  I really cant say that about the Montanas,Bradys....hell even the Mannings of the world. Oh and David Carr. Well he got the s..t kicked out of him in his 1st 3 years. No qb could have survived that punishment  and not have been scarred for life.

Meh. 1st round O skill players are over rated unless they're QBs. Since Luck, we've only had one 1st round O skill player, and that was a bad pick (Dorsett). None of our skill position starters (WR, TE, RB) are first rounders. Our best (TY) is a third rounder. 2nd round is a great place for WRs, and 2nd-4th a good place for RBs.

 

Since Rodgers was drafted, he's had Adans, Jennings, and Nelson as #1 WRs, which all three have been very good when healthy. I believe all 3 were 2nd rounders. Cobb who was also a 2nd rounder did very well there as well. James Jones was also an early round pick and was a very solid as the #2. Driver was a late round pick but had 5+ 1000 yard receiving years for AR. At RB, Grant, Lacy, and Jones have all put up some great numbers when healthy over the last 15 years.

 

In short, not going to feel sorry for Rodgers. I do agree he got a raw deal with GB taking Love in the first, and the last 5 years they could have given him more help in the draft, but overall it's not been a horrible 15 years for Rodgers. They gave him Dillon this year in the 2nd. 

7 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Oh and Derek.  Hes soft. Gruden is doing every mind trick in the book to toughen him up. What does Derek do?Goes on twitter and whines  or his feelings get hurt. No thanks

Carr has played on a bad team with a bad supporting cast for his entire career. If anyone is overrated it's Gruden. He won the SB with Dungy's team. Aside from that, he's been pretty meh. 2 WC exits in the rest of his years in TB. The guy is barely over .500.

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9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Meh. 1st round O skill players are over rated unless they're QBs. Since Luck, we've only had one 1st round O skill player, and that was a bad pick (Dorsett). None of our skill position starters (WR, TE, RB) are first rounders. Our best (TY) is a third rounder. 2nd round is a great place for WRs, and 2nd-4th a good place for RBs.

 

Since Rodgers was drafted, he's had Adans, Jennings, and Nelson as #1 WRs, which all three have been very good when healthy. I believe all 3 were 2nd rounders. Cobb who was also a 2nd rounder did very well there as well. James Jones was also an early round pick and was a very solid as the #2. Driver was a late round pick but had 5+ 1000 yard receiving years for AR. At RB, Grant, Lacy, and Jones have all put up some great numbers when healthy over the last 15 years.

 

In short, not going to feel sorry for Rodgers. I do agree he got a raw deal with GB taking Love in the first, and the last 5 years they could have given him more help in the draft, but overall it's not been a horrible 15 years for Rodgers. They gave him Dillon this year in the 2nd. 

Carr has played on a bad team with a bad supporting cast for his entire career. If anyone is overrated it's Gruden. He won the SB with Dungy's team. Aside from that, he's been pretty meh. 2 WC exits in the rest of his years in TB. The guy is barely over .500.

Agreed on Gruden. As great ad Manning was, Polian continually loaded their offence with 1st rounders

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12 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Agreed on Gruden. As great ad Manning was, Polian continually loaded their offence with 1st rounders

I agree Polian helped Manning in a lot of ways, but he also wasn't the greatest in other areas. I'm thankful for the 1 SB, but a guy like Manning should have had more, and would have had more with a more well rounded team. IMO, had Polian helped the D just a bit more, and O skill a bit less, we probably have another SB or two.

 

It's in the past, so doesn't matter lol. On Gruden, I hope he gets rid of Carr, get's "his" QB, and fails miserably calling one hundred “Spider 2 Y Banana” plays a game lol. 

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14 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I agree Polian helped Manning in a lot of ways, but he also wasn't the greatest in other areas. I'm thankful for the 1 SB, but a guy like Manning should have had more, and would have had more with a more well rounded team. IMO, had Polian helped the D just a bit more, and O skill a bit less, we probably have another SB or two.

 

It's in the past, so doesn't matter lol. On Gruden, I hope he gets rid of Carr, get's "his" QB, and fails miserably calling one hundred “Spider 2 Y Banana” plays a game lol. 

I agree with u to some extent. However, if u went back to all the Colts losses in the play offs, it was the offence that struggled in the Manning years. U cant  be a top 5 offence continually and then lay an egg in thr playoffs. And remember, most of the assets were put into the ofence and they did not live up to expectations. I think Manning is thegreatest regular season qb. However he was an average even below average play off qb. I know Colt fans don't like it bit he cannot be considered the greatest because of  his  playoff performances. 

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9 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I agree with u to some extent. However, if u went back to all the Colts losses in the play offs, it was the offence that struggled in the Manning years. U cant  be a top 5 offence continually and then lay an egg in thr playoffs. And remember, most of the assets were put into the ofence and they did not live up to expectations. I think Manning is thegreatest regular season qb. However he was an average even below average play off qb. I know Colt fans don't like it bit he cannot be considered the greatest because of  his  playoff performances. 

I think it's a bit more nuanced. I've looked at our playoff losses before in detail, and it wasn't just because Manning laid eggs. We did run into a lot of good Ds that held Manning, but in those games our D was clearly outplayed by their D, and our running game in several of those games was mediocre to bad. And I've seen many interviews talking about Manning, and opposing teams more or less said "when you play Indy, you have to stop or limit Manning". Good or bad, he was the clear identity of this team. NE was know for both O and D, Pitt for both O and D, etc. We were just known as a passing team.

 

 

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20 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I think it's a bit more nuanced. I've looked at our playoff losses before in detail, and it wasn't just because Manning laid eggs. We did run into a lot of good Ds that held Manning, but in those games our D was clearly outplayed by their D, and our running game in several of those games was mediocre to bad. And I've seen many interviews talking about Manning, and opposing teams more or less said "when you play Indy, you have to stop or limit Manning". Good or bad, he was the clear identity of this team. NE was know for both O and D, Pitt for both O and D, etc. We were just known as a passing team.

 

 

Our D may have been out played, but  I dont think they were.  They played to their talent level. Remeber all the high picks that surrounded Payton. I actually think the D played well during the Manning years when u consider everything. Manning was MVP 5 times. Their offence was probably rated in the top 5 most of his years. No matter how u slice it, Manning and the offence under performed pretty well every year. The year they win the Superbowl, they ran the ball. 

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Our D may have been out played, but  I dont think they were.  They played to their talent level. Remeber all the high picks that surrounded Payton. I actually think the D played well during the Manning years when u consider everything. Manning was MVP 5 times. Their offence was probably rated in the top 5 most of his years. No matter how u slice it, Manning and the offence under performed pretty well every year. The year they win the Superbowl, they ran the ball. 

During the Manning era, our D was very up and down, and overall very average, or below the median. We had two top 10 Ds, and three bottom 5 Ds. The average ranking over those years was 18th which is slightly below the AVG.

 

In 2007, which was the best year for our D (and a year that we were SB favorites), we lost to SD in the playoffs. One very costly issue was Harrison fumbling. Another was the D giving up a game winning TD to Billy Volek (after Rivers was knocked out of the game) late in the 4th. Harrison was also pretty gimpy all game (IIRC, it was his first game back from injury). And we only had like 50 yards rushing. Manning wasn't perfect, but he threw for 400+ yards, and we had the lead late in the 4th. If our D can't stop a guy like Volek, not sure what to say. Pretty sure Freeny was injured and out for that game as well.

 

Anyway, it's a great example of a loss that I don't pin on Manning, and it was a year our D was good (at least regular season), and we were favored to win the SB.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

During the Manning era, our D was very up and down, and overall very average, or below the median. We had two top 10 Ds, and three bottom 5 Ds. The average ranking over those years was 18th which is slightly below the AVG.

 

In 2007, which was the best year for our D (and a year that we were SB favorites), we lost to SD in the playoffs. One very costly issue was Harrison fumbling. Another was the D giving up a game winning TD to Billy Volek (after Rivers was knocked out of the game) late in the 4th. Harrison was also pretty gimpy all game (IIRC, it was his first game back from injury). And we only had like 50 yards rushing. Manning wasn't perfect, but he threw for 400+ yards, and we had the lead late in the 4th. If our D can't stop a guy like Volek, not sure what to say. Pretty sure Freeny was injured and out for that game as well.

 

Anyway, it's a great example of a loss that I don't pin on Manning, and it was a year our D was good (at least regular season), and we were favored to win the SB.

All being said.  I think Manning has earned  his play off performance record of wins and losses.  In all the years I watched Manning in the playoffs.  I never came away after a game and said wow. I guess u could say the Chiefs game where they never punted. The Chiefs were horrid on D that year.

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I can recall a couple of playoff loses directly related to putrid special teams play. 

I can't remember exactly where I read it but there were quite a few playoff losses where Manning had a lead in the 4th quarter and the defense couldn't hold. A couple of Vanderjagt missed field goals also cost a couple of playoff losses. 

In the S.D. playoff loss we were down 17-0 before Manning touched the ball. 

 

That is what happens when the FO jumps on one players back and rides him into the ground. 

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My predictions for 2021 QB carousel:

1- Resigns Rivers for another year

2- Reich signs Nick Foles (he is released by the Bears)

3- We will draft another QB, who the Colts will annoint as our future QB, and play behind Rivers, JB. Eason is the contigent QB in case JB wants to leave.

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