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Rivers vs Luck

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8 hours ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

 The Chargers' Super Bowl window was from 2006 to 2008, but they never capitalized due to crucial fumbles, missed FGs, and injuries in the playoffs.  Since then, Rivers has not had a team around him capable of winning a SB (bad OL, bad running game, bad defense, and bad coaches).

 

 

The portion in bold describes what Luck has dealt with most of his career. Only recently (2018 season) did he have a good run game, good O-line, and good coaching, but unfortunately it was too late.

 

We never got to see the best that Luck could have become and it would have far surpassed Rivers, IMO.

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Just now, Flash7 said:

The portion in bold describes what Luck has dealt with most of his career. Only recently (2018 season) did he have a good run game, good O-line, and good coaching, but unfortunately it was too late.

 

We never got to see the best that Luck could have become and it would have far surpassed Rivers, IMO.

I did a thread comparing all their stats. They're very similar in just about all the #s. Given they both experienced a lot of ups and downs with supporting casts, not sure how you can project that Rivers would have far surpassed Rivers. 

 

Here's a cut from that thread. I've linked the thread too if interested.

Quote

 

Stat Name                          Luck                 Rivers
Pro Years                            7                      16
Years as QB1                      7                      14
Reg Sea Injury Games      26 (23%)          0 (0%)
Pro Bowls                           4                       8
Reg Sea Rec (win%)          53-33 (62%)    123-101 (55%)
Playoff Rec (win%)            4-4 (50%)        5-6 (45%)
Completion %                    60.8%               64.7% 
Atts/Game Started             38.3                  33.9  
TD%                                    5.2%                  5.2%
INT%                                   2.5%                  2.6%
Fumbles (Fum/Game)      44 (0.51)          109 (0.48)
Yards/Game                        275.2                 260
Yards/Attempt                   7.2                     7.8
AY/A                                     7.1                      7.7
NY/A                                    6.51                   7.04
ANY/A                                  6.42                   6.92
Yards/Completion              11.8                  12.1
Passer Rating                     89.5                   95.1
Sack %                                 5.0%                   5.5%

 

Luck Awards
4× Pro Bowl (2012–2014, 2018)
NFL Comeback Player of the Year (2018)
NFL passing touchdowns leader (2014)

 

Rivers Awards
8× Pro Bowl (2006, 2009–2011, 2013, 2016–2018)
NFL Comeback Player of the Year (2013)
NFL completion percentage leader (2013)
NFL passing yards leader (2010)
NFL passing touchdowns leader (2008)
NFL passer rating leader (2008)

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

To you both... A quick scan of PBs below. You can disagree with PB selection or whatever, but all players had the same opportunity. Notice the top 3 were ALL playing (and 2 are still playing) during his span. The top 2 were AFC guys.

 

Manning x14

Brady x14

Brees x13

Favre x11

Unitas x10

Marino x9

Moon x9

Tarkenton x9

Elway x9

 

So only 9 QBs have more PBs. I'd also say that growing up with Manning, Brady, and Brees (the top 3) certainly had an impact on his stats position and awards. And not getting a PB in 2008 when he led the league in TDs and passer rating was criminal.  Wouldn't be shocked to see him get one this year, and be tied for 5th all time.

 

Shouldn't sniff? Come on man. He's 6th right now in career yards, and will more than likely be 5th by end of year. He's the same on career passing TDs, and will be 5th after this year with only 23 TDs IIRC. He's top 10 career passer rating, sitting right behind Peyton. If you look at career stats, he's top 10 in most categories from yards to TDs to Passer Rating, and even in AVGs like ANY/A, which is an incredibly important indicator/stat.

 

Never a top 4 in any season, Wut? What's your criteria? If you just want to look at yards, he was top 4 in 2019, 2017, 2015, 2010, and was 5th an additional three years. And as I said above, will likely be 5th all time by end of year.

 

Yup. It's a lot to do with timing. Going through you're career with 3 of the top guys ever (in a lot of stats) is pretty challenging. Rivers is far from GOAT, but saying things like he shouldn't sniff the hall, is way harsh given his numbers. Heck, I've never been a fan of his until now, but always recognized his standing. It's pretty hard not to give a nod when someone is in the career top 10 in multiple stat/award areas.

I don't give any props for pro bowls myself.   It's always more of a popularity contest.  6 QB's make it and that ends up increasing each year.   Brady was selected to go 14 times and only went twice meaning an alternate was selected (probably Rivers a couple times).  

 

I think Rivers has been a very good QB throughout his career.  I just would like to see only the truly greats get in the HOF.   The stats are nice, but era's are always hard to compare against each other.   Some of your same arguments are going to be made when Stafford is getting into the HOF.    I will be against him going in as well.   I don't think Stafford is as good as Rivers, but his stats will be close at the end of his career.  

 

My thought that Rivers was never a top 4 QB is mostly based off of eye test and football fans opinions.   His stats, in some seasons, would put him in the top few QB's of the season, no denying that.  However, I don't know that there was any season where football fans or experts would want Rivers on their team before 4-5 other QB's.  

 

But this is really just opinions, none of us are right or wrong.   It's just up to how people feel about the inclusiveness of the HOF.   Currently the HOF is a bit loose, but it is what it is.   

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16 minutes ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

Sorry to take this a little off topic, but a HOF discussion seems to have been started here.

 

This upcoming season, Rivers will most likely move into 5th place all time in both passing TDs and passing yards.  For those saying he isn't a HOFer, take that ranking into perspective across the NFL as well as other American sports.

NFL:
5th most rushing TDs - Walter Payton

5th most rushing yards - Adrian Peterson

5th most receiving TDs - Marvin Harrison

5th most receiving yards - Isaac Bruce

 

NBA:

5th most points scored - Michael Jordan

5th most rebounds - Moses Malone

5th most assists - Magic Johnson

 

MLB:

5th most HRs - Willie Mays

5th highest batting average - Ed Delahanty

5th most strikeouts - Bert Blyleven

 

 

All of the above players are in their sport's respective HOF, without any arguments.  The only exception is Adrian Peterson, because he is not eligible yet.

and you'll feel the same when Stafford is up there?

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2 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't give any props for pro bowls myself.   It's always more of a popularity contest.  6 QB's make it and that ends up increasing each year.   Brady was selected to go 14 times and only went twice meaning an alternate was selected (probably Rivers a couple times).  

 

I think Rivers has been a very good QB throughout his career.  I just would like to see only the truly greats get in the HOF.   The stats are nice, but era's are always hard to compare against each other.   Some of your same arguments are going to be made when Stafford is getting into the HOF.    I will be against him going in as well.   I don't think Stafford is as good as Rivers, but his stats will be close at the end of his career.  

 

My thought that Rivers was never a top 4 QB is mostly based off of eye test and football fans opinions.   His stats, in some seasons, would put him in the top few QB's of the season, no denying that.  However, I don't know that there was any season where football fans or experts would want Rivers on their team before 4-5 other QB's.  

 

But this is really just opinions, none of us are right or wrong.   It's just up to how people feel about the inclusiveness of the HOF.   Currently the HOF is a bit loose, but it is what it is.   

You're right in that it's all opinion. But even if you don't care about PBs, it's pretty hard to not include someone that will end up being top 5 in both yards and TDs all time. Sure, different eras, but if you're against Rivers, there are a ton of other guys in the hall with lesser resumes.

 

It's going to be interesting to watch him this year, and maybe next. Yes he's older, but he's likely going to have the best surrounding cast he's had in over a decade. IMO, he may not be top 5 in pure stats, but I'd bet he sets a new personal best for QBR.

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2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I did a thread comparing all their stats. They're very similar in just about all the #s. Given they both experienced a lot of ups and downs with supporting casts, not sure how you can project that Rivers would have far surpassed Rivers. 

 

Here's a cut from that thread. I've linked the thread too if interested.

 

 

Good stuff with the analysis. I read it when it was initially posted.

 

My argument at it's most rudimentary form would be that Rivers has seen ups and downs, while Luck has only seen downs.

 

We've not seen Luck fully healthy, with a good run game, good O-line, and good coaching, while Rivers has had those things.

 

In 2018, we saw Luck come back from a serious shoulder injury. He went 1-5 or 1-6 to start the season? (I forgot exactly) but it illustrates the fact that he was working through his injury that season. Once his shoulder felt better, he went on a tear. 

 

It really sucks that when Luck was healthy, the Colts had a horrible O-line, no run game, and sub-par coaching. He took a beating. Finally, Ballard changed things around, but it was too late. 

 

We never saw Luck fully healthy, with a good O-line, good run game, and good defense. Maybe just a glimpse in 2018, but never a full season. That's why I think it's fair to project that Luck would surpass Rivers.

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5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

You're right in that it's all opinion. But even if you don't care about PBs, it's pretty hard to not include someone that will end up being top 5 in both yards and TDs all time. Sure, different eras, but if you're against Rivers, there are a ton of other guys in the hall with lesser resumes.

 

It's going to be interesting to watch him this year, and maybe next. Yes he's older, but he's likely going to have the best surrounding cast he's had in over a decade. IMO, he may not be top 5 in pure stats, but I'd bet he sets a new personal best for QBR.

I agree that there are many in the HOF with lesser stats.   No argument from me.   I don't think past mistakes should allow for more mistakes.

Like I said, I think he will get in.   I just would prefer only the cream of the crop gets in.  

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9 minutes ago, Myles said:

and you'll feel the same when Stafford is up there?

Stafford is a good QB, playing for a bad franchise. 

 

You can argue with his w/l record, but not with a lot of his stats. He's one of the QBs I've felt sorry for most in the last decade lol. 

 

I'd love to see him get a shot with another team.

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On 6/22/2020 at 7:27 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Everyone here knows I'm a Luck fan.   It was clear the day I arrived in May of 2012.   And I made it very clear that Andrew Luck was never EVER going to be as good as Peyton Manning.  And that he didn't have to be for the Colts to be good and even win a Super Bowl with Luck as the QB.  

 

But just because Manning and Rivers are similar in size and playing style and lack of athletic ability doesn't mean that Rivers is as good as Manning (he's not) or that Rivers is better than Luck (he's not, IMO.)      Of course, your mileage may vary....

 

I never said Rivers was better than Luck.  I can’t disagree with what you said but I do believe that Rivers will fit in.  I will admit that I am no fan of Luck.

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2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Stafford is a good QB, playing for a bad franchise. 

 

You can argue with his w/l record, but not with a lot of his stats. He's one of the QBs I've felt sorry for most in the last decade lol. 

 

I'd love to see him get a shot with another team.

But if things go as they have for him, you are in favor of him being in the HOF?

Heck, I don't think football experts would claim that he was a top 6 QB in the league during his time.

But again, that is only my opinion.   I guess if I would just accept that the selection process is going to stay loose, the arguments will be more about if players like Stafford should be first ballot.

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16 minutes ago, Myles said:

and you'll feel the same when Stafford is up there?

 

Stafford is currently 19th in TDs and 18th in yards.  IF he winds up 5th all time in both stats (you seem to be claiming that is guaranteed to happen...pretty bold), then yes, he will likely be a HOFer.

Keep in mind Rivers also has a better career completion %, TD/INT ratio, Y/A, and passer rating.  He also has 8 pro bowls vs Stafford's 1 pro bowl.  Stafford has never led the league in any significant passing stat, aside from leading in completions and attempts in 2012.  Stafford is also 0-3 in the playoffs (wins are a team stat, but many of you seem to think it's important).

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17 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Good stuff with the analysis. I read it when it was initially posted.

 

My argument at it's most rudimentary form would be that Rivers has seen ups and downs, while Luck has only seen downs.

 

We've not seen Luck fully healthy, with a good run game, good O-line, and good coaching, while Rivers has had those things.

 

In 2018, we saw Luck come back from a serious shoulder injury. He went 1-5 or 1-6 to start the season? (I forgot exactly) but it illustrates the fact that he was working through his injury that season. Once his shoulder felt better, he went on a tear. 

 

It really sucks that when Luck was healthy, the Colts had a horrible O-line, no run game, and sub-par coaching. He took a beating. Finally, Ballard changed things around, but it was too late. 

 

We never saw Luck fully healthy, with a good O-line, good run game, and good defense. Maybe just a glimpse in 2018, but never a full season. That's why I think it's fair to project that Luck would surpass Rivers.

 

I think you are vastly overestimating the teams Rivers has been on.  His window for a Super Bowl was 2006-2008, and like I previously stated in this thread, the playoff runs in those years were ended by fumbles, missed FGs, and injuries (LT and Gates out, while Rivers played on a torn ACL against an undefeated Patriots team).  Since that window, Rivers has not had a legitimate SB-caliber team around him.

As for Luck, you're stating that he was in the league for 6 seasons but never saw any "ups".  And that is your argument for projecting that Luck *would* have ended up better than Rivers.  Pretty weak argument in my honest opinion.

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7 minutes ago, Myles said:

But if things go as they have for him, you are in favor of him being in the HOF?

Heck, I don't think football experts would claim that he was a top 6 QB in the league during his time.

But again, that is only my opinion.   I guess if I would just accept that the selection process is going to stay loose, the arguments will be more about if players like Stafford should be first ballot.

I'm for consistency in selection criteria. I don't necessarily have to agree with all selections, but I do want fairness and consistency. And I'm not all about W/Ls.

 

On Stafford, there were several years were he was absolutely top 5 in most stat categories, despite playing for some very awful teams. He's #2 all time right now for yard/game. If he gets up in the top 5 for career yards and TDs, I'd have no problem with him getting in.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

The portion in bold describes what Luck has dealt with most of his career. Only recently (2018 season) did he have a good run game, good O-line, and good coaching, but unfortunately it was too late.

 

We never got to see the best that Luck could have become and it would have far surpassed Rivers, IMO.

So both QBs spent most of their careers on bad teams.  Rivers' average numbers are slightly better, and his total numbers are much better because he's been able to play (without ever missing a game) for much longer.  I don't see how that equates to meaning that Luck "would have far surpassed Rivers".

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12 minutes ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

 

Stafford is currently 19th in TDs and 18th in yards.  IF he winds up 5th all time in both stats (you seem to be claiming that is guaranteed to happen...pretty bold), then yes, he will likely be a HOFer.

Keep in mind Rivers also has a better career completion %, TD/INT ratio, Y/A, and passer rating.  He also has 8 pro bowls vs Stafford's 1 pro bowl.  Stafford has never led the league in any significant passing stat, aside from leading in completions and attempts in 2012.  Stafford is also 0-3 in the playoffs (wins are a team stat, but many of you seem to think it's important).

Stafford is only 32 and is 18th in passing yards all time.  He is under 16,000 yards from the 7th spot.  That isn't too bold to think he'll get there.  

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28 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Good stuff with the analysis. I read it when it was initially posted.

 

My argument at it's most rudimentary form would be that Rivers has seen ups and downs, while Luck has only seen downs.

 

We've not seen Luck fully healthy, with a good run game, good O-line, and good coaching, while Rivers has had those things.

 

In 2018, we saw Luck come back from a serious shoulder injury. He went 1-5 or 1-6 to start the season? (I forgot exactly) but it illustrates the fact that he was working through his injury that season. Once his shoulder felt better, he went on a tear. 

 

It really sucks that when Luck was healthy, the Colts had a horrible O-line, no run game, and sub-par coaching. He took a beating. Finally, Ballard changed things around, but it was too late. 

 

We never saw Luck fully healthy, with a good O-line, good run game, and good defense. Maybe just a glimpse in 2018, but never a full season. That's why I think it's fair to project that Luck would surpass Rivers.

 

I disagree Luck has seen only downs. And IMO, he just didn't stick around long enough to see some of the ups. And Indy didn't always have a bad OL while Luck was playing. Folks like to think Luck's OLs were always bad, but that isn't accurate. I agree we didn't have great rushing games though. But it's not for lack of trying. We used a first on Brown (never liked that pick), traded a 1st round pick for Richardson (I really hated that), and then brought in Gore (which I liked). But truth is, we were a pass first team anyway with Luck scheme wise.

 

I'd also say that if Luck had a good run game, and played in a more balanced scheme, his passing #s would have been lower.

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Hall of Fame is now more like a Hall of Not Being Crappy.

 

As long as you have a long career and get stats, then you're good to go in the Hall of Fame.

 

Rivers should get in just based on everyone else that has been allowed in.  They probably should just come up with another Hall of Real Fame for the people that are actually GOATs.

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I don't even understand why it is relevant to us, that we never got to see the "best of" Luck?

 

It really doesn't matter. Bottom line is Luck is gone, he isn't coming back. So, yes, we actually did see the "best of" Luck. There's nothing left to see.

 

He held on to the ball to long. He didn't protect himself, played reckless then couldn't deal with the injury issues that were mostly self imposed. Snowboarding, hit in Denver game where he lacerated kidney, was his fault to. Tried to get more out of the play than was needed. Should of went down and never even got hit. That was his mentality though. 

 

Rivers is here, he has had a great career while missing 0 games. Playing for an organization the Mannings forced their way out of. 

 

Rivers is a HoF player, as is Ben and Eli. Whether whoever has stated they shouldn't be. Somehow longevity is a bad thing?

 

 

So Luck vs Rivers, I'm taking Rivers because he is playing, had a lot better career and managed to keep himself healthy. 

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3 hours ago, luvdacolts67 said:

I never said Rivers was better than Luck.  I can’t disagree with what you said but I do believe that Rivers will fit in.  I will admit that I am no fan of Luck.

Really?   You’re not a fan of Luck?   


Is it because of the early retirement?   The injuries?    Or were you never a fan of Luck?    Just asking. 

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Getting into the Hall is a lot about eye test too. I don't think anyone believes that Matt Stafford is a better QB than Philip Rivers all-time. 

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12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Getting into the Hall is a lot about eye test too. I don't think anyone believes that Matt Stafford is a better QB than Philip Rivers all-time. 

I agree, but if he is top 6 or 7 in all time passing yards, he'll get in.  

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2 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree, but if he is top 6 or 7 in all time passing yards, he'll get in.  

Probably but I am not sure that is a guarantee because he is 0-3 in the playoffs. Wins are looked at besides stats. Now if he leads his team to an NFC Title Game that would help. Rivers made the AFC Title Game in 2007.

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Likes Myles has stated, my opinion is the HoF should be reserved for the cream of the crop. Not players who were consistently good to occasionally great over a long career. Rivers is a prime Hall of Very Good player in my opinion. Guys like Peyton and Brady, that's the criteria the HoF should set for itself. Consistently the absolute best at their position for an extended time. 

 

There really is no point is debating this topic though. Its all just opinions. 

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On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 2:21 PM, Calmack said:

Likes Myles has stated, my opinion is the HoF should be reserved for the cream of the crop. Not players who were consistently good to occasionally great over a long career. Rivers is a prime Hall of Very Good player in my opinion. Guys like Peyton and Brady, that's the criteria the HoF should set for itself. Consistently the absolute best at their position for an extended time. 

 

There really is no point is debating this topic though. Its all just opinions. 

So by that criteria guys like Dan Fouts, Dan Marino or Joe Namath do not belong in the HOF?

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On 6/25/2020 at 10:34 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Really?   You’re not a fan of Luck?   


Is it because of the early retirement?   The injuries?    Or were you never a fan of Luck?    Just asking. 

The poster didn't give you an answer you asked as of 4 days later, but I share the same sentiment of not being a fan of Luck and I'll tell you why.

 

1.) The early retirement: It wasn't just about retiring early that turned me off to him, it's the timing of it. He not only screwed the fans, but Irsay, Ballard, Reich, and every player in that locker room.

 

2.) His lack of passion for the game: I was one of the few posters who were saying Luck was going to retire early. I got bashed for that. He didn't even give Ballard a chance with a top O-Line, he just quit on the team. However, I believe he would have done so a couple years later to pursue other interests and his new family anyway without the injuries. He just didn't care that much about football.

 

3.) I hated his personality: Bottom line, he was too much of a nice guy. At least in the cameras, he never showed much passion, emotion, or held anyone accountable. He seemed like a very poor leader. I loved how Peyton fired up the team and lead them to victory. Rivers does the same. These are the personalities I want with my QB and I couldn't take Luck very seriously. He was just the butt of many jokes like the chewbacca beard, the book club nerd, and the guy who said good job to everyone who sacked him. Never known as a winner.

 

4.) He couldn't win a big game: Luck always faltered in big games. He couldn't beat the Patriots, the Steelers, the Chiefs when they had Mahomes, and I doubt he would of beaten the Ravens with Lamar either. He struggled early in games (even against bad teams), and was a turnover machine. He came back in games and that was great, but he was the one who was responsible for those defecits. 

 

5.) He wasn't football smart/never improved from when he got drafted: Andrew is a brilliant person as far as book smarts go, but he never got any better as his career went on from when he got drafted in 2012. He didn't seem to take the game seriously as this goes with the lack of passion reason. Peyton studied hard, got better, made football his life. Luck didn't do that. I don't believe he cared enough about football to care whether he was the best. To me, it was embarrasing that he didn't take the game serious and struggled for it, yet everyone here always compared him to Peyton while he played. 

 

6.) Wasted time watching: This goes with number 1 as far as early retirement, but he just wasted 7 years of my football life. We accomplished nothing, he quit on us before 30 years old, and now I'm 7 years older in real life as well where I could of spent that time doing other things on Sunday with family and friends. I wouldn't of missed any Luck moment if it magically never happened. The bad taste in my mouth he left throughout his career made me completely dislike him by the time he retired.

 

I idolized Peyton as a child and based my life around his actions. He was a top 3 QB of all-time. Luck treated the game like a hobby, like something he was going to drop as soon as he got bored of it. We all fell for it. Hook, line and sinker. Andrew Luck, wasted potential.

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On 6/22/2020 at 10:08 PM, Calmack said:

Rivers shouldn't sniff the hall imo. No super bowl appearances, no MVPs, no all-pros, and never maintained top 5 QB status for more than a year or two. There were always QBs better than him (and more successful) during his prime that I don't think simply playing long enough to rack up the stats merits HoF consideration. 

 

On 6/23/2020 at 9:21 AM, Myles said:

I am in complete agreement with you.  

I think he will get into the HOF because they are not very strict in their selections.

I don't think he should be in it though.   He was never a top 4 QB in any of his seasons.   Maybe not top 5.   I think a Hall of Famer should have been one of the top 3 at their position for at least a couple years.   

 

I wonder if you guys will change your mind after he wins a Super Bowl with OUR Colts this year ... :woah:

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12 minutes ago, Dr. T said:

 

 

I wonder if you guys will change your mind after he wins a Super Bowl with OUR Colts this year ... :woah:

That is possible.  :goodluck:

Being a SuperBowl winning QB certainly would add a piece to his puzzle.   I'm not sure I would put him in still, but I wish the standards were more strict.  

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Rivers shouldn't be disqualified for the HOF just because he played in the same era as Manning and Brady. Both Manning and Brady played on much better teams and are considered two of the greatest QBs ever to play the game.

There are already QBs in the HOF that don't have near the career numbers that Rivers has.

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27 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Rivers shouldn't be disqualified for the HOF just because he played in the same era as Manning and Brady. Both Manning and Brady played on much better teams and are considered two of the greatest QBs ever to play the game.

There are already QBs in the HOF that don't have near the career numbers that Rivers has.

For that reason he will get in.   The NFL consistently puts very good players in the HOF.   I wish they wouldn't, because I'd like to see the HOF for the elite players only.  Manning and Brady.  Rivers was 2nd level or 3rd level most or all of his career.   If teams were able to draft a QB each year, Rivers would be the 5th or 6th one taken.  Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees and some years Wilson, Ryan, Mahomes, Luck, Roethlisberger, Romo, Warner, Favre or McNabb. 

 

He was a very good QB.  

But that's just my opinion.  

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12 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The poster didn't give you an answer you asked as of 4 days later, but I share the same sentiment of not being a fan of Luck and I'll tell you why.

 

1.) The early retirement: It wasn't just about retiring early that turned me off to him, it's the timing of it. He not only screwed the fans, but Irsay, Ballard, Reich, and every player in that locker room. Or conversely he did everyone a favor by leaving once he realized he wouldn't be all-in. The timing of QB1 retiring is NEVER going to be 'okay'. If he'd left after the KC playoff loss, it'd have been same story. 

 

2.) His lack of passion for the game: I was one of the few posters who were saying Luck was going to retire early. I got bashed for that. He didn't even give Ballard a chance with a top O-Line, he just quit on the team. However, I believe he would have done so a couple years later to pursue other interests and his new family anyway without the injuries. He just didn't care that much about football. What is passion for the game? Total dedication to only football and nothing else? You're basing that off your own perception, the players who played with him all said he burned with passion for the sport. You're not a credible witness here.

 

3.) I hated his personality: Bottom line, he was too much of a nice guy. At least in the cameras, he never showed much passion, emotion, or held anyone accountable. He seemed like a very poor leader. I loved how Peyton fired up the team and lead them to victory. Rivers does the same. These are the personalities I want with my QB and I couldn't take Luck very seriously. He was just the butt of many jokes like the chewbacca beard, the book club nerd, and the guy who said good job to everyone who sacked him. Never known as a winner. That's fair. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and such however Peyton was the butt of MANY jokes. You ever seen that forehead? Essentially you just were uncomfortable with the fact that your QB wasn't the stereotype. That's okay. Again all Luck's teammates said he was a superb leader. Not every leader needs to put his balls on the table and scream at the crew to get buy-in, there're different kinds of leaders. Luck was no Peyton but he wasn't Eli either. This point is laced with emotion and feeling....you miss #12 don't you? I do too.

 

4.) He couldn't win a big game: Luck always faltered in big games. He couldn't beat the Patriots, the Steelers, the Chiefs when they had Mahomes, and I doubt he would of beaten the Ravens with Lamar either. He struggled early in games (even against bad teams), and was a turnover machine. He came back in games and that was great, but he was the one who was responsible for those defecits. Meh, this is rubbish. Any Colts fan who lived through Peyton getting slaughtered by opposing fans and the media simply must know better than to lay out a 'big game' argument.

 

5.) He wasn't football smart/never improved from when he got drafted: Andrew is a brilliant person as far as book smarts go, but he never got any better as his career went on from when he got drafted in 2012. He didn't seem to take the game seriously as this goes with the lack of passion reason. Peyton studied hard, got better, made football his life. Luck didn't do that. I don't believe he cared enough about football to care whether he was the best. To me, it was embarrasing that he didn't take the game serious and struggled for it, yet everyone here always compared him to Peyton while he played. You could argue that he was the same QB throughout his time with Chuck but to argue he didn't improve under Reich is some jealous ex stuff. Peyton got better, he got more careful with the football, he learned to trust his run game more, learned when to check down, etc. Luck absolutely was a different QB under Reich. Played smarter with and without the ball, was willing to check down more, was just a smarter player altogether.

 

6.) Wasted time watching: This goes with number 1 as far as early retirement, but he just wasted 7 years of my football life. We accomplished nothing, he quit on us before 30 years old, and now I'm 7 years older in real life as well where I could of spent that time doing other things on Sunday with family and friends. I wouldn't of missed any Luck moment if it magically never happened. The bad taste in my mouth he left throughout his career made me completely dislike him by the time he retired. Things happen. You don't control the world. Let it go. Don't become a man in your 50s regretting all the things you should have done at 20, embrace the lessons you learned, be glad for the happy times you had, look forward to the future. The Luck years were great. He made Indy not miss Peyton too much, that was a Herculean ask and the goofball did it. You could have easily had Curtis Painter and Mr. Collins for seven years. 

 

I idolized Peyton as a child and based my life around his actions. He was a top 3 QB of all-time. Luck treated the game like a hobby, like something he was going to drop as soon as he got bored of it. We all fell for it. Hook, line and sinker. Andrew Luck, wasted potential. Peyton was great, maybe the greatest of all time. Luck gave Colts fans reason to hope...you can choose to hate him or be happy that you had that at all. There're maybe 5 teams in the league who knew they were never out of a game, even down 28. It stinks that the guy left, he could have been a giant in the sport but like Ballard said, life goes on. 

 

Peyton > Luck but Luck was pretty damn special and I can't knock the guy for making a decision that was best for his physical and mental wellbeing. Lets hope Rivers can be 75% of what Luck was.

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4 minutes ago, Myles said:

For that reason he will get in.   The NFL consistently puts very good players in the HOF.   I wish they wouldn't, because I'd like to see the HOF for the elite players only.  Manning and Brady.  Rivers was 2nd level or 3rd level most or all of his career.   If teams were able to draft a QB each year, Rivers would be the 5th or 6th one taken.  Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees and some years Wilson, Ryan, Mahomes, Luck, Roethlisberger, Romo, Warner, Favre or McNabb. 

 

He was a very good QB.  

But that's just my opinion.  

Well let's hope Rivers can sway your opinion over the next couple of seasons. :D

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2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Well let's hope Rivers can sway your opinion over the next couple of seasons. :D

I truly hopes he does.    

I know everyone has their own opinion of HOF worthiness.   For some it is SuperBowl wins.   For some it is MVP's.  For some it is longevity stats.  For some it is comparing stats to players already in the HOF.  

For me it is if the player was considered a top 2 or 3 at their position for multiple years.  Can't compare era's as the game changes.  Comparing against common era players is all I really have.  Marino never won a SB, but most fans and experts thought of him as one of the top couple QB's in the league through most of his career.  

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Luck = 1 kid

Rivers = 9 kids

 

We should not be concerned about Rivers retiring before the season.

Given his history, we know it's not his nature to just pull out prematurely.

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Once again if someone's ceiling for Luck was Peyton Manning than yes he underachieved. I never thought he would be as great as Peyton Manning so for the most part his play to me was satisfying. He was 57-37 as a starter on teams that had bad O.lines and no run game his whole career up until 2018. He won 4 playoff games as well and beat Peyton and that defense at Denver in a Divisional Round Game so he has won some big games.He was a leader, just not the leader Peyton was. Trying to compare someone to Peyton isn't fair, Peyton is easily a top 3 QB of all-time. The only thing I didn't like about Luck is how he retired 2 weeks before the season leaving his teammates and fans out to dry. That was a bad look other than that IMO he was a very good QB, great at times. When Luck was at his best which was 2014 and 2018, I would take him over Rivers at his best, Rivers has just had much better longevity and Rivers is very good in his own right. IMO Luck isn't a Hall of Famer as he didn't play long enough but he belongs in the Ring of Honor.

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Once again if someone's ceiling for Luck was Peyton Manning than yes he underachieved. I never thought he would be as great as Peyton Manning so for the most part his play to me was satisfying. He was 57-37 as a starter on teams that had bad O.lines and no run game his whole career up until 2018. He won 4 playoff games as well and beat Peyton and that defense at Denver in a Divisional Round Game so he has won some big games.He was a leader, just not the leader Peyton was. Trying to compare someone to Peyton isn't fair, Peyton is easily a top 3 QB of all-time. The only thing I didn't like about Luck is how he retired 2 weeks before the season leaving his teammates and fans out to dry. That was a bad look other than that IMO he was a very good QB, great at times. When Luck was at his best which was 2014 and 2018, I would take him over Rivers at his best, Rivers has just had much better longevity and Rivers is very good in his own right. IMO Luck isn't a Hall of Famer as he didn't play long enough but he belongs in the Ring of Honor.

To be fair, he was considered to be god-like coming out of college by most of the talking heads. Some called him the best prospect ever. So I don't fault those too much when they compare him to Manning. And to add, we booted Peyton for him lol.

 

But yes, I agree. In general, it's not fair to compare anyone to Peyton.

21 hours ago, rock8591 said:

Luck = 1 kid

Rivers = 9 kids

 

We should not be concerned about Rivers retiring before the season.

Given his history, we know it's not his nature to just pull out prematurely.

Yep, nobody should doubt his stamina either lol

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On 6/22/2020 at 5:48 PM, AustexColt said:

After watching 4-5 2018 games of Rivers and 4-5 games of Luck, I think Rivers has a quicker release and read. Part of this is due to the offensive line and his decision process. Luck holds on to the ball longer because he can. Luck had a better OL and he can take hits and run with the ball.

 

When I look at Frank's overall game plan, I think Rivers is better match.  Short quick passes and gashing runs with his RPO. Rivers can throw downfield and when he does his releases are quicker, however his accuracy is not as good as Luck's.  Rivers definitely makes his receivers fight for the catch. 

That's your opinion. Give Luck and Rivers the same amount of talent on both sides of the ball and Luck will make you regret ever making this post. 

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6 minutes ago, Legend_Coslosky said:

That's your opinion. Give Luck and Rivers the same amount of talent on both sides of the ball and Luck will make you regret ever making this post. 

Luck at his best was better than Rivers at his best, I agree. Problem is we only got see 2 years of greatness of Luck which was 2014 and 2018. Luck's rookie season was pretty special too. Had we had Luck last season I think we would've been in the AFC Title Game. Not sure we would've beat KC but maybe? 

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5 minutes ago, Legend_Coslosky said:

That's your opinion. Give Luck and Rivers the same amount of talent on both sides of the ball and Luck will make you regret ever making this post. 

What does that have to do with anything? Luck does not play anymore so we will never know.

If you have a different opinion that's cool but I guess I think Rivers will do just fine with with Frank's offense. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Legend_Coslosky said:

That's your opinion. Give Luck and Rivers the same amount of talent on both sides of the ball and Luck will make you regret ever making this post. 

 

On 6/22/2020 at 5:48 PM, AustexColt said:

After watching 4-5 2018 games of Rivers and 4-5 games of Luck, I think Rivers has a quicker release and read. Part of this is due to the offensive line and his decision process. Luck holds on to the ball longer because he can. Luck had a better OL and he can take hits and run with the ball.

 

When I look at Frank's overall game plan, I think Rivers is better match.  Short quick passes and gashing runs with his RPO. Rivers can throw downfield and when he does his releases are quicker, however his accuracy is not as good as Luck's.  Rivers definitely makes his receivers fight for the catch

 

Regarding the bolded.

If we compare 2018 stats.

 

Danger plays - Luck #7 vs Rivers #12

Interceptable passes - Luck #3 vs Rivers #10

Money throws - Luck #20 vs Rivers #10

True completion rate - Luck #11 vs Rivers #10

Accuracy rating - Luck #10 vs Rivers #4

 

In short, let's hope we see the 2018 Rivers. If so, he was more accurate, less risky, and threw better balls than Luck.

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